13 ms·
Google Hangouts temporarily won’t support phone/video calls on Firefox
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y agoSurely Hangouts can work over WebRTC? Is it using a plugin in Chrome also?
- omouse 10y agoI was working on a WebRTC client in Angular a few years ago and basically Firefox was weird.
- mindcrash 10y agoThe WebRTC team has released a polyfill [0] for browser incompatibilities so that would not really be a excuse for them, especially given the fact they have some of the top web engineers around. [0] https://github.com/webrtc/adapter https://github.com/webrtc/adapter
- nwah1 10y agoYour experience from years ago, in the age of rapid releases, is like ancient history. WebRTC is supported on firefox, and I've used it with no problems.
- omouse 10y agolol thanks man, I know I'm an old-man in Internet years, I'm sure that it works now but then why is the Google Hangouts team temporarily not supporting it? which sites are you using webrtc on firefox?
- daenney 10y agoAs far as I remember it uses WebRTC on Chrome, that's how it manages to be plugin free there. But there's subtle differences in browser implementations w.r.t WebRTC, it's one of those... standards. WebRTC is also incredibly hard to debug from browsers.
- silverlight 10y agoOur WebRTC video calling system on Roll20 is used by around 50k people per week and works fine in both Chrome and Firefox.
- cpncrunch 10y agoSo is our WebRTC web conferencing platform. I just tested a firefox-to-chrome video call, and it works fine. Hangouts, however, wants me to install a plugin on firefox. WTF!?! There's no reason why hangouts can't work on Firefox. In my experience, firefox actually works better than Chrome, due to it having implemented the applyConstraints API. This is just laziness or evil on Google's part.
- NelsonMinar 10y agoI'm confused about this too. I thought WebRTC just worked everywhere now.
- karlding 10y agoSafari still does not support WebRTC, and users must enable Flash on sites that require it. They've merged in a few commits [1], but their implementation is still lacking [2]. [1] https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/210942 https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/210942 [2] http://caniuse.com/#search=webrtc http://caniuse.com/#search=webrtc
- ungzd 10y agoI see "Extension: Google Hangouts" in Chrome Task Manager[1], but I don't see anything Hangouts-related in chrome://extensions/. Seems that it's good old npapi plugin, but built-in into chrome, like Flash and NaCl. [1] http://imgur.com/a/HLpLf http://imgur.com/a/HLpLf
- vbernat 10y agoYou can use "--show-component-extension-options" flag to display hidden extensions.
- cpeterso 10y agoHangouts on Chrome uses NaCl for some visual processing (like hats), or at least it used to. So the NaCl code may show up as a plugin process.
- TD-Linux 10y agoMost of the nonstandard features that Hangouts uses are built into Chromium and the JS APIs it exposes to Hangouts. In particular, SDES, google-ICE, RTP data channels, and plan B are all nonstandard features exposed that way. [1] [1] https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/ https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/
- cpeterso 10y agoHangouts switched to WebRTC and NaCl (for video processing like hats) in Chrome back in 2014, but still requires plugins (NPAPI or ActiveX) for any other browsers. https://www.cnet.com/news/in-chrome-googles-hangouts-plugin-goes-extinct/ https://www.cnet.com/news/in-chrome-googles-hangouts-plugin-...
- midgetjones 10y agoDid it ever? I normally find with most Google services I have to open up Chrome, and figured it's probably just them trying to get me to switch browsers.
- mgkimsal 10y agosimilar experiences here - safari on mac - hangouts just plain doesn't work about 30% of the time (over last 12-18 months). I'll click a link, then after a minute of futzing around remember "oh yeah, this really only works in the latest chrome" and have to switch...
- gnicholas 10y agoI have wondered about this also, although I have found Chrome on my Mac to work poorly with Hangouts. Recently I had an issue during a Hangout and the people I was on with mentioned they also avoid Chrome for Hangouts. I had been using Firefox, but I guess now I'll have to rely on Safari. Or use Skype.
- TuringNYC 10y agoSame experience here. I wish they would just make Hangouts better rather than splitting efforts across Duo and Allo. A unified Mobile+Desktop solution is highly required so I can take conversations from one, continue them on another, and then bring them back to the original...which is why most of us switched to WhatsApp.
- vikeri 10y agoWeirdly enough I find that Firefox works better than Chrome with Hangouts a lot of the time
- wffurr 10y agoYeah Hangouts on Chrome forces webp, even if you have hardware h264 support, whereas Hangouts on Firefox / Safari will happily use your hardware h264 support. This is also why Macs get scorchingly hot when using Hangouts on Chrome.
- tyingq 10y agoThis makes it sound like they only received notice last October. Not true: https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plu...
- codemac 10y agoI can really only be cynical about this announcement, hoping to convince a few more firefox users to switch to chrome instead of supporting the open web.
- kajecounterhack 10y agoFWIW they link Firefox ESR, and October-now is only 2 quarters to migrate a complicated app. Sucks though, Firefox probably could have make a longer exception for them if it mattered to them.
- hackuser 10y agoThe announcement linked to above was made in October 2015, 16 months ago, and said the change would be made by the end of 2016.
- 65827 10y agoReally disappointed with Google more and more everyday. AOL 2.0?
- simplehuman 10y agoJust a few days back a projectzero post informed us how Google had told the proxy companies about upcoming TLS 1.3 change months back and that company didn't do anything about it. Google does the same now, ignoring something important known for months ahead.
- petters 10y agoNot really the same at all. The proxies were buggy and that time Google rolled back the change.
- witty_username 10y agoThe proxy companies behavior for TLS 1.3 is a bug and it's easier to fix; they just need to respond that they only support TLS 1.2 and below.
- y_u_no_rust 10y agoHangouts is just horrible, claiming then even support chrome is a stretch
- y_u_no_rust 10y agoHangouts is just horrible, claiming then even support chrome is a stretch
- ptrptr 10y agoWell then, this absolutely doesn't reflect badly on Google at all, does it?
- 65827 10y agoNope, they are a perfect company who can do no wrong on HN. Just try to point out something they screw up, an army will show up to obliterate you immediately. I guess this is the new phase of marketing, just make sure you dominate discussions everywhere, all the time.
- chc 10y agoAre you kidding? Google can barely throw away a cardboard box without a flood of HN comments exclaiming "embrace, extend, extinguish!" and calling them "the new Microsoft."
- jrockway 10y agoIt seems that both sides are well-represented here. That's true on a number of issues, and is what makes HN pretty unique among discussion sites.
- jonchang 10y agoI can think of 3 possible explanations for this "temporary issue" (that Google should have seen coming literal years ago): 1. Google is swinging its market share around in the desktop browser market to further squeeze Firefox, a much smaller competitor 2. Google hasn't allocated any resources to porting Hangouts away from NPAPI plugins presumably because it has already put Hangouts for the desktop on life support, focusing resources on a similar initiative like Allo or whatever the flavor of the month is 3. Mozilla somehow dropped the ball on writing a sufficiently capable WebRTC implementation despite having implemented a Hangouts / Skype competitor in Firefox Hello Any others?
- dragonwriter 10y agoYes, Google's already announced (when they announced shutting down the API) they are doing a major pivot for Hangouts to be an enterprise messaging app (which seems to have been quietly launched as Meet by Hangouts [0]), so presumably all the resources have gone into the redesign and not maintenance of the current, legacy consumer app. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/28/google-quietly-launches-meet-an-enterprise-friendly-version-of-hangouts/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/28/google-quietly-launches-me...
- cpeterso 10y ago> 3. Mozilla somehow dropped the ball on writing a sufficiently capable WebRTC implementation Hangouts on Chrome uses NaCl (for video processing like hats) and non-standard features of WebRTC that are not available in other browsers: https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/ https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/
- SquareWheel 10y agoI'm going to guess #2 is the most likely situation. They didn't allocate any resources to maintenance, and now the time has expired and they're scrambling to make a cross-compatible webapp that doesn't depend on plugins.
- geofft 10y agoWorth noting that Google Hangouts isn't entirely Google-developed: my understanding is that all of the old NPAPI plugin, some of the current browser codec support and server code, and most (?) of the enterprise Hangouts stuff is developed by Vidyo. http://blog.vidyo.com/vidyo-news/google-vidyo-vp9-webrtc/ http://blog.vidyo.com/vidyo-news/google-vidyo-vp9-webrtc/
- tlogan 10y agoFor me, this pretty much tells me that Google Hangouts is scheduled for deletion :( I do understand that some google services work only on Chrome but certain systems need to be cross-browser / cross-platform to become successful. For example, in early days MS Word could save documents into WordPerfect format - not because MS liked WordPerfect but because that was the easiest path to conquer the world. So as soon as a product starts dropping support for very popular platforms that can mean only two things: 1) the product rules the world in that segment or 2) company plans to sunset that product.
- mi100hael 10y agoI think it's just the opposite. Looking at Chrome's market share, I think they're banking on that product ruling enough of the world that the majority of users will force the minority on other browsers to switch.
- dandelion_lover 10y agoWhy use hangouts if https://meet.jit.si https://meet.jit.si works in Firefox flawlessly?
- Old_Thrashbarg 10y agoExactly, I've been using Jitsi Meet for over a year. It works in all browsers flawlessly, it's encrypted, it's open source and there's no account needed.
- nachtigall 10y agoHow does it compare to https://talky.io/ https://talky.io/? I'm looking for a Skype/Hangouts alternative (for talking, chat and Screensharing)
- cptskippy 10y agoBecause it's still a gChat client
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- abeyer 10y agoI'm not sure about firefox, but in chrome it requires you to install an extension with all sorts of unrelated permissions to share your screen. I nope'd out when I saw that.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jraines 10y agoHangouts is completely broken for me right now when trying to join a hangout via link. As far as I can tell, it's always trying to join calls with the wrong Google Account, and the control that used to be there for switching accounts is gone.
- vbernat 10y agoIt happens to me all the time. If you have been logged out of the account you want to use. You need to login through another mean (eg via Gmail), then come back to Hangout.
- acomar 10y agoYou can fix the account in the URL by changing the authuser parameter. You'll need to remember the order you signed into accounts and enter the right number, but at least it's a workaround. The account is controllable from the URL for all Google services. It's horrible UX but it's there.
- ungzd 10y ago- Both Chrome and Firefox remove npapi plugin support to move web forward - But Chrome leaves few plugins, including Hangouts, and makes them builtin - Now Hangouts does not work in Firefox, users think that Chrome is superior Party like it's 1999.
- rv11 10y agoI don't think they use any specific plugin, but use webRTC instead for hangouts
- ungzd 10y agoSeems that extension is involved: http://imgur.com/a/HLpLf http://imgur.com/a/HLpLf
- cpeterso 10y agoHangouts on Chrome uses NaCl for some visual processing (like hats), or at least it used to. So the NaCl code may show up as a plugin process. https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/ https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/
- cpeterso 10y agoHangouts uses a plugin (NPAPI or ActiveX) in browsers other than Chrome.
- TD-Linux 10y agoHangouts uses a bunch of non-standard Hangouts-specific APIs in Chrome. Maybe it's be best to call it "Google-RTC". https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/ https://webrtchacks.com/hangout-analysis-philipp-hancke/ In summary, they use weaker encryption than allowed by the spec, nonstandard ICE (firewall hole punching), nonstandard data channels, and an abandoned way to do multistream.
- awalton 10y agoUnfortunately, after knock-down, drag out fighting over the matter, it was learned that the Justice Department of the United States is entirely spineless, and Microsoft got away with their antitrust conviction with impunity. Meet the new boss, Google, same as the old boss, Microsoft.
- ravenstine 10y agoYet another reason for me to continue a divorce from Google. I may even leave Gmail at this point. So far, I have switched to Duck Duck Go for searches, switched to Chromium, use NewPipe instead of the YouTube app, and have disabled all Google software on my phone. I will still have to use Docs at my work, but my personal life will be almost free of Google when I get a viable alternative to Chromecast. I just can't continue to support a company that has morphed itself into Ballmer-era Microsoft and actively tries to destroy the web with abominations like AMP.
- mi100hael 10y agoAgreed. About a year ago I began the process of migrating away from Google/Apple/Microsoft/Dropbox services. It's important for the web to remain a decentralized network of servers, not a few walled gardens.
- cookiecaper 10y agoThe most important part of making this happen is revising the Soviet-era CFAA and the Copyright Act for the digital age.
- k-mcgrady 10y agoI recently switched to FastMail. Pretty happy with it so far and they also offer a really nice (free) IMAP import service which will allow you to move all you old email from Gmail to Fastmail (5 mins to setup and then it runs for a few hours).
- CobrastanJorji 10y agoI'm surprised that the one thing you couldn't replace was Chromecast. I like Chromecast, but I got the impression that Roku and the Amazon stick were pretty similar. Is there a particular feature of Chromecast that you find hard to replace? Also, I'm not sure that switching from YouTube's provided client to a third party YouTube client counts as divorcing yourself from Google.
- 10y ago
- nachtigall 10y agoI'll just leave this: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice (2014) http://robert.ocallahan.org/2014/08/choose-firefox-now-or-later-you-wont.html http://robert.ocallahan.org/2014/08/choose-firefox-now-or-la...
- Nightshaxx 10y agoI love the irony of the fact that this post is written on blogger, a Google platform.
- hueving 10y agoBlogger is very far from creating a monopoly on blogging platforms.
- eveningcoffee 10y agoBlogger did not start as Google platform but was acquired by it. Or what was the irony?
- fixermark 10y agoThat's basically true for all software. Unpopular options that no longer receive support recede, regardless of their price-point. Or should I also have an Opera instance hot and ready to run, just in case?
- hackuser 10y agoFirefox isn't just any software; the survival of the open web, and therefore open software in general (because the web is a major platform), depends in part on their marketshare.
- chappi42 10y agoWell then Mozilla better would spend their resources more wisely and refrain from political influenced decisions, e.g. Thunderbird, FirefoxOS, Brendan Eich. Mozilla/Firefox lost much respect from me (not that they will or should care;)
- obeattie 10y agoRegardless of how you feel about Google's motivations, this is a pretty dismal commentary on the state of browser interoperability.
- mi100hael 10y agoI think a large part of the problem is how many diverse applications are now being served through the browser. Interop always had problems and this is just the natural evolution of old issues like bad CSS rendering.
- kbrosnan 10y agoGoogle hangouts in Chrome uses Native Client. Which no other browser vendor has any interest in supporting. Webassembly is the path forward for such code as it is supported/planned support in Firefox, Edge, Chrome and Safari. They have had 18 months of notice that the end of plugins was coming.
- dikaiosune 10y agoI am betting that there are Chrome devs who feel that Firefox didn't deprecated NPAPI quickly enough - it was something like two and a half years ago when Chrome did the same.
- Fej 10y agoHow long is "temporarily"?
- Animats 10y agoWhat's a good alternative to Hangouts, then?
- lmedinas 10y agoNot sure if they are better but at least you have FB messenger and Skype. All have desktop/web clients with video support? If anyone knows anything with more privacy focus and mobile clients please reply.
- jbclements 10y agoLooks like another poster mentions "https://meet.jit.si" https://meet.jit.si". Ran a 10-second test, and it looks like it can successfully display my face. Haven't tried it for actual communication.
- cpeterso 10y agoappear.in and talky.io are nice and simple video chat services using WebRTC.
- omash 10y agoThe power of the monopoly to crush competitors and remove user choice.
- fixermark 10y agoIn what sense? If you want to use Hangouts but not Chrome, just install Chrome for the sole purpose of using Hangouts and use Firefox for everything else. Think of it as a heavyweight application that you only use one feature of.
- cryptarch 10y agoWhat's a good open-source alternative to Google Hangouts and Skype? I'd really love a video call tool the quality of Mumble; a few basic features, reasonable call quality, low-latency and fast reconnects. Skype and Hangouts never came close to that for me.
- javitury 10y agoThe most promising ones are ring.cx and tox.chat. Just note that they are in development and not stable yet.
- fixermark 10y agoNothing. Realtime multi-directional video over the Internet is pretty high on the pyramid of software complexity. There are a lot of corner-case problems that can only be solved by rolling up one's sleeves and building one-off solutions for a variety of hardware, OS, and browser quirks. To my knowledge, no open source project has attracted enough critical mass to have the army of supporters that can get in and solve those problems. It's boring, glory-free grunge work, so good luck finding people you aren't paying to get it done.
- hackuser 10y agoSome commenters recommend Jitsi: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13765289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13765289
- cpeterso 10y agoappear.in and talky.io are nice and simple video chat services using WebRTC.