20 ms·

No Tipping is one of the main reasons I liked Uber; no cash, no pressure, you just get out of the car and walk away with everyone happy. I would rather pay more

by redm 10y ago

No Tipping is one of the main reasons I liked Uber; no cash, no pressure, you just get out of the car and walk away with everyone happy. I would rather pay more for each fare and have Uber aggressively prohibit tipping. I suspect many people feel the same way and if Uber doesn't get it under control, it could be the biggest challenge they face.

hyperbovine 10y ago
After I switched to Lyft in the wake of the Susan Fowler thing, I discovered that they give you the option to tip. It made me realize that the pain point of tipping is actually feeling pressured to tip the moment the service ends. With the Lyft app I can tip (or not) later on, and I almost always do. It's not tipping that I don't like; in fact I really like tipping. With their strict no-tipping policy, it turns out that Uber missed the mark here, at least for me.
- myrandomcomment 10y ago
  Agreed. Used Uber for what? 2 years now? Just tried Lyft after all the crap about Uber and I liked it. I normally do tip the Uber driver for a long ride (I live in NorCal an my house is a pain to get to). Moving on to Lyft. I like the fact I can tip in the app.
- aninhumer 10y ago
  Hmm, I'm normally against tipping, but now I'm wondering if this might be a solution to the problems with 5-star rating systems. I've often thought that it would be better to have a simple thumb up/down for quality control and then a separate above-and-beyond option for recognising exceptional service, but that requires friction on the latter option to make it work properly. Initially I was thinking just requiring a minimum comment length would work, but having to tip e.g. $1 might be a good alternative to that.
  - wheelerwj 10y ago
    ubers rating system used to be a lot simpler, this "give a compliment" shit is terrible, i dont even use it anymore. i miss in app tipping too. i really wish lyft was available in my area.
  - dnautics 10y ago
    I often thought that the system should be "thumbs down"/"neutral"/"thumbs up" and if you give a thumbs up it prompts to tip, if you give a "thumbs down" it doesn't let you clear out unless you give at least one reason. On the other hand even with the uneven distribution of ratings, now median driver is of lower quality, you can really tell the difference between a 5.0 (really 4.95+ driver) and 4.8 driver; and a 4.8 driver and a 4.5-4.6 driver. I was a perfect 5.0 (100 consecutive perfect ratings) only twice during my career as a driver, but damn it felt good. Usually I hovered around 4.92-4.97, which can look like a 5.0 to the passenger. There is an interesting feedback effect that a lot of drivers don't understand. If a passenger sees that your rating is lower, then they will be more in tuned to the defects in the experience you deliver; If they see that your rating is higher, they will overlook some of the problems. Moreover, if you see that your rating is low, you're more likely to have a generally negative disposition and project an attitude that is going to make it harder to get back up there. Psychological management is a key part of the driver experience. I once counseled a young driver who was distraught that he was a 4.6 average driver, leading to a generally negative attitude to his passengers (and probably some good passengers saw his score and cancelled on him too) and I told him that he needed to either break out of a negative cycle or quit driving.
- developer2 10y ago
  With optional after-the-fact tipping, I'd still be concerned whether or not the fact you tipped is tracked. When you tip, is the driver individually informed? The next time you get the same driver, are they in a position to remember that you were a bad tipper on the last trip? Even if the driver isn't made aware of your individual tipping history, surely the company as a whole is tracking this information and building a (negative) profile for you. Do they charge you more on subsequent rides to compensate for your perceived poor history? This is the problem with tipping - there is ALWAYS room for abuse. I don't understand why you'd be at ease for not being "put on the spot" to tip, when the driver or company still knows afterwards. The facts haven't changed; they still know whether you tip, and any "consequences" for not tipping will still be in play. You're playing a mind game with yourself if you think that adding a few hours of buffer between service and tip is any different than tipping on the spot. This is why, all employees - regardless of the company and its industry - should not be tipped. Pay your staff a proper wage, and fire people who do not provide good service. The very concept of tipping is ridiculous. It serves no other reason than to satisfy employers' lowballing of wage, while inducing anxiety to their customers.
  - Jarwain 10y ago
    I'd assume Lyft has the information as to who you tipped and how much. However, my understanding is that the driver does not know which individual tipped them (and rates the passenger lacking this information). The driver's tips are summed up in a daily report making it difficult to know who tipped and how much
    - rubzah 10y ago
      That's exactly how it should be designed in my opinion. If the driver is doing a good job, his total tips will go up. No point in haggling with individual customers.
  - dnautics 10y ago
    Some answers (specifically, addressing the situation with Lyft): > When you tip, is the driver individually informed? No, not directly. Yes, indirectly. You get a ride summary at the end of the day. Backtracking who tipped what takes effort. Even so, sometimes people tip when they open their app back up (or through the email) which can present a lag... I've gotten "x tip from day y" additions to my ride summary days or even weeks later. Bottom line: If you have 15-20 rides a day you're not going to check unless it was memorable. Over the course of a year and half I checked maybe five times. Once, when I drove the guy who owned the world's second tallest yacht. Another time, when I drove a group of stanford students from north beach back to campus. One of the passengers threw up in the car four times (but I was super prepared with emesis bags), so I saved the guy who ordered the lyft the $150 cleanup fee. He tipped me $20. Honestly, a perceptive driver will be able to tell if you tip within the first few moments of your entering the car. There are socioeconomic trends. I once picked up a valet at a fancy restaurant in San Diego. We chatted about who tips and who doesn't. Soccer moms in their minivans tip. Tesla and Porche drivers almost never tip. Are you picking up someone working in the service industry? They're almost guaranteed tippers. Is someone a lyft/uber driver? Almost guaranteed to tip too. > The next time you get the same driver, are they in a position to remember that you were a bad tipper on the last trip? Yes, but it's unrealistic. Over the course of a year and a half approximately 10,000 distinct people rode in my car. Only about 10-15% of my rides had a tip. Do you think I knew exactly which 10% were tippers? > Even if the driver isn't made aware of your individual tipping history, surely the company as a whole is tracking this information and building a (negative) profile for you. Do they charge you more on subsequent rides to compensate for your perceived poor history? They won't charge you more on subsequent rides.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
nvr219 10y ago
I don't believe this will come anywhere near the biggest challenge they face.
- rdiddly 10y ago
  I think it's a small part of the 3rd-biggest challenge they face. 1: Google LiDAR suit 2: sexual harassment 3: driver exploitation 4: local regulation Though you'll notice the most recent problems are higher in the list, indicating short public memory/outrage.
dawnerd 10y ago
I deleted my Uber account over all the bad press and a few bad rides last couple months. There's definitely a trend for the drivers to be either really really bad at driving, or super aggressive with tips. Do drivers really expect people using a cashless system to... carry cash? I actually had one driver accepts tips using stripe.
- cortesoft 10y ago
  I wonder if this varies by region? I ride with uber quite a bit here in Los Angeles, and I have never once been asked for a tip. I wonder what makes it different?
  - dawnerd 10y ago
    It might be in really tourist-heavy areas like Vegas and Orlando (where my bad encounters have been).
  - jdormit 10y ago
    Here in Salt Lake I have never been asked for a tip. In general though, I've found Uber experiences to vary significantly by region. In Salt Lake, I usually sit in the front seat, drivers are chatty, and the whole thing feels like "someone giving you a ride". In NYC, by contrast, I mostly sit in the back (a lot of the time the driver will block off the front passenger seat), drivers don't tend to talk, and the whole thing feels like a cab ride. In fact, I would guess that many Uber drivers in NYC are/were taxi drivers.
    - sethhochberg 10y ago
      NYC requires Uber drivers to be licensed as "TLC" drivers (taxi and limousine commission) - so yeah, they are exclusively professional drivers who would usually normally be working for a car service.
      - jdormit 10y ago
        Interesting! That somewhat defeats the purpose of Uber, doesn't it?
pmorici 10y ago
I stopped using Uber and switched to lyft exactly because Uber doesn't allow in app tipping. The problem is you aren't paying more for each fare to avoid tipping Uber is just using it's duoploy pricing power to put the squeeze on drivers.
- dlp211 10y ago
  If you have a problem with Uber's business practices, stop using them. That is the way this is supposed to work.
  - ebbv 10y ago
    That's exactly what he said he did my man.
  - pmorici 10y ago
    I literally just said I stopped using them because I didn't care for the way they operated. I don't understand what you are trying to say.
- Gorbzel 10y ago
  I try to upvote rather than +1, but chiming in to point out how wrong the parent comment is assuming they shouldn't tip. Of course, scrolling down the thread just shows that waaay too many HNers live in their own bubble pretending to be Mr. Pink with their mightier-than-thousplaining that justifies their miserliness. No matter how disruptive moving livery to cashless may have been, the truth remains: Uber's current business model is classic leveraging of unorganized labor in order to take advantage of a race to the bottom among drivers. Of course, this wouldn't be sustainable for a second absent Valley VC's willingness to subsidize this mirage until customers are hooked, regulators are left feckless, and then like clockwork, rates are raised with none for the drivers. It'd be unethical, absent this sort of business being an accepted part of the marketplace. It's called hospitality, and it is driven by tipping. There's absolutely nothing new or justifiable about the type of thinking on this thread. Pool/Line are down to $2.50 for 15-20 minute rides. If you enjoy bragging about avoiding the social contract inherent in tipping economies, you are no different than Susan Fowler's HR encounters: looking the other way as Kalanick rips off those whose livelihood he actively suppresses.
SilasX 10y ago
I do feel the same way! But Uber's relentless fare-cutting has made it such a bad deal for drivers that I feel the awkwardness has come right back, since I'd pretty much have to tip in order to not feel like I'm taking advantage of the driver.
- taneq 10y ago
  You're not taking advantage of the driver. Uber is. It's the same thing with restaurants - you're letting yourself be guilted into subsidizing a corporation's business strategy, with the justification that it's either you that gets screwed, or their employees.
  - dorfsmay 10y ago
    That's why I always pay 15% tip at restaurants regardless of the service. I disagree with tipping (an after-the-fact unilateral contract), but we know that restaurants don't pay fair wages. EDIT: Following some comments here, I feel I need to add that I'm in Canada where 15% is considered "normal".
    - thesmallestcat 10y ago
      15%, regardless of the service? Don't pat yourself on the back so hard.
      - dorfsmay 10y ago
        I'm not patting myself on the back... I'm saying that I don't want to participate in the tipping system, but we know that waiters are not paid fairly. I see the 15% as the salary that is not, but should be, included in the menu. The fact that you thought I was getting an ego boost from tipping is the reason tipping exist, giving people an illusion of power/status.
      - ProfessorLayton 10y ago
        What's the implication here? The parent post paid more than they were required, if not then the business could charge more to cover their costs. This kind of thinking is precisely what's wrong with tipping in the first place.
ryandrake 10y ago
Same here. That's the main advantage of the service--that you don't have to horse around with cash and tipping or fumbling around with a credit card in the back seat while the driver waits. If they ever added the expectation of tipping, I would drop them like a bad habit. The fares are super reasonable and I would be more than happy to pay even a little more if it meant not getting guilt tripped over a tip. Tipping in America is total bonkers and I support any effort to replace every instance of it with 1. me paying the actual advertised price for something and 2. companies paying service workers a fair wage.
- dnautics 10y ago
  There's in app-tipping in lyft. The driver doesn't know whether you've tipped them or not when they rate their experience with you. Moreover, it's relatively difficult for the driver to disentangle who tipped them what from their daily report at the end of the day[0]. So you really can pay based on what your judgement of their service level is. [0] I did once got into a very friendly chat with the "owner of the world's second tallest yacht" (checked it on wikipedia; totally legit) and was memorable enough that I was curious if he tipped. He didn't.
  - nomagicbullet 10y ago
    > Moreover, it's relatively difficult for the driver to disentangle who tipped them > ... > I was curious if he tipped. He didn't. I'm afraid you just dismantled your own argument with your footnote.
    - clort 10y ago
      difficult is not impossible, and the customer was memorable.
- unityByFreedom 10y ago
  > I would be more than happy to pay even a little more if it meant not getting guilt tripped over a tip That does not sound very logical.
morgante 10y ago
That's honestly why I continue to use Uber despite all the negative press. They continue to hold the line against the excessive tipping culture in America and I want to support them for refusing to give in to pressure to add a tipping option to the app. Any driver who aggressively solicits for tips automatically gets a low rating and a note from me.
- lostboys67 10y ago
  "hold the line against the excessive tipping culture " you mean screwing over some poor minimum wage worker and the IRS (which when it comes down to it is you)
  - morgante 10y ago
    Uhhh, how exactly do you think that tipping is good for the IRS? Tips are far less likely to be reported as income than wages are. Your comment makes absolutely no sense.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - matmann2001 10y ago
    Let's be honest here. It's Uber's pricing that is screwing over that worker. It shouldn't be the rider's responsibility to right Uber's wrongs.
buu700 10y ago
+1. I use Uber over Lyft right now because I prefer a UX as close to "type destination, arrive, done" as possible, which Lyft's whole tipping deal needlessly impairs. If Uber is going to implicitly make tipping a requirement to not feel like a jerk (as with Lyft), but without copying Lyft's ability to tip from the app, suddenly Lyft looks a lot less unattractive by comparison. Now that I know this is starting to become a concern at all, I would switch to Lyft immediately if they just added a setting for a default auto-tip that would be factored into fare estimates. I really don't understand this aggressive, cutthroat effort to compete on price at the expense of their drivers; I can't be in the minority in considering price a secondary concern to the overall UX, so long as it isn't unreasonably inflated like taxi fares. Is it possible that the underlying model of ridesharing isn't actually particularly more efficient than the taxi industry, and that Uber/Lyft rates will naturally converge with taxi rates over time as they gradually stop subsidising rides and/or underpaying drivers?
- wpietri 10y ago
  Huh. I use Flywheel, and it has tipping with a default tip. You can change it during or at the end of the ride if you want, but if you do nothing, it sticks with whatever you picked as the default. I'm surprised Lyft doesn't do that.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    I'm always a little miffed at "default" tipping (e.g. Doordash). I feel that if I don't tip, my driver may be less than courteous. I have no idea if they know they're being tipped or not. I like Lyft's model where the driver doesn't know how much you tipped, but knows how much in tips he gets at the end of the day in aggregate... it reinforces positive service while removing any friction to tip or not.
    - wpietri 10y ago
      With Flywheel, you set the default, and have the option to override at the end of each ride. That seems like a good arrangement to me, as it matches how I think of it, and keeps me from accidentally forgetting.
shostack 10y ago
On the bright side, this will be solved forever with the first full auto taxis. Unless Johnny Cab suddenly starts asking for Bitcoin...
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  I believe we're still a decade or more from true driverless vehicles / cabs. There are so so so many situations which require specialized decision making to get out of that we really need general AI to truly have cars drive themselves. I'm sure we'll get some sort of hybrid model sooner where the cars are driverless 95% of the time, but someone at a remote center can take over and pilot it around construction / through a power outage / on icy roads / in emergency situations / while getting pulled over by police / when there is a rally in the streets / on detours with workers waving you on / in freeway shutdown-type situations etc etc. Uber is betting the farm on being able to solve this in the next couple of years or however much financial runway they have left. Good luck, but I don't see how.
  - NetMonkey 10y ago
    But why wouldn't the callcenter approach work? That's where I see many other industries going. Cut the workers, use a callcenter instead through telepresence. Even if it's only 95% selfdriving, that's massive savings compared to having a driver in there 100% of the time.
    - Gustomaximus 10y ago
      This could be great for freight trucking where they spend majority of time on freeways, which should be easy win for self-driving, and then do the last leg with a virtual, or physical pick-up driver. Likewise for shipping.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  "Johnny Cab asks for a Bitcoin" -- Wouldn't make a bad nerd culture faux folk song. (Or a Filk)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jrohn92 10y ago
As a driver for Lyft who is running a startup, every penny counts to make expensive Bay Area rent. Granted, most people don't tip unless it is an airport run. I would like you to put yourself in my shoes or even someone who has children to feed and between jobs. I don't drive for Uber for a reason. Lyft legitimately cares about their drivers' well being. To you a dollar or two does not matter, but for me a good day in tips means an extra hour of time to work on my startup.
- px1999 10y ago
  But isn't that covered in the "willing to pay more for the service" bucket? I find tipping awkward to the point of being willing to pay more for alternatives that bundle an otherwise expected tip into the service's initial pricing.
  - jrohn92 10y ago
    As a driver, sometimes you need to go the extra mile (no pun intended). There are times I need to help passengers carry things, go through drive throughs, catch trains using offensive driving, stopping for drunk people to puke and even serving as a makeshift therapist. The option is there, obviously I don't expect a tip for a 5 minute ride.
    - vostrocity 10y ago
      This is exactly why I enjoy Lyft's option for tipping. Tipping is awkward if I have to fumble for cash and stuff it in the driver's hands. It's not awkward if I can just press a button and charge it to my credit card.
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  Sorry to single you out specifically, but I've seen people put themselves in dire situations for the sake of "doing a startup," and it always makes me cringe. If you're struggling to make rent, maybe you should consider doing something like Upwork or Gigster then? Or even a full time job? Either your startup is succeeding: you've raised enough venture capital to support yourself, or you're making enough revenue to be ramen profitable (I didn't quite interpret your post that way, though). Or you are wasting time and energy on something that just isn't going anywhere where you should be making it a fun side project alongside a full time job instead of a VERY risky 10:1 all-in bet. Most people besides the local SF Peter Pan Syndrome millennial dreamer crowd here would consider it to be very irresponsible to gamble away your time and savings on a stagnant business like that. There's also plenty of great places to start a business that aren't the Bay Area and actually have reasonable costs of living, friendlier regulations, and less taxes (shout out to Pittsburgh!). I'd stay off the hive mind hamster wheel here that you HAVE to be in the most expensive place to live on the planet, or else you're living in Siberia (to borrow the literal smug wording of a Google employee friend justifying their renting at age 35 situation).
grecy 10y ago
As a non-American this is how I feel about tipping in general. It's so much easier to just pay people a decent wage, include it in the cost of things and then not have the pressure of tipping. That, and tipping is akin to having paid servants. i.e. "if you do a good job, and if I feel like it, I might give you some of my wad of cash. Or not, sucker.". (Of course, I do tip because the servers rely on it, I just don't like it)
- borplk 10y ago
  Exactly. As a non-American tipping seems like such a crappy concept to me. Why should service providers be subject to arbitrary decisions of random customers? A service has a price. Either it is provided adequately and you are happy with it in which case you pay the full damn price for it and move on with your life. Or there's a specific problem in which case you can complain specifically and ask for a discount or refund/partial refund. From a business perspective tipping can also be seen as an admission of failure and weakness. In the sense that the business is admitting that the quality of the service is so variable that it calls for a variable judgement of its value. Like maybe you get a crappy waiter and you don't tip, maybe you get an excellent one and now you must leave a good tip. It is also "lazy" because it dumps the responsibility to the consumer. "Just judge how well we do and tip accordingly". Instead as a consumer I want to have certainty and confidence that a given service provided by a business has a predictable and consistent level of quality. And also as a consumer I want the employees to not be subject to my arbitrary personal judgement on a day to day basis. If there's a particular problem I may complain, otherwise just move on with your life.
  - nailer 10y ago
    As a non American, for jobs where the service makes a significant difference, a service charge or tips seems reasonable. I live in London. I generally pay the service charge. Once out of every hundred times I eat out, I ask them to remove the service charge as I spent ten minutes trying to get someone's attention to order, rather than talk to my dining companions. Service doesn't make a huge different for transport though. It's either on time, clean, and takes proper route or not.
muse900 10y ago
I agree. If uber implements tipping, it might be exploitable by the drivers e.g you don't tip me ill give you low rating kind of thing. There is an issue where drivers supposedly make little money, but thats up for the company to solve. Personally I use uber quite a lot in London, and I am asking most uber drivers on how they find the job etc. The vast majority of them reply that they can work whenever they want and its flexible so they like it. On the money side of things they claim that if you work properly and don't rent a car, you could be making around £2-3k a month, which is above the minimum salary in the UK and London. So I think uber drivers are mostly unhappy that they are under self-employment instead of fully employed by Uber etc. Although I can't see a company that would give you the flexibility to work as much as you want and when you want and having to pay for your holidays etc. Its more of an issue of the Gov fixing up some self-employment rights rather than uber itself (my opinion).
yladiz 10y ago
I'm surprised when I hear this, that tipping is so abhorrent that instead of using a service that, while maybe not perfect, is better and doesn't have significant problems within the company (e.g. sexual harassment) and the with treatment of their drivers, amongst other things, the person chooses to stick with Uber. Can someone explain this to me? What's wrong with the Lyft system where tipping is optionally given at the end of the trip, within the app. This seems that it removes the two majors issues with not tipping within Uber: 1) it's optional, and even if it isn't you can simply leave the car and deal with it later, saving you time; and, 2) you're not worried about your rating within the app depending on if you gave a tip or big enough tip. Edit: I'm asking seriously, why is not tipping a justification for keeping Uber? Tipping sucks, sure, but it's part of a lot of service jobs in the states that you just accept.
- kelnos 10y ago
  > Tipping sucks, sure, but it's part of a lot of service jobs in the states that you just accept. I don't think most people "just" accept it. I think they accept it, with extreme reservations, often with a sense of anxiety around social pressure & guilt. So I think you underestimate how much sway a service that doesn't expect/require tips might have over one that does. Having said, that, for me, it's a combination of things. I actually don't object to Lyft's tipping culture (and like you point out, tipping is implemented as close to perfectly as possible on their platform). I use Lyft when it seems to make sense (and tip, often ~20% for shorter rides), but often I find myself seeing a 6 minute estimated wait from Lyft while Uber is saying 2 minutes. I tend to walk a lot when I can, so most of the time I use Uber/Lyft when I'm running late or don't have the time to walk, so 2 vs. 6 actually matters. Or I request a Lyft, get matched with a driver, and see an estimate for a 3 minute arrival, which stays saying "3 minutes" for 10 minutes before I cancel and go back to Uber, and a car arrives to pick me up 2 minutes later. Or there was the time where Android Pay just stopped working in the Lyft app for two weeks. I'm really unhappy with Uber's behavior as a company (and use it less where practical), but they just offer a better product, regardless of their stance on tipping.
rimliu 10y ago
> I would rather pay more for each fare However the most (at least if feels like it for me) stated reason to prefer Uber is "it's cheaper". A few also expressed the opinion that they do not care about company's culture and policies as long as they provide cheap rides.
- kelnos 10y ago
  Is it? I prefer Uber/Lyft because it's convenient (both in arranging the ride and payment) and auditable (account records) and accountable (driver and rider ratings). Being cheaper is a benefit, sure, but I'd still use it nearly as much if it cost the same as a taxi, which I rarely (if ever) used in SF before Uber, because their service level is so bad that I preferred to drive myself or suffer the discomfort, dirtiness, and trip length of Muni. Yup, I'm merely one data point, but my POV is hardly unique.
babyrainbow 10y ago
>No Tipping is one of the main reasons I liked Uber; no cash, no pressure It is a tragedy of recent generations that people cannot even handle a simple decision of to "tip or not to tip" by themselves without going to some amount of "pressure". We are indeed, a generation of sheep, who cannot be expected to make a simple decision all by themselves.
- tghw 10y ago
  I'm more dismayed that the thought of giving another human being a little extra money to thank them for good service is so painful to people that they try to avoid it at all costs. Uber's model feels like it's trying to make the human driver into a robot. Until we have actual robot drivers, I prefer a system that has the tipping built in, e.g. Lyft.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Tipping has been abused by employers to allow them to pay less than a living wage. People who refuse to tip are trying to prevent this abuse. Asking for employees to get a fair wage for the work they do should not be dismaying.
    - tghw 10y ago
      I'm not saying they shouldn't get a living wage before tips, they should. In fact, if we got rid of the minimum wage exceptions for servers, we would immediately revert tipping to what it was intended to be, incentive for good service. What's dismaying is how many people in this thread don't even want to have to think about how the person driving them is a human being, often just trying to make ends meet.
      - Sohcahtoa82 10y ago
        > What's dismaying is how many people in this thread don't even want to have to think about how the person driving them is a human being, often just trying to make ends meet. The problem is, this argument could be applied to all minimum wage workers. Should I tip the cashier at McDonald's or Wal-mart? They're not making a living wage and are probably struggling to make ends meet. How about the guy that pumps my gas (I live in Oregon where it is generally illegal to pump your own gas)? And that's what really gets me about our tipping culture in the USA. We're so inconsistent about who we think we should tip. It's completely arbitrary.
tghw 10y ago
I exclusively use Lyft because they allow tipping. If someone gives me a good, comfortable ride, I want to be able to easily throw a couple of bucks their way. If I'm taking a car service, then I can afford a few extra dollars. Plus, with it being built into the app, there's no need for them to hustle you about it.
sharkmerry 10y ago
If Uber charged more, they would never have gotten a foothold. One of the big selling points was its price.

by redm 10y ago

hyperbovine 10y ago

After I switched to Lyft in the wake of the Susan Fowler thing, I discovered that they give you the option to tip. It made me realize that the pain point of tipping is actually feeling pressured to tip the moment the service ends. With the Lyft app I can tip (or not) later on, and I almost always do. It's not tipping that I don't like; in fact I really like tipping. With their strict no-tipping policy, it turns out that Uber missed the mark here, at least for me.

myrandomcomment 10y ago
Agreed. Used Uber for what? 2 years now? Just tried Lyft after all the crap about Uber and I liked it. I normally do tip the Uber driver for a long ride (I live in NorCal an my house is a pain to get to). Moving on to Lyft. I like the fact I can tip in the app.
aninhumer 10y ago
Hmm, I'm normally against tipping, but now I'm wondering if this might be a solution to the problems with 5-star rating systems. I've often thought that it would be better to have a simple thumb up/down for quality control and then a separate above-and-beyond option for recognising exceptional service, but that requires friction on the latter option to make it work properly. Initially I was thinking just requiring a minimum comment length would work, but having to tip e.g. $1 might be a good alternative to that.
- wheelerwj 10y ago
  ubers rating system used to be a lot simpler, this "give a compliment" shit is terrible, i dont even use it anymore. i miss in app tipping too. i really wish lyft was available in my area.
- dnautics 10y ago
  I often thought that the system should be "thumbs down"/"neutral"/"thumbs up" and if you give a thumbs up it prompts to tip, if you give a "thumbs down" it doesn't let you clear out unless you give at least one reason. On the other hand even with the uneven distribution of ratings, now median driver is of lower quality, you can really tell the difference between a 5.0 (really 4.95+ driver) and 4.8 driver; and a 4.8 driver and a 4.5-4.6 driver. I was a perfect 5.0 (100 consecutive perfect ratings) only twice during my career as a driver, but damn it felt good. Usually I hovered around 4.92-4.97, which can look like a 5.0 to the passenger. There is an interesting feedback effect that a lot of drivers don't understand. If a passenger sees that your rating is lower, then they will be more in tuned to the defects in the experience you deliver; If they see that your rating is higher, they will overlook some of the problems. Moreover, if you see that your rating is low, you're more likely to have a generally negative disposition and project an attitude that is going to make it harder to get back up there. Psychological management is a key part of the driver experience. I once counseled a young driver who was distraught that he was a 4.6 average driver, leading to a generally negative attitude to his passengers (and probably some good passengers saw his score and cancelled on him too) and I told him that he needed to either break out of a negative cycle or quit driving.
developer2 10y ago
With optional after-the-fact tipping, I'd still be concerned whether or not the fact you tipped is tracked. When you tip, is the driver individually informed? The next time you get the same driver, are they in a position to remember that you were a bad tipper on the last trip? Even if the driver isn't made aware of your individual tipping history, surely the company as a whole is tracking this information and building a (negative) profile for you. Do they charge you more on subsequent rides to compensate for your perceived poor history? This is the problem with tipping - there is ALWAYS room for abuse. I don't understand why you'd be at ease for not being "put on the spot" to tip, when the driver or company still knows afterwards. The facts haven't changed; they still know whether you tip, and any "consequences" for not tipping will still be in play. You're playing a mind game with yourself if you think that adding a few hours of buffer between service and tip is any different than tipping on the spot. This is why, all employees - regardless of the company and its industry - should not be tipped. Pay your staff a proper wage, and fire people who do not provide good service. The very concept of tipping is ridiculous. It serves no other reason than to satisfy employers' lowballing of wage, while inducing anxiety to their customers.
- Jarwain 10y ago
  I'd assume Lyft has the information as to who you tipped and how much. However, my understanding is that the driver does not know which individual tipped them (and rates the passenger lacking this information). The driver's tips are summed up in a daily report making it difficult to know who tipped and how much
  - rubzah 10y ago
    That's exactly how it should be designed in my opinion. If the driver is doing a good job, his total tips will go up. No point in haggling with individual customers.
- dnautics 10y ago
  Some answers (specifically, addressing the situation with Lyft): > When you tip, is the driver individually informed? No, not directly. Yes, indirectly. You get a ride summary at the end of the day. Backtracking who tipped what takes effort. Even so, sometimes people tip when they open their app back up (or through the email) which can present a lag... I've gotten "x tip from day y" additions to my ride summary days or even weeks later. Bottom line: If you have 15-20 rides a day you're not going to check unless it was memorable. Over the course of a year and half I checked maybe five times. Once, when I drove the guy who owned the world's second tallest yacht. Another time, when I drove a group of stanford students from north beach back to campus. One of the passengers threw up in the car four times (but I was super prepared with emesis bags), so I saved the guy who ordered the lyft the $150 cleanup fee. He tipped me $20. Honestly, a perceptive driver will be able to tell if you tip within the first few moments of your entering the car. There are socioeconomic trends. I once picked up a valet at a fancy restaurant in San Diego. We chatted about who tips and who doesn't. Soccer moms in their minivans tip. Tesla and Porche drivers almost never tip. Are you picking up someone working in the service industry? They're almost guaranteed tippers. Is someone a lyft/uber driver? Almost guaranteed to tip too. > The next time you get the same driver, are they in a position to remember that you were a bad tipper on the last trip? Yes, but it's unrealistic. Over the course of a year and a half approximately 10,000 distinct people rode in my car. Only about 10-15% of my rides had a tip. Do you think I knew exactly which 10% were tippers? > Even if the driver isn't made aware of your individual tipping history, surely the company as a whole is tracking this information and building a (negative) profile for you. Do they charge you more on subsequent rides to compensate for your perceived poor history? They won't charge you more on subsequent rides.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

nvr219 10y ago

I don't believe this will come anywhere near the biggest challenge they face.

rdiddly 10y ago
I think it's a small part of the 3rd-biggest challenge they face. 1: Google LiDAR suit 2: sexual harassment 3: driver exploitation 4: local regulation Though you'll notice the most recent problems are higher in the list, indicating short public memory/outrage.

dawnerd 10y ago

I deleted my Uber account over all the bad press and a few bad rides last couple months. There's definitely a trend for the drivers to be either really really bad at driving, or super aggressive with tips. Do drivers really expect people using a cashless system to... carry cash? I actually had one driver accepts tips using stripe.

cortesoft 10y ago
I wonder if this varies by region? I ride with uber quite a bit here in Los Angeles, and I have never once been asked for a tip. I wonder what makes it different?
- dawnerd 10y ago
  It might be in really tourist-heavy areas like Vegas and Orlando (where my bad encounters have been).
- jdormit 10y ago
  Here in Salt Lake I have never been asked for a tip. In general though, I've found Uber experiences to vary significantly by region. In Salt Lake, I usually sit in the front seat, drivers are chatty, and the whole thing feels like "someone giving you a ride". In NYC, by contrast, I mostly sit in the back (a lot of the time the driver will block off the front passenger seat), drivers don't tend to talk, and the whole thing feels like a cab ride. In fact, I would guess that many Uber drivers in NYC are/were taxi drivers.
  - sethhochberg 10y ago
    NYC requires Uber drivers to be licensed as "TLC" drivers (taxi and limousine commission) - so yeah, they are exclusively professional drivers who would usually normally be working for a car service.
    - jdormit 10y ago
      Interesting! That somewhat defeats the purpose of Uber, doesn't it?

pmorici 10y ago

I stopped using Uber and switched to lyft exactly because Uber doesn't allow in app tipping. The problem is you aren't paying more for each fare to avoid tipping Uber is just using it's duoploy pricing power to put the squeeze on drivers.

dlp211 10y ago
If you have a problem with Uber's business practices, stop using them. That is the way this is supposed to work.
- ebbv 10y ago
  That's exactly what he said he did my man.
- pmorici 10y ago
  I literally just said I stopped using them because I didn't care for the way they operated. I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Gorbzel 10y ago
I try to upvote rather than +1, but chiming in to point out how wrong the parent comment is assuming they shouldn't tip. Of course, scrolling down the thread just shows that waaay too many HNers live in their own bubble pretending to be Mr. Pink with their mightier-than-thousplaining that justifies their miserliness. No matter how disruptive moving livery to cashless may have been, the truth remains: Uber's current business model is classic leveraging of unorganized labor in order to take advantage of a race to the bottom among drivers. Of course, this wouldn't be sustainable for a second absent Valley VC's willingness to subsidize this mirage until customers are hooked, regulators are left feckless, and then like clockwork, rates are raised with none for the drivers. It'd be unethical, absent this sort of business being an accepted part of the marketplace. It's called hospitality, and it is driven by tipping. There's absolutely nothing new or justifiable about the type of thinking on this thread. Pool/Line are down to $2.50 for 15-20 minute rides. If you enjoy bragging about avoiding the social contract inherent in tipping economies, you are no different than Susan Fowler's HR encounters: looking the other way as Kalanick rips off those whose livelihood he actively suppresses.

SilasX 10y ago

I do feel the same way! But Uber's relentless fare-cutting has made it such a bad deal for drivers that I feel the awkwardness has come right back, since I'd pretty much have to tip in order to not feel like I'm taking advantage of the driver.

taneq 10y ago
You're not taking advantage of the driver. Uber is. It's the same thing with restaurants - you're letting yourself be guilted into subsidizing a corporation's business strategy, with the justification that it's either you that gets screwed, or their employees.
- dorfsmay 10y ago
  That's why I always pay 15% tip at restaurants regardless of the service. I disagree with tipping (an after-the-fact unilateral contract), but we know that restaurants don't pay fair wages. EDIT: Following some comments here, I feel I need to add that I'm in Canada where 15% is considered "normal".
  - thesmallestcat 10y ago
    15%, regardless of the service? Don't pat yourself on the back so hard.
    - dorfsmay 10y ago
      I'm not patting myself on the back... I'm saying that I don't want to participate in the tipping system, but we know that waiters are not paid fairly. I see the 15% as the salary that is not, but should be, included in the menu. The fact that you thought I was getting an ego boost from tipping is the reason tipping exist, giving people an illusion of power/status.
    - ProfessorLayton 10y ago
      What's the implication here? The parent post paid more than they were required, if not then the business could charge more to cover their costs. This kind of thinking is precisely what's wrong with tipping in the first place.

ryandrake 10y ago

Same here. That's the main advantage of the service--that you don't have to horse around with cash and tipping or fumbling around with a credit card in the back seat while the driver waits. If they ever added the expectation of tipping, I would drop them like a bad habit. The fares are super reasonable and I would be more than happy to pay even a little more if it meant not getting guilt tripped over a tip. Tipping in America is total bonkers and I support any effort to replace every instance of it with 1. me paying the actual advertised price for something and 2. companies paying service workers a fair wage.

dnautics 10y ago
There's in app-tipping in lyft. The driver doesn't know whether you've tipped them or not when they rate their experience with you. Moreover, it's relatively difficult for the driver to disentangle who tipped them what from their daily report at the end of the day[0]. So you really can pay based on what your judgement of their service level is. [0] I did once got into a very friendly chat with the "owner of the world's second tallest yacht" (checked it on wikipedia; totally legit) and was memorable enough that I was curious if he tipped. He didn't.
- nomagicbullet 10y ago
  > Moreover, it's relatively difficult for the driver to disentangle who tipped them > ... > I was curious if he tipped. He didn't. I'm afraid you just dismantled your own argument with your footnote.
  - clort 10y ago
    difficult is not impossible, and the customer was memorable.
unityByFreedom 10y ago
> I would be more than happy to pay even a little more if it meant not getting guilt tripped over a tip That does not sound very logical.

morgante 10y ago

That's honestly why I continue to use Uber despite all the negative press. They continue to hold the line against the excessive tipping culture in America and I want to support them for refusing to give in to pressure to add a tipping option to the app. Any driver who aggressively solicits for tips automatically gets a low rating and a note from me.

lostboys67 10y ago
"hold the line against the excessive tipping culture " you mean screwing over some poor minimum wage worker and the IRS (which when it comes down to it is you)
- morgante 10y ago
  Uhhh, how exactly do you think that tipping is good for the IRS? Tips are far less likely to be reported as income than wages are. Your comment makes absolutely no sense.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- matmann2001 10y ago
  Let's be honest here. It's Uber's pricing that is screwing over that worker. It shouldn't be the rider's responsibility to right Uber's wrongs.

buu700 10y ago

+1. I use Uber over Lyft right now because I prefer a UX as close to "type destination, arrive, done" as possible, which Lyft's whole tipping deal needlessly impairs. If Uber is going to implicitly make tipping a requirement to not feel like a jerk (as with Lyft), but without copying Lyft's ability to tip from the app, suddenly Lyft looks a lot less unattractive by comparison. Now that I know this is starting to become a concern at all, I would switch to Lyft immediately if they just added a setting for a default auto-tip that would be factored into fare estimates. I really don't understand this aggressive, cutthroat effort to compete on price at the expense of their drivers; I can't be in the minority in considering price a secondary concern to the overall UX, so long as it isn't unreasonably inflated like taxi fares. Is it possible that the underlying model of ridesharing isn't actually particularly more efficient than the taxi industry, and that Uber/Lyft rates will naturally converge with taxi rates over time as they gradually stop subsidising rides and/or underpaying drivers?

wpietri 10y ago
Huh. I use Flywheel, and it has tipping with a default tip. You can change it during or at the end of the ride if you want, but if you do nothing, it sticks with whatever you picked as the default. I'm surprised Lyft doesn't do that.
- r00fus 10y ago
  I'm always a little miffed at "default" tipping (e.g. Doordash). I feel that if I don't tip, my driver may be less than courteous. I have no idea if they know they're being tipped or not. I like Lyft's model where the driver doesn't know how much you tipped, but knows how much in tips he gets at the end of the day in aggregate... it reinforces positive service while removing any friction to tip or not.
  - wpietri 10y ago
    With Flywheel, you set the default, and have the option to override at the end of each ride. That seems like a good arrangement to me, as it matches how I think of it, and keeps me from accidentally forgetting.

shostack 10y ago

On the bright side, this will be solved forever with the first full auto taxis. Unless Johnny Cab suddenly starts asking for Bitcoin...

seanp2k2 10y ago
I believe we're still a decade or more from true driverless vehicles / cabs. There are so so so many situations which require specialized decision making to get out of that we really need general AI to truly have cars drive themselves. I'm sure we'll get some sort of hybrid model sooner where the cars are driverless 95% of the time, but someone at a remote center can take over and pilot it around construction / through a power outage / on icy roads / in emergency situations / while getting pulled over by police / when there is a rally in the streets / on detours with workers waving you on / in freeway shutdown-type situations etc etc. Uber is betting the farm on being able to solve this in the next couple of years or however much financial runway they have left. Good luck, but I don't see how.
- NetMonkey 10y ago
  But why wouldn't the callcenter approach work? That's where I see many other industries going. Cut the workers, use a callcenter instead through telepresence. Even if it's only 95% selfdriving, that's massive savings compared to having a driver in there 100% of the time.
  - Gustomaximus 10y ago
    This could be great for freight trucking where they spend majority of time on freeways, which should be easy win for self-driving, and then do the last leg with a virtual, or physical pick-up driver. Likewise for shipping.
stcredzero 10y ago
"Johnny Cab asks for a Bitcoin" -- Wouldn't make a bad nerd culture faux folk song. (Or a Filk)

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jrohn92 10y ago

As a driver for Lyft who is running a startup, every penny counts to make expensive Bay Area rent. Granted, most people don't tip unless it is an airport run. I would like you to put yourself in my shoes or even someone who has children to feed and between jobs. I don't drive for Uber for a reason. Lyft legitimately cares about their drivers' well being. To you a dollar or two does not matter, but for me a good day in tips means an extra hour of time to work on my startup.

px1999 10y ago
But isn't that covered in the "willing to pay more for the service" bucket? I find tipping awkward to the point of being willing to pay more for alternatives that bundle an otherwise expected tip into the service's initial pricing.
- jrohn92 10y ago
  As a driver, sometimes you need to go the extra mile (no pun intended). There are times I need to help passengers carry things, go through drive throughs, catch trains using offensive driving, stopping for drunk people to puke and even serving as a makeshift therapist. The option is there, obviously I don't expect a tip for a 5 minute ride.
  - vostrocity 10y ago
    This is exactly why I enjoy Lyft's option for tipping. Tipping is awkward if I have to fumble for cash and stuff it in the driver's hands. It's not awkward if I can just press a button and charge it to my credit card.
Hydraulix989 10y ago
Sorry to single you out specifically, but I've seen people put themselves in dire situations for the sake of "doing a startup," and it always makes me cringe. If you're struggling to make rent, maybe you should consider doing something like Upwork or Gigster then? Or even a full time job? Either your startup is succeeding: you've raised enough venture capital to support yourself, or you're making enough revenue to be ramen profitable (I didn't quite interpret your post that way, though). Or you are wasting time and energy on something that just isn't going anywhere where you should be making it a fun side project alongside a full time job instead of a VERY risky 10:1 all-in bet. Most people besides the local SF Peter Pan Syndrome millennial dreamer crowd here would consider it to be very irresponsible to gamble away your time and savings on a stagnant business like that. There's also plenty of great places to start a business that aren't the Bay Area and actually have reasonable costs of living, friendlier regulations, and less taxes (shout out to Pittsburgh!). I'd stay off the hive mind hamster wheel here that you HAVE to be in the most expensive place to live on the planet, or else you're living in Siberia (to borrow the literal smug wording of a Google employee friend justifying their renting at age 35 situation).

grecy 10y ago

As a non-American this is how I feel about tipping in general. It's so much easier to just pay people a decent wage, include it in the cost of things and then not have the pressure of tipping. That, and tipping is akin to having paid servants. i.e. "if you do a good job, and if I feel like it, I might give you some of my wad of cash. Or not, sucker.". (Of course, I do tip because the servers rely on it, I just don't like it)

borplk 10y ago
Exactly. As a non-American tipping seems like such a crappy concept to me. Why should service providers be subject to arbitrary decisions of random customers? A service has a price. Either it is provided adequately and you are happy with it in which case you pay the full damn price for it and move on with your life. Or there's a specific problem in which case you can complain specifically and ask for a discount or refund/partial refund. From a business perspective tipping can also be seen as an admission of failure and weakness. In the sense that the business is admitting that the quality of the service is so variable that it calls for a variable judgement of its value. Like maybe you get a crappy waiter and you don't tip, maybe you get an excellent one and now you must leave a good tip. It is also "lazy" because it dumps the responsibility to the consumer. "Just judge how well we do and tip accordingly". Instead as a consumer I want to have certainty and confidence that a given service provided by a business has a predictable and consistent level of quality. And also as a consumer I want the employees to not be subject to my arbitrary personal judgement on a day to day basis. If there's a particular problem I may complain, otherwise just move on with your life.
- nailer 10y ago
  As a non American, for jobs where the service makes a significant difference, a service charge or tips seems reasonable. I live in London. I generally pay the service charge. Once out of every hundred times I eat out, I ask them to remove the service charge as I spent ten minutes trying to get someone's attention to order, rather than talk to my dining companions. Service doesn't make a huge different for transport though. It's either on time, clean, and takes proper route or not.

muse900 10y ago

I agree. If uber implements tipping, it might be exploitable by the drivers e.g you don't tip me ill give you low rating kind of thing. There is an issue where drivers supposedly make little money, but thats up for the company to solve. Personally I use uber quite a lot in London, and I am asking most uber drivers on how they find the job etc. The vast majority of them reply that they can work whenever they want and its flexible so they like it. On the money side of things they claim that if you work properly and don't rent a car, you could be making around £2-3k a month, which is above the minimum salary in the UK and London. So I think uber drivers are mostly unhappy that they are under self-employment instead of fully employed by Uber etc. Although I can't see a company that would give you the flexibility to work as much as you want and when you want and having to pay for your holidays etc. Its more of an issue of the Gov fixing up some self-employment rights rather than uber itself (my opinion).

yladiz 10y ago

I'm surprised when I hear this, that tipping is so abhorrent that instead of using a service that, while maybe not perfect, is better and doesn't have significant problems within the company (e.g. sexual harassment) and the with treatment of their drivers, amongst other things, the person chooses to stick with Uber. Can someone explain this to me? What's wrong with the Lyft system where tipping is optionally given at the end of the trip, within the app. This seems that it removes the two majors issues with not tipping within Uber: 1) it's optional, and even if it isn't you can simply leave the car and deal with it later, saving you time; and, 2) you're not worried about your rating within the app depending on if you gave a tip or big enough tip. Edit: I'm asking seriously, why is not tipping a justification for keeping Uber? Tipping sucks, sure, but it's part of a lot of service jobs in the states that you just accept.

kelnos 10y ago
> Tipping sucks, sure, but it's part of a lot of service jobs in the states that you just accept. I don't think most people "just" accept it. I think they accept it, with extreme reservations, often with a sense of anxiety around social pressure & guilt. So I think you underestimate how much sway a service that doesn't expect/require tips might have over one that does. Having said, that, for me, it's a combination of things. I actually don't object to Lyft's tipping culture (and like you point out, tipping is implemented as close to perfectly as possible on their platform). I use Lyft when it seems to make sense (and tip, often ~20% for shorter rides), but often I find myself seeing a 6 minute estimated wait from Lyft while Uber is saying 2 minutes. I tend to walk a lot when I can, so most of the time I use Uber/Lyft when I'm running late or don't have the time to walk, so 2 vs. 6 actually matters. Or I request a Lyft, get matched with a driver, and see an estimate for a 3 minute arrival, which stays saying "3 minutes" for 10 minutes before I cancel and go back to Uber, and a car arrives to pick me up 2 minutes later. Or there was the time where Android Pay just stopped working in the Lyft app for two weeks. I'm really unhappy with Uber's behavior as a company (and use it less where practical), but they just offer a better product, regardless of their stance on tipping.

rimliu 10y ago

> I would rather pay more for each fare However the most (at least if feels like it for me) stated reason to prefer Uber is "it's cheaper". A few also expressed the opinion that they do not care about company's culture and policies as long as they provide cheap rides.

kelnos 10y ago
Is it? I prefer Uber/Lyft because it's convenient (both in arranging the ride and payment) and auditable (account records) and accountable (driver and rider ratings). Being cheaper is a benefit, sure, but I'd still use it nearly as much if it cost the same as a taxi, which I rarely (if ever) used in SF before Uber, because their service level is so bad that I preferred to drive myself or suffer the discomfort, dirtiness, and trip length of Muni. Yup, I'm merely one data point, but my POV is hardly unique.

babyrainbow 10y ago

>No Tipping is one of the main reasons I liked Uber; no cash, no pressure It is a tragedy of recent generations that people cannot even handle a simple decision of to "tip or not to tip" by themselves without going to some amount of "pressure". We are indeed, a generation of sheep, who cannot be expected to make a simple decision all by themselves.

tghw 10y ago
I'm more dismayed that the thought of giving another human being a little extra money to thank them for good service is so painful to people that they try to avoid it at all costs. Uber's model feels like it's trying to make the human driver into a robot. Until we have actual robot drivers, I prefer a system that has the tipping built in, e.g. Lyft.
- DanBC 10y ago
  Tipping has been abused by employers to allow them to pay less than a living wage. People who refuse to tip are trying to prevent this abuse. Asking for employees to get a fair wage for the work they do should not be dismaying.
  - tghw 10y ago
    I'm not saying they shouldn't get a living wage before tips, they should. In fact, if we got rid of the minimum wage exceptions for servers, we would immediately revert tipping to what it was intended to be, incentive for good service. What's dismaying is how many people in this thread don't even want to have to think about how the person driving them is a human being, often just trying to make ends meet.
    - Sohcahtoa82 10y ago
      > What's dismaying is how many people in this thread don't even want to have to think about how the person driving them is a human being, often just trying to make ends meet. The problem is, this argument could be applied to all minimum wage workers. Should I tip the cashier at McDonald's or Wal-mart? They're not making a living wage and are probably struggling to make ends meet. How about the guy that pumps my gas (I live in Oregon where it is generally illegal to pump your own gas)? And that's what really gets me about our tipping culture in the USA. We're so inconsistent about who we think we should tip. It's completely arbitrary.

tghw 10y ago

I exclusively use Lyft because they allow tipping. If someone gives me a good, comfortable ride, I want to be able to easily throw a couple of bucks their way. If I'm taking a car service, then I can afford a few extra dollars. Plus, with it being built into the app, there's no need for them to hustle you about it.

sharkmerry 10y ago

If Uber charged more, they would never have gotten a foothold. One of the big selling points was its price.