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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
- dankohn1 10y agoI appreciate Matt Yglesias's snarky tweet[0]: "Depriving Americans of valuable founder opportunities". The lump of unicorns fallacy is a nice update to the lump of labor fallacy [1]. [0] https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/841305139440959488 https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/841305139440959488 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy
- dominotw 10y agoThwarted by paywall but why does there need to be a "study" on this? Can't you just gather this info from govt databases?
- BanzaiTokyo 10y agothat's what is called "a study"
- Waterluvian 10y ago'study' doesn't always mean collecting primary data.
- dominotw 10y agoShouldn't all news articles start with the word 'Study' then since all of them require some sort of data gathering?
- jws 10y agoThe research involved conducting interviews and gathering information on the 87 U.S. startup companies valued at over $1 billion (as of January 1, 2016) that have yet to become publicly traded on the U.S. stock market and are tracked by The Wall Street Journal and Dow Jones VentureSource. The report runs on 30 or so pages and includes descriptions of companies with immigrants in key positions and, how they came to the US, and mini-bios of many of them.
- awt 10y agoI wonder if this is true in China and Japan as well.
- jws 10y agoA link to the study for those without WSJ subscriptions: http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Immigrants-and-Billion-Dollar-Startups.NFAP-Policy-Brief.March-2016.pdf http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Immigrants-and-Bi... [PDF]
- nerdponx 10y agoWhat percentage of all startups are founded by immigrants? If it's on the order of 51%, you can't rule out the possibility that this number just reflects the base occurrence rate of immigrants in the "population" of all startup founders.
- cromwellian 10y agoCould be true but looks just as bad. If 51% of all startups are founded by a tiny minority of immigrants relative to the general population, then why the hell do we want to keep these people out?
- xapata 10y agoI don't think that'd counter the author's point.
- nerdponx 10y agoNo, but it changes it.
- davidf18 10y agoGood studies must discuss denominators as well as numerators. The 51% is misleading. What would be important to know is how many immigrants were founders with a denominator of how many founders were there. Moreover, there is some (wrong) assumption that an American could not have been a founder in place of the immigrant founders of a similar company. H1-B visas were created for the intent of not displacing Americans but rather filing jobs for which Americans do not have the skill. Americans have skills for almost all of the jobs that are filled with H1-B visas. There should be a independent committee that verifies that there are absolutely no Americans available for each individual job.
- basseq 10y agoThe 51% is misleading. What would be important to know is how many immigrants were founders with a denominator of how many founders were there. The statistic here is: "51% of unicorns had at least one founder who was born in another country". Palantir, for example, is included as an "immigrant-founded company", which it is, but Peter Thiel (Germany) is one of five co-founders. So with a subset of one company, only 20% of founders were immigrants.
- that_guy1 10y agoAnd the amoutn of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups founded by illegal immigrants?
- bayesian_horse 10y agoSome of these entrepreneurs actually abused their visa, so technically, even tech founders often are illegal immigrants.
- Cuuugi 10y agoWhenever I see "Immigration" in the title, i think anti-Trump and get sad. No one is trying to stop legal immigration. Tech companies are mad because they are cracking down on H1-B Visa abuse. This is not a bad thing.
- coldpie 10y agoThe travel ban is 100% about stopping legal immigration.
- sremani 10y agoVisa is different from Immigration, technically speaking.
- coldpie 10y agoGreen card holders? Refugees? Migrants' family members? Don't try to paper over or make excuses for the blatant racism espoused by the Republican party.
- GrinningFool 10y ago> by the Republican party. By some members of it, anyway. The Republican party is no more a united front than the Democrat party at the moment.
- coldpie 10y agoGosh, thanks for the correction. We wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of the racists' close allies and supporters, now, would we? Supporting Republicans means supporting racism. This was made extremely clear during the 2016 election, and I don't see any Republicans scrambling to prevent the White House's blatantly racist policies since then. There are no more excuses, you are either a supporter of hate and bigotry or you are not a Republican.
- OniBait 10y agoWhy is a study from a year ago being brought up now?
- rs1234 10y agoImmigrants founded 99.99% of all US startups (except for a few casinos)
- MrInvisible 10y agoFun Fact: If you were born and raised in a country your ancestors founded, you're not an immigrant. Also A Fun Fact: Natives never created a complex enough society to call anything a 'country'. The United States was founded by Whites on landed they had won from the Natives by right of conquest.
- skylan_q 10y agoSome weren't immigrants, but conquerors.
- tdb7893 10y agoIf we go far back enough wouldn't native americans be immigrants, too?
- halomru 10y agoNo, because the idea of nations is a lot newer than that. Without nations no immigrants.
- tdb7893 10y agoI guess. This is a semantic argument but I'm actually a little curious. Does this mean that Europeans who settled in lands not specifically claimed by native Americans or European powers aren't immigrants? Also what's your opinion on whether you call someone am immigrant if they took the land by force and just declared it their's?
- protomyth 10y agoI would expect better of HN. The casino comment is pathetic. Native Americans have founded many businesses despite the many problems with dealing with banks from a reservation perspective.
- MrInvisible 10y agoHow many are educated Whites and Asians versus Mexicans and Middle Easterners?
- bayesian_horse 10y agoOne of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.
- xapata 10y agoAnd this matters because individual productivity is a log-normal distribution, like VC returns. As a country it's a good investment to invite millions of immigrants trying to find the next major inventor. I suppose this also relies on national productivity being the product of, not the sum of individuals productivity.
- rayiner 10y agoIt seems to make that cuts the other way. What is the cost of integrating and potentially supporting a million immigrants compared to the return from one billion dollar startup? (Especially when we're talking a billion dollars of Monopoly money valuation versus day a billion in revenue.)
- xapata 10y agoSo far it's worked out, I think. I'm not talking about a billion dollar startup, but trillion-dollar technology. Think Manhattan project, not WhatsApp.
- rayiner 10y ago> Think Manhattan project So established scientists from Western countries?
- surfmike 10y agoDon't comment about history you know nothing about. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2011/11/11/a-veterans-day-story-immigrants-and-the-atomic-bomb/#1e5051291e07 https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2011/11/11/a-vet... Edit: I apologize for the snark. As long as Hungary, Russia, Poland are counted as the West (and they generally are), then I agree with you.
- swanson 10y agoThe linked study has one "key finding" that "The billion dollar startup companies with an immigrant founder excel at job creation" but I don't see anything in the study to indicate how the job creation at these immigrant founded companies compares to "non-immigrant" founded companies. The provided data appears to just be a table listing how many jobs were created at these companies with no mechanism for relative comparison. Does anyone know of existing evidence to support this claim?
- ugabugawoowop 10y agothis study is bullshit, don't bother
- TuringNYC 10y agoThe irony here: Some people see studies like this and think, wow, think of how much we'd lose if we didnt let in immigrants. Our economy would be smaller, we'd have fewer jobs, etc. Other people see studies like this and think, wow, only us locals should own, run, and be employed by these Billion-Dollar Startups. Bannon has explicitly noted this as a goal!
- sneak 10y agoThis sense of entitlement due to physical proximity of birthplace is completely arbitrary, ridiculous, and counterproductive. Discriminating on nationality (which most had zero choice in, and was decided for them at birth) is the same as discriminating based on skin color or biological sex. It's just standard anticompetitive in-group/out-group fear-driven nonsense.
- DarkKomunalec 10y agoBut companies use anti-competitive practices to their great advantage...
- unethical_ban 10y agoDo you argue that culture and community can never have a geographically component?
- sneak 10y agoNot at all, but using force to prohibit people from traveling and participating in any culture they wish to peacefully interact in is ridiculous.
- halomru 10y agoIt's not about birthplace. People mostly don't care where the baby was born, they care how it was raised. It's really about culture. Birthplace, nationality and skin color just happen to be good indicators for culture.
- moduspol 10y ago
- partiallypro 10y agoThis is true but it needs perspective, and I am by no means anti-immigrant. I'm actually a pretty open border person, and am 100% against Trump's proposals (though perhaps there are some instances of H1B being abuse [see Disney].) However, this study should have a big caveat, for starters there are significantly more tax benefits for starting a business if you are an immigrant. Secondly, immigrants don't have entrenched interests or preoccupations that would otherwise give them a very high opportunity cost to starting their own business. So the start-up industry is a bit skewed in favor of immigrants naturally. I would love for us to equal the playing field, not by blocking immigrants, but by leveling the field on tax benefits and subsidies (ideally getting rid of subsidies and flattening the structure) and have reforms that lower the opportunity cost of all Americans that allows them to start their own business. There are way more reforms needed too outside of that, which everyone already has to deal with in regards to starting a business. So, imo, the complaint or point here shouldn't be that immigrants are better, or Americans are worse or there's only so much of the pie etc...it should be that we need reforms that makes it easier for everyone to start a business.
- timewarrior 10y agoCan you please share the details on the tax benefits? I am an immigrant and have started and sold companies and I didn't find any tax benefits.
- partiallypro 10y agoI should clarify, there's no -direct- tax benefits. It's largely to do with capital (immigrants generally pool capital better) which they can write off for years. Most Americans don't put up as much personal capital. There are also grant programs and guaranteed loans which immigrants can utilize which regular citizens generally don't have access to. Though on a whole the raising of capital is similar.
- hn_throwaway_99 10y ago> for starters there are significantly more tax benefits for starting a business if you are an immigrant. What, specifically, are you referring to here? I think a pretty easy explanation for the difference is that, almost by definition, if you are an immigrant you are someone who is uncomfortable with the status quo, and you are going to take a considerable risk to change it. It's not surprising those people would also be more inclined to be an entrepreneur than your average person.
- pascalxus 10y agoPersons with Brown eyes founded 51% [XX%] of Billion-Dollar Startups.
- rs1234 10y agoA bunch of folks on this forum love to bash the H1B visa. But that visa is not so new - this is how America has always filled her need for labor. Please take a few moments to read about "indentured servants" - immigrants from Britain and other parts of Europe who came to the US in 1800s. They were required to serve 5 to 7 years working in fields. After that they were given land and free to work for themselves. The H1B visa has similarities. Guess what is the duration of stay for a H1B visa? 6 years. During this time they are pretty much tied to the company that sponsored their visa. After that they are given the green card, which lets them work for any company. http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Indentured_Servants_in_Colonial_Virginia http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Indentured_Servants_in_C...
- bankim 10y ago> After that they are given the green card, which lets them work for any company. Not for Indians, like me, who are waiting in line for 10+ years due to per country cap.
- dragonwriter 10y agoWait, are you seriously, non-ironically using the similarity of the H-1B to indentured servitude as your basis for suggesting that people are wrong to bash the H-1B?
- rs1234 10y agoYes. I am non-ironically suggesting exactly that. Indentured servitude emerged as a solution to a socio-economic need in a bygone era, like the H1B does now. Neither is a perfect system, and all stakeholders concerned - the company, the employee, competing employees, society - get some benefits, some pain. But overall, American society is the net beneficiary of the education, skills, and entrepreneurial drive that immigrants bring with them (circling back to the original topic). Want proof? Look at the America today that was built by the ex-indentured servants and their descendants.
- int_19h 10y ago
- capocannoniere 10y agoI assume what they really mean by Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups is that 51% of $1B+ U.S. startups have at least one immigrant founder, right? (as opposed to 51% of unicorn founders are immigrants)
- icu 10y agoFrom what I've read of the report, the 51% were all 100% legal immigrants. Therefore I'm wondering what exactly is the news story here? Would the Wall Street Journal really lead with a headline "Legal Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups"? I really doubt it... and think the title is disingenuous because it implies the notion that all immigration is good. I don't buy that line of reasoning and I haven't heard any compelling arguments or seen any verifiable data to back that up. I do think that America--and indeed any country--should allow for, and advocate, that the best and brightest from around the world be allowed to legally immigrate. But I agree with what capocannoniere is implying, that no one builds that kind of success alone.
- dragonwriter 10y ago> From what I've read of the report, the 51% were all 100% legal immigrants. Anti-immigrant policies, including ones sold on rhetoric about illegal immigration, often include changes to reduce levels of legal immigration or erect new cosrs and/or procedural obstacles to it, so that people who were legal immigrants under the old system would be prevented or discouraged from legal immigration under the new system.
- icu 10y agoI'm not aware of this being a variable worth considering. Can you please give me some specific examples so as to sway my opinion?
- dragonwriter 10y agoTwo example policies (chosen because they were the first two in a Google search, and show contrasting approaches to the general issue, not, e.g., because of any special relevance of the two institutions): http://registrar.calpoly.edu/content/stu_info/credit_byexam http://registrar.calpoly.edu/content/stu_info/credit_byexam http://admissions.utah.edu/apply/special-credit/challenge-a-course-for-credit.php http://admissions.utah.edu/apply/special-credit/challenge-a-...
- hvmonk 10y agoWho exactly is not an immigrant in the states? If one traverse lineage of any of these so called "non-immigrants", within 3-4 generations one will see they were an immigrant too.
- TheGirondin 10y agoAnyone who was born in the US is not an immigrant.
- virtuabhi 10y agoFor the people saying why an article from 2016 is on the front page, here is why this issue is still relevant: "Wilders understands that culture and demographics are our destiny. We can't restore our civilization with somebody else's babies." - Congressman Steve King, Republican Iowa, 12th March, https://twitter.com/SteveKingIA/status/840980755236999169 https://twitter.com/SteveKingIA/status/840980755236999169
- xname2 10y agoHow about Canada? They have a point system. Should they have even a higher percentage?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- DarkKomunalec 10y agoNow that we know immigrants are better businesspeople than those US-born, the next logical step is to find out which immigrants are the best, and preferentially allow those...
- ugabugawoowop 10y agoso since when wsj compares legal immigrants to illegal immigrants, there is bias right there.
- iconjack 10y agoNone from Iran, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Sudan or Yemen.
- akhilcacharya 10y agoYou mean like Steve Job's biological father, who was/is a business owner in America?
- camus2 10y ago> You mean like Steve Job's biological father, who was/is a business owner in America? You mean like his father who abandoned him?
- akhilcacharya 10y agoDoesn't change his ancestry.
- camus2 10y ago> Doesn't change his ancestry. Doesn't change the fact that Jobs was an american citizen, not an immigrant.
- akhilcacharya 10y ago...because of birthright citizenship ...that the same people oppose
- armenarmen 10y agoBefore Syria was a failed state.
- rat87 10y agohttps://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-most-successful-entrepreneurs-with-Iranian-roots https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-most-successful-entreprene... Many do come from Iran
- ralmidani 10y agoI'm appalled by the need for statistics showing how "useful" immigrants are. Combating xenophobia should be a moral issue, not a utilitarian one. I understand some people will not be swayed by moral arguments, but society doesn't seem to try anymore. Utilitarian arguments have become the default.
- edblarney 10y ago"Combating xenophobia should be a moral issue, not a utilitarian one." Equating 'pro immigration' with 'morality' is the rather problematic basis of your statement. Many countries (most, in fact) do just fine without large scale immigration policies. Many nations with immigration are struggling to cope. Moreover, there are serious flaws with US immigration policy such that one could be opposed to it on that basis. Very, very few people 'hate immigrants'. But significant numbers of people think it's inappropriate to have people sneaking across the border, without documentation or status, and others just don't support large scale immigration, or perhaps have other criteria.
- kolbe 10y agoWhen merely being a person gives you rights to government-issued finite resources, it has to be a utilitarian argument.
- atomi 10y agoYou need to be a lawful permanent resident to qualify for any federal public benefits.
- kolbe 10y agoTell that to the emergency care centers that aren't allowed to turn away anyone or else they will not receive medicare reimbursements.
- atomi 10y agoThat is literally the least we can do. Or would you rather we deny emergency medical treatment and let people just die? They do pay sales taxes, rent payments (they have to live somewhere) that go towards property taxes and the majority also pay into social security which they will never qualify for. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrants-are-bolstering-social-security-with-billions.html http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrant... And by the way, many have kids that are Americans by birthright. So, I'm not sure what the benefit is to scapegoating the undocumented immigrant labor class. Maybe you can answer that.
- randyrand 10y agowhich of those were illegal immigrants? isn't tha particularly what trump wants to stop?
- eugeneionesco 10y agoHow many of them were illegal immigrants? Can't read the article because it's behind a paywall for me.
- akhilcacharya 10y agoWhy does it matter?
- artursapek 10y agoBecause most of the anger at Trump and his admin has been around their plan for deportation of criminal illegal aliens
- akhilcacharya 10y agoAnd yet people all across the country protested at airports a few weeks ago...
- artursapek 10y agoWell sure, because that travel ban was ridiculous. I'm just saying most of the time "Trump" and "immigration" are mentioned together it's regarding the southern border, not ME immigration.
- rat87 10y agoIt shouldn't be. Unauthorized immigrants face the most immediate danger due to the law but the Trump administration is hostile to legal immigration as well. They're seeking to decrease legal immigration and considerimg an executive order to deport legal immigrants for using welfare. They are trying to ban by executive order legal immigration from arbitrary Muslim majority countries and all refugees (possibly temporarily but I expect them to try to extend it). Steve Bannon sees the number of asian CEOs (which he greatly overestimates) as a bad thing.
- DodgyEggplant 10y agoA 250 years study found that immigrants and their descendants founded 100% of any U.S. business
- kingmanaz 10y ago"Immigrants" also destroyed Southern California. Try making distinctions.
- Mikeb85 10y agoGood study and all, but I think it misses the point of the current sentiment in the US. Regardless, yes, immigrants are more likely to found businesses than natives. Whether or not their businesses become billion dollar startups because of their efforts or venture capitalists is another question, but yes, they help the economy (As much as those who are a drag on it? Who knows). I wrote a lengthy post about the effects of immigration recently, so here's I'll just focus on the issue of human capital. Immigration creates a situation for rich countries to be able to draw from a much larger pool of talent than they otherwise would since they take talent from other countries. This is a great situation for the host country, and devastates developing economies. It's basically colonialism all over, except instead of stealing physical commodities you're stealing human capital. Relevant article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_capital_flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_capital_flight And of course, there are negative effects in the host country, namely that there's more competition for jobs, which can drive wages down, eliminate some jobs for natives altogether, etc... The hope is that this effect is offset by the job creation effect, sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. The US rust belt certainly doesn't seem to be gaining much, but other areas are. Anyhow, the whole point of this is that there's well known pros and cons to immigration. It's not all pro, nor all con. You need to ask exactly what you want the end-game to be - not just for the US, but for the world. Human capital flight is the single biggest obstacle to development for the third world. At the same time, it allows the west to gather all the brightest minds in the world to maintain its hegemony. What's more important - maintaining a dominant place in the world, or more equal development that doesn't leave anyone behind? (I mean, I know the answer - we're willing to destroy countries who go against western hegemony and simply absorb the migrants)
- VikingCoder 10y ago> Human capital flight is the single biggest obstacle to development for the third world. Citation needed.
- Mikeb85 10y agoThere's a million studies done about it. Also, the Wiki link I posted contained lots of links and references. Anyhow, here's one: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTAFRREGTOPTEIA/Resources/human_cap.pdf http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTAFRREGTOPTEIA/Resource... Quote from it: Weakness in human capital and particularly skill deficiency is a drag on investment and growth in Africa. Progress in overcoming shortages of skilled and trained manpower seems to be disappointingly slow, despite substantial resources devoted by both governments and donors to this effort during the last three decades (OED, 1994). This deficiency is sustained at the same time that Africa is losing a very significant proportion of its skilled and professional manpower to other markets and increasingly depending on expatriates for many vital functions. Edit - here's another: http://www.sesric.org/files/article/491.pdf http://www.sesric.org/files/article/491.pdf Relevant quotes: OIC countries face multiple challenges in achieving their development goals and reducing the gap with developed countries; one of the main challenges is the plight of human capital flight or what is known as brain drain. In recent times, brain drain has been exacerbated by globalization which has increased people mobility across country boundaries (see Iredale, 2001; Shenkar, 2001; Stalker, 2000). Furthermore, the internationalization of professions and professional labor market has led to an increase in the level of mobility and thus brain drain as documented in the works of Carr et al. (2005) and Iredale (2001) Like I said, this is a well known, well understood phenomenon. Hell, a generation ago the Canadian government was trying to stop brain drain to the US since it was a drag on growth. Edit2 http://web.pop.psu.edu/projects/help_archive/help.pop.psu.edu/data-collections/new-immigrant-survey/P08_Rosenzweig.pdf http://web.pop.psu.edu/projects/help_archive/help.pop.psu.ed... A little more academic (ie. more math-y and economics-y).
- drumttocs8 10y agoWouldn't it be more useful to see the percentage of total startups- and even better, the percentage of GDP created by these startups? That would seem to include key measures such as job creation, etc. Simply measuring the percentage of giant companies doesn't seem as useful.
- notadoc 10y agoIf you go back far enough, immigrants or children of immigrants founded likely 99% of US companies. Is this really surprising given the US is a almost entirely a nation of immigrants?
- h4nkoslo 10y agoIt's fascinating to see how the people pushing this argument prioritize economic nationalism exactly to the extent it promotes open borders, and exactly no further.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ctdonath 10y agoFor the eleventy-millionth time: Most of those accused of being "anti-immigrant" aren't against immigrants, but are against illegal immigrants. There must be an orderly process to entry, primarily to prevent criminals & diseases, and also to keep the numbers assimilate-able. The headline alone seems designed to invoke consternation where none existed, or to construe a common position as anti-immigrant which isn't.
- dopamean 10y agoI have yet to see anyone prove how even illegal immigrants are a detriment to our country. Also, xenophobia is xenophobia. Let's say we actually got rid of all illegal immigrants. You really think the debate about immigration would end there?
- ctdonath 10y agoYes. ETA: I married an immigrant. Stop the imputation of "xenophobia".
- rat87 10y agoSo did Trump Hell he married multiple immigrants (And used undocumented polish workers to build Trump tower) He is still xenophobic He also told Jed Bush not to speak Spanish in public while his wife is raising their child bilingual.
- ctdonath 10y agoApparently we have different definitions of the word "xenophobic". Conversation won't get far until that difference is resolved.
- Cyph0n 10y agoSo the recent Muslim ban was anti-illegal immigrant? Hmm..
- 10y ago
- kolbe 10y agoI'd be careful with this information. It did not serve German Jews in the 30's very well to emphasize the fact that they had become important elements of media, finance and science. Instead of showing appreciation, there was a backlash by Germans who felt they were being excluded from these things. It's even easier to see how that same misguided victim sentiment could be applied to immigrants "taking" the opportunities to create and own tech from American.
- metaphorm 10y agoyour point is relevant but I think you're missing the conclusion that first comes to my mind. when dealing with revenge-driven mobs of ignorant bigots, there is NOT rational argument that can persuade them. this is implied by your statement and I agree. what is to be done though? the only historically proven thing a person in a potential victim class (such as my own Jewish grandparents) could do in those circumstances is flee for their lives. I hope that things never get to that point in America. We've already a few steps in the wrong direction though.
- kolbe 10y agoI'd personally start by not calling them racist bigots at every opportunity. They may have "started" this whole conflict, but they hold the cards. Until Fentanyl takes care of the problem for you, we should probably deprioritize fucking with them.
- frozenport 10y agoProof that immigrants are stealing our unicorn jobs!
- rebootthesystem 10y agoThis dovetails nicely into another discussion [1] I got tangled into because I don't view the world as the average HN user seems to. It's about the claim that the richest n% take-up the bulk of opportunities (or some versions thereof). The same HN readership who believes this narrative also gets on board with the idea that we need immigrants in order to innovate. If the latter is true it very much supports my claim that opportunity in the US has never been greater and that the rich are not keeping anyone from reaching for the stars. It also supports the idea that rising inequality has nothing to do with the rich doing things the rich do but rather a complex set of factors, ranging from education to lack of drive and motivation. Some choose to blame others (the rich) for their ailments instead of going after root causes. The latter is far more difficult and time consuming. Immigrants arrive at our shores devoid of these pre-conditions. Why, then, is it that they excel and thrive? Simple: Drive, motivation, dedication, commitment, grit and lack of victim mentality. This should come as no surprise to anyone who understands subjects such as competitive sports. Often the difference between athletes of similar physical capabilities is in their minds far more than anything else. Same characteristics I listed above: Drive, motivation, dedication, commitment and grit. A few months ago I could not dead-lift 325 lbs when just a few days earlier I had done 320. I could not get the damn thing off the ground. My trainer looked at me and said: "Dude, it's all in your head. Take five minutes and think about that". Minutes later I completed my set as if nothing had happened. If it is true that we need to "import" innovators and entrepreneurs this is a sign that our approach to education (and other areas) need a serious pivot. With over 300 million people this country should not need to import entrepreneurs or well qualified candidates. Tech companies would not be crying for qualified people if our educational system was doing a good job. How many high school kids graduate with a solid understanding of how business, money and finances work? Virtually none. Our kids graduate with, for the most part, a binary view of the world ahead: Enlist in the military or be a good employee for life. The vast majority of them have trouble calculating a tip at a restaurant and couldn't tell you what simple interest is if their life depended on it. They know more about Kim Kardashian than they do about business, finance, investment and career building. How can this be good for the US? And we blame the rich for a gap in equality? How about we stop living in fantasy and address real problems? Interestingly enough, another thread on HN today [2] echoes some of the issues with education as it pertains to opportunity. A quote I like from the current top comment: "At the same time, we have a public school system that after 18 years with a child...has not actually prepared them to get a job. That's borderline criminal IMHO." Clearly some understand the realities of where we are failing while others prefer the simpler path of blaming others for all problems. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13847775 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13847775 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13858508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13858508
- Steeeve 10y agoWait a second. You can come to the US, start a company, employ yourself, and support your own h1-b?
- shorodei 10y agoUsually, a VC or other American investor sponsors the visa. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/how-tech-startup-founders-are-hacking-immigration https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-10/how-tech-...
- pravula 10y agoNo. You cannot apply for your own H1B. This memo should be useful. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2010/H1B%20Employer-Employee%20Memo010810.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoran...
- trustfundbaby 10y agoincorrect. That changed recently https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-immigration-a-step-in-the-right-direction/2011/08/03/gIQA2bGgsI_story.html?utm_term=.8b051354c5fe https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-immigration-a-ste...
- rgovind 10y agoi.e. you can be both investor and employee in the company. But you have to run payroll which means company must be generating money or be VC funded
- notliketherest 10y ago*LEGAL immigrants.
- coder007 10y agoTo Read the Full Story, Subscribe or Sign In. No thanks!
- kingmanaz 10y agoPlace a moratorium on legal immigration. The economy is a means rather than an end, and, three-hundred-million people is more than enough for North America.
- somid3 10y agoTitle says it all. That is why the US is kicking immigrants out.
- jbverschoor 10y agoImmigrants founded 100% of U.S.
- bluthru 10y agoIf you want world prosperity this isn't a simple issue at all. Why should the richest country in the world get richer by taking the best and brightest who could have helped elevate their own countries? Isn't this just contributing to a world stratification of wealth?
- kakarot 10y agoYeah, to me it just seems like another way an unbalanced economy slides into alignment with the power rule of 20% of the world's population containing 80% of the wealth. It's not healthy to base your immigration policies on how financially well-off and easily gentrified each applicant is. Not healthy for anyone but the financial elite.
- sumedh 10y agoThe problem their own countries dont want to utilize their skills so those people seek a better future somewhere else.
- int_19h 10y agoPeople are not resources. They aren't being "taken", unless you're talking about literal kidnapping and forced labor here (which, I believe, last time happened during Operation Paperclip, if we're talking about US). They come to US, because they believe it is a better place for them. If they wanted to "help elevate their own countries", they'd stay there. Coercing them to do so (including indirectly by depriving them of the opportunity to make that choice in the first place) is unethical. Speaking as an immigrant myself, I don't believe my country wants me. It might want my skills and abilities, sure, but it seems to strongly dislike my liberal political views, and they can't have one without the other. So they get neither.
- kingmanaz 10y ago>Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups Curious if the overwhelmingly-Jewish editorialists at WSJ would likewise rationalize unlimited non-Jewish immigration to Israel based on spurious "greater good" economic arguments. Maybe there's something more important than the economy at stake when deciding the fate of a national inheritance?
- rat87 10y agoAmerica is a nation of immigrants. We haven't been an Anglo Saxon nation in a while and aren't a white nation. Israel is a homeland for Jewish refugees(and the Arabs that remained there after the independence war).
- mediocrejoker 10y agoThis article is from March, 2016
- EternalData 10y agoI would argue that the very act of immigration means you're getting a higher-than-average selection of a country's population. Immigrants, after all, are a self-selecting group. People who are willing to upend everything in their lives in order to better themselves and their families would seem, to me, to be quite well-suited for entrepreneurship. The other reality is that traditional means of economic ascendancy in countries are often restricted to immigrants. Best example I can think of is the non-acknowledgement of certain foreign degrees in America.
- vikiomega9 10y agoI was unable to get past the paywall (with the web option) but I'm wondering if race and inherent privilege that comes with it is considered in the study.
- mavdi 10y agoSo 49% were founded by native Americans?
- throwaway292939 10y agoOut of curiosity, how many of those immigrants were illegal?
- smdz 10y agoBy attracting and immigrating the best and brightest, the US actually does injustice towards its citizens. And then its also an unfair act against other countries. The other countries that send immigrants technically stay poorer and weaker - because their talent is gone!!! Make a choice - Do we want to keep pouring in the best and brightest from the globe - or Do we want to keep our citizens employed? - Can't have both in longer term. Keep it unsolved and something extreme might happen to resolve it.
- int_19h 10y ago> Keep it unsolved and something extreme might happen to resolve it. Why not speak openly about what you have in mind wrt "resolving it"?
- draw_down 10y agoI think immigrants are good even when they don't found billion dollar companies.
- jecjec 10y agoTherefore, we need unbridled in-migration of Hispanics and Arabs!
- dmode 10y agoThis is the link to the actual study http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Immigrants-and-Billion-Dollar-Startups.NFAP-Policy-Brief.March-2016.pdf http://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Immigrants-and-Bi... Indian immigrants seem to lead the pack, but it is still the tip of the iceberg. If the current shackles are taken off from Indian immigrants, I bet there will be way more entrepreneurs. I would love the calculate the impact on US GDP based on immigrants who are not allowed to start a company
- tapatio 10y agoWhen you have nothing to lose, you take large risks.
- bogomipz 10y agoI have an honest question as I was not familiar National Foundation for American Policy before today. Does anybody know how they are funded in general or who funded this study? From some cursory research I see that Stuart Anderson, the person behind the NFAP worked on the Hill in the INS Office of Policy and Planning during the first term of George W. Bush. And his organization now regularly releases studies on public policy. This kind of screams lobbyist to me or at least retained by lobbyists. I am not making any judgements on anything in the study or any statements about the current political climate I am just trying to read critically. I am curious to hear what other's might know about Stuart Anderson or the NFAP.
- xt_cube 10y agoThis argument is weak... In my humble opinion not only are we doing a terrible job at educating our youth; but we are also condemning large numbers of them to a live of poverty. Who is to say what our underprivileged youth could accomplish with the proper support and education? Yes, this country was built by immigrants; but things have changed, we must accept that. Long gone are the days of prosperity for all. I would argue that today, our system is failing large portions of the population and addressing these failures should be our top concern. The current environment of despair and hopelessness that suffocates many Americans makes it difficult to have a constructive dialog about immigration. Would you have this discussion in Flint, Michigan? Do homeless veterans have access to free Airbnb? Do aging Americans who on a daily basis must decide between food or medicine find this discussion fair? And you know I could go on and on... I realize that modernizing our infrastructure or fixing our education system are very hard problems, addressing poverty and restoring faith in the system will be even harder. And yes, bringing prosperity and hope to all seems almost impossible; but these aren't reasons not to try. My apologies for the rant; but I think many of the discussions around immigration fail to recognize that America is much more than the wealthy coasts. There is real suffering out there and we should be sympathetic to that and realize that despite our real or perceived cultural differences with the millions of disenfranchised Americans; this country is theirs too!
- outworlder 10y agoWhat does that have to do with the subject? I seem to have scored a critical miss on my reading check. Do you mean that there is an immigration problem in Flint, Michigan? This data answers a simple question: is immigration a net gain or loss for the economy? Data seems to indicate it is a net gain. Is it evenly distributed? It is indeed a real problem, with or without immigration.
- shas3 10y agoYour comment is premised on the notion that immigration vs. locals is a zero-sum game. It is not uniformly so. Restrictionists claim: "If fewer Mexicans, Indians, and Chinese came to the US, then American citizens would be better off." There frankly isn't compelling evidence that this will happen. The number of immigrants using up social services is minuscule and the amount of tax coming from 100s of thousands of H1Bs (and illegals/undocumenteds) is all going into social services used by veterans, American seniors, etc. On top of this, because immigrants are usually the cream of their own societies and/or have taken big risks coming to the US, themselves and their children contribute via starting new businesses, etc. This notion that immigration is part of a zero-sum game is likely flawed.
- shas3 10y agoThis article is from 2016.
- lumberjack 10y agoAll pretension aside, you cannot presume to publicly forment xenophobic sentiments against brown people, implying that they are all kinds of evil, while at the same time presuming to make yourself attractive to highly-skilled tech workers from all around the world. If you embolden racists, they will start harassing and attacking all kinds of non-white people and that includes, legal recidents from all around the world because frankly racists don't care.
- ice109 10y agofoment
- known 10y agoBehind every great fortune there is crime; https://qz.com/889524 https://qz.com/889524
- known 10y agoI'll grab software jobs; You should do menial jobs; This type of uncivilized Caste system will not work in USA https://qz.com/919782 https://qz.com/919782
- synicalx 10y agoI wonder what would have happened if they stayed in their own countries? Would they have built billion dollar or even million dollar businesses there as well? Would that have been of more benefit to said countries than allowing one of their best and brightest to "jump ship"?
- sauronlord 10y agoAnd "immigrants" killed over 99% of the native North American population with small pox and the like. We are all immigrants really. I agree with the spirit of what the article is about, but there is a serious Us vs. Them going on here that will not end well.
- Anarchonaut 10y agoNo one questions immigration. Conservatives complain about 'illegal immigration' believing that this would be the source of most criminal activity, ignoring that the 'war on drugs' is the real problem.
- martytheartiste 10y agoThe immigrants that started all of these companies including all of the immigrants that have started all of their businesses in the last 30 years that employ Americans...first let me say Thank You. Second.....someone should create a list off all of these companies, their geographic location, number of Americans (not family members) but number of Americans they employ, income, contributions to the communities etc. Once they have this list maybe each business can submit a small 2 minute video entitled I am an Immigrant and I employ ____ Americans. Then create a Website that has all of these videos....might want to censor some info to keep telemarketers from contacting these business owners. To draw attention to these businesses I'd gather up some of the funniest and well known comedians on a Ted Talk. After the comedians break the ice.....have some of the most successful business owners get up on stage an tell the World why they came to America! Why they fled their homeland.....etc......Might even include anything like their sons and daughters serve in the Military, Law Enforcement or local Hospitals. If they are doctors have some of their patients tell the world about how this doctor saved their life.