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15 work week is not possible, because nearly every job that requires any degree of thinking requires immersion. That's why programmers work 70 hour weeks - not

15 work week is not possible, because nearly every job that requires any degree of thinking requires immersion. That's why programmers work 70 hour weeks - not because they hurry too much, or their employers can't afford hiring more people - but because it means being most productive when you live your work.

aninhumer 10y ago
Even if it were true that 70(!) hour weeks were necessary (and I'm very sceptical of that), we could still work fewer of them than we do at the moment.
amelius 10y ago
Some people I know had a programming side-job for 2 days/week during college. So it is possible.
trendia 10y ago
Programmers will still work 70 hours a week (or more). How else would we get the money to pay for basic income?!
daleharvey 10y ago
Programmers who do work 70 hour weeks do not do it for various reasons, because they dont have any other responsibilities, because they really love their job, because they want to get more money / success, because they are being pressured into it by an immoral employer / industry. But they do not do it because it requires that amount of time to immerse yourself in a problem, I work pretty close to half that at most and do completely fine.
LyndsySimon 10y ago
> That's why programmers work 70 hour weeks Huh? I've worked my share of 70-hour weeks, but none of them have been as a developer. In my experience productivity tends to go negative after a certain point.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  I can do something mindlessly repetitive for 12 hours in a row with no problem, but if I need to apply judgment, expertise, or rational thought, I usually can go no more than 5 or 6 hours before my brain needs a rest. The focus starts to flag after 4, and the rate of decline increases after that. I assume by default that anyone programming for 70 hours a week is producing good code for 25 hours of it, marginal code for 20, bad code for 15, and godawful WTF garbage for 10. If the schedule is to work from 7 AM to noon, lunch for an hour, nap for an hour, and work from 2 PM to 7 PM, for each of the 7 days per week, that might actually get 50 hours of good code and 20 of decent code... until that person burns out hard after three months. 70 hour work weeks for knowledge workers is a very obvious sign of dangerously incompetent management. The only conceivable reason for it is to institute it as a temporary measure to meet a deadline when someone is actually going to die if you miss it. And then, you have to throttle the hours way back afterward to prevent resentment and burnout.
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    One of the rules of extreme programming is "never work overtime longer than one week in a row". Mental fatigue is a real thing; if you try to program while you have it, you'd be better off taking a nap.

aninhumer 10y ago

Even if it were true that 70(!) hour weeks were necessary (and I'm very sceptical of that), we could still work fewer of them than we do at the moment.

amelius 10y ago

Some people I know had a programming side-job for 2 days/week during college. So it is possible.

trendia 10y ago

Programmers will still work 70 hours a week (or more). How else would we get the money to pay for basic income?!

daleharvey 10y ago

Programmers who do work 70 hour weeks do not do it for various reasons, because they dont have any other responsibilities, because they really love their job, because they want to get more money / success, because they are being pressured into it by an immoral employer / industry. But they do not do it because it requires that amount of time to immerse yourself in a problem, I work pretty close to half that at most and do completely fine.

LyndsySimon 10y ago

> That's why programmers work 70 hour weeks Huh? I've worked my share of 70-hour weeks, but none of them have been as a developer. In my experience productivity tends to go negative after a certain point.

logfromblammo 10y ago
I can do something mindlessly repetitive for 12 hours in a row with no problem, but if I need to apply judgment, expertise, or rational thought, I usually can go no more than 5 or 6 hours before my brain needs a rest. The focus starts to flag after 4, and the rate of decline increases after that. I assume by default that anyone programming for 70 hours a week is producing good code for 25 hours of it, marginal code for 20, bad code for 15, and godawful WTF garbage for 10. If the schedule is to work from 7 AM to noon, lunch for an hour, nap for an hour, and work from 2 PM to 7 PM, for each of the 7 days per week, that might actually get 50 hours of good code and 20 of decent code... until that person burns out hard after three months. 70 hour work weeks for knowledge workers is a very obvious sign of dangerously incompetent management. The only conceivable reason for it is to institute it as a temporary measure to meet a deadline when someone is actually going to die if you miss it. And then, you have to throttle the hours way back afterward to prevent resentment and burnout.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  One of the rules of extreme programming is "never work overtime longer than one week in a row". Mental fatigue is a real thing; if you try to program while you have it, you'd be better off taking a nap.