7 ms·
Gcam, the computational photography project that powers the Google Pixel camera
- ktta 10y agoThe surprising part about this is that X decided to go with Medium as their publishing platform.
- reitanqild 10y agoLet me continue: I specifically dislike how medium breaks urls.
- ktta 10y agoDo you mean the .#<alphanumeric-code> at the end?
- will_pseudonym 10y agoI'm surprised Google wouldn't also use their own URL-breaking property, AMP. :)
- reitanqild 10y agoOr their other url-breaking platform - blogger - who found out it was a good idea to redirect to a different top level domain based on visitor location :-/
- daurnimator 10y agoHow does it break them? As far as I can see, the only bit that matters is what appears to be a hash at the end. In this case: 3ee86657d6c9. That is, https://blog.x.company/3ee86657d6c9 https://blog.x.company/3ee86657d6c9 is the same post. I don't know how this is substantially+notably different to how other blog platforms do urls.
- reitanqild 10y agoProblem is everone gets a new url. Haven't foun a good way to check if one link to medium is the same as another. This breaks a number of things like duplicate checking for news aggregators and tag suggestions for bookmarking services. Edit: checking now it seems at keast the part before hash stayed unchanged after copy-pasting into another browser and loading. Have they changed or have I misunderstood the whole time?
- throwanem 10y agoI don't think they've changed; if they have, it wasn't recent. Stripping the hash doesn't break anything that I've noticed - I assume it hoses their "share this story" tracking, but I don't really care about that.
- srtjstjsj 10y agoArticle does not deliver on the headline (of course). It says that X wrote software that became HDR+ , Google's version of HDR.
- PleaseHelpMe 10y agoPlease > Most recently, Gcam’s HDR+ technology launched as the default mode for the critically acclaimed Google Pixel phone. DxOMark, the industry standard for camera ratings, declared that the Pixel camera was “the best smartphone camera ever made” in 2016. Reflecting on the evolution of the project, Marc says, “It took five years to get it really right…and we’re grateful that X gave our team the long-term horizons and independence to make that happen.”
- wingless 10y agoSo this is just good old HDR tone mapping? The article doesn't mention anything that sounds like a breakthrough.
- felixfurtak 10y agoSurely many of these improvements are simply due to the Sony Exmor sensor? HDR processing is only really possible when you have fast (and full resolution) burst mode available on the sensor.
- fulafel 10y agoGiven the relatively long timeframe of the project, we don't know if that was an idea/requirement from the gcam side.
- valine 10y ago> So the team started to ask — what if we looked at this problem in an entirely new way? What if, instead of trying to solve it with better hardware, we could do it with smart software choices instead? I feel like the lofty language takes something away from the article. It's not like using software to improve image quality is anything new. The image stacking technique they describe isn't particularly novel. I've done stuff like that for years. It even works on 3d renderings from a path tracer. Its cool their camera is fast and provides a nice ux when stacking images, but that's only possible because of the cameras hardware.
- lnanek2 10y agoAgreed. I think my last 5 smartphones have all had an HDR mode. Claiming it is something new is a little strange. Even HTC's relatively new technique of recording a couple seconds of continuous video as long as the camera app is open so it can provide an "instant" shutter button is years old at this point and that came out long after HDR in smartphone apps.
- GuiA 10y agoWhat's the resolution of the sensor? Does that mean it can record video at 16MP or something like that? I find that surprising given that all handset makers make a big deal of 4k recording.
- DougBTX 10y agoGuess: video recording produces large amounts of data while recording, so is disk write bound. "Instant capture" requires only a short, fixed duration, recording, so is only memory write bound. An alternative possibility, along the same lines, is that recording durable video is CPU bound due to compression, but a temp cache in RAM is small enough to have minimal compression requirements, so is not CPU bound.
- londons_explore 10y agoCamera HDR modes usually take 10 to 30 frames at full sensor resolution (RAW). That comes out to 16 Mpixels * 12 bits/pixel * 30 = 720Mbytes of RAM. Doable just about for a smartphone. If RAM is a concern, by using custom silicon which can process HDR very quickly, you can start to discard the first frames before the last is taken. The hardware necessary shares a lot of logic with video compression (calculating motion vectors etc.)
- kumarm 10y agoSurprised by Negative Tone of Comments. I have been using PixelXL since launch and every one of my friends who looked at photos are amazed by the camera (Many of iPhone Users). PixelXL made me default photographer at parties (And fact that I can share Photos using Google Photos with everyone at Party). Pixel Camera is amazing compared to any existing SmartPhone camera. Side Note: The only issue I have with Pixel is that its easy to break glass.
- JohnJamesRambo 10y agoThey aren't negative about the Pixel but rather the idea that it was only software wizardry that was the cause of the camera quality improvement.
- HalfwayToDice 10y agoNot difficult to beat the iPhone camera. Why does my iPhone 4S take better photos than my iPhone 7? Modern iPhones photos are smeary smudgy mess. Can always tell on Reddit or Facebook when an image has been taken with an iPhone. Luckily using RAW mode helps, which means it's some lunatic software noise-reduction in newer versions of iOS that is the problem.
- chairmanwow 10y agoI honestly think that you might have a lemon. It has been my experience that iPhone 7 images are among the best in class (I can't comment on the quality of the Pixel's camera, but I've heard good things). I understand your grievance, but honestly it's impossible to posit that an iPhone 4 takes better pictures than an iPhone 7.
- icantdrive55 10y agoMy iPhone 4 takes unbelievable macro pictures. I hate to say this, but better than my Canon 20D, with an L lens. I was thinking about buying a macro lens for Canon, but can't justify the it anymore. Just macro in my world though. The dslr still takes better portraits, and nature shots.
- MikusR 10y ago
- ChuckMcM 10y ago[Heh, the cynic in me is amused when these things come out on the heel of a lot of bad news about Google.] I think computational photography is perhaps the biggest change to picture taking since Ektachrome. Seriously it takes pictures with existing hardware that are better pictures and does it by applying some interesting science to the mechanisms in the pipeline. I've been very impressed with the results and how rapidly the camera comes up with the image after taking it. I wish my Canon SLR had this as part of its software load.
- cromwellian 10y agoWhat's the 'lot of bad news'? I couldn't find anything on HN search recently, except discontinuation of Google talk. Perhaps you confused Google with Uber?
- rmcfeeley 10y agoPerhaps you confused Google/ with Uber/ Perhaps Uber confused/ Google with you You confused Uber/ with Google, perhaps?
- ChuckMcM 10y agoSeveral articles covering advertisers pulling ads from Youtube[1,2,3] because Google runs them next to objectionable content, a 4% drop in Google's share price [4,5] [1] http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/22/15029214/att-verizon-google-youtube-pull-ads-boycott-hate-speech http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/22/15029214/att-verizon-googl... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/17/google-pledges-more-control-for-brands-over-ad-placement https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/17/google-pledges... [3] https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/03/big-us-companies-pull-youtube-ads-after-extremist-content-sparks-uncertainty/ https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/03/big-us-companies-pu... [4] http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/20/google-stock-downgraded-to-hold-on-ad-fears.html http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/20/google-stock-downgraded-to-ho... [5] https://www.recode.net/2017/1/26/14402080/alphabet-google-earnings-q4-2016 https://www.recode.net/2017/1/26/14402080/alphabet-google-ea...
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- iamleppert 10y agoI like how they have taken credit for implementing HDR along with a smartphone-sized burst camera. This is purely a technical implementation and is not novel in almost any way.
- chairmanwow 10y agoI agree that this article was thoroughly disappointing. I went in expecting a lot and received VERY little information.
- tambourine_man 10y agoSorry to hijack the thread but I found your handle a bit disturbing. What do you need help with?
- ars 10y agoHe created his account 231 days ago. Whatever he needed help with presumably is no longer an issue.
- chairmanwow 10y agoIt never hurts to ask. Maybe he's been waiting for this day for 231 days?
- rmcfeeley 10y agoNow I can't sleep. Please Help ... US
- Shengbo 10y agoPicking a handle.
- PleaseHelpMe 10y agoHaha it's just a name I usually use.
- boulos 10y agoSigh. I'm disappointed that this piece seemingly gives no credit to Andrew Adams, Jiawen (Kevin) Chen, and all the folks that made gcam happen. There isn't even a mention of Halide... Edit: just to be clear, I like Marc just fine, but I don't see the point in excluding the team. Disclosure: I work at Google and know the folks involved.
- jpm_sd 10y agoIt's a desperate attempt to make X look good. There haven't been too many successful "graduations".
- Ajedi32 10y agoWhat rate of success would you consider acceptable? I thought the whole point of Google X was basically "let's throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks", so it seems pretty much expected that not a lot of products would make it out of the lab before being killed.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- beambot 10y agoLook through most MegaCorp press pieces, and you'll find that the individual team members rarely get shoutouts. It is disappointing.
- pasbesoin 10y agoOk, since maybe Google people will be looking at this: I have a Nexus 5x. The Google camera app recently, finally, received a revision that fixed some significant bugs, e.g. crashing on "zoom out". It also introduced ISO offset/adjustment. However, the widget to make that adjustment appears only briefly, at the top of the screen, immediately after touching the screen -- to set a metering point or to zoom. This makes that control both difficult to trigger, at the top of the screen, and difficult to use with its small scale and position that leaves one's finger obscuring the readout. On my 5x with a Pleson glass screen protector, the resulting value also tends to jump a bit as my finger is removed (1). Finally, the setting only remains for a matter of seconds, until the app clears any custom (i.e. via touch point) metering setting (2). I like to adjust the ISO offset setting until I get the exposure I'm after on the screen. I wish the control was easier and always available to trigger, easier to use, and that the value set would persist at least until the shot is taken and preferably, or optionally, until it is manually changed back. You finally gave me ISO offset control -- thank you! But the control is difficult to the point where I mostly don't even try to use it. The app update also introduced a widget along the right side that displays an ungradated meter of (digital) zoom level. Beyond seeing the relative zoom setting, this control doesn't really do much that I find useful. (Actually, sometimes I find myself waiting for it to clear so that I can see my composition better.) That widget position on the right side would be the perfect place to optionally display a touchable ISO offset scale. More real estate, making fine adjustments easier. Finger not in the way of seeing both the values and the shot, while adjusting it. If not by default, then maybe something that could be selected in the options? Friends really like my photos from the Nexus 5x. I'd love to have more-better controls when composing them. Thanks. -- 1. My zoom level can similarly jump a bit when I lift my fingers from the screen. I assume this is because of the screen protector, as opposed to the underlying phone/app, and have come to live with it as the price for the screen protection. The jump in ISO offset, maybe because of the small size of its widget as well as its placement, is harder to control. 2. This momentary clearing was already happening before the app update. I like to take my time composing my shot, and this clearing already made doing so somewhat frustrating at times.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ipsum2 10y agoThis blog post is remarkably light on details. For the actual research paper behind the software in the Pixel camera app: http://www.hdrplusdata.org/hdrplus.pdf http://www.hdrplusdata.org/hdrplus.pdf
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- legohead 10y agoHad an interesting/cool moment with my Pixel at the theatre today. There was a line to get your picture taken in front of the show's giant poster. The attendant would take your phone and snap a pic. When the attendant used my phone, she couldn't tell it took a picture -- because when you press the button it's instant. She was so used to other phones taking a second or two before a picture was taken.
- GuiA 10y agoJust tried on my iPhone 7, it's definitely instant. Perhaps that's more of a UI feedback flaw in the Pixel then?
- rmcfeeley 10y agoHow much do you charge per hour for company-saving quips like this?
- ldev 10y agoOriginal comment sounds more like google's shill comment, to be honest. Because iPhones take pictures instantly too (although they have a quick ui feedback), and it's either hard to believe that attendant never touched iPhone, which is, like, well, the most popular phone ever; or it's indeed that pixel doesn't indicate in any way that it has taken the picture.
- rmcfeeley 10y agosorry. i should have added an /s at the end of my comment
- mihaifm 10y ago> One direction that we’re pushing is machine learning Is machine learning the answer to everything these days? Is it over-hyped...or should I start worrying that I don't know anything about it (as a developer I mean).
- Dibes 10y agoI don't think it is the answer to everything, but it can be very broadly applied to a whole lot of scenarios and get pretty good results for the most part. I don't think you should worry, however you should take a look at it because it is pretty cool!
- GuiA 10y agoA lot of the modern algorithms we write have to do with pattern matching (eg patterns in numerical data, pixels, etc). Machine learning is basically a meta technique for pattern matching. It should probably be in your toolbelt, even if it's not your main field of expertise.
- coziestSoup 10y agoThe limits of ML (as we know it) is still not fully known, so it's worth throwing a wide range of problems at it to see what sticks. I think that's why you see talk of ML everywhere, because people are still feeling out the space, seeing how far ML can go. Eventually, the dust will settle and the next big thing will come along.
- Eridrus 10y agoML is delivering a lot of value, but is largely being applied to high value areas since the start-up costs of adding ML to anything are pretty high compared to traditional dev work. So it's not going to replace traditional dev work any time soon, but it's certainly going to be important.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- rmcfeeley 10y agoWHO WROTE THIS? -- CATHOLIC
- dang 10y agoWe've banned this account for breaking the HN guidelines. If you decide you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and promise to follow the rules in the future.
- avip 10y agoLots of PR-ish tone here. Image fusion is pretty standard in video cameras, it's part of the imaging pipeline. The IP on that dates back 15-20 years.
- overlordstark 10y agoMicrosoft Pix is already accomplishing some of that machine learning magic you keep hearing about: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/product/microsoftpix/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/product/microsoftpi...
- Ajedi32 10y agoSo it's just the same HDR+ they've been using in Nexus devices for a long time now? They didn't do anything special with the Pixel's camera, specifically?
- Mindless2112 10y agoMarc Levoy (who the article is about) gave a lecture series [1] at Google about digital photography. [1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7ddpXYvFXspUN0N-gObF1GXoCA-DA-7i https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7ddpXYvFXspUN0N-gObF...
- dharma1 10y agoIt's a step in the right direction for mobile photography but not really revolutionary. Exposure fusion and pixel alignment has been around for a long time. Would like to see more options for tonemapping (really like ACR's highlight/shadow recovery), higher dynamic range sensors and most of all 10bit or raw video on mobile phones. Halide is great btw
- jakobegger 10y agoThere's a lot of pressure on smartphone makers to make really good image processing software because they are extremely restricted hardware wise -- there's just no space for a proper lens and a big chip. And it's amazing how far they've gotten in the past few years. Phones are now better cameras than most point-and-shoots. I wonder if there's any chance that some of that amazing software makes it's ways to pro cameras? It seems that camera companies can't keep up. For example, the autofocus and whitebalance on my phone is almost always spot-on and perfect. My 'real' camera (a Fujifilm X100T) often gets the focus wrong, and the automatic white-balance is not as reliable. It seems like camera makers just can't keep up on the software side.