6 ms·

Just 4 miles from Center City, a heroin hellscape hidden in plain sight

27 points by shawndumas 10y ago

erentz 10y ago
I visited Philly a couple of times last year while staying in NJ. I was really impressed with the downtown area, it was clearly a nice city with tonnes of potential. Then we went for an excursion to somewhere on the west side of the river and wound up driving for a few miles through a hellscape of run down poor urban neighborhoods that were depressing, and frankly scary. It blew my mind that an area like that existed. It surprised me such a well laid out urban area right on the fringe of a major city would be in such bad shape, I expected it to be full of hipsters.
- tacostakohashi 10y ago
  Let me guess, you're not from the U.S.? This is a fundamental thing with U.S. cities, the nice parts and the shady parts are so close, just blocks from each other in parts. In other places (with welfare, wealth redistribution, and suchlike), the gradient between the nice and shady parts of town is so much more gradual.
- spyspy 10y ago
  West Philadelphia is mostly students from Penn and Drexel, at least up until 45th St. or so. The "hipsters" you're talking about mostly live in south/east Philly (Italian market, fishtown areas). Both are being gentrified at an accelerating rate.
  - dkhenry 10y ago
    Philly is late to the gentrification that most other cities are dealing with, its going to take a bit longer for the really prime places to price out people who are willing to move into the seeder neighborhoods.
notatoad 10y ago
that's possibly the most obnoxious case of scrolljacking i've ever seen: attempting to scroll down the page triggers an auto-playing video that prevents further scrolling.
- projektir 10y ago
  NoScript deals with that issue flawlessly, it seems.
subpixel 10y ago
Open-air drug situations always get the attention (google Philadelphia Badlands for previous coverage). But if you drive around Philadelphia without knowing which areas to avoid, you'll quickly realize that no part of the city is more than a handful of blocks away from extreme poverty and all the mayhem that comes with it. (Aside: one of my Philly cousins has a steel plate in his head after being attacked with a baseball bat near the Temple campus a few years ago; another one keeps a gun at work in North Philadelphia and has had to use it.)
spyspy 10y ago
You could find something like this in or around most major areas.
- gydfi 10y ago
  What about Manila? Do people take drugs openly in Manila?
  - x0x0 10y ago
    Are you seriously suggested we kill these people? They are people for fucks sake.
    - gydfi 10y ago
      I'm just asking whether the Philippines' policies are sufficient to deter people from taking drugs. You're the one who is inferring anything on top of that. It seems to me, however, that the overwhelming priority of our heroin policy should be ensuring that people who aren't already taking heroin don't start. Those who have already got hooked are pretty much doomed already, they should be a lower priority than those who can easily be saved. It seems to me that many people advocate a "softly softly" approach to drug users that fucks over the first group to help the second, and thus ensures that our drug problems continue instead of being wiped out.
      - wklauss 10y ago
        > Those who have already got hooked are pretty much doomed already That is definitely not true (you can recover from an addiction and there are examples all around you) and a really bad policy to follow if you really want to eradicate addiction, since you are basically marginalizing large groups of people. Saying that you need to "save" those who are not addicted implies that everyone is at risk, but the mechanics of addiction vary from person to person and are heavily influenced by socioeconomic background. Please refer to professionals that work in this field before proposing approaches like this.
donretag 10y ago
4 miles? In San Francisco, they are shooting up right on Market St in the middle of the city. And recruiters wonder why I am not willing to re-locate to SF for an incredible opportunity.
- x0x0 10y ago
  At 6th and Market, a woman was screaming at her (boyfriend?) about the people whose dicks she'd sucked to get (I'm not quite sure), and he'd run off and used it all without sharing just after buying it. I was honestly tempted to give her money to get her whatever it was she needed so badly.
redsummer 10y ago
The internet means you can ignore this, and this is why Trump won. You don't have to see it if you stay home and commune electronically with people with the same backgrounds who agree with you.
- flukus 10y ago
  A lot of us walk past it everyday and still ignore it. The internet and Trump is nothing new here.
ImTalking 10y ago
> "Police arrest a heroin addict along the tracks." We humans think that we are intelligent and just, yet I would love someone to explain the wisdom and/or logic behind this policy; to arrest someone who is addicted; to give someone a criminal record which removes any possibility of bettering oneself all for the so-called 'crime' of succumbing to an addictive drug. Even more appalling is that it is a subjectively produced list of drugs that will get you arrested, as other drugs won't.
- projektir 10y ago
  Well, intelligence and wisdom are not the same thing. Intelligence, like power, makes you better at doing things. But it doesn't mean that the things you're doing are the right ones. The bigger issue here is that your perceived intent is very different from the perceived intent of the people behind such policies, or the historical "intent" of how such things form. It is not the intent of systems to allow people to better themselves.
- bradbatt 10y ago
  Because politicians like to appear "tough on crime". Because prisons make money when we lock up drug addicts. And because Americans are somewhat punitive in nature. We should be putting money into helping people rehabilitate. Help them kick their habit, get back on their feet, and get back to being a productive member of society. Prison doesn't accomplish any of that because, in America, it is build for punishment, not rehabilitation.
  - ImTalking 10y ago
    > And because Americans are somewhat punitive in nature. Yes. Very much so. And at what stage does the word 'punitive' turn into it's next level of synonym: 'sadistic'?
  - rayiner 10y ago
    Private prisons are illegal in Pennsylvania and have been for awhile. The Pennsylvania AG even sent intervened to stop an illegal private prison construction in the 1990s: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/pennsylvania-attorney-general-fisher-says-private-prison-in-clearfield-county-is-illegal-orders-company-to-halt-construction-74231622.html http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/pennsylvania-attorne....
soulnothing 10y ago
Philadelphia like most cities, is good every couple of blocks. North and west got bad pretty quickly. I had a coworker, who bought and sold drugs. He was openly doing this in the break room. He mentioned places where the cops just ignored drugs, and focused on violence. Knowing they couldn't curtail the drug use. I know on the weekend in Rittenhouse pot was sold in plain sight. Cops were on patrol but didn't do anything about it. The problem mentioned else where is gentrification. If you're kicking more and more people out. They live on the streets or abandoned houses. No jobs, then they just sell drugs. Temple area is a prime example. The school had like their own private force. Stay on campus fine, a couple blocks off nope. This was due to subsidized housing, where people were living at extremely low rates. The city was trying to fight this tooth and nail. Brewerytown was another example. Two property managers were buying up all the reality, and kicking people out. I didn't really want to step outside my apartment for fear of being harassed. The surrounding neighborhoods as well were bad. Just from a filth standpoint. I forget the name but it was West Philly a few miles from 64th street station. I was cleaning up the streets making up for a DUI. There was trash all over, needles, diapers, etc. Then there's the unspoken, or less spoken bit. The drug triangle between NYC, Baltimore, and Philly. Heroin came in on the docks in Philly from what I've gathered. Living in Wilmington I got to see first hand the turf war between NYC and PHIL. There were constant drive-bys and you'd hear on the police scanner. Either NYC or PHIL license plates fleeing the scenes. The genius kids in Wilmington, decided to stop acting as a trading point along I95. And instead start making and selling their own stuff. That went over well. So they're trying, but what's the solution when there are no real jobs to be had. People are being kicked out from their homes?
wnoise 10y ago
> ... heroin market, smack dab ... Heh. That must be deliberate.

27 points by shawndumas 10y ago

I visited Philly a couple of times last year while staying in NJ. I was really impressed with the downtown area, it was clearly a nice city with tonnes of potential. Then we went for an excursion to somewhere on the west side of the river and wound up driving for a few miles through a hellscape of run down poor urban neighborhoods that were depressing, and frankly scary. It blew my mind that an area like that existed. It surprised me such a well laid out urban area right on the fringe of a major city would be in such bad shape, I expected it to be full of hipsters.

tacostakohashi 10y ago
Let me guess, you're not from the U.S.? This is a fundamental thing with U.S. cities, the nice parts and the shady parts are so close, just blocks from each other in parts. In other places (with welfare, wealth redistribution, and suchlike), the gradient between the nice and shady parts of town is so much more gradual.
spyspy 10y ago
West Philadelphia is mostly students from Penn and Drexel, at least up until 45th St. or so. The "hipsters" you're talking about mostly live in south/east Philly (Italian market, fishtown areas). Both are being gentrified at an accelerating rate.
- dkhenry 10y ago
  Philly is late to the gentrification that most other cities are dealing with, its going to take a bit longer for the really prime places to price out people who are willing to move into the seeder neighborhoods.

notatoad 10y ago

that's possibly the most obnoxious case of scrolljacking i've ever seen: attempting to scroll down the page triggers an auto-playing video that prevents further scrolling.

projektir 10y ago
NoScript deals with that issue flawlessly, it seems.

subpixel 10y ago

Open-air drug situations always get the attention (google Philadelphia Badlands for previous coverage). But if you drive around Philadelphia without knowing which areas to avoid, you'll quickly realize that no part of the city is more than a handful of blocks away from extreme poverty and all the mayhem that comes with it. (Aside: one of my Philly cousins has a steel plate in his head after being attacked with a baseball bat near the Temple campus a few years ago; another one keeps a gun at work in North Philadelphia and has had to use it.)

spyspy 10y ago

You could find something like this in or around most major areas.

gydfi 10y ago
What about Manila? Do people take drugs openly in Manila?
- x0x0 10y ago
  Are you seriously suggested we kill these people? They are people for fucks sake.
  - gydfi 10y ago
    I'm just asking whether the Philippines' policies are sufficient to deter people from taking drugs. You're the one who is inferring anything on top of that. It seems to me, however, that the overwhelming priority of our heroin policy should be ensuring that people who aren't already taking heroin don't start. Those who have already got hooked are pretty much doomed already, they should be a lower priority than those who can easily be saved. It seems to me that many people advocate a "softly softly" approach to drug users that fucks over the first group to help the second, and thus ensures that our drug problems continue instead of being wiped out.
    - wklauss 10y ago
      > Those who have already got hooked are pretty much doomed already That is definitely not true (you can recover from an addiction and there are examples all around you) and a really bad policy to follow if you really want to eradicate addiction, since you are basically marginalizing large groups of people. Saying that you need to "save" those who are not addicted implies that everyone is at risk, but the mechanics of addiction vary from person to person and are heavily influenced by socioeconomic background. Please refer to professionals that work in this field before proposing approaches like this.

donretag 10y ago

4 miles? In San Francisco, they are shooting up right on Market St in the middle of the city. And recruiters wonder why I am not willing to re-locate to SF for an incredible opportunity.

x0x0 10y ago
At 6th and Market, a woman was screaming at her (boyfriend?) about the people whose dicks she'd sucked to get (I'm not quite sure), and he'd run off and used it all without sharing just after buying it. I was honestly tempted to give her money to get her whatever it was she needed so badly.

redsummer 10y ago

The internet means you can ignore this, and this is why Trump won. You don't have to see it if you stay home and commune electronically with people with the same backgrounds who agree with you.

flukus 10y ago
A lot of us walk past it everyday and still ignore it. The internet and Trump is nothing new here.

ImTalking 10y ago

> "Police arrest a heroin addict along the tracks." We humans think that we are intelligent and just, yet I would love someone to explain the wisdom and/or logic behind this policy; to arrest someone who is addicted; to give someone a criminal record which removes any possibility of bettering oneself all for the so-called 'crime' of succumbing to an addictive drug. Even more appalling is that it is a subjectively produced list of drugs that will get you arrested, as other drugs won't.

projektir 10y ago
Well, intelligence and wisdom are not the same thing. Intelligence, like power, makes you better at doing things. But it doesn't mean that the things you're doing are the right ones. The bigger issue here is that your perceived intent is very different from the perceived intent of the people behind such policies, or the historical "intent" of how such things form. It is not the intent of systems to allow people to better themselves.
bradbatt 10y ago
Because politicians like to appear "tough on crime". Because prisons make money when we lock up drug addicts. And because Americans are somewhat punitive in nature. We should be putting money into helping people rehabilitate. Help them kick their habit, get back on their feet, and get back to being a productive member of society. Prison doesn't accomplish any of that because, in America, it is build for punishment, not rehabilitation.
- ImTalking 10y ago
  > And because Americans are somewhat punitive in nature. Yes. Very much so. And at what stage does the word 'punitive' turn into it's next level of synonym: 'sadistic'?
- rayiner 10y ago
  Private prisons are illegal in Pennsylvania and have been for awhile. The Pennsylvania AG even sent intervened to stop an illegal private prison construction in the 1990s: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/pennsylvania-attorney-general-fisher-says-private-prison-in-clearfield-county-is-illegal-orders-company-to-halt-construction-74231622.html http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/pennsylvania-attorne....

soulnothing 10y ago

Philadelphia like most cities, is good every couple of blocks. North and west got bad pretty quickly. I had a coworker, who bought and sold drugs. He was openly doing this in the break room. He mentioned places where the cops just ignored drugs, and focused on violence. Knowing they couldn't curtail the drug use. I know on the weekend in Rittenhouse pot was sold in plain sight. Cops were on patrol but didn't do anything about it. The problem mentioned else where is gentrification. If you're kicking more and more people out. They live on the streets or abandoned houses. No jobs, then they just sell drugs. Temple area is a prime example. The school had like their own private force. Stay on campus fine, a couple blocks off nope. This was due to subsidized housing, where people were living at extremely low rates. The city was trying to fight this tooth and nail. Brewerytown was another example. Two property managers were buying up all the reality, and kicking people out. I didn't really want to step outside my apartment for fear of being harassed. The surrounding neighborhoods as well were bad. Just from a filth standpoint. I forget the name but it was West Philly a few miles from 64th street station. I was cleaning up the streets making up for a DUI. There was trash all over, needles, diapers, etc. Then there's the unspoken, or less spoken bit. The drug triangle between NYC, Baltimore, and Philly. Heroin came in on the docks in Philly from what I've gathered. Living in Wilmington I got to see first hand the turf war between NYC and PHIL. There were constant drive-bys and you'd hear on the police scanner. Either NYC or PHIL license plates fleeing the scenes. The genius kids in Wilmington, decided to stop acting as a trading point along I95. And instead start making and selling their own stuff. That went over well. So they're trying, but what's the solution when there are no real jobs to be had. People are being kicked out from their homes?

wnoise 10y ago

> ... heroin market, smack dab ... Heh. That must be deliberate.