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>Travis is well known to protect high performing team leaders no matter how abusive they are towards their employees. The HR team was known to be deftly[sic] af

>Travis is well known to protect high performing team leaders no matter how abusive they are towards their employees. The HR team was known to be deftly[sic] afraid of Travis’s tendency to blame and ridicule the women and yell at HR whenever they went in with complaints of abuse. I heard about Travis personally congratulating Mike#2 for meeting strict deadlines months after I complained to HR about my abuse. This is why I'm skeptical of Uber's promise to investigate these allegations. When I heard that they had retained Eric Holder to investigate, my knee-jerk reaction was petty and cynical: "Great, retain a Chicago politician so you know you'll get the answer you're paying for." I was a little disappointed in myself at the time, but damn. With this company, I'm starting to think that impression might have been on the money.

bphogan 10y ago
Exactly. It's not an independent investigation if you hire the investigators.
- tyre 10y ago
  Who else could hire the investigators? It's a tricky problem, but ultimately you rely on the investigators caring more about their reputation than any one contract. If it gets out that firm X doesn't do objective reviews, then future companies in hot water won't hire them. The real challenge here is that these investigators are not independent. Eric Holder has done prior work on behalf of Uber, which means he could reasonably be biased towards the company.
  - PhantomGremlin 10y ago
    Who else could hire the investigators? The independent directors on a company's board should hire the investigators, who then should report back to those directors. Of course, in most startups, just like in many public companies, "independent" directors often aren't.
  - x0x0 10y ago
    The board, to decide if it's time to fire Travis.
  - everybodyknows 10y ago
    Yes, the investigator's _reputation_ is put at stake. But, reputation in the eyes of whom? 1. The public at large, who want to see standards of civic probity upheld? Or, 2. Future clients, who will want value for their money? Delivering #2 requires writing up a designed narrative, in magisterial rhetoric. A narrative that hides all the dirt that isn't likely to come out anyway, and redirects culpability toward low-ranking dispensables, whether guilt or not.
    - travmatt 10y ago
      Eric 'too big to fail' Holder defined his career on #2.
      - everybodyknows 10y ago
        There's a curious parallel with a certain class of business managers who "extract brand value" by slowly debasing quality, then folding up shop. For example, Hollywood movie sequels, or for-profit colleges. For a big name like Holder, "folding up shop" would mean something like a beachfront retirement, in Malibu.
  - revscat 10y ago
    With a functional regulatory framework, you wouldn't need private entities handling this; public ones could.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - bbcbasic 10y ago
    Yes, now get me some AAA rated bonds.
- manigandham 10y ago
  Independent only means independent of the company's staff. Whether objective or partial to the company is a different story.
Redditshill 10y ago
As skeptical as I am with Uber, I'm still hoping that something will come up with the investigation. It also encourages me that more people are speaking up. The more bad press they get, the more pressure they'll have to have their "investigations" result in some discipline.
- analyst74 10y ago
  If this article is truthful, then the problem is coming from the top, not just one manager being abusive.
- mkolodny 10y ago
  I work at Uber. What happened to Susan Fowler and Amy is terrible. To give another side of the Uber story, I've seen nothing but respect on my team of ~25 engineers. Only a few of us are women, but also only a few of us are the "white male" stereotype that you see in the press. Everyone I've talked to on my team is aware of and upset about the lack of female engineers in tech. I saw Uber's CTO (Thuan Pham, a Vietnamese refugee) downstairs at Uber the day Susan Fowler posted her article. A woman who works at Uber came up to him, and asked him how he's doing. He said, "It's a tough time, but we'll get through it." She told him, "I'm sorry, I know how much you care", and gave him a hug. Arianna Huffington is on Uber's board of directors. She's in charge of helping Uber employees "lead healthier lives". In response to Susan Fowler's article, Arianna has been holding personal discussions with employees about what we're going to do to stop this type of thing from ever happening again. It's easy to stereotype a company, but at the end of the day you're talking about ~12,000 individuals. Many if not most of whom came from Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. I'm hopeful that these decisions didn't come from the top. It really may have been just a couple of individuals who did messed up things, and should/will be fired.
  - Redditshill 10y ago
    Thanks for sharing that -- I think it's a good reminder to not stereotype an entire company. Also, it's also a reminder that this scandal is unfortunate for all of those at Uber who aren't like this and still have to deal with the barrage of bad press and accusations from everyone from the media to those around them (friends, neighbors).
snappy173 10y ago
>"Great, retain a Chicago politician so you know you'll get the answer you're paying for." right. regardless of where you stand on his performance as attorney general, hiring eric holder is a political move. if uber actually cared about investigating this, they wouldn't have hired a politician.
- EpicEng 10y ago
  Eric Holder was AG. AG is not a political office, and he's not a politician. What you should be concerned with is the fact that he was associated with them previously and is a proponent of theirs.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    > AG is not a political office, and he's not a politician. AG is a Presidential appointment with Congressional confirmation. While those appointed are not necessarily politicians, it is most certainly a political position.
    - EpicEng 10y ago
      It is most certainly not. By your definition any appointee is a 'political position'. That term has a real meaning in the circles which matter (i.e., politics), and AG is not considered a political position. That's not to say an AG is completely separate from political realities, but the office is (supposed to be) non-partisan.
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        > That's not to say an AG is completely separate from political realities, but the office is (supposed to be) non-partisan. That must be why Trump fired Sally Yates then... /s Really, it's about as political as it gets. Or did you think Jeff Sessions would so much as be looked at under a Democratic president?
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > By your definition any appointee is a 'political position'. Direct Presidential appointees are absolutely political; cabinet members more than most. > That term has a real meaning in the circles which matter (i.e., politics), and AG is not considered a political position. It actually has a fairly vague and shifting meaning even within politics, but by virtually any of them the Attorney-General is very much a political position.
uptownfunk 10y ago
Maybe I've watched too much Suits and The Good Wife, but it just seems that it's all futile. They're a huge corp, if you file suit against them they'll hit back harder with bigger and badder lawyers, and you either settle out of court, or play the lotto with the court system and try your hand at a judgement with whatever lawyers you can afford. It's really sad how stacked the odds seem.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  Why is this being modded down? It's the truth. Big companies almost always come out on top in trials because they can afford the best lawyers, and they can afford to game the system to bankrupt their opponents by filing never-ending motions to delay and other tactics which increase the legal costs to the opponent. You're almost never going to get a positive result if you're a rank-and-file employee; your best course of action is to leave the company and find something better.
  - rodgerd 10y ago
    It's not just the best lawyers. Uber have already started contacting anyone who knows Susan Fowler, digging for dirt on her.
    - sah2ed 10y ago
      How can you be so sure it was Uber? Susan's tweet was intentionally vague [0]. You are forgetting that some past and present employees that could be directly implicated by Susan's evidence may also choose the smear campaign route to save their hide. This could range from the women in HR* who might get thrown under the bus by Uber for aiding and abetting, to the men that perpetrated the actual harassment. *Of course this scenario playing out is highly unlikely given Uber's history. [0] https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/835193441814392833 https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/835193441814392833
      - intended 10y ago
        Isn't uber known for this? I remember them responding to a lawsuit or something by hiring PIs to get dirt on people - stuff beyond the merits of the case. They've always ended up looking
brianpgordon 10y ago
Eric Holder certainly does already have an existing business relationship with Uber- http://bigstory.ap.org/article/01685274cc944196af9016ad0a875b72/eric-holder-weighs-uber-against-fingerprint-checks http://bigstory.ap.org/article/01685274cc944196af9016ad0a875...
- spaceflunky 10y ago
  Is it just me or are other people also constantly surprised by how many big names have their hands in the 'uber pot'? It's like there's a massive list of investors and shareholders who are all riding this "sure thing" to big riches. Which makes me wonder two things: 1.) is uber too big too fail? are there so many rich and powerful people invested that they will make uber succeed no matter or 2.) this thing could be the biggest investor flop in recent memory.
  - RodericDay 10y ago
    I hope they end up like Theranos.
    - ogezi 10y ago
      I want them to change instead of ending up like Theranos. If Uber went down, a lot of good people would be out of a job (both employees and drivers) and it would burn a lot investors, thus negatively affecting the funding landscape for years to come. To reiterate, I wish Uber to change. I don't wish them to fail.
      - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 10y ago
        Nah they need to fail. Lyft or another competitor would soak up the drivers immediately, a huge number of them already drive for both. Silicon valley alums of a top tech company are not going to be hurting for jobs in the near future. It sets the example that bullshit like this is not workable and will bring you down. There are no net downsides to uber falling.
selectodude 10y ago
>"Great, retain a Chicago politician so you know you'll get the answer you're paying for." Normally I don't care, but because I'm from Chicago and am officially very touchy about all the abuse the city catches, I'd like to correct the record as Eric Holder is from New York.
- brown9-2 10y ago
  and has never run for elected office.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - danso 10y ago
    But Attorney General is a political position, e.g. appointed by and serves at the pleasure of the U.S. President.
    - jjaredsimpson 10y ago
      So is Administrator of NASA. I don't think being appointed AG makes you a politician.
      - abtinf 10y ago
        "You think – excuse me – if you’ll pardon me – do you think American Presidents reward virtue? Do they choose their appointees on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed or on the basis of their political clout? Is it really true that political self-interest is nobler somehow than economic self-interest? You know, I think you’re taking a lot of things for granted. Just tell me where in the world you find these angels who are going to organize society for us ? Well, I don’t even trust you to do that." -Milton Friedman
- spraak 10y ago
  It sounds like they're using 'Chicago politician' as a character description (valid or not). Similar to how people might use Nazi (e.g. Grammar Nazi, or "You're such a Nazi!") etc.
tyingq 10y ago
More interesting, I think, that Uber has a standing relationship with the law firm Holder works for. Holder has previously worked on Uber's behalf: http://airport.blog.ajc.com/2016/06/15/former-u-s-attorney-general-eric-holder-backs-uber-in-letter-to-atlanta-mayor/ http://airport.blog.ajc.com/2016/06/15/former-u-s-attorney-g... He does have a credible image, but the announcement sort of co-opted that to make it seem like he might be somehow independent in his thinking. In reality, he's a lawyer being paid by Uber. As such, he isn't really inclined to find all the dirt...Depends on where said dirt is.
gmarx 10y ago
One doesn't retain Eric Holder to investigate. When a company has a race problem they pay a high profile member of that race some dough to appear to set things right. Does anyone know of such a case in which things were actually set right? I'm willing to believe that I've never heard the story because it's boring news, but still
watwut 10y ago
It seems that Uber has strong correlation between "abusive" and "seen as high performer".
Bombthecat 10y ago
One wonders if something from the investors world view went into uber..

bphogan 10y ago

Exactly. It's not an independent investigation if you hire the investigators.

tyre 10y ago
Who else could hire the investigators? It's a tricky problem, but ultimately you rely on the investigators caring more about their reputation than any one contract. If it gets out that firm X doesn't do objective reviews, then future companies in hot water won't hire them. The real challenge here is that these investigators are not independent. Eric Holder has done prior work on behalf of Uber, which means he could reasonably be biased towards the company.
- PhantomGremlin 10y ago
  Who else could hire the investigators? The independent directors on a company's board should hire the investigators, who then should report back to those directors. Of course, in most startups, just like in many public companies, "independent" directors often aren't.
- x0x0 10y ago
  The board, to decide if it's time to fire Travis.
- everybodyknows 10y ago
  Yes, the investigator's _reputation_ is put at stake. But, reputation in the eyes of whom? 1. The public at large, who want to see standards of civic probity upheld? Or, 2. Future clients, who will want value for their money? Delivering #2 requires writing up a designed narrative, in magisterial rhetoric. A narrative that hides all the dirt that isn't likely to come out anyway, and redirects culpability toward low-ranking dispensables, whether guilt or not.
  - travmatt 10y ago
    Eric 'too big to fail' Holder defined his career on #2.
    - everybodyknows 10y ago
      There's a curious parallel with a certain class of business managers who "extract brand value" by slowly debasing quality, then folding up shop. For example, Hollywood movie sequels, or for-profit colleges. For a big name like Holder, "folding up shop" would mean something like a beachfront retirement, in Malibu.
- revscat 10y ago
  With a functional regulatory framework, you wouldn't need private entities handling this; public ones could.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- bbcbasic 10y ago
  Yes, now get me some AAA rated bonds.
manigandham 10y ago
Independent only means independent of the company's staff. Whether objective or partial to the company is a different story.

Redditshill 10y ago

As skeptical as I am with Uber, I'm still hoping that something will come up with the investigation. It also encourages me that more people are speaking up. The more bad press they get, the more pressure they'll have to have their "investigations" result in some discipline.

analyst74 10y ago
If this article is truthful, then the problem is coming from the top, not just one manager being abusive.
mkolodny 10y ago
I work at Uber. What happened to Susan Fowler and Amy is terrible. To give another side of the Uber story, I've seen nothing but respect on my team of ~25 engineers. Only a few of us are women, but also only a few of us are the "white male" stereotype that you see in the press. Everyone I've talked to on my team is aware of and upset about the lack of female engineers in tech. I saw Uber's CTO (Thuan Pham, a Vietnamese refugee) downstairs at Uber the day Susan Fowler posted her article. A woman who works at Uber came up to him, and asked him how he's doing. He said, "It's a tough time, but we'll get through it." She told him, "I'm sorry, I know how much you care", and gave him a hug. Arianna Huffington is on Uber's board of directors. She's in charge of helping Uber employees "lead healthier lives". In response to Susan Fowler's article, Arianna has been holding personal discussions with employees about what we're going to do to stop this type of thing from ever happening again. It's easy to stereotype a company, but at the end of the day you're talking about ~12,000 individuals. Many if not most of whom came from Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. I'm hopeful that these decisions didn't come from the top. It really may have been just a couple of individuals who did messed up things, and should/will be fired.
- Redditshill 10y ago
  Thanks for sharing that -- I think it's a good reminder to not stereotype an entire company. Also, it's also a reminder that this scandal is unfortunate for all of those at Uber who aren't like this and still have to deal with the barrage of bad press and accusations from everyone from the media to those around them (friends, neighbors).

snappy173 10y ago

>"Great, retain a Chicago politician so you know you'll get the answer you're paying for." right. regardless of where you stand on his performance as attorney general, hiring eric holder is a political move. if uber actually cared about investigating this, they wouldn't have hired a politician.

EpicEng 10y ago
Eric Holder was AG. AG is not a political office, and he's not a politician. What you should be concerned with is the fact that he was associated with them previously and is a proponent of theirs.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  > AG is not a political office, and he's not a politician. AG is a Presidential appointment with Congressional confirmation. While those appointed are not necessarily politicians, it is most certainly a political position.
  - EpicEng 10y ago
    It is most certainly not. By your definition any appointee is a 'political position'. That term has a real meaning in the circles which matter (i.e., politics), and AG is not considered a political position. That's not to say an AG is completely separate from political realities, but the office is (supposed to be) non-partisan.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      > That's not to say an AG is completely separate from political realities, but the office is (supposed to be) non-partisan. That must be why Trump fired Sally Yates then... /s Really, it's about as political as it gets. Or did you think Jeff Sessions would so much as be looked at under a Democratic president?
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > By your definition any appointee is a 'political position'. Direct Presidential appointees are absolutely political; cabinet members more than most. > That term has a real meaning in the circles which matter (i.e., politics), and AG is not considered a political position. It actually has a fairly vague and shifting meaning even within politics, but by virtually any of them the Attorney-General is very much a political position.

uptownfunk 10y ago

Maybe I've watched too much Suits and The Good Wife, but it just seems that it's all futile. They're a huge corp, if you file suit against them they'll hit back harder with bigger and badder lawyers, and you either settle out of court, or play the lotto with the court system and try your hand at a judgement with whatever lawyers you can afford. It's really sad how stacked the odds seem.

Arizhel 10y ago
Why is this being modded down? It's the truth. Big companies almost always come out on top in trials because they can afford the best lawyers, and they can afford to game the system to bankrupt their opponents by filing never-ending motions to delay and other tactics which increase the legal costs to the opponent. You're almost never going to get a positive result if you're a rank-and-file employee; your best course of action is to leave the company and find something better.
- rodgerd 10y ago
  It's not just the best lawyers. Uber have already started contacting anyone who knows Susan Fowler, digging for dirt on her.
  - sah2ed 10y ago
    How can you be so sure it was Uber? Susan's tweet was intentionally vague [0]. You are forgetting that some past and present employees that could be directly implicated by Susan's evidence may also choose the smear campaign route to save their hide. This could range from the women in HR* who might get thrown under the bus by Uber for aiding and abetting, to the men that perpetrated the actual harassment. *Of course this scenario playing out is highly unlikely given Uber's history. [0] https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/835193441814392833 https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/835193441814392833
    - intended 10y ago
      Isn't uber known for this? I remember them responding to a lawsuit or something by hiring PIs to get dirt on people - stuff beyond the merits of the case. They've always ended up looking

brianpgordon 10y ago

Eric Holder certainly does already have an existing business relationship with Uber- http://bigstory.ap.org/article/01685274cc944196af9016ad0a875b72/eric-holder-weighs-uber-against-fingerprint-checks http://bigstory.ap.org/article/01685274cc944196af9016ad0a875...

spaceflunky 10y ago
Is it just me or are other people also constantly surprised by how many big names have their hands in the 'uber pot'? It's like there's a massive list of investors and shareholders who are all riding this "sure thing" to big riches. Which makes me wonder two things: 1.) is uber too big too fail? are there so many rich and powerful people invested that they will make uber succeed no matter or 2.) this thing could be the biggest investor flop in recent memory.
- RodericDay 10y ago
  I hope they end up like Theranos.
  - ogezi 10y ago
    I want them to change instead of ending up like Theranos. If Uber went down, a lot of good people would be out of a job (both employees and drivers) and it would burn a lot investors, thus negatively affecting the funding landscape for years to come. To reiterate, I wish Uber to change. I don't wish them to fail.
    - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 10y ago
      Nah they need to fail. Lyft or another competitor would soak up the drivers immediately, a huge number of them already drive for both. Silicon valley alums of a top tech company are not going to be hurting for jobs in the near future. It sets the example that bullshit like this is not workable and will bring you down. There are no net downsides to uber falling.

selectodude 10y ago

>"Great, retain a Chicago politician so you know you'll get the answer you're paying for." Normally I don't care, but because I'm from Chicago and am officially very touchy about all the abuse the city catches, I'd like to correct the record as Eric Holder is from New York.

brown9-2 10y ago
and has never run for elected office.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- danso 10y ago
  But Attorney General is a political position, e.g. appointed by and serves at the pleasure of the U.S. President.
  - jjaredsimpson 10y ago
    So is Administrator of NASA. I don't think being appointed AG makes you a politician.
    - abtinf 10y ago
      "You think – excuse me – if you’ll pardon me – do you think American Presidents reward virtue? Do they choose their appointees on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed or on the basis of their political clout? Is it really true that political self-interest is nobler somehow than economic self-interest? You know, I think you’re taking a lot of things for granted. Just tell me where in the world you find these angels who are going to organize society for us ? Well, I don’t even trust you to do that." -Milton Friedman
spraak 10y ago
It sounds like they're using 'Chicago politician' as a character description (valid or not). Similar to how people might use Nazi (e.g. Grammar Nazi, or "You're such a Nazi!") etc.

tyingq 10y ago

More interesting, I think, that Uber has a standing relationship with the law firm Holder works for. Holder has previously worked on Uber's behalf: http://airport.blog.ajc.com/2016/06/15/former-u-s-attorney-general-eric-holder-backs-uber-in-letter-to-atlanta-mayor/ http://airport.blog.ajc.com/2016/06/15/former-u-s-attorney-g... He does have a credible image, but the announcement sort of co-opted that to make it seem like he might be somehow independent in his thinking. In reality, he's a lawyer being paid by Uber. As such, he isn't really inclined to find all the dirt...Depends on where said dirt is.

gmarx 10y ago

One doesn't retain Eric Holder to investigate. When a company has a race problem they pay a high profile member of that race some dough to appear to set things right. Does anyone know of such a case in which things were actually set right? I'm willing to believe that I've never heard the story because it's boring news, but still

watwut 10y ago

It seems that Uber has strong correlation between "abusive" and "seen as high performer".

Bombthecat 10y ago

One wonders if something from the investors world view went into uber..