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I used to be hardcore windows guy... Then 10 years ago I got a mac. I never went back.. But what am I saving money for right now? To build a nice PC again.

I used to be hardcore windows guy... Then 10 years ago I got a mac. I never went back.. But what am I saving money for right now? To build a nice PC again. Mostly because of the exact reasons in the article. I have a fondness for apple... but they have definitely lost their way. First, they were a computer company driven by a man who loved computers ("first" here is the Jobs return era) ... then they became a Computer company who also made a phone. Then they became a computer company who also made a phone and a tablet. Then they became a phone company who also made computers and tablets. Now they are a phone company who presides over the death throws of an amazing operating system that is going to be killed off to make it more like a phone. The new "features" every cycle are more "lets put this phone feature on the desktop" It makes me sad, as a mac fan. The hardware is getting worse. The decisions are getting dumber every time. I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or similar connection, i have kids and animals, and the magsafe has saved a laptop more than once.. to remove something that was as core and identifiable a part of their computers was just a stupid move and served no purpose. They don't listen to the industry or the consumers anymore, they stick their fingers in their ears and pretend to know best. Jobs was hardheaded, but reasonable. Cook is trying to emulate the hardheadedness but fails to recognize the reasonability needed to balance that.

daxfohl 10y ago
Death throes, not death throws, fwiw.
mycall 10y ago
> I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or similar connection What about wireless charging? I see magsafe as deprecated and only Macbook air has it now.
- baobrain 10y ago
  Wireless charging is horribly inefficient...IIRC there aren't even any that go over 10W. Magsafe may be deprecated by Apple, but that's a step backwards in functionality. One cannot deny that using USB C for charging is inferior in terms of protecting the device.
  - elcritch 10y ago
    Thought the same thing, but then saw this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/branchusb/magneo-first-true-usb-c-magnetic-adapter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/branchusb/magneo-first-... Gotta say the idea of a single USB C adaptor carrying power, data, and having a general purpose mag-safe like adapter is pretty compelling.
    - OJFord 10y ago
      That looks massive though.
      - YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 10y ago
        Massive? .. there's no pleasing some folk.
        OJFord 10y ago
        Given it's intended to be a permanent fixture in the side of your laptop, at the size of a (keyboard) key I'd say it's pretty big, yes. Add that to the one-and-a-half key-sized optionally permanent part (unless you're going to buy one for each cable, it's fixed until you need the safety feature) and it's a huge thing sticking out of the side! To be honest, I question the usefulness anyway - I've pulled my Macbook Air off a table (accidentally) by it's MagSafe power cable before, and trying it deliberately now it only works with vertical movement. Side-to-side or directly 'out' it just moves my laptop, even as short & and sharp as I can. If I stepped directly on the cable it would be such a directly-out movement; if I tripped, a side-to-side one. Unless my laptop was positioned perfectly such that the MagSafe hung over the edge of the table, and I trod directly down, I can't imagine how it would have its intended effect. I use it all the time for un/plugging deliberately, but I can live without that, and as above with this Kickstarter product without buying several I'd have to leave the whole dongle plugged in anyway, so any deliberate dis/connection would be a normal un/plug motion.
        bartvk 10y ago
- KingMob 10y ago
  Wireless charging needs to be strangled in the crib. As long as we're burning carbons for power, we have no business charging wirelessly until it's as efficient as wired.
klurriplurrr 10y ago
> I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or similar connection Check this out: https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po...
- chx 10y ago
  Careful: BreakSafe is rated up to 60 watts (20 volts @ 3 amps), and has been designed and tested to meet USB-C power standards.
- mightybyte 10y ago
  I categorically refuse to pay more money to buy something to add on to an already overpriced laptop that sticks out from my computer's form factor and that should be built in. Fortunately for me I got a new laptop not long before this new abomination came out. If Apple doesn't correct this gigantic mistake, the next time I get a new laptop it won't be made by Apple.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    Man you would absolutely hate to work any job that requires a serial connection then. Because let me tell you about the serial-to-USB adapters I've used... I wish I had the luxury of saying that I categorically refuse to pay more for something that sticks out of my computer that I think should be built in.
    - fencepost 10y ago
      If those are permanently-emplaced USB to serial adapters and you have problems with reliability, I recommend checking out Digi.com for their "Serial Servers." We have a couple of customers who've been running faxes from VMs to external modems over Digi One SP units for more years than I care to think about, and they're quite simply rock solid.
    - photojosh 10y ago
      I do embedded dev; at any time I have 2-6 serial-USB adapters hooked up to my MBP. They are all plugged into an external 10 port USB hub though, would be a little harder to do it otherwise. Anyway, back to your point, I most certainly do NOT want DB-9 or DB-25 ports on my laptop. ;)
Clubber 10y ago
I'm in the same boat. I switched around 2008-2009 to jump on the iOS app wave, but am more interested in Windows since 10 and Azure. I still think their rMBP 15s are the all around the best you can buy. I haven't tried the track bar version yet though. Also, OS X (or whatever) on a rMBP is still great for surfing the web. The zoom with the trackpad is flawless.
- AsyncAwait 10y ago
  You can try it on any Mac with https://github.com/bikkelbroeders/TouchBarDemoApp https://github.com/bikkelbroeders/TouchBarDemoApp however the touch bar does not seem all that useful to me and I think that the previous model, (2015), is all around a better buy, higher performance CPUs, standard USB 3-A, MagSafe...
dualogy 10y ago
> I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or similar connection Not a big deal nowadays, my mid-2014 Thinkpad has a similar connection (it won't ever drag the laptop when pulled), I'd think most laptops should have such connectors by now, "mag-safe" or other?
- ralphie02 10y ago
  which adapter exactly are you referring to here? I have a 2015/2016 thinkpad yoga for work and I don't think it's the same/similar at all to the magsafe adapter. Magsafe comes off even with the gentlest, but firm, tug even at an angle. I can't say the same for my thinkpad
pyreal 10y ago
I switched to Mac at about the same time as you. I can't see myself ever going back to Windows but if Adobe ever ports their application suite to Linux, I'd switch immediately.
- rusk 10y ago
  I'm on a similar timeline as well. Thought I'd never go back, but have you checked out Windows 10? The gap has closed a lot.
  - ntsplnkv3 10y ago
    I think the gap has increased even more with Windows 10.
    - mathgeek 10y ago
      I can't agree here. Windows 8 was not usable as a web developer, for me. Windows 10 is something I don't mind using as my experimental box (I still use OSX for day-job tasks).
      - ntsplnkv3 10y ago
        Windows 8 was worse than Windows 10 which is worse than 7. I should have specified-to me Windows 8 and 10 are both poor, both much worse than 7. To be honest, I had an EASIER time with Windows 8 (company provided laptop) than Windows 10. Windows 7 was the pinnacle windows experience for me and it has gotten worse ever since.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        phaed 10y ago
        What about windows 7 was so great? The start menu? Windows 10 has a 5 second boot up time, most all annoyances anyone has online can be configured away, and it is insanely stable (haven't had it once crash on me yet).
bradgessler 10y ago
I too have become annoyed recently at really basic stuff not working in macOS, like I can't drag and drop a picture out of Photos app into Pixelmator to edit. In fact, dragging and dropping a picture out of Photos into any application is completely broken and doesn't work. Its as-if the Apple QA team no longer tests to make sure their applications play nice with each other in a way that has been fundamental to desktop computing since the desktop OS was invented.
- toyg 10y ago
  Photos overall is a trainwreck. Options are hidden and hard to find, anything beyond "tag this image with your auntie's name" is way harder than it should be... and this without ever mentioning the dreadful "I'll quit when I want to, not when you tell me to" backend process.
- euroclydon 10y ago
  Is it even possible to chose a photo out of your photo librry from a browser's file upload dialog? I don't think it is, when the photos are in iPhoto. How many steps does it take to get a picture off your camera, into iPhoto, then exported, and finally uploaded to Craigslist?
  - rusk 10y ago
    Photos should show up as an icon in the side-bar? Rather than navigating to the actual files I think you're meant to access them this way. It's a good idea and used to work better in my memory - these days it can be a bit finnicky to find the photo you want.
  - Angostura 10y ago
    Scroll down to the 'Media' section in the sidebar. Select 'Pictures' There you'll find all your pictures in Photos
  - stonewareslord 10y ago
    It is possible and very easy. Just drag the photo from iPhoto to the upload dialog.
rayiner 10y ago
Buy a breakable USB cable? I've had MacBooks for 10 years, and I'm ecstatic to see MagSafe gone. Apple chargers have always been shit, and Apple laptops have never been compatible with off the shelf battery packs. Moving to USB-C and detachable, replaceable cables, is a huge step forward. Also, what PC alternative has a MagSafe equivalent?
- anonymoushn 10y ago
  Can you recommend magsafe-like USB cable that works with 2016 MBPs? When I looked for something like this I found only a cable made for the 12" macbook that could not charge my machine.
  - dblohm7 10y ago
    I pledged on Kickstarter to receive a pair of these (still in manufacturing), but maybe they'd help? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/branchusb/magneo-first-true-usb-c-magnetic-adapter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/branchusb/magneo-first-...
- EduardoBautista 10y ago
  People complain that Apple uses proprietary ports. They ditched MagSafe for USB-C and people still complained.
  - yulaow 10y ago
    I think the magsafe was at the bottom of the list of "bad choice of proprietary ports by Apple"
    - brink 10y ago
      I can now charge my Macbook with the same cable I use to charge my phone. I can now charge my laptop from both sides. I can trickle charge my laptop in my car now. It's making my cable life so much simpler. Yes, I have other devices that have yet to catch up to the C spec, but with the leading laptop manufacturer pushing so hard for the C port; I don't think it'll be that long.
camus2 10y ago
I say the OS is getting worse, the quality of the software is nowhere near what it is used to be. It's clear that they need to put more effort and polish Mac OS. Apple laptops are still successful as for now, they sold wagons of the latest Macbook Pro, but it is not going to last if they don't fix the OS ASAP.
vram22 10y ago
>First, they were a computer company driven by a man who loved computers ("first" here is the Jobs return era) ... then they became a Computer company who also made a phone. Then they became a computer company who also made a phone and a tablet. Then they became a phone company who also made computers and tablets. >Now they are a phone company who presides over the death throws of an amazing operating system that is going to be killed off to make it more like a phone. The new "features" every cycle are more "lets put this phone feature on the desktop" I don't know much about this area, other than the little I have read, but didn't MS do somewhat the same thing - "lets put this phone feature on the desktop" - with Windows 8? Not sure if they reversed that in Windows 10. Interested to know.
- jackfoxy 10y ago
  Windows 8 was ridiculous, and one of the things that gave MS a big wake up call. Its now a different company. Windows 10 is leaps better in about every way than 8 (not without its own issues, of course). Disclosure: I am a MS MVP. MS will listen to me in almost every area I care about.
  - vram22 10y ago
    Interesting. Yes, though I've never used Win 8 (and don't want to), from the little I had read, it seemed like the idea of trying to merge the mobile and desktop paradigms was a bad idea from the start, and doomed to fail.
    - scholia 10y ago
      Windows 8 didn't merge the mobile and desktop paradigms, it put the mobile paradigm over the top of the desktop. The apps stuff (Windows Runtime) was actually quite well done for a first try, but it was unfamiliar to Win32 users and got in the way. (Only one click away, but people are impatient and resist change.) Windows 10 does an excellent job of merging apps and traditional programs, though it's not strictly correct to equate apps and mobile. Windows 10 is a mobile operating system that runs apps from an app store, but you can resize apps and run them seamlessly alongside traditional Win32 programs. You can still run Windows 10 in tablet (Windows 8/8.1) mode if you want to. I don't know anyone who does.
gozur88 10y ago
"death throes"
pessimizer 10y ago
> First, they were a computer company driven by a man who loved computers ("first" here is the Jobs return era) ... then they became a Computer company who also made a phone. You missed the most important stages in between: when they became a company that made cute, candy-colored computers that would match your Volkswagen New Beetle, then when they made a totally awesome mp3 player you could get to match it.
rimantas 10y ago
You know what fans (the real ones) do? They try to know more about the thing they are fans of, and to understand it. Your comment shows nothing of the kind.
- rusk 10y ago
  Sorry but who wants to be some lame "fan"? We want the best tool for the job, too get that job done and we're willing to pay for it. The tools are no longer up to scratch or functioning as expected and we are voicing our concern.
  - _ao789 10y ago
    I couldn't agree with you more on this statement. Said exactly as I feel.
  - rimantas 10y ago
    People declaring they are fans? Did you even read the comment I was replying to? > The tools are no longer up to scratch or functioning as > expected and we are voicing our concern. That's bullshit and you know it.
    - rusk 10y ago
      I'm sorry I re-read GP and I'm still unclear what you're talking about. For as long as I've been using Apple it has always been because of the superior experience. Its with regret I have to say I am let down by (in particular) their software quality recently. I've gotten to the point where I'm fairly certain my next phone won't be an iPhone. I can't ... understand your line of reasoning .. that as an Apple user that means I should have some loyalty to them if what they're selling me doesn't fulfil my needs. I'm really interested in knowing where you're coming from but your snarky tone is making that difficult.
    - dang 10y ago
      We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines and ignoring our request to stop.
brandall10 10y ago
FWIW, I have a 2016 13" nTB and have had a few trip over the power cord incidents. The USB-C cord snaps right out almost like magsafe for me... the laptop will get a nice tug and move an inch, but it comes out even on a slick countertop.
- fpoling 10y ago
  I had similar experience with MacBook 2015. Yes, the laptop did move, but that was less than 2" before the cable detached.
  - greenknight 10y ago
    The original magsafe design ( http://www.iclarified.com/images/news/9014/31392/31392-500.jpg http://www.iclarified.com/images/news/9014/31392/31392-500.j... ) was the most ideal desing out of all of them in my opinion... I have seen macbooks slide about 20-30cm with the new designs without the magsafe connector disengaging, all because the of direction of pull. The only problem was that the original magsafe design was prone to fraying. and probably didn't look as sexy as having the cord at a right angle to the computer.
ozmbie 10y ago
Apple is a still computer company, because Phones ARE computers. For the majority of the population in developed countries, and almost all of the population of developing countries, smartphones are the only computer people have or need. I agree that Apple have shifted focus away from "making tools for people to create things and solve problems" towards consumption-oriented mobile devices. But those devices are still computers, and they're wildly successful. If Apple devoted their focus to products in proportion to their revenue, then they would be putting 12x as much effort into the iPhone than they would for the entire Mac lineup.
- mooreds 10y ago
  > If Apple devoted their focus to products in proportion to their revenue, then they would be putting 12x as much effort into the iPhone than they would for the entire Mac lineup. True. However, creators and developers (who, in my experience, almost always use a desktop) are important for the iOS platform. Someone has to write those native apps. Therefore it doesn't make sense to ignore them for too long.
  - cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
    Developers flock to the platform with more users. Which means Apple actually does need to focus on iOS to get more people to keep using mac. Those of us who are ios developers will keep bitching about it but have no alternative so will keep on using macs as long as their iOS ecosystem is doing great.
    - mgamache 10y ago
      While this is generally true, it's a little more nuanced. For example: Android has a larger market share (by a lot globally), but apps are frequently developed for iOS first. Why? Because it's easier. Device fragmentation plays a large role in that, but part of the cost of the project is dealing with the development ecosystem (good or bad). As Apple makes the development less appealing (because of sub standard hardware / OSX) android will seem like a better option.
k-mcgrady 10y ago
>> The new "features" every cycle are more "lets put this phone feature on the desktop" What is it missing? It's been a while since I really wanted a feature in the desktop OS. All of the 'phone' features (besides launchpad) have made my life a lot easier (continuity, handoff, notification centre, even Siri from time to time).
- ThomPete 10y ago
  I don't miss features I just miss refinement. As a app developer who wanted to build an app which challenged what a mac can do with regards to productivity I had to basically leave the mac app store because they made it impossible for me to make it work in Sandbox mode.
- Lio 10y ago
  It's missing high performance graphics drivers in the form of either openGL or Metal. It's missing proper support for eGPU cards, which is currently the only way to add a high performance GPU to any currently produced Mac. Blender, for instance, can't even make use of th GPU in my MacBook Pro because the openCL support in macOS is not good enough.
  - eanzenberg 10y ago
    Mac laptops never had that.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- lokedhs 10y ago
  Shipping Unix tools (like Bash) from this decade would be a start. Trying to get modern Unix software to run on OSX is getting more and more painful. Since development is the main activity I do on a laptop, this is quite important.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    UNIX being part of OS X is a historical accident, Apple just wanted to save themselves from Copland's failure.
JKCalhoun 10y ago
> Then they became a phone company who also made computers and tablets. You're describing the changing world we're living in. Apple is merely reflecting it.
tessierashpool 10y ago
> Now they are a phone company who presides over the death throws of an amazing operating system that is going to be killed off to make it more like a phone. The new "features" every cycle are more "lets put this phone feature on the desktop" it's death throes.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
KSS42 10y ago
Recall that Apple Computer Inc became Apple Inc January 2007.
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  Under Steve Jobs's leadership, no less.
powerapple 10y ago
Agree. Have you noticed that their phones also suck now? I am locked in their eco system, but I can tell, the quality of software is just not there any more.
adventured 10y ago
> Cook is trying to emulate the hardheadedness but fails to recognize the reasonability needed to balance that. I don't think Cook is hardheaded. I think he has no idea how to run a product company. Pretty much everyone from the average HN user to Larry Ellison predicted this outcome. Cook is logistics / supply chain etc, Ballmer was sales, neither had any business at the top of their respective companies. Jobs did it on purpose, in my opinion, because he believed the single most important function initially was to keep Apple running smoothly and to complete the iPhone boom (ie the big product for the next decade was already in place). The only question is how long Apple will stay in the Cook era before getting a product leader replacement.
chm 10y ago
My experience with hardware that comes pre-loaded with Windows is that it is utter crap. Or so it seems - it works fine once you remove Windows and install Linux for example. I have kept none of my previous Windows machines. None. They all decay so fast, BSODs after months of use, constant reboots just because things don't act right, general instability, sluggishness, etc. I have only recently built myself a new Linux tower. Much more pleasant. OTOH, ALL Apple hardware that I have bought (multiple iPads, iPhones, iPods, Macbook Pros, iMacs) still works as advertised and is in good shape (I always buy and use Apple Care). I have just recently begun to use my Linux desktop more because my 2009 MBP is starting to feel a bit sluggish. People can whine all they want about Apple (I personally will not buy the new MBPs, wait until next year's model). The truth is they've set the bar so high that anything less than perfection (which IMO is mostly what they gave us during the last decade) is seen as unacceptable. The same cannot be said of Windows - at least according to my experience since Windows 95. I recently bought a brand new SSD and a license for Windows 10. One day after installation, Windows crashed and had to "repair" itself. To be fair, it has been running flawlessly since.
- elbrian 10y ago
  Do you just roll into WalMart and buy the first $300 HP you see? That's literally the only way I can see your anecdotal experience being truthful. The PC marketplace is open, like the Android one. There's a lot of cruft to sift through, but it should only take about 1-2 hours of research to find the best laptop at any given time and any given price range for any given use-case.
  - chm 10y ago
    No. ~1200 PCs and laptops. I understand that it seems like I'm exaggerating. I'm not. Either I have been incredibly unlucky (or stupid in my choices), or Mac hardware is of better quality. But you're right that it's anecdotal.
_pmf_ 10y ago
> Jobs was hardheaded, but reasonable. Cook is trying to emulate the hardheadedness but fails to recognize the reasonability needed to balance that. I think we can be sure that under Jobs, they would not be in a situation where you cannot charge the current iPhone model with the current MacBook without a dongle. "Oh, it's not a dongle, it's just a cable." -> Get out of my face.
nkkollaw 10y ago
> I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or similar connection Do Windows laptops have it, or you're going to use a 2014 MacBook Air forever..?
kstenerud 10y ago
Good riddance to magsafe. I've had two laptops become unusable because the magsafe connection became flaky and wouldn't charge unless I fiddled with it until it rested just so (even contact cleaner wouldn't help). There was no hope of it lasting more than a few hours without constant tending by me to get the connection just right again. I've never in my life had any other computer that failed in that way. Moving to USB-C was the right choice. Charge cable goes bad? Buy another one for $15. Everything else is spot on. Apple quality is fast going downhill.
rebootthesystem 10y ago
Many years ago, before the age of the iPhone, I had a meeting with about thirty people at Apple headquarters at the request of Steve Jobs. That was my very first visit to Apple HQ. After half a day of conversations, as we left the building, my very first words to my team were: "Apple Computer is no more. This is a marketing company. They might as well stick their logo on washing machines, microwaves and refrigerators. They know how to market them to be cool and they'll sell millions of them" Then came the iPhone. And, yeah, they could have filled homes with Apple appliances. Not sure why they didn't go there. So easy. Not saying it would have been right, but they had the opening and the mindless following to make every home "Apple Cool".
darpa_escapee 10y ago
> the consumers anymore, they stick their fingers in their ears and pretend to know best. They are though. Consumers will pay for hardware with batteries that die after a year and a half. They'll pay for vendor-lock in and to be locked into the walled garden experience. They'll pay for hardware that will be locked out of the walled garden and unsupported by vendor updates after 4-5 years. They'll pay extra for accessories that give basic functionality to their electronics. They'll pay a massive premium for accessories that are subpar for their asking price if they're endorsed by celebrities. I'm not a fan of newer Apple hardware and software, but we're in the minority.

daxfohl 10y ago

Death throes, not death throws, fwiw.

mycall 10y ago

> I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or similar connection What about wireless charging? I see magsafe as deprecated and only Macbook air has it now.

baobrain 10y ago
Wireless charging is horribly inefficient...IIRC there aren't even any that go over 10W. Magsafe may be deprecated by Apple, but that's a step backwards in functionality. One cannot deny that using USB C for charging is inferior in terms of protecting the device.
- elcritch 10y ago
  Thought the same thing, but then saw this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/branchusb/magneo-first-true-usb-c-magnetic-adapter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/branchusb/magneo-first-... Gotta say the idea of a single USB C adaptor carrying power, data, and having a general purpose mag-safe like adapter is pretty compelling.
  - OJFord 10y ago
    That looks massive though.
    - YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 10y ago
      Massive? .. there's no pleasing some folk.
      - OJFord 10y ago
        Given it's intended to be a permanent fixture in the side of your laptop, at the size of a (keyboard) key I'd say it's pretty big, yes. Add that to the one-and-a-half key-sized optionally permanent part (unless you're going to buy one for each cable, it's fixed until you need the safety feature) and it's a huge thing sticking out of the side! To be honest, I question the usefulness anyway - I've pulled my Macbook Air off a table (accidentally) by it's MagSafe power cable before, and trying it deliberately now it only works with vertical movement. Side-to-side or directly 'out' it just moves my laptop, even as short & and sharp as I can. If I stepped directly on the cable it would be such a directly-out movement; if I tripped, a side-to-side one. Unless my laptop was positioned perfectly such that the MagSafe hung over the edge of the table, and I trod directly down, I can't imagine how it would have its intended effect. I use it all the time for un/plugging deliberately, but I can live without that, and as above with this Kickstarter product without buying several I'd have to leave the whole dongle plugged in anyway, so any deliberate dis/connection would be a normal un/plug motion.
        bartvk 10y ago
KingMob 10y ago
Wireless charging needs to be strangled in the crib. As long as we're burning carbons for power, we have no business charging wirelessly until it's as efficient as wired.

klurriplurrr 10y ago

> I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or similar connection Check this out: https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po...

chx 10y ago
Careful: BreakSafe is rated up to 60 watts (20 volts @ 3 amps), and has been designed and tested to meet USB-C power standards.
mightybyte 10y ago
I categorically refuse to pay more money to buy something to add on to an already overpriced laptop that sticks out from my computer's form factor and that should be built in. Fortunately for me I got a new laptop not long before this new abomination came out. If Apple doesn't correct this gigantic mistake, the next time I get a new laptop it won't be made by Apple.
- freehunter 10y ago
  Man you would absolutely hate to work any job that requires a serial connection then. Because let me tell you about the serial-to-USB adapters I've used... I wish I had the luxury of saying that I categorically refuse to pay more for something that sticks out of my computer that I think should be built in.
  - fencepost 10y ago
    If those are permanently-emplaced USB to serial adapters and you have problems with reliability, I recommend checking out Digi.com for their "Serial Servers." We have a couple of customers who've been running faxes from VMs to external modems over Digi One SP units for more years than I care to think about, and they're quite simply rock solid.
  - photojosh 10y ago
    I do embedded dev; at any time I have 2-6 serial-USB adapters hooked up to my MBP. They are all plugged into an external 10 port USB hub though, would be a little harder to do it otherwise. Anyway, back to your point, I most certainly do NOT want DB-9 or DB-25 ports on my laptop. ;)

Clubber 10y ago

I'm in the same boat. I switched around 2008-2009 to jump on the iOS app wave, but am more interested in Windows since 10 and Azure. I still think their rMBP 15s are the all around the best you can buy. I haven't tried the track bar version yet though. Also, OS X (or whatever) on a rMBP is still great for surfing the web. The zoom with the trackpad is flawless.

AsyncAwait 10y ago
You can try it on any Mac with https://github.com/bikkelbroeders/TouchBarDemoApp https://github.com/bikkelbroeders/TouchBarDemoApp however the touch bar does not seem all that useful to me and I think that the previous model, (2015), is all around a better buy, higher performance CPUs, standard USB 3-A, MagSafe...

dualogy 10y ago

> I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or similar connection Not a big deal nowadays, my mid-2014 Thinkpad has a similar connection (it won't ever drag the laptop when pulled), I'd think most laptops should have such connectors by now, "mag-safe" or other?

ralphie02 10y ago
which adapter exactly are you referring to here? I have a 2015/2016 thinkpad yoga for work and I don't think it's the same/similar at all to the magsafe adapter. Magsafe comes off even with the gentlest, but firm, tug even at an angle. I can't say the same for my thinkpad

pyreal 10y ago

I switched to Mac at about the same time as you. I can't see myself ever going back to Windows but if Adobe ever ports their application suite to Linux, I'd switch immediately.

rusk 10y ago
I'm on a similar timeline as well. Thought I'd never go back, but have you checked out Windows 10? The gap has closed a lot.
- ntsplnkv3 10y ago
  I think the gap has increased even more with Windows 10.
  - mathgeek 10y ago
    I can't agree here. Windows 8 was not usable as a web developer, for me. Windows 10 is something I don't mind using as my experimental box (I still use OSX for day-job tasks).
    - ntsplnkv3 10y ago
      Windows 8 was worse than Windows 10 which is worse than 7. I should have specified-to me Windows 8 and 10 are both poor, both much worse than 7. To be honest, I had an EASIER time with Windows 8 (company provided laptop) than Windows 10. Windows 7 was the pinnacle windows experience for me and it has gotten worse ever since.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - phaed 10y ago
        What about windows 7 was so great? The start menu? Windows 10 has a 5 second boot up time, most all annoyances anyone has online can be configured away, and it is insanely stable (haven't had it once crash on me yet).

bradgessler 10y ago

I too have become annoyed recently at really basic stuff not working in macOS, like I can't drag and drop a picture out of Photos app into Pixelmator to edit. In fact, dragging and dropping a picture out of Photos into any application is completely broken and doesn't work. Its as-if the Apple QA team no longer tests to make sure their applications play nice with each other in a way that has been fundamental to desktop computing since the desktop OS was invented.

toyg 10y ago
Photos overall is a trainwreck. Options are hidden and hard to find, anything beyond "tag this image with your auntie's name" is way harder than it should be... and this without ever mentioning the dreadful "I'll quit when I want to, not when you tell me to" backend process.
euroclydon 10y ago
Is it even possible to chose a photo out of your photo librry from a browser's file upload dialog? I don't think it is, when the photos are in iPhoto. How many steps does it take to get a picture off your camera, into iPhoto, then exported, and finally uploaded to Craigslist?
- rusk 10y ago
  Photos should show up as an icon in the side-bar? Rather than navigating to the actual files I think you're meant to access them this way. It's a good idea and used to work better in my memory - these days it can be a bit finnicky to find the photo you want.
- Angostura 10y ago
  Scroll down to the 'Media' section in the sidebar. Select 'Pictures' There you'll find all your pictures in Photos
- stonewareslord 10y ago
  It is possible and very easy. Just drag the photo from iPhoto to the upload dialog.

rayiner 10y ago

Buy a breakable USB cable? I've had MacBooks for 10 years, and I'm ecstatic to see MagSafe gone. Apple chargers have always been shit, and Apple laptops have never been compatible with off the shelf battery packs. Moving to USB-C and detachable, replaceable cables, is a huge step forward. Also, what PC alternative has a MagSafe equivalent?

anonymoushn 10y ago
Can you recommend magsafe-like USB cable that works with 2016 MBPs? When I looked for something like this I found only a cable made for the 12" macbook that could not charge my machine.
- dblohm7 10y ago
  I pledged on Kickstarter to receive a pair of these (still in manufacturing), but maybe they'd help? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/branchusb/magneo-first-true-usb-c-magnetic-adapter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/branchusb/magneo-first-...
EduardoBautista 10y ago
People complain that Apple uses proprietary ports. They ditched MagSafe for USB-C and people still complained.
- yulaow 10y ago
  I think the magsafe was at the bottom of the list of "bad choice of proprietary ports by Apple"
  - brink 10y ago
    I can now charge my Macbook with the same cable I use to charge my phone. I can now charge my laptop from both sides. I can trickle charge my laptop in my car now. It's making my cable life so much simpler. Yes, I have other devices that have yet to catch up to the C spec, but with the leading laptop manufacturer pushing so hard for the C port; I don't think it'll be that long.

camus2 10y ago

I say the OS is getting worse, the quality of the software is nowhere near what it is used to be. It's clear that they need to put more effort and polish Mac OS. Apple laptops are still successful as for now, they sold wagons of the latest Macbook Pro, but it is not going to last if they don't fix the OS ASAP.

vram22 10y ago

>First, they were a computer company driven by a man who loved computers ("first" here is the Jobs return era) ... then they became a Computer company who also made a phone. Then they became a computer company who also made a phone and a tablet. Then they became a phone company who also made computers and tablets. >Now they are a phone company who presides over the death throws of an amazing operating system that is going to be killed off to make it more like a phone. The new "features" every cycle are more "lets put this phone feature on the desktop" I don't know much about this area, other than the little I have read, but didn't MS do somewhat the same thing - "lets put this phone feature on the desktop" - with Windows 8? Not sure if they reversed that in Windows 10. Interested to know.

jackfoxy 10y ago
Windows 8 was ridiculous, and one of the things that gave MS a big wake up call. Its now a different company. Windows 10 is leaps better in about every way than 8 (not without its own issues, of course). Disclosure: I am a MS MVP. MS will listen to me in almost every area I care about.
- vram22 10y ago
  Interesting. Yes, though I've never used Win 8 (and don't want to), from the little I had read, it seemed like the idea of trying to merge the mobile and desktop paradigms was a bad idea from the start, and doomed to fail.
  - scholia 10y ago
    Windows 8 didn't merge the mobile and desktop paradigms, it put the mobile paradigm over the top of the desktop. The apps stuff (Windows Runtime) was actually quite well done for a first try, but it was unfamiliar to Win32 users and got in the way. (Only one click away, but people are impatient and resist change.) Windows 10 does an excellent job of merging apps and traditional programs, though it's not strictly correct to equate apps and mobile. Windows 10 is a mobile operating system that runs apps from an app store, but you can resize apps and run them seamlessly alongside traditional Win32 programs. You can still run Windows 10 in tablet (Windows 8/8.1) mode if you want to. I don't know anyone who does.

gozur88 10y ago

"death throes"

pessimizer 10y ago

> First, they were a computer company driven by a man who loved computers ("first" here is the Jobs return era) ... then they became a Computer company who also made a phone. You missed the most important stages in between: when they became a company that made cute, candy-colored computers that would match your Volkswagen New Beetle, then when they made a totally awesome mp3 player you could get to match it.

rimantas 10y ago

You know what fans (the real ones) do? They try to know more about the thing they are fans of, and to understand it. Your comment shows nothing of the kind.

rusk 10y ago
Sorry but who wants to be some lame "fan"? We want the best tool for the job, too get that job done and we're willing to pay for it. The tools are no longer up to scratch or functioning as expected and we are voicing our concern.
- _ao789 10y ago
  I couldn't agree with you more on this statement. Said exactly as I feel.
- rimantas 10y ago
  People declaring they are fans? Did you even read the comment I was replying to? > The tools are no longer up to scratch or functioning as > expected and we are voicing our concern. That's bullshit and you know it.
  - rusk 10y ago
    I'm sorry I re-read GP and I'm still unclear what you're talking about. For as long as I've been using Apple it has always been because of the superior experience. Its with regret I have to say I am let down by (in particular) their software quality recently. I've gotten to the point where I'm fairly certain my next phone won't be an iPhone. I can't ... understand your line of reasoning .. that as an Apple user that means I should have some loyalty to them if what they're selling me doesn't fulfil my needs. I'm really interested in knowing where you're coming from but your snarky tone is making that difficult.
  - dang 10y ago
    We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines and ignoring our request to stop.

brandall10 10y ago

FWIW, I have a 2016 13" nTB and have had a few trip over the power cord incidents. The USB-C cord snaps right out almost like magsafe for me... the laptop will get a nice tug and move an inch, but it comes out even on a slick countertop.

fpoling 10y ago
I had similar experience with MacBook 2015. Yes, the laptop did move, but that was less than 2" before the cable detached.
- greenknight 10y ago
  The original magsafe design ( http://www.iclarified.com/images/news/9014/31392/31392-500.jpg http://www.iclarified.com/images/news/9014/31392/31392-500.j... ) was the most ideal desing out of all of them in my opinion... I have seen macbooks slide about 20-30cm with the new designs without the magsafe connector disengaging, all because the of direction of pull. The only problem was that the original magsafe design was prone to fraying. and probably didn't look as sexy as having the cord at a right angle to the computer.

ozmbie 10y ago

Apple is a still computer company, because Phones ARE computers. For the majority of the population in developed countries, and almost all of the population of developing countries, smartphones are the only computer people have or need. I agree that Apple have shifted focus away from "making tools for people to create things and solve problems" towards consumption-oriented mobile devices. But those devices are still computers, and they're wildly successful. If Apple devoted their focus to products in proportion to their revenue, then they would be putting 12x as much effort into the iPhone than they would for the entire Mac lineup.

mooreds 10y ago
> If Apple devoted their focus to products in proportion to their revenue, then they would be putting 12x as much effort into the iPhone than they would for the entire Mac lineup. True. However, creators and developers (who, in my experience, almost always use a desktop) are important for the iOS platform. Someone has to write those native apps. Therefore it doesn't make sense to ignore them for too long.
- cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
  Developers flock to the platform with more users. Which means Apple actually does need to focus on iOS to get more people to keep using mac. Those of us who are ios developers will keep bitching about it but have no alternative so will keep on using macs as long as their iOS ecosystem is doing great.
  - mgamache 10y ago
    While this is generally true, it's a little more nuanced. For example: Android has a larger market share (by a lot globally), but apps are frequently developed for iOS first. Why? Because it's easier. Device fragmentation plays a large role in that, but part of the cost of the project is dealing with the development ecosystem (good or bad). As Apple makes the development less appealing (because of sub standard hardware / OSX) android will seem like a better option.

k-mcgrady 10y ago

>> The new "features" every cycle are more "lets put this phone feature on the desktop" What is it missing? It's been a while since I really wanted a feature in the desktop OS. All of the 'phone' features (besides launchpad) have made my life a lot easier (continuity, handoff, notification centre, even Siri from time to time).

ThomPete 10y ago
I don't miss features I just miss refinement. As a app developer who wanted to build an app which challenged what a mac can do with regards to productivity I had to basically leave the mac app store because they made it impossible for me to make it work in Sandbox mode.
Lio 10y ago
It's missing high performance graphics drivers in the form of either openGL or Metal. It's missing proper support for eGPU cards, which is currently the only way to add a high performance GPU to any currently produced Mac. Blender, for instance, can't even make use of th GPU in my MacBook Pro because the openCL support in macOS is not good enough.
- eanzenberg 10y ago
  Mac laptops never had that.
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lokedhs 10y ago
Shipping Unix tools (like Bash) from this decade would be a start. Trying to get modern Unix software to run on OSX is getting more and more painful. Since development is the main activity I do on a laptop, this is quite important.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  UNIX being part of OS X is a historical accident, Apple just wanted to save themselves from Copland's failure.

JKCalhoun 10y ago

> Then they became a phone company who also made computers and tablets. You're describing the changing world we're living in. Apple is merely reflecting it.

tessierashpool 10y ago

> Now they are a phone company who presides over the death throws of an amazing operating system that is going to be killed off to make it more like a phone. The new "features" every cycle are more "lets put this phone feature on the desktop" it's death throes.

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KSS42 10y ago

Recall that Apple Computer Inc became Apple Inc January 2007.

CamperBob2 10y ago
Under Steve Jobs's leadership, no less.

powerapple 10y ago

Agree. Have you noticed that their phones also suck now? I am locked in their eco system, but I can tell, the quality of software is just not there any more.

adventured 10y ago

> Cook is trying to emulate the hardheadedness but fails to recognize the reasonability needed to balance that. I don't think Cook is hardheaded. I think he has no idea how to run a product company. Pretty much everyone from the average HN user to Larry Ellison predicted this outcome. Cook is logistics / supply chain etc, Ballmer was sales, neither had any business at the top of their respective companies. Jobs did it on purpose, in my opinion, because he believed the single most important function initially was to keep Apple running smoothly and to complete the iPhone boom (ie the big product for the next decade was already in place). The only question is how long Apple will stay in the Cook era before getting a product leader replacement.

chm 10y ago

My experience with hardware that comes pre-loaded with Windows is that it is utter crap. Or so it seems - it works fine once you remove Windows and install Linux for example. I have kept none of my previous Windows machines. None. They all decay so fast, BSODs after months of use, constant reboots just because things don't act right, general instability, sluggishness, etc. I have only recently built myself a new Linux tower. Much more pleasant. OTOH, ALL Apple hardware that I have bought (multiple iPads, iPhones, iPods, Macbook Pros, iMacs) still works as advertised and is in good shape (I always buy and use Apple Care). I have just recently begun to use my Linux desktop more because my 2009 MBP is starting to feel a bit sluggish. People can whine all they want about Apple (I personally will not buy the new MBPs, wait until next year's model). The truth is they've set the bar so high that anything less than perfection (which IMO is mostly what they gave us during the last decade) is seen as unacceptable. The same cannot be said of Windows - at least according to my experience since Windows 95. I recently bought a brand new SSD and a license for Windows 10. One day after installation, Windows crashed and had to "repair" itself. To be fair, it has been running flawlessly since.

elbrian 10y ago
Do you just roll into WalMart and buy the first $300 HP you see? That's literally the only way I can see your anecdotal experience being truthful. The PC marketplace is open, like the Android one. There's a lot of cruft to sift through, but it should only take about 1-2 hours of research to find the best laptop at any given time and any given price range for any given use-case.
- chm 10y ago
  No. ~1200 PCs and laptops. I understand that it seems like I'm exaggerating. I'm not. Either I have been incredibly unlucky (or stupid in my choices), or Mac hardware is of better quality. But you're right that it's anecdotal.

_pmf_ 10y ago

> Jobs was hardheaded, but reasonable. Cook is trying to emulate the hardheadedness but fails to recognize the reasonability needed to balance that. I think we can be sure that under Jobs, they would not be in a situation where you cannot charge the current iPhone model with the current MacBook without a dongle. "Oh, it's not a dongle, it's just a cable." -> Get out of my face.

nkkollaw 10y ago

> I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or similar connection Do Windows laptops have it, or you're going to use a 2014 MacBook Air forever..?

kstenerud 10y ago

Good riddance to magsafe. I've had two laptops become unusable because the magsafe connection became flaky and wouldn't charge unless I fiddled with it until it rested just so (even contact cleaner wouldn't help). There was no hope of it lasting more than a few hours without constant tending by me to get the connection just right again. I've never in my life had any other computer that failed in that way. Moving to USB-C was the right choice. Charge cable goes bad? Buy another one for $15. Everything else is spot on. Apple quality is fast going downhill.

rebootthesystem 10y ago

Many years ago, before the age of the iPhone, I had a meeting with about thirty people at Apple headquarters at the request of Steve Jobs. That was my very first visit to Apple HQ. After half a day of conversations, as we left the building, my very first words to my team were: "Apple Computer is no more. This is a marketing company. They might as well stick their logo on washing machines, microwaves and refrigerators. They know how to market them to be cool and they'll sell millions of them" Then came the iPhone. And, yeah, they could have filled homes with Apple appliances. Not sure why they didn't go there. So easy. Not saying it would have been right, but they had the opening and the mindless following to make every home "Apple Cool".

darpa_escapee 10y ago

> the consumers anymore, they stick their fingers in their ears and pretend to know best. They are though. Consumers will pay for hardware with batteries that die after a year and a half. They'll pay for vendor-lock in and to be locked into the walled garden experience. They'll pay for hardware that will be locked out of the walled garden and unsupported by vendor updates after 4-5 years. They'll pay extra for accessories that give basic functionality to their electronics. They'll pay a massive premium for accessories that are subpar for their asking price if they're endorsed by celebrities. I'm not a fan of newer Apple hardware and software, but we're in the minority.