16 ms·

Decline of the Dad Job

158 points by hunglee2 10y ago

lukasm 10y ago
> The male employment rate fell below 80 percent and stayed there. so there is 14% decline in a group of people from 16-64. It's missing: - Universities, training, gap years etc. - People that have retired early - Permtractors (some portion of them have a company in a different location, like Isle of Man and do work in, say, London) - Disability benefits and eligibility
- toyg 10y ago
  All those factors existed before.
  - _delirium 10y ago
    Not all the factors are the same. It used to be legal in all states to leave school at age 16, which is part of why the traditional workforce participation statistic is for ages 16-64. But that only remains true in 16 states; 34 states have raised the minimum school-leaving age, yet the workforce-participation statistics are still calculated for age 16-64. Naturally you would expect lower workforce participation among people aged 16-18 when it's illegal for them to drop out of school and get a job instead. It's also now more de-facto expected than it used to be that you attend at least some university (2 years of community college if not a 4-year university), so workforce participation rates for people aged 18-20 are declining for non-mysterious reasons. Although that's at least something you can legally choose not to do.
  - lukasm 10y ago
    Yes, but with a totally different scale. - 15% more Millennials went to the uni comparing to Baby Boomers - In my friend's production company that works for BBC almost everybody is a contractor - 20 years ago very few were. (Similar pattern exists in big banks) There are so many variables.
divbit 10y ago
I think you hit the nail on the head with this sentence: "A few of years ago, Gallup found that what most people wanted, all over the world, was a secure full-time job. That, after all, is the way most people get enough money to live on." But then backtrack here and miss the point "A lot of us, men and women, grew up thinking of male full-time jobs as real jobs. It’s no wonder that many find the decline of the dad job so unsettling." I don't think it's 'realness', whatever that means, that matters. It is the benefits like healthcare, ability to afford a place to live, education, and further the social and mental health benefit of working in proximity with people with similar interests and abilities.
- 1_2__3 10y ago
  I do think 'realness' factors into it though. If you can connect what you're doing with the value the company gets from you doing it, you naturally are going to feel like you doing well == company doing well == security for all. This is, in fact, the implicit bargain in long-term employment. As business and industry has become more abstract, more interconnect, more outsourced, and as in general human capital's value has crashed much harder than any graph from the article will show you, it becomes significantly harder for an employee to understand how his or her role actually translates into value. Or if it is understandable, it's abstracted away through a few other layers of the business and many of those layers change often, leaving you wondering if you're going to continue to be a part of it. I think 'realness' factors hugely into it.
- XorNot 10y ago
  I'd add that "healthcare" as a benefit is a very American concern. In most real countries, that's taken care of separate to our jobs.
  - divbit 10y ago
    Yes, I almost expanded further on the healthcare point for that reason, but then realized the author seems as if they are possibly writing from the UK.
    - 10y ago
dilap 10y ago
here in sf many people are out on the streets. families are out on the beaches & hills of hawaii. we have got to make it, as a culture, possible for anyone willing to play along at a reasonable level to have a good life. we are failing at this, and it is tragic, and it is not a world any of is should be happy to be in. we have immense, mind-blowing wealth as a culture and as a nation. we need to do better.
- stevenmays 10y ago
  You can't "make it" or legislate that everyone gets to live in San Francisco or in a house by the beach if they work a minimum wage job. That's how you get into the unafforable mess. Most cities with unaffordable housing, like NYC and SF, have rent controls and zoning issues artificially increasing demand and tightening supply simultaneously.
  - galdosdi 10y ago
    For NYC, that's a myth. There are two programs: "rent control" - grandfathered in old program that affects a very, very small number of apartments, not enough to make any market price difference, except for the lucky few who happen to have these "rent stabilization" - a huge proportion of apartments are affected by this program, but it only applies to buildings built before 1970something, so it obviously can't affect new construction incentives. Even if it did, it's so full of loopholes I don't see it affecting the market prices. Outside of lower Manhattan, rent stabilized apartments often have official maximum prices well above the current rent. The difference is explained by a legal fiction called "preferential rent" ie, the landlord is giving the tenant a temporary discount and reserves the right to raise up to the maximum legal rent at any time. So, no, in NYC, rent regulations aren't significantly contributing to a housing shortage. The main obstacle to building more housing, is building more housing. Duh.
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    Exactly. High rent is an economic signal, saying "build more housing" or "move away". You have to listen to it, not fight it.
TorKlingberg 10y ago
Using total employment rate (16-64) is disingenuous. Much of the drop is more people going to university, or just finishing high school before working. For women that effect is hidden by the decline in homemakers.
- peter303 10y ago
  Trump said recently as last week that all non-employed people in this age group are unemployed. That number is 41% in US. Note this includes all the women-folk in Trumps family- four housewives and a student.
ryanmarsh 10y ago
Female hypergamy has existed as a sexual strategy since the dawn of humanity. Why would it suddenly cause all this change? I think you're getting the cart before the horse. A lack of dependence on men has caused an increase in the expression of hypergamy strategies not the other way around. Female employment is the result of central bankers targeting full employment, which lead to inflation, which has lead to globalization[1] to escape labor cost inflation, which will again lead to inflation and of course automation is the only answer. Capitalism rewards those with leverage and automation is the ultimate leverage (beyond capital itself). [1]: Political Apects of Full Employment, Michale Kalecki, Political Quartly 1943 http://delong.typepad.com/kalecki43.pdf http://delong.typepad.com/kalecki43.pdf
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  As the paper I cite shows, what changed is that women are entering the workforce and finding better jobs than men. I think we are saying the same thing.
  - ryanmarsh 10y ago
    I follow you. I take issue with "Female hypergamy is probably the real issue here.". That strategy isn't the problem. It's a constant in the equation. As far as men are concerned it might as well be Planck's constant. From a purely biological approach you should be more concerned about things that give the opposite sex a more competitive edge not declare that they should cease to be competitive.
    - dgudkov 10y ago
      The stability of the strategy can be the problem. If the strategy assumes increased attractiveness of males with higher relative income, then the higher the female income becomes the fewer men fall into the higher relative income category which boosts hypergamy even more. Therefore a constant hypergamy strategy coupled with growing female income lead to increasingly less effective dating market for both male and female sides of it. To resolve the problem either the female income should decrease (which women don't want to do), or the strategy should change (which women can't do). Otherwise we're heading into a fundamental social crisis.
ryanmarsh 10y ago
I keep wondering what kind of jobs are going to be there for my kids and what I need to be teaching them. My oldest daughter wants to have a beauty business instead of go to college. I think she might be better off that way. I mean, the day when women would rather gossip to a machine while getting their hair cut by it is a long way off. I'm not so sure what to do for my other kids though.
- extra88 10y ago
  Not everyone needs a four-year degree but on top of whatever education and training makes sense for the "beauty business," I think taking some classes on how to run a business would be important.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  > I mean, the day when women would rather gossip to a machine while getting their hair cut by it is a long way off. It might be a while before it happens, but it will happen. I believe that the answer to "when will my job be done by a robot" is "sooner than you think" for all professions.
  - marchenko 10y ago
    It depends on what the point of a haircut is. For many demographics, the actual haircut is not the primary component of the regular salon experience.
  - mafro 10y ago
    Even the guys whose job it is to program the robots?
    - varjag 10y ago
      His job would possibly be gone before the hairdresser's is.
    - sdiupIGPWEfh 10y ago
      Robots will be programming the robots. There will hopefully be a select few humans at least overseeing the robot programming robots.
rrggrr 10y ago
Tip of iceberg. I'm a divorced father of two sons and lucky enough to have a position that gives me some (not a lot) of flexibility in work schedule. The Courts, as many divorced fathers will say, haven't heard the news about the ever increasing decline in the 'Dad Job'. In my state thousands of men are in jail for non-payment of child support because the 'Dad Job' isn't available in this state. Progress toward the agnostic treatment of men and women in raising children, providing for the household, and making a home is still far behind the reality in most (not all) Courts, despite claims to the contrary. It took most of my net worth to ensure my presence in my kids lives would be regular and meaningful and to ensure child support reflected my former wife's multi-million dollar net worth. Perhaps a level playing field is emerging as the 'Dad Job' declines, I don't know. Its of little benefit to the tens of thousands of men in the United States whose reality is of no concern to anyone.
- jcoffland 10y ago
  I'm sure this situation is very real for you but you exaggerate a little. Most men do not end up in jail for failing to make child support payments. Child support enforcement is a long drawn out process. Edit: But I could be wrong. I found several anecdotal articles about this subject on the NY Times and elsewhere. Here's a more informative article on the topic http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/child-support-and-incarceration.aspx http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/child-support-an...
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - erik998 10y ago
    I don't think it's an exaggeration. In some areas its not permanent jail, you just go to jail on weekends. However, the structure of justifying best efforts to pay child support exists in a world of dad jobs. You can't get letters from Uber stating you gave it a good effort X many days this week. Getting an attorney costs money, if you had money I am sure it would go to child support. Additionally, it is not easy to take time off most jobs to attend court hearings. It also does not reflect well if you ask your employer for time to attend such hearings.
popobobo 10y ago
Why is this a big deal.
Mendenhall 10y ago
It seems it has to do with what jobs women are filling. You dont see women moving to construction trades and the like in any large number.
erik998 10y ago
The decline of these dad jobs will soon permeate itself into credit scoring as well. I have always thought of individual credit scores being a reflection of steady paycheck from a credit worthy employer and that individual's ability to manage his/her debt. Will changes be needed to reflect upon an individual's flexibility and capacity for attaining jobs in a gig economy as well as their ability to manage debt? Or will one day credit scores just be a reflection of someone's tenure at a company with a good NSCRO credit rating? Additionally the use of jail to persuade child support payments can also perpetuate this downward spiral. Credit account closures/declines in credit lines for imprisoned cardholders can adversely affect credit scores and employment opportunities. I understand paying child support is necessary but garnishment and seizure of tax refunds should be enough. Many people will need to begin to reconsider what is home/community. They will need to avail themselves to the flexibility of labor markets. Doing so alone is possible but if you have a family it is burdensome without some governmental support. People once had that mindset... constant moving... constant searching for new opportunities. It is tiresome but many more will need to adapt to that mindset.
- jcoffland 10y ago
  I have had intermittent income for over a decade as a contractor and my credit score is excellent. Credit scores are based on making regular debt payments, paying bills on time and a lack of tax leins.
  - jordanb 10y ago
    I think the OP's point is that credit scores may be conditioned to assume regular income if a person has a good payment history. In doing so they are failing to capture a new and growing dimension of risk: peoples incomes are more precarious.
flat6turbo 10y ago
> but you exaggerate a little this is why it will never get fixed. every story, no matter how bad, is met with disbelief. i, for one, am never getting married, precisely because i DO believe all these stories, and in fact i extrapolate there to be many more, far worse stories, that never get told. people don't like recounting these experiences, even anonymously. this isn't a judgment on marriage; it's a judgment on me. i couldn't deal with a divorce and having my assets stripped from me. thank you OP for joining the growing chorus of voices speaking out against how truly awful this entire racket is.
- accountface 10y ago
  so you take a false assumption and turn it into additional assumptions?
  - flat6turbo 10y ago
    yeah, sure. my entire world view is based on my assumptions, many of which you probably disagree with. what do you want me to do? be you instead of me?
- tzakrajs 10y ago
  #mgtow will always agree with your sentiments.
  - flat6turbo 10y ago
    i specifically said marriage, not relationships or children. also, tongue in cheek "did you just assume my gender?" http://nymag.com/news/features/gay-divorce-2013-3/index1.html http://nymag.com/news/features/gay-divorce-2013-3/index1.htm...
    - tzakrajs 10y ago
      For clarity, I did not assume your gender. Women, non-binary and others can espouse MGTOW views.
- 10y ago
aidenn0 10y ago
I'm starting to feel more and more that the ability of median wealth families to live in a home (apartment, or house, rented, or owned) as a nuclear family was just a blip in the post-war, manufacturing-heavy US. For most of human existence, multiple generations and cousins &ct. living together was fairly common, and it's rapidly looking like we may have to go back to that. You already see this for the working-poor in coastal California; I don't know if this trend continues inland as housing becomes less expensive.
Animats 10y ago
For a US perspective, see "When Factory Jobs Vanish, Men Become Less Desirable Partners" in The Atlantic.[1] [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/03/manufacturing-marriage-family/518280/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/03/manufac...

158 points by hunglee2 10y ago

> The male employment rate fell below 80 percent and stayed there. so there is 14% decline in a group of people from 16-64. It's missing: - Universities, training, gap years etc. - People that have retired early - Permtractors (some portion of them have a company in a different location, like Isle of Man and do work in, say, London) - Disability benefits and eligibility

toyg 10y ago
All those factors existed before.
- _delirium 10y ago
  Not all the factors are the same. It used to be legal in all states to leave school at age 16, which is part of why the traditional workforce participation statistic is for ages 16-64. But that only remains true in 16 states; 34 states have raised the minimum school-leaving age, yet the workforce-participation statistics are still calculated for age 16-64. Naturally you would expect lower workforce participation among people aged 16-18 when it's illegal for them to drop out of school and get a job instead. It's also now more de-facto expected than it used to be that you attend at least some university (2 years of community college if not a 4-year university), so workforce participation rates for people aged 18-20 are declining for non-mysterious reasons. Although that's at least something you can legally choose not to do.
- lukasm 10y ago
  Yes, but with a totally different scale. - 15% more Millennials went to the uni comparing to Baby Boomers - In my friend's production company that works for BBC almost everybody is a contractor - 20 years ago very few were. (Similar pattern exists in big banks) There are so many variables.

divbit 10y ago

I think you hit the nail on the head with this sentence: "A few of years ago, Gallup found that what most people wanted, all over the world, was a secure full-time job. That, after all, is the way most people get enough money to live on." But then backtrack here and miss the point "A lot of us, men and women, grew up thinking of male full-time jobs as real jobs. It’s no wonder that many find the decline of the dad job so unsettling." I don't think it's 'realness', whatever that means, that matters. It is the benefits like healthcare, ability to afford a place to live, education, and further the social and mental health benefit of working in proximity with people with similar interests and abilities.

1_2__3 10y ago
I do think 'realness' factors into it though. If you can connect what you're doing with the value the company gets from you doing it, you naturally are going to feel like you doing well == company doing well == security for all. This is, in fact, the implicit bargain in long-term employment. As business and industry has become more abstract, more interconnect, more outsourced, and as in general human capital's value has crashed much harder than any graph from the article will show you, it becomes significantly harder for an employee to understand how his or her role actually translates into value. Or if it is understandable, it's abstracted away through a few other layers of the business and many of those layers change often, leaving you wondering if you're going to continue to be a part of it. I think 'realness' factors hugely into it.
XorNot 10y ago
I'd add that "healthcare" as a benefit is a very American concern. In most real countries, that's taken care of separate to our jobs.
- divbit 10y ago
  Yes, I almost expanded further on the healthcare point for that reason, but then realized the author seems as if they are possibly writing from the UK.
  - 10y ago

dilap 10y ago

here in sf many people are out on the streets. families are out on the beaches & hills of hawaii. we have got to make it, as a culture, possible for anyone willing to play along at a reasonable level to have a good life. we are failing at this, and it is tragic, and it is not a world any of is should be happy to be in. we have immense, mind-blowing wealth as a culture and as a nation. we need to do better.

stevenmays 10y ago
You can't "make it" or legislate that everyone gets to live in San Francisco or in a house by the beach if they work a minimum wage job. That's how you get into the unafforable mess. Most cities with unaffordable housing, like NYC and SF, have rent controls and zoning issues artificially increasing demand and tightening supply simultaneously.
- galdosdi 10y ago
  For NYC, that's a myth. There are two programs: "rent control" - grandfathered in old program that affects a very, very small number of apartments, not enough to make any market price difference, except for the lucky few who happen to have these "rent stabilization" - a huge proportion of apartments are affected by this program, but it only applies to buildings built before 1970something, so it obviously can't affect new construction incentives. Even if it did, it's so full of loopholes I don't see it affecting the market prices. Outside of lower Manhattan, rent stabilized apartments often have official maximum prices well above the current rent. The difference is explained by a legal fiction called "preferential rent" ie, the landlord is giving the tenant a temporary discount and reserves the right to raise up to the maximum legal rent at any time. So, no, in NYC, rent regulations aren't significantly contributing to a housing shortage. The main obstacle to building more housing, is building more housing. Duh.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  Exactly. High rent is an economic signal, saying "build more housing" or "move away". You have to listen to it, not fight it.

TorKlingberg 10y ago

Using total employment rate (16-64) is disingenuous. Much of the drop is more people going to university, or just finishing high school before working. For women that effect is hidden by the decline in homemakers.

peter303 10y ago
Trump said recently as last week that all non-employed people in this age group are unemployed. That number is 41% in US. Note this includes all the women-folk in Trumps family- four housewives and a student.

ryanmarsh 10y ago

Female hypergamy has existed as a sexual strategy since the dawn of humanity. Why would it suddenly cause all this change? I think you're getting the cart before the horse. A lack of dependence on men has caused an increase in the expression of hypergamy strategies not the other way around. Female employment is the result of central bankers targeting full employment, which lead to inflation, which has lead to globalization[1] to escape labor cost inflation, which will again lead to inflation and of course automation is the only answer. Capitalism rewards those with leverage and automation is the ultimate leverage (beyond capital itself). [1]: Political Apects of Full Employment, Michale Kalecki, Political Quartly 1943 http://delong.typepad.com/kalecki43.pdf http://delong.typepad.com/kalecki43.pdf

yummyfajitas 10y ago
As the paper I cite shows, what changed is that women are entering the workforce and finding better jobs than men. I think we are saying the same thing.
- ryanmarsh 10y ago
  I follow you. I take issue with "Female hypergamy is probably the real issue here.". That strategy isn't the problem. It's a constant in the equation. As far as men are concerned it might as well be Planck's constant. From a purely biological approach you should be more concerned about things that give the opposite sex a more competitive edge not declare that they should cease to be competitive.
  - dgudkov 10y ago
    The stability of the strategy can be the problem. If the strategy assumes increased attractiveness of males with higher relative income, then the higher the female income becomes the fewer men fall into the higher relative income category which boosts hypergamy even more. Therefore a constant hypergamy strategy coupled with growing female income lead to increasingly less effective dating market for both male and female sides of it. To resolve the problem either the female income should decrease (which women don't want to do), or the strategy should change (which women can't do). Otherwise we're heading into a fundamental social crisis.

ryanmarsh 10y ago

I keep wondering what kind of jobs are going to be there for my kids and what I need to be teaching them. My oldest daughter wants to have a beauty business instead of go to college. I think she might be better off that way. I mean, the day when women would rather gossip to a machine while getting their hair cut by it is a long way off. I'm not so sure what to do for my other kids though.

extra88 10y ago
Not everyone needs a four-year degree but on top of whatever education and training makes sense for the "beauty business," I think taking some classes on how to run a business would be important.
ryandrake 10y ago
> I mean, the day when women would rather gossip to a machine while getting their hair cut by it is a long way off. It might be a while before it happens, but it will happen. I believe that the answer to "when will my job be done by a robot" is "sooner than you think" for all professions.
- marchenko 10y ago
  It depends on what the point of a haircut is. For many demographics, the actual haircut is not the primary component of the regular salon experience.
- mafro 10y ago
  Even the guys whose job it is to program the robots?
  - varjag 10y ago
    His job would possibly be gone before the hairdresser's is.
  - sdiupIGPWEfh 10y ago
    Robots will be programming the robots. There will hopefully be a select few humans at least overseeing the robot programming robots.

rrggrr 10y ago

Tip of iceberg. I'm a divorced father of two sons and lucky enough to have a position that gives me some (not a lot) of flexibility in work schedule. The Courts, as many divorced fathers will say, haven't heard the news about the ever increasing decline in the 'Dad Job'. In my state thousands of men are in jail for non-payment of child support because the 'Dad Job' isn't available in this state. Progress toward the agnostic treatment of men and women in raising children, providing for the household, and making a home is still far behind the reality in most (not all) Courts, despite claims to the contrary. It took most of my net worth to ensure my presence in my kids lives would be regular and meaningful and to ensure child support reflected my former wife's multi-million dollar net worth. Perhaps a level playing field is emerging as the 'Dad Job' declines, I don't know. Its of little benefit to the tens of thousands of men in the United States whose reality is of no concern to anyone.

jcoffland 10y ago
I'm sure this situation is very real for you but you exaggerate a little. Most men do not end up in jail for failing to make child support payments. Child support enforcement is a long drawn out process. Edit: But I could be wrong. I found several anecdotal articles about this subject on the NY Times and elsewhere. Here's a more informative article on the topic http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/child-support-and-incarceration.aspx http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/child-support-an...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- erik998 10y ago
  I don't think it's an exaggeration. In some areas its not permanent jail, you just go to jail on weekends. However, the structure of justifying best efforts to pay child support exists in a world of dad jobs. You can't get letters from Uber stating you gave it a good effort X many days this week. Getting an attorney costs money, if you had money I am sure it would go to child support. Additionally, it is not easy to take time off most jobs to attend court hearings. It also does not reflect well if you ask your employer for time to attend such hearings.

popobobo 10y ago

Why is this a big deal.

Mendenhall 10y ago

It seems it has to do with what jobs women are filling. You dont see women moving to construction trades and the like in any large number.

erik998 10y ago

The decline of these dad jobs will soon permeate itself into credit scoring as well. I have always thought of individual credit scores being a reflection of steady paycheck from a credit worthy employer and that individual's ability to manage his/her debt. Will changes be needed to reflect upon an individual's flexibility and capacity for attaining jobs in a gig economy as well as their ability to manage debt? Or will one day credit scores just be a reflection of someone's tenure at a company with a good NSCRO credit rating? Additionally the use of jail to persuade child support payments can also perpetuate this downward spiral. Credit account closures/declines in credit lines for imprisoned cardholders can adversely affect credit scores and employment opportunities. I understand paying child support is necessary but garnishment and seizure of tax refunds should be enough. Many people will need to begin to reconsider what is home/community. They will need to avail themselves to the flexibility of labor markets. Doing so alone is possible but if you have a family it is burdensome without some governmental support. People once had that mindset... constant moving... constant searching for new opportunities. It is tiresome but many more will need to adapt to that mindset.

jcoffland 10y ago
I have had intermittent income for over a decade as a contractor and my credit score is excellent. Credit scores are based on making regular debt payments, paying bills on time and a lack of tax leins.
- jordanb 10y ago
  I think the OP's point is that credit scores may be conditioned to assume regular income if a person has a good payment history. In doing so they are failing to capture a new and growing dimension of risk: peoples incomes are more precarious.

flat6turbo 10y ago

> but you exaggerate a little this is why it will never get fixed. every story, no matter how bad, is met with disbelief. i, for one, am never getting married, precisely because i DO believe all these stories, and in fact i extrapolate there to be many more, far worse stories, that never get told. people don't like recounting these experiences, even anonymously. this isn't a judgment on marriage; it's a judgment on me. i couldn't deal with a divorce and having my assets stripped from me. thank you OP for joining the growing chorus of voices speaking out against how truly awful this entire racket is.

accountface 10y ago
so you take a false assumption and turn it into additional assumptions?
- flat6turbo 10y ago
  yeah, sure. my entire world view is based on my assumptions, many of which you probably disagree with. what do you want me to do? be you instead of me?
tzakrajs 10y ago
#mgtow will always agree with your sentiments.
- flat6turbo 10y ago
  i specifically said marriage, not relationships or children. also, tongue in cheek "did you just assume my gender?" http://nymag.com/news/features/gay-divorce-2013-3/index1.html http://nymag.com/news/features/gay-divorce-2013-3/index1.htm...
  - tzakrajs 10y ago
    For clarity, I did not assume your gender. Women, non-binary and others can espouse MGTOW views.
10y ago

aidenn0 10y ago

I'm starting to feel more and more that the ability of median wealth families to live in a home (apartment, or house, rented, or owned) as a nuclear family was just a blip in the post-war, manufacturing-heavy US. For most of human existence, multiple generations and cousins &ct. living together was fairly common, and it's rapidly looking like we may have to go back to that. You already see this for the working-poor in coastal California; I don't know if this trend continues inland as housing becomes less expensive.

Animats 10y ago

For a US perspective, see "When Factory Jobs Vanish, Men Become Less Desirable Partners" in The Atlantic.[1] [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/03/manufacturing-marriage-family/518280/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/03/manufac...