5 ms·

In my experience as a college student, it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime. While you

by nxc18 10y ago

In my experience as a college student, it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime. While you can argue that one should be able to reasonably break laws and not get caught - anything else is a surveillance state and there is value to discretionary enforcement - I wouldn't characterize criticism of cash as just manipulative. For example, on my campus, the vast majority of all cash transactions, from what I've experienced, are to buy illegal drugs or to illegally obtain alcohol. The rest of the transactions are with dining services and with clubs. Because dining services has to keep so much cash on hand, they are a major target for crime; they need to hire more expensive managers to count it, they need to have more cameras and security staff to monitor it, and they need to hire armored guards to carry it off to the bank. In the past front line employees have been shot in armed robberies, so yes, the many safety mechanisms are necessary. What incentive does anyone in this story have to keep using physical cash? It is crazy insecure, dangerous, inconvenient, and used often for illegal things. The criminals (who are more than you'd think; who do you know who hasn't broken at law at least once or twice?) have an incentive to keep cash around. That is legitimate, but as a society, a better approach would be to rewrite our laws to better capture the realities of human behavior and serve the community interest. When people are routinely getting away with things (drinking, smoking, etc.) it is probably time to make them legal and grant those people the full protections of the law and the monetary system - including non-physical value.

canadian_voter 10y ago
In my experience it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime. I own a legitimate, legal business. Half my revenues come in as cash. It is crazy insecure, dangerous, inconvenient, and used often for illegal things. If you don't like it, don't use it. But don't take my right to use it away.
angersock 10y ago
Have you never paid for admittance to a club? Paid a busker? Gone shopping at a thrift store or pawn shop? Bought something at a garage sale? Paid for dinner and tipped without having to split the check for n different cards? Your post reeks of inexperience.
- bouncebounceb 10y ago
  Your post reeks of asshole
- ghaff 10y ago
  I've actually wondered what the impact on buskers, clerks that make some money off a tip jar, etc. is of the shift toward plastic. I guess, in the US, a dollar bill is still a relatively small amount. But I know that I basically never have change on me these days unless it's quarters to put in a parking meter.
  - Neliquat 10y ago
    I imagine one of those swipe attachments for a cheap android phone would work well. The UI is known pretty well now, and many people trust them in the US. I often see them at festivals, where it was previously all-cash, but are now maybe 20% plastic, usually for bigger items ($65 tshirts lol.)
  - c22 10y ago
    I imagine tip jar employees are doing all right. I used to drop a dollar and whatever coins I got back as change in there, now I push the 20% button on their iPad, which is almost always more.
    - angersock 10y ago
      It varies, right? If it hits the iPad or whatever, then the tip goes through management, has to be taxed, may be tipped out to other people, whatever. Some of that is simplified by just having a jar of cash with limited options for opaque gaming.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  In the Nordic countries, you can certainly pay admittance to a club and shop in a thrift shop with a card. You can pay by bank transfer done with a phone app (MobilePay in Denmark, Swish in Sweden, etc) at a garage sale. At the last garage sale I went to, there wasn't anyone around -- just a sign saying everything was priced, and to transfer the money to 12 34 56 78 with MobilePay. In fact, trying to pay cash can cause problems -- so many people use the electronic methods, the doorman might not have any change. (This is often the case at the weird gigs I go to, where only 25 people attend anyway, and it barely breaks even for the promoter). I've heard of a trial to donate money to the homeless using a card, but it was only a trial. It's not normal to tip in a restaurant (or anywhere else). However, the post spoke of having to buy illegal alcohol at college, so the person is clearly in America. But there are always queues at the cash machines near Christiania in Copenhagen, where everyone goes to buy weed. That's the only remaining thing Danes use cash for...
BlackMonday 10y ago
In europe most of the population seems to prefer to pay in cash (for clothes, groceries, electronics etc. pp.).
- ghaff 10y ago
  Except Sweden apparently. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cashless-society-cards-phone-apps-leading-europe https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cash...
  - BlackMonday 10y ago
    The article you linked was on HN's or reddit's frontpage recently, that's why I wrote "most". ;o) (plus I don't know enough about every european country obviously). EDIT - looking at the date of the article it might have been not the same, but a similar one.
    - ghaff 10y ago
      Anecdotally, I think you're generally right that Europe isn't as heavily into plastic (whether credit cards or something else) as the US. (Though they're pretty widely-accepted in the UK where I spend most of my European time.) I'll be in Germany at the end of the month and it sounds as if I should definitely expect to pay cash a lot of the time. Sweden does seem to be this cashless outlier for some reason. [EDIT: I gather it's a Nordics thing more generally.] I think it was also featured in a Freakonomics episode fairly recently.
      - Freak_NL 10y ago
        > Anecdotally, I think you're generally right that Europe isn't as heavily into plastic […] Depends on your definition of plastic. Debit cards are common here. Europeans tend not to use credit cards as much as Americans though; they are mostly used just for travelling or (international) internet purchases.
- Freak_NL 10y ago
wink 10y ago
There's also these weird remote countries nobody has ever heard of where 1/3 (estimate, but more than 10%) of restaurants only take cash, paying amounts < 5$ still grants you a weird look at best, a nope or wtf at worst - and there are in general a ton of shops (bakery, butcher's, boothes, vending machines, etc) that don't take anything but cash, and usually still can't change a 50 :) Oh, by the way, one of these countries is Germany.
clamprecht 10y ago
I live in Argentina part of the time (I'm here right now). When I'm here, I don't even carry my wallet around, ever. I bring cash and my SUBE (public transit) card. I love it.
edko 10y ago
In many places that are not "First World", cash (especially foreign hard currency) is a way citizens have of protecting their assets from the greed of corrupt politicians.
- andai 10y ago
  Indeed there is much to be said for the value of diversifying your assets, and the same is true when it comes to physical and nonphysical currency. Now, where to put them...
valuearb 10y ago
"who are more than you'd think; who do you know who hasn't broken at law at least once or twice" You wrote this without an ounce of introspection, not thinking about what we classify as "crime" nowadays and how much are entirely victimless activities.
phil21 10y ago
Why do you feel it's a currency's place to (help) enforce the law? If all you can think of for things "people don't want tracked" is "crime" I don't think you've thought about the problem set very long. It's incredibly damaging to never have "things be in the past". One thing experience has taught us is that any electronic records generated will be kept indefinitely regardless of policy or law. I just don't understand folks who seem to be completely ok with any agency remotely curious in you being able to re-construct your entire spending history over your life. You might just be so boring you can't imagine hiding anything, but I think you're in the minority. This is also ignoring the additional transaction taxes private institutions put upon the entire consumer economy. All this so you can maybe do away with some crime (I just think payments will transition and simply cost more) for what amounts to convenience and security. As with all things, I think making that trade ends in long-term ruin.
jliptzin 10y ago
Here is just one example (of many that immediately pop into my head) of a recent situation where I needed to use cash for something completely legal - buying a birthday present for my significant other who I share credit cards with. He'd potentially see the purchase on our statement and so I paid cash to make sure the surprise wouldn't be ruined.
jonknee 10y ago
The real world isn't your college campus with everything provided. Cash is not rare in the real world, that's why there are so many ATMs!
jpindar 10y ago
>In my experience as a college student, it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime. You must live in a bubble then. I live in a beach town where there are many small restaurants, souvenir stores etc. that only take cash. (It's not a problem for the tourists because there are many ATMs). Once you leave your bubble there are also farm stands, yard sales and so on.

by nxc18 10y ago

canadian_voter 10y ago

In my experience it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime. I own a legitimate, legal business. Half my revenues come in as cash. It is crazy insecure, dangerous, inconvenient, and used often for illegal things. If you don't like it, don't use it. But don't take my right to use it away.

angersock 10y ago

Have you never paid for admittance to a club? Paid a busker? Gone shopping at a thrift store or pawn shop? Bought something at a garage sale? Paid for dinner and tipped without having to split the check for n different cards? Your post reeks of inexperience.

bouncebounceb 10y ago
Your post reeks of asshole
ghaff 10y ago
I've actually wondered what the impact on buskers, clerks that make some money off a tip jar, etc. is of the shift toward plastic. I guess, in the US, a dollar bill is still a relatively small amount. But I know that I basically never have change on me these days unless it's quarters to put in a parking meter.
- Neliquat 10y ago
  I imagine one of those swipe attachments for a cheap android phone would work well. The UI is known pretty well now, and many people trust them in the US. I often see them at festivals, where it was previously all-cash, but are now maybe 20% plastic, usually for bigger items ($65 tshirts lol.)
- c22 10y ago
  I imagine tip jar employees are doing all right. I used to drop a dollar and whatever coins I got back as change in there, now I push the 20% button on their iPad, which is almost always more.
  - angersock 10y ago
    It varies, right? If it hits the iPad or whatever, then the tip goes through management, has to be taxed, may be tipped out to other people, whatever. Some of that is simplified by just having a jar of cash with limited options for opaque gaming.
Symbiote 10y ago
In the Nordic countries, you can certainly pay admittance to a club and shop in a thrift shop with a card. You can pay by bank transfer done with a phone app (MobilePay in Denmark, Swish in Sweden, etc) at a garage sale. At the last garage sale I went to, there wasn't anyone around -- just a sign saying everything was priced, and to transfer the money to 12 34 56 78 with MobilePay. In fact, trying to pay cash can cause problems -- so many people use the electronic methods, the doorman might not have any change. (This is often the case at the weird gigs I go to, where only 25 people attend anyway, and it barely breaks even for the promoter). I've heard of a trial to donate money to the homeless using a card, but it was only a trial. It's not normal to tip in a restaurant (or anywhere else). However, the post spoke of having to buy illegal alcohol at college, so the person is clearly in America. But there are always queues at the cash machines near Christiania in Copenhagen, where everyone goes to buy weed. That's the only remaining thing Danes use cash for...

BlackMonday 10y ago

In europe most of the population seems to prefer to pay in cash (for clothes, groceries, electronics etc. pp.).

ghaff 10y ago
Except Sweden apparently. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cashless-society-cards-phone-apps-leading-europe https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cash...
- BlackMonday 10y ago
  The article you linked was on HN's or reddit's frontpage recently, that's why I wrote "most". ;o) (plus I don't know enough about every european country obviously). EDIT - looking at the date of the article it might have been not the same, but a similar one.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    Anecdotally, I think you're generally right that Europe isn't as heavily into plastic (whether credit cards or something else) as the US. (Though they're pretty widely-accepted in the UK where I spend most of my European time.) I'll be in Germany at the end of the month and it sounds as if I should definitely expect to pay cash a lot of the time. Sweden does seem to be this cashless outlier for some reason. [EDIT: I gather it's a Nordics thing more generally.] I think it was also featured in a Freakonomics episode fairly recently.
    - Freak_NL 10y ago
      > Anecdotally, I think you're generally right that Europe isn't as heavily into plastic […] Depends on your definition of plastic. Debit cards are common here. Europeans tend not to use credit cards as much as Americans though; they are mostly used just for travelling or (international) internet purchases.
Freak_NL 10y ago

wink 10y ago

There's also these weird remote countries nobody has ever heard of where 1/3 (estimate, but more than 10%) of restaurants only take cash, paying amounts < 5$ still grants you a weird look at best, a nope or wtf at worst - and there are in general a ton of shops (bakery, butcher's, boothes, vending machines, etc) that don't take anything but cash, and usually still can't change a 50 :) Oh, by the way, one of these countries is Germany.

clamprecht 10y ago

I live in Argentina part of the time (I'm here right now). When I'm here, I don't even carry my wallet around, ever. I bring cash and my SUBE (public transit) card. I love it.

edko 10y ago

In many places that are not "First World", cash (especially foreign hard currency) is a way citizens have of protecting their assets from the greed of corrupt politicians.

andai 10y ago
Indeed there is much to be said for the value of diversifying your assets, and the same is true when it comes to physical and nonphysical currency. Now, where to put them...

valuearb 10y ago

"who are more than you'd think; who do you know who hasn't broken at law at least once or twice" You wrote this without an ounce of introspection, not thinking about what we classify as "crime" nowadays and how much are entirely victimless activities.

phil21 10y ago

Why do you feel it's a currency's place to (help) enforce the law? If all you can think of for things "people don't want tracked" is "crime" I don't think you've thought about the problem set very long. It's incredibly damaging to never have "things be in the past". One thing experience has taught us is that any electronic records generated will be kept indefinitely regardless of policy or law. I just don't understand folks who seem to be completely ok with any agency remotely curious in you being able to re-construct your entire spending history over your life. You might just be so boring you can't imagine hiding anything, but I think you're in the minority. This is also ignoring the additional transaction taxes private institutions put upon the entire consumer economy. All this so you can maybe do away with some crime (I just think payments will transition and simply cost more) for what amounts to convenience and security. As with all things, I think making that trade ends in long-term ruin.

jliptzin 10y ago

Here is just one example (of many that immediately pop into my head) of a recent situation where I needed to use cash for something completely legal - buying a birthday present for my significant other who I share credit cards with. He'd potentially see the purchase on our statement and so I paid cash to make sure the surprise wouldn't be ruined.

jonknee 10y ago

The real world isn't your college campus with everything provided. Cash is not rare in the real world, that's why there are so many ATMs!

jpindar 10y ago

>In my experience as a college student, it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime. You must live in a bubble then. I live in a beach town where there are many small restaurants, souvenir stores etc. that only take cash. (It's not a problem for the tourists because there are many ATMs). Once you leave your bubble there are also farm stands, yard sales and so on.