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Uber is charging passengers a $10 cancellation fee even when the driver cancels

190 points by ap46 10y ago

vmateixeira 10y ago
a lot of corporate accounts would simply get milked by this dodgy functionality Seems like they're trying everything they can..
ryanbrunner 10y ago
The comments point out a perfectly reasonable explanation for why this charge might exist: One reason that drivers can specify for a cancellation is that the rider wasn't at the pickup location. Even though it's the driver cancelling in this case, it's reasonable for Uber to charge the rider in my opinion. If this is the case, the poster is still being improperly charged the fee, but it's more about the driver lying about a cancellation reason than some plot on Uber's part.
- saalweachter 10y ago
  Yeah, it sounds like Uber is basically favoring the driver by default in cancellation. Which is ironic when you consider that we are usually hearing stories about Uber screwing their drivers. I'm curious how often in these cases was it actually user error [standing in the wrong spot] vs system error [GPS reporting a wrong location] vs driver error [driver navigated to wrong location, assumed user had walked away] vs driver malice [intentionally cancelling with no intent of pickup]. Most of the users getting canceled on assume the last, but I'd hope that either this sort of driver malice is rare or Uber has some sort of "driver fraud detection" algorithm.
  - gcr 10y ago
    How is this ironic? It's totally possible to repress and hurt drivers while still giving them the option of cancelling. I know you're not saying this, but it doesn't make sense to cite this as evidence that "Uber really is treating their drivers well! Look look, they get to push a button that cancels the trip! Wouldn't that make you feel empowered if you were a driver??"
- parthdesai 10y ago
  >One reason that drivers can specify for a cancellation is that the rider wasn't at the pickup location I mean it's not that hard to check the location of rider when driver cancels the trip. If he isn't at the specified pick-up location, charge the rider or else charge the driver.
  - sulam 10y ago
    You have a really high belief in the ability of GPS to get things right. And probably of humans to work together when things aren't. If you ask to be picked up at MacArthur BART station in Oakland and you're not careful, your driver will get routed to pick you up in the middle of the freeway that happens to run overhead. Some locations are also GPS distorting due to tall buildings and you'll literally show up 1-2 blocks away from your location (long blocks in SF's case). GPS is great, but it's not perfect.
    - parthdesai 10y ago
      But doesn't uber want to track you more to make sure you are picked on the correct and dropped on the correct side of road. Look i'm not saying GPS is perfect, but having these checks might help prevent 10% of fraudulent cancellations.
- friendzis 10y ago
  Ride cancellation messages can easily have location attached and Uber can check if the cancellation location more or less matches requested arrival location. If they do not even send location - it's negligence. If they do send the location, but do not check it and still charge rider - it's malice. They have the tools. Conspiracy theory: maybe showing that they actually have the tools could be unfavourable to them when/if the regulations are placed?
- scurvy 10y ago
  Uber's GPS and navigation data is such trash that this is halfway believable excuse. As a destination, Uber thinks I live halfway down the block on another street. It's not a convenience thing either. It's down a hill. It's flat out wrong. Lyft doesn't have this problem. I have a friend who works at Uber on Second, and he says the same things happens to Uber at their own office. It sends the drivers to the wrong alley. Conclusion? Bad data and drivers who don't know where they are actually going equals a bad experience.
- draw_down 10y ago
  Makes sense, these apps are insanely bad at setting the pickup spot where you actually are. Free $10 for them, so why fix it. Whee.
henvic 10y ago
Once I asked for a Uber driver on my corporate account during a business trip and the driver cancelled on me. I asked for the cancellation fee back and got $5 on my account. Wait, what? Weren't my business supposed to get the $5 fee back? I am just an employee there and even if I was the point of contact or the owner, it's not how things should work. I just earned $5 (that was probably charged) for being cancelled on and I most likely used it on a private trip later on. I bet the contracts they have for corporate accounts make it clear (or else companies would be mad at them already) so it's not my problem, but it's weird nonetheless.
- galdosdi 10y ago
  > I bet the contracts they have for corporate accounts make it clear (or else companies would be mad at them already) so it's not my problem, but it's weird nonetheless. I wouldn't be so sure. They may just not have noticed / not care that much. If it had happened to me, at my current employer, I would definitely have at least reported it to my finance dept. (This is somewhat employer specific though -- my employer has a convenient system already in place for what happens if you accidentally charge a personal purchase to a corporate card, and has a noticeable general culture of being careful and scrupulous and "doing the right thing"; at an employer lacking that, I'd probably just ignore it as you did, figuring I'd be more of a bother by even bringing it up)
bluetidepro 10y ago
> "Whats more is that they don't refund the money they took unlawfully - instead they credit it to your Uber account." I think that's the part that seems the most messed up. However, I will say that in the USA (Chicago) I've had this happen before (it's only a $5 charge, not $10) and when I disputed it, I got a credit back to my credit card and not an Uber credit like they mentioned. I wonder if it's different in Australia (assuming this is where it happened because r/australia)? EDIT: As others have mentioned both here and on reddit, I am chalking this up to the drivers trying to scam riders, and not Uber directly doing it out of malice. I've had the same issue before when a driver tries to call me and tell me to cancel the ride for X reason that is their fault, that way they don't get the fee/penalty, but I'm not stupid. I know what they are trying to do. ha As someone else here said, this just bad design that is a lose-lose for either side, driver or rider, depending how it's done. All in all, I think Uber will always make this right if you just dispute it, and contact their support. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- dabber 10y ago
  I've canceled rides in several cities around the north east US, usually because the driver is taking too long/lost. Every time, Uber's policy was to charge me $5 if I cancelled 2 min after requesting. When I did dispute the charge, the process was the same as OP on reddit (including an account credit over a refund.) I wonder why there's a difference in how the money is reimbursed.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    > the driver is taking too long/lost > Uber's policy was to charge me $5 if I cancelled 2 min after requesting To be clear, you waited less than 2 min for a driver before cancelling? Or the charge only applies after 2 min?
    - dabber 10y ago
      Ah, you're right I wasn't clear (it was early.) What I meant was, it's Uber's policy to charge a fee if a ride is canceled some amount of time after the driver accepts you as their fare. I think the grace period before the fee is about 2 min though I may be wrong. This my experience in New York and Boston. I've never canceled a ride before waiting 5+ minutes and two of the three times I am referring to the driver drove past me twice.
superasn 10y ago
I think it is one of those cases where this applies: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. I think it may be a loophole or bad system design rather than a willful scam by uber to make some extra money.
- giarc 10y ago
  That may have been the case 4 years ago, but Uber is a fairly seasoned company with many iterations of their app. I don't think it's safe to jump to "uber is scamming us" but this is definitely something that was done on purpose.
  - sushid 10y ago
    Look, I have no skin in the game but Uber doesn't charge for cancelled rides if the driver honestly cancels it. It looks like the driver in OP's link marked the passenger as 'not arrived when at pickup,' which defaulted to the app charging the OP. I had someone cancel on me this morning. It shows up as cancelled and as a $0.00 ride on my ride history.
Grue3 10y ago
It's just driver being an ass or an idiot. Pretty sure the driver has an option to cancel without charging you and the one that does. I had experienced both. The first driver said his GPS isn't working and told me to cancel, which I refused because then I would be charged (also happened to me before). He cancelled, and I was still charged. I got a refund later (via customer service). The second time the driver was 10 minutes away and he called me and suggested me to cancel and get another ride. I refused because I assumed the app chose the closest driver to me. After a while he cancelled and I wasn't charged.
CPLX 10y ago
There's a lot of reasons to hate Uber these days but I'm not sure this is one of them. The problem with cancellations is real, I have to cancel rides constantly because I live and work in Brooklyn Heights/ DUMBO and the app just can't seem to get the hang of the river, the bridges, and the expressway that runs through our neighborhood. It's pretty much routine to get assigned a car and then watch as it speeds over your head rapidly towards Manhattan, or get assigned a car already on Wall Street, which is about 1000 yards away on the map on the other side of the East River. It's super annoying, but if you get hit with the cancellation fee you can just go into the app and do it and it's always simple and instantaneous. Calling it a scam seems a little extreme.
- ascagnel_ 10y ago
  I'm in a similar situation -- I live close enough to Staten Island that I get assigned drivers from there, but the actual route for the driver to get to me would be much, much longer than one already across the Kill.
- galdosdi 10y ago
  WOW, are you serious? After all these huge amounts of venture capital, Uber still uses bird's distance rather than (easily obtainable) estimated travel time in all areas? What a joke.
  - CPLX 10y ago
    I mean I'll give them some credit that their algorithms are at least trying to be aware of the route rather than as-the-crow-flies distance of course, but they seem to have trouble handling New York's bridges and tunnels.
employee8000 10y ago
It's not a scam. Iirc when the driver cancels they have the option of not charging the customer, or charging the customer. It was the driver who decided to charge the customer. But when the driver cancels the ride it affects their metrics so they can't do it all the time. I imagine if they keep charging customers they will get kicked off the platform.
- fnl 10y ago
  That's true; But Uber certainly should send the customer a mail to inform him he was charged by the driver $10 for not taking the ride, I think?
elahd 10y ago
I've been in standoffs with Uber/Lyft drivers where the driver calls or texts me saying they don't want to pick me up for whatever reason and demand that I cancel the hail. Drivers don't want to be the ones who cancel because canceling reduces their rating. I don't want to cancel because I both don't want the hit to my rating and I don't want to have to follow up with Uber/Lyft to request a cancellation fee refund. Last year, I filed a complaint with the NYC Taxi & Limousine Commission against both Lyft and an individual driver after the driver refused to pick me up in the middle of Manhattan but refused to actually cancel the ride. I eventually gave in and canceled the request. Lyft refused to refund the cancellation fee. I ended up getting a chargeback from my credit card company. I submitted the driver's text messages to the T&LC as evidence and eventually got a phone hearing -- Lyft and the driver were required to appear in person. Lyft failed to appear and got a $1,000 fine. The driver showed up but was found not responsible for lack of evidence. It was a complete waste of time. We'll be stuck with this until regulators realize that there's a pattern of abuse and start cracking down.
- chii 10y ago
  This is what happens when things are unregulated. But oh, regulation causes high fees/cost, and so it's ok to ignore! Until of course, when it isn't.
  - twoodfin 10y ago
    Isn't the point of elahd's story that Uber/Lyft drivers are already regulated (particularly) extensively in NYC, but that the regulations (at least in that instance) are ineffective?
    - qeternity 10y ago
      Yeah, exactly. Parent comment is just someone who wants to believe that regulation is inherently good and productive.
      - elahd 10y ago
tuddman 10y ago
cancel cancellation fees. problem solved.
thriftwy 10y ago
I think that decision to withhold the destination of the ride from drivers was a very bad idea they should repeal. They wanted to be sure that drivers don't choose convenient riders and leave less convenient ones unserved, but a) it didn't work, only introduced this "you cancel, no, you" game after destination becomes apparent, and b) opportunistic drivers can no longer give a ride to people who go in the same direction, because they can't tell; limiting driver base to semi-professionals who have nothing else to do.
- galdosdi 10y ago
  In order to do that, they'd have to increase the price for rides to less attractive (to drivers) destinations. A trip that ends somewhere unlikely to have another customer available (like an outlying residential area in the evening) is way less attractive than an identical time/distance trip to somewhere with lots of likely fares (a central business district, for example) So, if drivers can see the destinations, they will simply avoid ever picking up jobs for "bad" destinations, unless properly incentivized. Customers going to "unpopular" destinations are essentially being subsidized at the expense of drivers and customers going to "popular" destinations. If you remove the destination blinding AND don't bother to increase the price for "unpopular" destinations, people trying to go to "unpopular" destinations will find they can never get a car, even worse than now Anyway, I agree they shouldn't be distorting the price market like that, it just creates frustrations for both sides
  - thriftwy 10y ago
    This assumes that rides outnumber drivers so that drivers can be picky. In practice tho, it should be the other way around: drivers should be choosing between a paid ride to "bad" destination, and no ride for some time while they're waiting. You can trivially teach the algorith to give better rides to less choosy drivers first. Second, if you still have amateur drivers on your platform who do ad-hoc carpooling, chances that they're looking for an one-way drive to the same "bad" destination because they have further non-cab business there. You can teach the algorithm to offer a selection of rides to such drivers for their first ride in a few hours. Or even let them to specify where they want to go. Maybe it's already implemented by someone? And yes - Uber price is always unpredictable for a rider, so why not just factor in destination desirability into it?
tuddman 10y ago
cancel cancellation fees. problem solved.
leephillips 10y ago
What's wrong with taxis? I've taken plenty of cabs, but never an Uber or Lyft. In a city you can easily flag them down, or find a number and phone for one. Many cab companies have had phone apps for years, too. If you prefer Uber, can you explain why? Because there are tons of complaints here about the company.
- danpalmer 10y ago
  Speaking for London, the only taxis that you can hail are "black cabs" which are very heavily regulated (and generally high quality), but 2-3x the price of an uberX. You can book a taxi from a local taxi company, but that's typically over the phone, and ideally needs to be done in advance, they are often ~1.5x the price of an uberX.
  - DrScump 10y ago
    (and generally high quality) To be licensed, cabbies must master a comprehensive London geography/traffic test, the knowledge required to pass it is literally known as "The Knowledge"[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom#The_Knowledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom...
- endisukaj 10y ago
  Uber is sometimes cheaper and Uber drivers have an incentive to provide a better service because if they don't their rating goes down. Taxi drivers don't care because they don't have a rating and will be rude, overcharge or take longer routes than needed to make you pay more.
  - kbart 10y ago
    That totally depends on location. In my city, price of Uber and taxi is pretty much equal or some taxi operators are even cheaper. Furthermore, there's a centralized taxi app that connects most of operators and you can also rate driver after your journey is completed.
Overtonwindow 10y ago
I've finally deleted Uber and it's primarily because of the tipping issue. I've had almost universal good service around the world with Uber drivers, but the tipping thing is getting aggressive, and subtle hints are rapidly become overt demands. Uber was great when it started but government corruption and meddling, combined with Uber's greed, and the corrupt taxi industry fighting it, is killing the service. Small improvements could go a long way: Add tipping in the app; ban cash tips. Require drivers to rate passengers BEFORE they get those tips. No cancellation fee for anyone if cancelled within 10 minutes. After ten minutes whomever cancels, pays, period. Uber knows when it's inconvenient for someone to pick someone up due to traffic. The data is there. Require background checks on all drivers. Why is this even an issue? Uber should pay for it. Increase the amount drivers get. Seriously it's ridiculous how little drivers make.
- kwhitefoot 10y ago
  Why should you tip anyone? You are buying a service for an agreed price, why should the price go up when you get to the point where you pay?
  - prostoalex 10y ago
    Uber's complete refusal to integrate tipping into the app led to various perverse incentives, mainly drivers blackmailing riders for a tip or else their rating will suffer https://hbr.org/2016/05/ubers-new-tipping-policy-is-a-mistake https://hbr.org/2016/05/ubers-new-tipping-policy-is-a-mistak...
    - Overtonwindow 10y ago
      Wow! Time to give Lyft a try. Thanks!
  - Overtonwindow 10y ago
    Oh I agree, I loath tipping, but drivers want it so I see tipping in app post-ride as a middle ground.
joshstrange 10y ago
It's been awhile since I've used either Lyft or Uber since I moved downtown and can walk everywhere but I distinctly remember an incident when I requested a Lyft and it said it was 10minutes out. 15 minutes later it was still 10 minutes out and the driver called and said they were on their way (I assume they were just sitting in their house in "Driving" mode and took that long to get moving) but it was going to take them almost 20 minutes to get to me and if that was unacceptable I should cancel. I canceled the ride and got a different driver. Lyft charged me $5 for the cancel but I was able to dispute the charge successfully. Overall it was a huge PITA and I felt/feel like Lyft should do more to prevent people from taking so long after accepting a rider to actually get moving.
Taylor_OD 10y ago
I've had this happen a number of times but I always go in and report a issue with the ride and click my driver canceled and they credit my account with $5 right away. They don't even look into it they give it to me right away. It's not ideal but I think its their way of dealing with this easily.
sjg007 10y ago
Why does the driver accept the fare in the first place?
emmanuel_1234 10y ago
Happens ALL THE TIME in Hong Kong. The worst case so far, I've had a driver call me as soon as I submitted the pick up request, hung up the phone immediately as I mentioned where I was going, then stayed without moving for the next 90 minutes, without cancelling (I took a cab long before that). Similar, though less intense experience happened to me on about 20% of the rides, every time I have to go through the claim process to (automatically) get my money back. Infuriating, I really wish there was viable alternative to Uber in HK, but taxi drivers are a lot worse (disgusting, rude, very frequently refuse a hire...).

190 points by ap46 10y ago

a lot of corporate accounts would simply get milked by this dodgy functionality Seems like they're trying everything they can..

ryanbrunner 10y ago

The comments point out a perfectly reasonable explanation for why this charge might exist: One reason that drivers can specify for a cancellation is that the rider wasn't at the pickup location. Even though it's the driver cancelling in this case, it's reasonable for Uber to charge the rider in my opinion. If this is the case, the poster is still being improperly charged the fee, but it's more about the driver lying about a cancellation reason than some plot on Uber's part.

saalweachter 10y ago
Yeah, it sounds like Uber is basically favoring the driver by default in cancellation. Which is ironic when you consider that we are usually hearing stories about Uber screwing their drivers. I'm curious how often in these cases was it actually user error [standing in the wrong spot] vs system error [GPS reporting a wrong location] vs driver error [driver navigated to wrong location, assumed user had walked away] vs driver malice [intentionally cancelling with no intent of pickup]. Most of the users getting canceled on assume the last, but I'd hope that either this sort of driver malice is rare or Uber has some sort of "driver fraud detection" algorithm.
- gcr 10y ago
  How is this ironic? It's totally possible to repress and hurt drivers while still giving them the option of cancelling. I know you're not saying this, but it doesn't make sense to cite this as evidence that "Uber really is treating their drivers well! Look look, they get to push a button that cancels the trip! Wouldn't that make you feel empowered if you were a driver??"
parthdesai 10y ago
>One reason that drivers can specify for a cancellation is that the rider wasn't at the pickup location I mean it's not that hard to check the location of rider when driver cancels the trip. If he isn't at the specified pick-up location, charge the rider or else charge the driver.
- sulam 10y ago
  You have a really high belief in the ability of GPS to get things right. And probably of humans to work together when things aren't. If you ask to be picked up at MacArthur BART station in Oakland and you're not careful, your driver will get routed to pick you up in the middle of the freeway that happens to run overhead. Some locations are also GPS distorting due to tall buildings and you'll literally show up 1-2 blocks away from your location (long blocks in SF's case). GPS is great, but it's not perfect.
  - parthdesai 10y ago
    But doesn't uber want to track you more to make sure you are picked on the correct and dropped on the correct side of road. Look i'm not saying GPS is perfect, but having these checks might help prevent 10% of fraudulent cancellations.
friendzis 10y ago
Ride cancellation messages can easily have location attached and Uber can check if the cancellation location more or less matches requested arrival location. If they do not even send location - it's negligence. If they do send the location, but do not check it and still charge rider - it's malice. They have the tools. Conspiracy theory: maybe showing that they actually have the tools could be unfavourable to them when/if the regulations are placed?
scurvy 10y ago
Uber's GPS and navigation data is such trash that this is halfway believable excuse. As a destination, Uber thinks I live halfway down the block on another street. It's not a convenience thing either. It's down a hill. It's flat out wrong. Lyft doesn't have this problem. I have a friend who works at Uber on Second, and he says the same things happens to Uber at their own office. It sends the drivers to the wrong alley. Conclusion? Bad data and drivers who don't know where they are actually going equals a bad experience.
draw_down 10y ago
Makes sense, these apps are insanely bad at setting the pickup spot where you actually are. Free $10 for them, so why fix it. Whee.

henvic 10y ago

Once I asked for a Uber driver on my corporate account during a business trip and the driver cancelled on me. I asked for the cancellation fee back and got $5 on my account. Wait, what? Weren't my business supposed to get the $5 fee back? I am just an employee there and even if I was the point of contact or the owner, it's not how things should work. I just earned $5 (that was probably charged) for being cancelled on and I most likely used it on a private trip later on. I bet the contracts they have for corporate accounts make it clear (or else companies would be mad at them already) so it's not my problem, but it's weird nonetheless.

galdosdi 10y ago
> I bet the contracts they have for corporate accounts make it clear (or else companies would be mad at them already) so it's not my problem, but it's weird nonetheless. I wouldn't be so sure. They may just not have noticed / not care that much. If it had happened to me, at my current employer, I would definitely have at least reported it to my finance dept. (This is somewhat employer specific though -- my employer has a convenient system already in place for what happens if you accidentally charge a personal purchase to a corporate card, and has a noticeable general culture of being careful and scrupulous and "doing the right thing"; at an employer lacking that, I'd probably just ignore it as you did, figuring I'd be more of a bother by even bringing it up)

bluetidepro 10y ago

> "Whats more is that they don't refund the money they took unlawfully - instead they credit it to your Uber account." I think that's the part that seems the most messed up. However, I will say that in the USA (Chicago) I've had this happen before (it's only a $5 charge, not $10) and when I disputed it, I got a credit back to my credit card and not an Uber credit like they mentioned. I wonder if it's different in Australia (assuming this is where it happened because r/australia)? EDIT: As others have mentioned both here and on reddit, I am chalking this up to the drivers trying to scam riders, and not Uber directly doing it out of malice. I've had the same issue before when a driver tries to call me and tell me to cancel the ride for X reason that is their fault, that way they don't get the fee/penalty, but I'm not stupid. I know what they are trying to do. ha As someone else here said, this just bad design that is a lose-lose for either side, driver or rider, depending how it's done. All in all, I think Uber will always make this right if you just dispute it, and contact their support. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

dabber 10y ago
I've canceled rides in several cities around the north east US, usually because the driver is taking too long/lost. Every time, Uber's policy was to charge me $5 if I cancelled 2 min after requesting. When I did dispute the charge, the process was the same as OP on reddit (including an account credit over a refund.) I wonder why there's a difference in how the money is reimbursed.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  > the driver is taking too long/lost > Uber's policy was to charge me $5 if I cancelled 2 min after requesting To be clear, you waited less than 2 min for a driver before cancelling? Or the charge only applies after 2 min?
  - dabber 10y ago
    Ah, you're right I wasn't clear (it was early.) What I meant was, it's Uber's policy to charge a fee if a ride is canceled some amount of time after the driver accepts you as their fare. I think the grace period before the fee is about 2 min though I may be wrong. This my experience in New York and Boston. I've never canceled a ride before waiting 5+ minutes and two of the three times I am referring to the driver drove past me twice.

superasn 10y ago

I think it is one of those cases where this applies: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. I think it may be a loophole or bad system design rather than a willful scam by uber to make some extra money.

giarc 10y ago
That may have been the case 4 years ago, but Uber is a fairly seasoned company with many iterations of their app. I don't think it's safe to jump to "uber is scamming us" but this is definitely something that was done on purpose.
- sushid 10y ago
  Look, I have no skin in the game but Uber doesn't charge for cancelled rides if the driver honestly cancels it. It looks like the driver in OP's link marked the passenger as 'not arrived when at pickup,' which defaulted to the app charging the OP. I had someone cancel on me this morning. It shows up as cancelled and as a $0.00 ride on my ride history.

Grue3 10y ago

It's just driver being an ass or an idiot. Pretty sure the driver has an option to cancel without charging you and the one that does. I had experienced both. The first driver said his GPS isn't working and told me to cancel, which I refused because then I would be charged (also happened to me before). He cancelled, and I was still charged. I got a refund later (via customer service). The second time the driver was 10 minutes away and he called me and suggested me to cancel and get another ride. I refused because I assumed the app chose the closest driver to me. After a while he cancelled and I wasn't charged.

CPLX 10y ago

There's a lot of reasons to hate Uber these days but I'm not sure this is one of them. The problem with cancellations is real, I have to cancel rides constantly because I live and work in Brooklyn Heights/ DUMBO and the app just can't seem to get the hang of the river, the bridges, and the expressway that runs through our neighborhood. It's pretty much routine to get assigned a car and then watch as it speeds over your head rapidly towards Manhattan, or get assigned a car already on Wall Street, which is about 1000 yards away on the map on the other side of the East River. It's super annoying, but if you get hit with the cancellation fee you can just go into the app and do it and it's always simple and instantaneous. Calling it a scam seems a little extreme.

ascagnel_ 10y ago
I'm in a similar situation -- I live close enough to Staten Island that I get assigned drivers from there, but the actual route for the driver to get to me would be much, much longer than one already across the Kill.
galdosdi 10y ago
WOW, are you serious? After all these huge amounts of venture capital, Uber still uses bird's distance rather than (easily obtainable) estimated travel time in all areas? What a joke.
- CPLX 10y ago
  I mean I'll give them some credit that their algorithms are at least trying to be aware of the route rather than as-the-crow-flies distance of course, but they seem to have trouble handling New York's bridges and tunnels.

employee8000 10y ago

It's not a scam. Iirc when the driver cancels they have the option of not charging the customer, or charging the customer. It was the driver who decided to charge the customer. But when the driver cancels the ride it affects their metrics so they can't do it all the time. I imagine if they keep charging customers they will get kicked off the platform.

fnl 10y ago
That's true; But Uber certainly should send the customer a mail to inform him he was charged by the driver $10 for not taking the ride, I think?

elahd 10y ago

I've been in standoffs with Uber/Lyft drivers where the driver calls or texts me saying they don't want to pick me up for whatever reason and demand that I cancel the hail. Drivers don't want to be the ones who cancel because canceling reduces their rating. I don't want to cancel because I both don't want the hit to my rating and I don't want to have to follow up with Uber/Lyft to request a cancellation fee refund. Last year, I filed a complaint with the NYC Taxi & Limousine Commission against both Lyft and an individual driver after the driver refused to pick me up in the middle of Manhattan but refused to actually cancel the ride. I eventually gave in and canceled the request. Lyft refused to refund the cancellation fee. I ended up getting a chargeback from my credit card company. I submitted the driver's text messages to the T&LC as evidence and eventually got a phone hearing -- Lyft and the driver were required to appear in person. Lyft failed to appear and got a $1,000 fine. The driver showed up but was found not responsible for lack of evidence. It was a complete waste of time. We'll be stuck with this until regulators realize that there's a pattern of abuse and start cracking down.

chii 10y ago
This is what happens when things are unregulated. But oh, regulation causes high fees/cost, and so it's ok to ignore! Until of course, when it isn't.
- twoodfin 10y ago
  Isn't the point of elahd's story that Uber/Lyft drivers are already regulated (particularly) extensively in NYC, but that the regulations (at least in that instance) are ineffective?
  - qeternity 10y ago
    Yeah, exactly. Parent comment is just someone who wants to believe that regulation is inherently good and productive.
    - elahd 10y ago

tuddman 10y ago

cancel cancellation fees. problem solved.

thriftwy 10y ago

I think that decision to withhold the destination of the ride from drivers was a very bad idea they should repeal. They wanted to be sure that drivers don't choose convenient riders and leave less convenient ones unserved, but a) it didn't work, only introduced this "you cancel, no, you" game after destination becomes apparent, and b) opportunistic drivers can no longer give a ride to people who go in the same direction, because they can't tell; limiting driver base to semi-professionals who have nothing else to do.

galdosdi 10y ago
In order to do that, they'd have to increase the price for rides to less attractive (to drivers) destinations. A trip that ends somewhere unlikely to have another customer available (like an outlying residential area in the evening) is way less attractive than an identical time/distance trip to somewhere with lots of likely fares (a central business district, for example) So, if drivers can see the destinations, they will simply avoid ever picking up jobs for "bad" destinations, unless properly incentivized. Customers going to "unpopular" destinations are essentially being subsidized at the expense of drivers and customers going to "popular" destinations. If you remove the destination blinding AND don't bother to increase the price for "unpopular" destinations, people trying to go to "unpopular" destinations will find they can never get a car, even worse than now Anyway, I agree they shouldn't be distorting the price market like that, it just creates frustrations for both sides
- thriftwy 10y ago
  This assumes that rides outnumber drivers so that drivers can be picky. In practice tho, it should be the other way around: drivers should be choosing between a paid ride to "bad" destination, and no ride for some time while they're waiting. You can trivially teach the algorith to give better rides to less choosy drivers first. Second, if you still have amateur drivers on your platform who do ad-hoc carpooling, chances that they're looking for an one-way drive to the same "bad" destination because they have further non-cab business there. You can teach the algorithm to offer a selection of rides to such drivers for their first ride in a few hours. Or even let them to specify where they want to go. Maybe it's already implemented by someone? And yes - Uber price is always unpredictable for a rider, so why not just factor in destination desirability into it?

tuddman 10y ago

cancel cancellation fees. problem solved.

leephillips 10y ago

What's wrong with taxis? I've taken plenty of cabs, but never an Uber or Lyft. In a city you can easily flag them down, or find a number and phone for one. Many cab companies have had phone apps for years, too. If you prefer Uber, can you explain why? Because there are tons of complaints here about the company.

danpalmer 10y ago
Speaking for London, the only taxis that you can hail are "black cabs" which are very heavily regulated (and generally high quality), but 2-3x the price of an uberX. You can book a taxi from a local taxi company, but that's typically over the phone, and ideally needs to be done in advance, they are often ~1.5x the price of an uberX.
- DrScump 10y ago
  (and generally high quality) To be licensed, cabbies must master a comprehensive London geography/traffic test, the knowledge required to pass it is literally known as "The Knowledge"[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom#The_Knowledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_the_United_Kingdom...
endisukaj 10y ago
Uber is sometimes cheaper and Uber drivers have an incentive to provide a better service because if they don't their rating goes down. Taxi drivers don't care because they don't have a rating and will be rude, overcharge or take longer routes than needed to make you pay more.
- kbart 10y ago
  That totally depends on location. In my city, price of Uber and taxi is pretty much equal or some taxi operators are even cheaper. Furthermore, there's a centralized taxi app that connects most of operators and you can also rate driver after your journey is completed.

Overtonwindow 10y ago

I've finally deleted Uber and it's primarily because of the tipping issue. I've had almost universal good service around the world with Uber drivers, but the tipping thing is getting aggressive, and subtle hints are rapidly become overt demands. Uber was great when it started but government corruption and meddling, combined with Uber's greed, and the corrupt taxi industry fighting it, is killing the service. Small improvements could go a long way: Add tipping in the app; ban cash tips. Require drivers to rate passengers BEFORE they get those tips. No cancellation fee for anyone if cancelled within 10 minutes. After ten minutes whomever cancels, pays, period. Uber knows when it's inconvenient for someone to pick someone up due to traffic. The data is there. Require background checks on all drivers. Why is this even an issue? Uber should pay for it. Increase the amount drivers get. Seriously it's ridiculous how little drivers make.

kwhitefoot 10y ago
Why should you tip anyone? You are buying a service for an agreed price, why should the price go up when you get to the point where you pay?
- prostoalex 10y ago
  Uber's complete refusal to integrate tipping into the app led to various perverse incentives, mainly drivers blackmailing riders for a tip or else their rating will suffer https://hbr.org/2016/05/ubers-new-tipping-policy-is-a-mistake https://hbr.org/2016/05/ubers-new-tipping-policy-is-a-mistak...
  - Overtonwindow 10y ago
    Wow! Time to give Lyft a try. Thanks!
- Overtonwindow 10y ago
  Oh I agree, I loath tipping, but drivers want it so I see tipping in app post-ride as a middle ground.

joshstrange 10y ago

It's been awhile since I've used either Lyft or Uber since I moved downtown and can walk everywhere but I distinctly remember an incident when I requested a Lyft and it said it was 10minutes out. 15 minutes later it was still 10 minutes out and the driver called and said they were on their way (I assume they were just sitting in their house in "Driving" mode and took that long to get moving) but it was going to take them almost 20 minutes to get to me and if that was unacceptable I should cancel. I canceled the ride and got a different driver. Lyft charged me $5 for the cancel but I was able to dispute the charge successfully. Overall it was a huge PITA and I felt/feel like Lyft should do more to prevent people from taking so long after accepting a rider to actually get moving.

Taylor_OD 10y ago

I've had this happen a number of times but I always go in and report a issue with the ride and click my driver canceled and they credit my account with $5 right away. They don't even look into it they give it to me right away. It's not ideal but I think its their way of dealing with this easily.

sjg007 10y ago

Why does the driver accept the fare in the first place?

emmanuel_1234 10y ago

Happens ALL THE TIME in Hong Kong. The worst case so far, I've had a driver call me as soon as I submitted the pick up request, hung up the phone immediately as I mentioned where I was going, then stayed without moving for the next 90 minutes, without cancelling (I took a cab long before that). Similar, though less intense experience happened to me on about 20% of the rides, every time I have to go through the claim process to (automatically) get my money back. Infuriating, I really wish there was viable alternative to Uber in HK, but taxi drivers are a lot worse (disgusting, rude, very frequently refuse a hire...).