8 ms·

I would strongly encourage anyone looking for new perceptions that aid in concentration and/or creativity to first really try, and properly try, and without giv

I would strongly encourage anyone looking for new perceptions that aid in concentration and/or creativity to first really try, and properly try, and without giving up too soon, the art of meditation. It's cheaper, safer, longer-lasting, and most certainly a higher-quality experience once properly learned.

akud 10y ago
I'll second that. There is nothing that will change your life more than developing a daily meditation practice. My mindfulness practice helps me to achieve direct insights in software engineering, though that's not the reason I do it. I do it for the insights into my own psyche, and for my mental health. It just happens to be the case that quieting the chatter in you mind will help you step out unproductive thought patterns in engineering more quickly.
- mistermann 10y ago
  Does meditation quiet the mental chatter only while meditating, or do you find it has a calming effect in general throughout the day? (Did you perhaps alter other aspects of your life as well to contribute to that, such as reducing exposure to the news? Something else I am considering.)
  - akud 10y ago
    I would say it has a calming effect throughout the day, because when you sit you practice the mental activity of bringing your attention to the present moment. It's like building a muscle; when the muscle is stronger you can use it throughout the day. At first it's very hard to control your attention, but with practice you get better at it, and will start to notice your mind going off into repetitive thought patterns sooner.
    - neom 10y ago
      The above has been my experience also. It's sorta like I discovered how to interface with my mind? I can kinda be like... yo, what do you think about this? listen for a bit to what is "said" and then move on.
BozeWolf 10y ago
LSD happens to be really really cheap! Like €4,- so microdosing is probably cheaper than smoking. They say it also lasts for many hours. The rest of your points are still valid though :)
- csp256 10y ago
  The trip from LSD lasts many hours. The peace of mind lasts for days. That calm can let a person relax when they elsewise would not be able to. The obvious analogy (though it isnt perfect) is that a vacation helps you even once you are back at work: even once the LSD has worn off the fresh memory of being at peace with yourself can help marvelously.
neom 10y ago
I cannot agree with this enough. I have a very very very rigid morning routine that includes deep breathing and internal listening. I started doing this when DigitalOcean began to scale and my Dr. prescribed Fluoxetine, I learned about meditation for concentration and creativity. Not only was I able to manage my stress better and curb my adderall usage, but I also became more focused and sharper. Edit: I've tried all the psychedelics ad nauseum, fun but not for me when it comes to working. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- mistermann 10y ago
  Can you suggest where one can start learning "how" to meditate?
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    Your local library, or nearest equivalent is a good place to start. Read some books on the subject. Meditation is one of those things that you can get to from a lot of different, equally valid directions. Just be careful that you're getting into meditation for its own sake, and not something culty/religious.
    - kixiQu 10y ago
      You still get the benefits if you are religious and approaching it from that angle, though!
      - M_Grey 10y ago
        Yes, definitely, I realize that I what I said could be misconstrued. I meant, more or less, that you can run into some pretty shady/silly practices out there attached to meditation. Most religions do have a tradition of meditation, whether or not their adherents are aware of it.
  - b6 10y ago
    I liked _Mindfulness in Plain English_: http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english.php http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_eng...
trentmb 10y ago
Or just go to bed at a reasonable hour.
krisoft 10y ago
What would you recommend, how could one start meditating? Is there a practice, or book or something you would specifically recommend? And what time interval would be not "too soon" in your opinion?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- neom 10y ago
  Not directly about mediation but helped me get into it: The Bhagavad Gita - (I grew up Christian in rural Scotland - no religious slant here)
- e1g 10y ago
  I am a huge supporter of Headspace (the app), and 4 other people in my life stuck with it after passing through many other options. Headspace offers a broad library of targeted programs, and I can pick a topic that causes the most friction right now - be it anxiety, productivity, relationships, health, etc. Each program has a supporting structure and provides continuity for my daily practice. I feel like I'm taking new baby steps every day, and that sense of progress is motivating for me. I decide on my time commitment (for me it's 10 minutes), and just put in headphones and sit down. I have my phone and headphones nearly all the time, so I've done this on the train, in the park during lunch, on a side street bench, in a taxi, etc. In the year I've been using it, I have never finished a 10-minute session without feeling significantly lighter and more composed when I got up. I still don't do it daily (humans, hey), but for me it was the only thing that stuck. Give it couple weeks.
  - bluebeard 10y ago
    I've done the first free 10 days and was surprised by the results from something so simple.
- tclancy 10y ago
  I've done a fair bit of reading for it, but I have to say the Calm app is the thing that really got me to stick with it. The presenter works for me (some people swear by other apps, I think it's going to be a matter of taste) and there's a bit of commitment there that guilted me into sticking with it. There's also a free 7 day trial so there's no cost to trying.
kobeya 10y ago
You're comparing apples to oranges though.
- spraak 10y ago
  If that's so then I'd say apples (LSD) and oranges (meditation) are both fruits of inner discovery and empowerment. Meditation is a much more sustainable, healthy solution, though
  - criddell 10y ago
    You really should try both though.
rrivers 10y ago
Chiming in to fully support - the benefits are clear and until you have actively put the time into learning and practicing it will be hard to recognize them. I recommend beginning with some Guided meditations (just search until you find some you like) no more than 10 minutes to start. Once you feel you have familiarized yourself with techniques continue without the guide. 20 minutes a day - I personally do it in the AM after a run - is all it takes. Better concentration, focus, helped me personally "slow down" my impulsive reactions, better relationship with my business partner (more patience), and a better sense of self. The list really does go on and yours will be unique to you. Try it!
M_Grey 10y ago
It took me years... years... but the result of meditation (and some CBT in there to guide the process) is that I went from daily, crippling anxiety to virtually none at all now. It was harder than taking a pill at first, but I see where the people who went down the benzodiazepine road are today, and for me at least, I know I made the right choice.
- mistermann 10y ago
  To those who've heard of CBT but don't appreciate "what it is", I found this 30 minute video very informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEsYiCDoJks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEsYiCDoJks
bsenftner 10y ago
For the a-type personalities that can't see themselves meditating, try the triple combination of a 20+ minute cardio workout while meditating, and additionally give up alcohol. The triplicate combo is amazing for your body and your mind in so many dimensions. I use guided visualization meditations, sorta like trippy radio drama, and the workouts virtually disappear. Plus, you start looking great, which is a nice bonus on top of feeling self actualized.
- api 10y ago
  I wi second giving up alcohol. It's a CNS depressant whose effects last longer than most users realize. Is still have it every now and then but I notice a softer brain for at least 48 hours after.
gomijacogeo 10y ago
Regardless of the merits of meditation, this post is a textbook case of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Didn't help? Well, then you didn't _really_ try. Not for you? You didn't properly try. Had better effects from something else? You gave up too soon. Anything with this much up-front effort to derail falsifiability merits skepticism.
- hellofunk 10y ago
  Sorry you're so skeptical, but a lot of people dismiss meditation after a superficial experiment, without any real understanding of what it its.
pmoriarty 10y ago
"It's cheaper, safer, longer-lasting, and most certainly a higher-quality experience once properly learned." A lot of people say this, but most of them have never tried psychedelics at all, much less had high-dose, strong trips. In those cases, I'm not sure they know what they're talking about. There are others, like Ram Dass, who definitely have had strong trips, and many trips at that. They tend to have a much more nuanced view of the value of psychedelics. Instead of merely saying "meditation is better", they can actually have a meaningful conversation on the relative value of the two approaches. To anyone interested in another side of the subject, I recommend The Paisley Gate by Erik Davis.[1] In this and other talks, Davis explores the historical role of psychedelics in bringing many practitioners to Eastern religions and meditation, and their continuing role in enhancing the practice. [1] - https://techgnosis.com/tantra-of-psychedelics/ https://techgnosis.com/tantra-of-psychedelics/
- quintushoratius 10y ago
  > "A lot of people say this, but most of them have never tried psychedelics at all, much less had high-dose, strong trips. In those cases, I'm not sure they know what they're talking about." What you say is true, but meditation comes with two major benefits over recreational drugs of any type: it's not illegal, and you (the meditator) have control over the quality. It's a good place to start; you can easily try something different if it doesn't work, with no regrets.
  - pmoriarty 10y ago
    There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. Yes, meditation is legal, and yes there is some control over the meditation experience (though how much control varies from person to person.. some people do seem to have negative experiences and have meditation bring up material they are not ready to deal with, especially without a guide). On the other hand, most people agree that to get serious results from meditation you have to put in a lot of effort and practice it for a relatively long time. For many people that amount of effort and dedication is unrealistic, especially if all they have to go on to believe that it will eventually pay off is somebody else's word. Psychedelics, on the other hand, provide virtually instant results. They are also relatively easily available to anyone, requiring almost no effort and no dedication to a long-term regimen of practice. There's no free lunch, however, and so psychedelics do come with their own risks -- risks that can be mitigated to a great extent by thorough preparation, having an experienced sitter, having the proper mind set, etc. But the risks can not be eliminated altogether. Further, while a psychedelic experience can be profound, it is usually short-lived unless the insights gained during the experience are integrated constructively and put in to practice somehow in one's life -- something most people are not trained to do or even realizing they could/should be doing. A long term meditative practice, on the other hand, will almost by definition have long-term effects. Another potential benefit of psychedelics is that the access they provide to non-ordinary states of consciousness and mystical experience, and the very real questions they pose about the nature of reality could ignite in the prepared mind a need to seek and perhaps to be open to trying things like meditation. They could also give a glimpse of what could finally be attained through long, hard practice, and some even continue to use psychedelics to enhance their meditative or spiritual practices. I know in my own case, my experience with psychedelics ignited a life-long, deep interest in philosophy, religion, meditation, other means of attaining altered states of consciousness, and in what lies beyond the appearance of reality. Would I have gotten interested in those things otherwise? Possibly, but I doubt they would have been as important to me had I not had the glimpses of other worlds and other possibilities that psychedelics provided. I know I am far from the only on in feeling this way. I've heard many others credit their psychedelic experiences in similar ways. From meditation I've learned to deal better with stress, to relax more, and not to get caught up so much in my emotions. Those are great skills to have, but not even remotely close to a psychedelic experience. Some long-time practitioners have reported "enlightenment" or "kensho" experiences with meditation, but there's no guarantee you'll ever have one, and not likely that it'll happen without a ton of practice (some say many lifetime's worth). Even then, those types of experiences in meditation are considered merely another step on the path, a very, very long path. All in all, this is a complicated subject, without clear cut answers regarding which approach is "better".
jahaja 10y ago
The practice of meditation makes me curious. Isn't the active ingredient of it just to take a break from outside stimulation for a while rather than to go through all the requirements of formal meditation - like not allowing your mind to wander off?
- johnfn 10y ago
  This is a common misunderstanding about meditation. In reality, the requirements of formal meditation are exactly what makes it work. Just taking a break does not have the same effects at all. It's really hard to explain why- it feels to me like it's a weird quirk of the mind at times, because of how it only works if you follow the steps precisely. At times I feel like it's the focus that you constantly bring yourself back into that helps. At others, I think it's the recognition of all the thoughts that are swirling around your head. At others, I think it's the anti-anxiolytic effect of simply dropping your worries. I don't understand it at all. But it works.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- physicsyogi 10y ago
  When I meditate, what my mind does or doesn’t do makes no difference. It really has nothing to do with me. I pay no attention to it. I basically sit as if I am dead, not responding to anything internal or external. If thoughts come, they come. If thoughts don’t come, they don’t come. Either way, I simply sit. It's oddly relaxing and energizing at the same time.

akud 10y ago

I'll second that. There is nothing that will change your life more than developing a daily meditation practice. My mindfulness practice helps me to achieve direct insights in software engineering, though that's not the reason I do it. I do it for the insights into my own psyche, and for my mental health. It just happens to be the case that quieting the chatter in you mind will help you step out unproductive thought patterns in engineering more quickly.

mistermann 10y ago
Does meditation quiet the mental chatter only while meditating, or do you find it has a calming effect in general throughout the day? (Did you perhaps alter other aspects of your life as well to contribute to that, such as reducing exposure to the news? Something else I am considering.)
- akud 10y ago
  I would say it has a calming effect throughout the day, because when you sit you practice the mental activity of bringing your attention to the present moment. It's like building a muscle; when the muscle is stronger you can use it throughout the day. At first it's very hard to control your attention, but with practice you get better at it, and will start to notice your mind going off into repetitive thought patterns sooner.
  - neom 10y ago
    The above has been my experience also. It's sorta like I discovered how to interface with my mind? I can kinda be like... yo, what do you think about this? listen for a bit to what is "said" and then move on.

BozeWolf 10y ago

LSD happens to be really really cheap! Like €4,- so microdosing is probably cheaper than smoking. They say it also lasts for many hours. The rest of your points are still valid though :)

csp256 10y ago
The trip from LSD lasts many hours. The peace of mind lasts for days. That calm can let a person relax when they elsewise would not be able to. The obvious analogy (though it isnt perfect) is that a vacation helps you even once you are back at work: even once the LSD has worn off the fresh memory of being at peace with yourself can help marvelously.

neom 10y ago

I cannot agree with this enough. I have a very very very rigid morning routine that includes deep breathing and internal listening. I started doing this when DigitalOcean began to scale and my Dr. prescribed Fluoxetine, I learned about meditation for concentration and creativity. Not only was I able to manage my stress better and curb my adderall usage, but I also became more focused and sharper. Edit: I've tried all the psychedelics ad nauseum, fun but not for me when it comes to working. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

mistermann 10y ago
Can you suggest where one can start learning "how" to meditate?
- M_Grey 10y ago
  Your local library, or nearest equivalent is a good place to start. Read some books on the subject. Meditation is one of those things that you can get to from a lot of different, equally valid directions. Just be careful that you're getting into meditation for its own sake, and not something culty/religious.
  - kixiQu 10y ago
    You still get the benefits if you are religious and approaching it from that angle, though!
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      Yes, definitely, I realize that I what I said could be misconstrued. I meant, more or less, that you can run into some pretty shady/silly practices out there attached to meditation. Most religions do have a tradition of meditation, whether or not their adherents are aware of it.
- b6 10y ago
  I liked _Mindfulness in Plain English_: http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english.php http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_eng...

trentmb 10y ago

Or just go to bed at a reasonable hour.

krisoft 10y ago

What would you recommend, how could one start meditating? Is there a practice, or book or something you would specifically recommend? And what time interval would be not "too soon" in your opinion?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
neom 10y ago
Not directly about mediation but helped me get into it: The Bhagavad Gita - (I grew up Christian in rural Scotland - no religious slant here)
e1g 10y ago
I am a huge supporter of Headspace (the app), and 4 other people in my life stuck with it after passing through many other options. Headspace offers a broad library of targeted programs, and I can pick a topic that causes the most friction right now - be it anxiety, productivity, relationships, health, etc. Each program has a supporting structure and provides continuity for my daily practice. I feel like I'm taking new baby steps every day, and that sense of progress is motivating for me. I decide on my time commitment (for me it's 10 minutes), and just put in headphones and sit down. I have my phone and headphones nearly all the time, so I've done this on the train, in the park during lunch, on a side street bench, in a taxi, etc. In the year I've been using it, I have never finished a 10-minute session without feeling significantly lighter and more composed when I got up. I still don't do it daily (humans, hey), but for me it was the only thing that stuck. Give it couple weeks.
- bluebeard 10y ago
  I've done the first free 10 days and was surprised by the results from something so simple.
tclancy 10y ago
I've done a fair bit of reading for it, but I have to say the Calm app is the thing that really got me to stick with it. The presenter works for me (some people swear by other apps, I think it's going to be a matter of taste) and there's a bit of commitment there that guilted me into sticking with it. There's also a free 7 day trial so there's no cost to trying.

kobeya 10y ago

You're comparing apples to oranges though.

spraak 10y ago
If that's so then I'd say apples (LSD) and oranges (meditation) are both fruits of inner discovery and empowerment. Meditation is a much more sustainable, healthy solution, though
- criddell 10y ago
  You really should try both though.

rrivers 10y ago

Chiming in to fully support - the benefits are clear and until you have actively put the time into learning and practicing it will be hard to recognize them. I recommend beginning with some Guided meditations (just search until you find some you like) no more than 10 minutes to start. Once you feel you have familiarized yourself with techniques continue without the guide. 20 minutes a day - I personally do it in the AM after a run - is all it takes. Better concentration, focus, helped me personally "slow down" my impulsive reactions, better relationship with my business partner (more patience), and a better sense of self. The list really does go on and yours will be unique to you. Try it!

M_Grey 10y ago

It took me years... years... but the result of meditation (and some CBT in there to guide the process) is that I went from daily, crippling anxiety to virtually none at all now. It was harder than taking a pill at first, but I see where the people who went down the benzodiazepine road are today, and for me at least, I know I made the right choice.

mistermann 10y ago
To those who've heard of CBT but don't appreciate "what it is", I found this 30 minute video very informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEsYiCDoJks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEsYiCDoJks

bsenftner 10y ago

For the a-type personalities that can't see themselves meditating, try the triple combination of a 20+ minute cardio workout while meditating, and additionally give up alcohol. The triplicate combo is amazing for your body and your mind in so many dimensions. I use guided visualization meditations, sorta like trippy radio drama, and the workouts virtually disappear. Plus, you start looking great, which is a nice bonus on top of feeling self actualized.

api 10y ago
I wi second giving up alcohol. It's a CNS depressant whose effects last longer than most users realize. Is still have it every now and then but I notice a softer brain for at least 48 hours after.

gomijacogeo 10y ago

Regardless of the merits of meditation, this post is a textbook case of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Didn't help? Well, then you didn't _really_ try. Not for you? You didn't properly try. Had better effects from something else? You gave up too soon. Anything with this much up-front effort to derail falsifiability merits skepticism.

hellofunk 10y ago
Sorry you're so skeptical, but a lot of people dismiss meditation after a superficial experiment, without any real understanding of what it its.

pmoriarty 10y ago

"It's cheaper, safer, longer-lasting, and most certainly a higher-quality experience once properly learned." A lot of people say this, but most of them have never tried psychedelics at all, much less had high-dose, strong trips. In those cases, I'm not sure they know what they're talking about. There are others, like Ram Dass, who definitely have had strong trips, and many trips at that. They tend to have a much more nuanced view of the value of psychedelics. Instead of merely saying "meditation is better", they can actually have a meaningful conversation on the relative value of the two approaches. To anyone interested in another side of the subject, I recommend The Paisley Gate by Erik Davis.[1] In this and other talks, Davis explores the historical role of psychedelics in bringing many practitioners to Eastern religions and meditation, and their continuing role in enhancing the practice. [1] - https://techgnosis.com/tantra-of-psychedelics/ https://techgnosis.com/tantra-of-psychedelics/

quintushoratius 10y ago
> "A lot of people say this, but most of them have never tried psychedelics at all, much less had high-dose, strong trips. In those cases, I'm not sure they know what they're talking about." What you say is true, but meditation comes with two major benefits over recreational drugs of any type: it's not illegal, and you (the meditator) have control over the quality. It's a good place to start; you can easily try something different if it doesn't work, with no regrets.
- pmoriarty 10y ago
  There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. Yes, meditation is legal, and yes there is some control over the meditation experience (though how much control varies from person to person.. some people do seem to have negative experiences and have meditation bring up material they are not ready to deal with, especially without a guide). On the other hand, most people agree that to get serious results from meditation you have to put in a lot of effort and practice it for a relatively long time. For many people that amount of effort and dedication is unrealistic, especially if all they have to go on to believe that it will eventually pay off is somebody else's word. Psychedelics, on the other hand, provide virtually instant results. They are also relatively easily available to anyone, requiring almost no effort and no dedication to a long-term regimen of practice. There's no free lunch, however, and so psychedelics do come with their own risks -- risks that can be mitigated to a great extent by thorough preparation, having an experienced sitter, having the proper mind set, etc. But the risks can not be eliminated altogether. Further, while a psychedelic experience can be profound, it is usually short-lived unless the insights gained during the experience are integrated constructively and put in to practice somehow in one's life -- something most people are not trained to do or even realizing they could/should be doing. A long term meditative practice, on the other hand, will almost by definition have long-term effects. Another potential benefit of psychedelics is that the access they provide to non-ordinary states of consciousness and mystical experience, and the very real questions they pose about the nature of reality could ignite in the prepared mind a need to seek and perhaps to be open to trying things like meditation. They could also give a glimpse of what could finally be attained through long, hard practice, and some even continue to use psychedelics to enhance their meditative or spiritual practices. I know in my own case, my experience with psychedelics ignited a life-long, deep interest in philosophy, religion, meditation, other means of attaining altered states of consciousness, and in what lies beyond the appearance of reality. Would I have gotten interested in those things otherwise? Possibly, but I doubt they would have been as important to me had I not had the glimpses of other worlds and other possibilities that psychedelics provided. I know I am far from the only on in feeling this way. I've heard many others credit their psychedelic experiences in similar ways. From meditation I've learned to deal better with stress, to relax more, and not to get caught up so much in my emotions. Those are great skills to have, but not even remotely close to a psychedelic experience. Some long-time practitioners have reported "enlightenment" or "kensho" experiences with meditation, but there's no guarantee you'll ever have one, and not likely that it'll happen without a ton of practice (some say many lifetime's worth). Even then, those types of experiences in meditation are considered merely another step on the path, a very, very long path. All in all, this is a complicated subject, without clear cut answers regarding which approach is "better".

jahaja 10y ago

The practice of meditation makes me curious. Isn't the active ingredient of it just to take a break from outside stimulation for a while rather than to go through all the requirements of formal meditation - like not allowing your mind to wander off?

johnfn 10y ago
This is a common misunderstanding about meditation. In reality, the requirements of formal meditation are exactly what makes it work. Just taking a break does not have the same effects at all. It's really hard to explain why- it feels to me like it's a weird quirk of the mind at times, because of how it only works if you follow the steps precisely. At times I feel like it's the focus that you constantly bring yourself back into that helps. At others, I think it's the recognition of all the thoughts that are swirling around your head. At others, I think it's the anti-anxiolytic effect of simply dropping your worries. I don't understand it at all. But it works.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
physicsyogi 10y ago
When I meditate, what my mind does or doesn’t do makes no difference. It really has nothing to do with me. I pay no attention to it. I basically sit as if I am dead, not responding to anything internal or external. If thoughts come, they come. If thoughts don’t come, they don’t come. Either way, I simply sit. It's oddly relaxing and energizing at the same time.