28 ms·

Thoughts on the Late 2016 MacBook Pro

164 points by __DarkBlue 10y ago

CalChris 10y ago
I accidentally dropped my MacBook Pro and after looking at the price of a Retina repair, I found myself in the market for a new MacBook. However, instead of the MBP, I downgraded to the Air. I do not miss Retina and I would have missed USB. The Air was $800 all up since I got an exceptionally good Presidents' Day deal.
- fnord123 10y ago
  Do you use any OS X desktop programs (that wouldn't be trivially replaced on another OS) or is it just a UNIX with good battery life and correctly functioning sleep?
  - godzillabrennus 10y ago
    Battery life + Microsoft Office + iMessage integrations are the big ones but there are other niceties that Mac has.
- adanto6840 10y ago
  I miss, dearly, being able to throw more RAM and bigger SSDs in my retina -- especially since the machines last so long that prices fall substantially over course of ownership. My eyes would hate me for going back in DPI though -- I even had to switch my desktop monitors out, its just that much less eye strain for me.
  - CalChris 10y ago
    128GB/8GB is enough for me for now. Retina on my iPhone SE is a major plus because it has a smaller screen and I hold it closer, 8" away. On a laptop, I'm reading 24" away. I'm not saying Retina on the MBP isn't nice. But price/USB/retina/weight/memory/storage in totality came out in the Air's favor. If Apple had kept USB and not jacked the price, I probably would have bought another MBP.
blakesterz 10y ago
I don't know why I keep reading these reviews, but I do. This one seems decent, he covers everything from his real world experiences. I was kind of not surprised at his conclusion... As it is, it feels like a little “fuck you, suckers” from Apple and I can’t help but feel a little disappointed. That is due mostly to the price.
- phaed 10y ago
  Also I assume the decisions that don't benefit the end-user (touchbar, keyboard, thinness, etc.)
  - simonh 10y ago
    You assume wrong. Read the review.
djmobley 10y ago
£3,700 is just a monumental amount of money. You'd be much better off buying a cheaper laptop (even a MacBook, or MBP without TouchBar) and a more powerful desktop (Hackintosh if you will)
- wil421 10y ago
  Planning on doing the same. Just refreshed my desktop and plan to get a refurb MBP or wait another year. Hell its almost worth it to do a hackintosh laptop and desktop but I don't want to have to deal with supporting it. I like at least one of my machines to "just work" and Apple hardware is nice. Regardless I'm not buying new until the price goes back down!
  - pks2006 10y ago
    I have built a Hackitosh on i5 SandyBridge CPU and a cheap $35 GPU to support a 2K monitor. I integrated this with the Korean 2K monitor (YAMAKASI) and added a Ducky Mechanical KB and Logitech MX anywhere mouse. Its a solid machine, occationally crashes due to some GPU drivers but otherwise a very dependable machine. On other hand, tried to convert a Dell laptop to Hackintosh. The first thing that felt very weird is the trackpad. What makes MacBook a great laptop is the awesome integration of the trackpad with the MacOs. None of the other OS or HW have come close to this quality of integration. So not much of an option out there that offers a stable, portable yet powerful and a awesome trackpad. Dell XPS series is serious contender in this area but I am not sure how well it plays with having Linux natively installed. I hope it is as good as the rave it gets on the Windows 10.
- bluedino 10y ago
  My PowerBook G3 cost that much in 1999 dollars...
  - Theodores 10y ago
    ...and it was a crazy price to pay then, and now!
swat17 10y ago
His conclusion doesn't match up at all with the rest of the article.
- olegkikin 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias "In cognitive science, choice-supportive bias or post-purchase rationalization is the tendency to retroactively ascribe positive attributes to an option one has selected" I can't imagine many people would say many negative things about their $3700 laptop, even if it has multiple issues.
  - codeisawesome 10y ago
    It's actually £3700, so approximately $4650 (US). Eye watering indeed.
    - muninn_ 10y ago
      Holy shit. Why?? Is it around the same cost in Euros? I don't understand this. I literally paid half of that for mine.
      - chvid 10y ago
        The version that is referred to has to be the 15" with extra SSD and more expensive CPU. Before taxes Apple's prices varies around 10% with Japan and USA consistently being the cheapest. (Excluding "special" cases like Venezuela or mainland China with has either special import taxes or a failing currency.) VAT (sales tax) in Europe is in general around 20%; for a company this tax is fully deductible.
        krrrh 10y ago
        As noted elsewhere in this thread. UK consumer law also forces bundled 6-year warranties on electronics which adds substantially to the costs.
symmitchry 10y ago
He says dongles and cables are "a non-issue" and buys over 7 new dongles, 2 new custom cables, plus a new card reader?
- wtbob 10y ago
  Maybe what he meant was that he had no issue trading money for dongles, cables & a card reader.
- geerlingguy 10y ago
  If you have UHS-II cards and a nice USB-C card reader, that alone can make the experience a positive one, dongles or no. Truth is, I really really like USB-C so far (two months in), and will be happy once a few more of my legacy devices are USB-C native (or replaceable by a model that is). I just wish someone made a multiple port USB-C hub, not just another dumb USB-C-to-USB-A hub. I preordered an Arc Hub, but just as with stock options at a startup, there's a 50/50 chance I'll ever see any value there...
  - WildUtah 10y ago
    The card reader was killed because people were using them to expand the nose-bleedingly expensive to upgrade soldered on 128k hard drives. Apple's seeking to drive up the selling price without adding quality.
    - routelastresort 10y ago
      I tried using a really fast and expensive 128GB card as extended storage. They're pretty much unusable, slower than a fast USB3 stick, and less practical than a Samsung T1 SSD or something like that. I don't mind the lack of an SD slot, but I won't buy another Macbook Pro until there's 32GB of memory. I have a late-2013 Haswell MBP with an OWC-upgraded SSD, and I prefer it over my work computer, a 32GB maxed-out Thinkpad running Linux... in pretty much every aspect.
    - 9935c101ab17a66 10y ago
      Nah, it definitely wasn't.
zzzcpan 10y ago
"It’s way too easy to accidentally activate something" Despite author's belief in haptic feedback, it cannot actually fix this problem. Touch bar is always going to be like that, always slower to use than physical keys.
arrty88 10y ago
I've been using mine since december. I love the way the keys feel but I have started developing some painful CTS in my left thumb due to hitting the cmd key a lot (coding, terminal stuff, etc). It pains me even now writing this. So i started remapping everything to fn + control so my pinky can start doing the heavy lifting (like on windows) and vow to never use the cmd key again.
- PerfectElement 10y ago
  I've been doing this since I switched from Windows to Mac a few years ago. The cmd is in a very awkward spot to me.
- R_haterade 10y ago
  I generally go alternating hands and use my thumbs, e.g. copy and paste is (right thumb) command + (left middle) c; (right thumb) command + (left index) v. There's a little overhead switching back and forth if you go (pinky) ctrl on a windows machine, but I generally find that my subconscious picks up on the context and finds the right pattern. I can see how this would be a problem, however.
jwilliams 10y ago
I've got the 13" maxed out Late 2016. I've owned every form factor of the MacBook Pro and this is my least favorite. I like the USB-C and have bought into the tradeoff of having no Magsafe. It's also a minor plus to be able to plug in either side of the machine. The TouchID is good too. However, I've found the TouchID extremely laggy for some reason (esp. on unlock) which really reduced the benefit. The keyboard is _fine_ and in some ways I feel it's a good compromise for the form factor. However it is very, very loud. It's terrible for typing on calls. If your significant other is watching TV next to you they'll get annoyed too. Battery life is average. I've found it quite variable to the point that I don't "trust" my charge on a long flight any more - which is still fine with my previous gen machine. Maybe an outlier here - I feel the Touchbar is a UX nightmare. Maybe if you're principally in one app it makes a lot of sense, but I change around a lot. It goes totally against muscle memory. I have to look down to work out what's going on, and even then take it in. I see that they're going for some kind of "discovery" experience, but predictability and patterning is important too - especially with an interface that you're trained _not_ to look at. I've locked it to the standard buttons that don't change, but even then my finger grazes it and the brightness of my screen changes... For me it's a distraction.
- WalterSear 10y ago
  IMHO, the touchbar had more to with competitive positioning against microsoft's touchscreen than optimising benefit for the user. It's the new 'one button mouse'.
  - jp555 10y ago
    Bret Victor tweeted that the TouchBar took 8 years of work to go from conception to production. https://twitter.com/worrydream/status/791767756928462848 https://twitter.com/worrydream/status/791767756928462848 You sure it was a reaction to MS?
    - WalterSear 10y ago
      An 8 year release process lines up with the release of touchscreen-enabled windows 7 and 8. Sure, they may have been investigating it before the windows release, but the choice to produce this hamfisted feature, rather than a touchscreen, still looks like a competitive reaction. Many things take lots of time to develop, and lots of things never make it into an actual release. EDIT: khaledtaha's comment above sounds even more plausible, give the strategy Apple currently appears to be pursuing.
EToS 10y ago
If they dropped the "Pro" and the price, it would totally make sense to me. However, with the lack of recent investment in OS X, dropping of Thunderbolt line (i still hope this isn't real) and way too much over focus on the apple watch, its clear apple just wants another iphone/ipad style product, and they're running serious risk of losing power users at a point where microsoft has massively upped their game.
askmehow 10y ago
One of my team got a new MBP in December. He turned it on yesterday and the hard drive isn't recognized and the machine refuses to boot. The Apple store can't do anything but exchange it, there's no way to get to the disk short of taking it to a data recovery shop, which is a dicey proposition at best. I haven't seen many reports of this particular problem elsewhere, but I've had a feeling that apple's quality has been falling, and this is yet another point of anecdata. I think he'll return it and get a Thinkpad, and go full Linux. The MBPs are sexy, but, imho, the price:value ratio has tipped.
- virmundi 10y ago
  The thumb, in this scale metaphor, is requiring an Apple computer to create software for the iPhone. From what I've seen, there is little to correct this. Even remoting into a Mac Mini won't help, it just makes things harder. So if you need to tap that particular segment, you have to have an Apple computer, and it will probably be a MBP due to convenience.
- yourapostasy 10y ago
  Sometimes this behavior is just flaky boot sectors. Try Target Disk Mode [1] to see if the unit's drive can be mounted on another Mac. If you can mount, then perform an immediate SuperDuper! backup before attempting any other recovery, of course. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204360 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204360
richardking 10y ago
This may be the Apple fanboy in me talking, but I think Apple was in a tough spot- seems like the tMBP has supplied-constrained components (I think it was hard to get in-store even 3 months after the launch), so their options were- delay it until they had a large number of laptops built already, charge an "acceptable" price and have people wait months for one, or charge more and have the price keep demand down. They went with the last option because, well, they can. I'm guessing the price should go down soon now that supply has somewhat caught up with demand.
- dbg31415 10y ago
  They don't often lower prices. Their justification for that is, "Well we don't raise prices either..." but I don't expect them to drop prices at any point before announcing the next gen of MBP. This has been their model forever.
  - techdragon 10y ago
    Never raise prices? Ha! Try living overseas. Apple regularly raises and lowers prices to match local currency to USD exchange rates. They also seem quicker to raise them in response to exchange rates than to lower them. I can't blame them for the adjustments themselves but the raise fast, lower slow, behaviour is irritating and stinks of profiteering.
  - EduardoBautista 10y ago
    They significantly dropped the price of the MacBook Air and retina a couple of iterations in.
hellofunk 10y ago
In December 2016, I purchased new the 2015 model that Apple still sells. I've never been so pleased with a computer (and it was a lot cheaper than the Touch Bar model). One big surprise is that after nearly 3 months of using it every day for software development, I am still getting 15 hours battery life. This just amazes me and was far beyond my expectation. (Now, I mainly use emacs, clang, and terminal, but even compiling every few minutes my c++ doesn't hit the battery much at all).
- yaegers 10y ago
  Battery life seems not like a surprise. Isn't Apple only selling 2015 MacBooks without a discrete GPU? So you basically only have Intel Graphics in there which would mean a charge lasts much longer if it doesn't need to drive an NVidia or AMD card as well.
  - contergan 10y ago
    I'm inclined not to believe the 15 hour claim. I've had the 2015 MBP since it came out and get maybe 4-5 hours of battery life doing non-heavy web development nowadays. After I newly bought it I got maybe around 7 hours at most. With integrated graphics only of course - with the dedicated GPU active I get around 3 hours or so only.
    - mattkevan 10y ago
      Are you using Chrome or Electron apps? Chrome rinses mine in about 3-4 hours, whereas Safari lasts all day.
      - dkonofalski 10y ago
        Same here. I didn't believe my friend when he told me it was Chrome and, for some reason, I didn't believe the battery meter that kept telling me that Chrome was using significant power. Switched to Safari and now my battery lasts all day. If I could get Slack to play nice I think I'd have over a day of charge (1 day meaning a 12-16 hour working day, not 24 hours).
dbg31415 10y ago
> In general, I expect to get three years of service out of each computer I buy. With the new MBP I know that in twelve months — maybe even fewer — the specifications of this machine are not going to hold up as well as they have with previous iterations. Spot on how I feel about it. Every MBP I've had to date felt like there was room to grow. The new one... meh, feels like a placeholder.
tromp 10y ago
Those SSD speeds are very impressive indeed. When I bought my 27" iMac in late 2013, I splurged on the top-of-the-line 1TB PCIe SSD, half expecting it to remain competitive for years to come. Having just downloaded the AJA System Test Lite from the App Store and run it, I was slightly disappointed to see how far it's fallen behind: 703 Write 709 Read On the other hand, I haven't ever felt slowed down by my disk, while the maxed-out 32GB of RAM have been very useful...
- imaginenore 10y ago
  Unless you're reading/writing massive files to disk (like in video editing), pretty much only IOPS/latency matter. Even the cheap SSDs are fast enough at linear reads/writes.
diego 10y ago
I really want to get one of these, but I can't get myself to. I have a 2015 Macbook and I hate the keyboard. I thought I'd get used to it but never did, the one in an older Air is so much more comfortable to me. I went to the Apple Store twice to try out the new keyboard and, while it's better, I can't imagine being happy with it. Does anyone else feel the same way or is it just me?
- make3 10y ago
  same. without f keys and with fewer connectors, this generation is almost strictly a downgrade from the 2015 version. also.. the touch bar.. I'm a programmer, I don't look at my fingers when I type, why would I want to have a screen there
- krrrh 10y ago
  I've had my 2016 MBP for about ten days. Just used my air for the first time since then and couldn't believe how spongey and rattley the old keyboard felt. I know a few other people who feel the same way. Personal preference and finger habits are a big factors with these keyboards, and seem to be something people adapt to at different rates, or not at all.
- krrrh 10y ago
  I've had my 2016 MBP for about ten days. Just used my air for the first time since then and couldn't believe how spongey and rattley the old keyboard felt. I know a few other people who feel the same way. Personal preference and finger habits are a big factors with these keyboards, and seem to be something people adapt to at different rates, or not at all.
- dkonofalski 10y ago
  I didn't think I'd like the new keyboard but I was forced to use it as it's a work-supplied machine. After less than a month of using it, it's my favorite keyboard of any machine I own, including my mechanical keyboard. The travel is nice, the keys feel solid, it's got a nice click, and I can type faster. Took a bit of getting used to, but it's awesome, imo.
hmigneron 10y ago
I'm always surprised when developers don't talk about the F keys in their reviews of the new MBP. I mostly agree with the author regarding the escape key, the touch bar isn't really a problem in that regard, it still works and I got used to "pressing" it on the touchbar really quickly. I really really miss physical F keys though. I spend a lot of time debugging (either in the Chrome debugger or in IDEs) where pressing F-Something seems to be the norm to step into / step over. The lack of feedback makes it a lot harder to use these keys repeatedly (in my experience anyway). I know I could change the keys but... To be honest, that's the one thing that really bothers me about the new machine, I got used to everything else pretty quickly. I should note that I was forced to switch to the new model (my 2014 MBP was stolen). I didn't want a new machine, wasn't happy about getting one and started using it in the worst circumstances which probably didn't help me "learn to love the touchbar". Insurance paid for the new machine so price wasn't an issue for me. I don't think it's an abomination or anything, I just never find it better than a normal keyboard with F keys (I don't do video editing or anything where a timeline might help me). Other developers who use the touchbar MBP, do you not miss the F-Keys ? Have you changed the keys you use to debug ?
- WildUtah 10y ago
  It's a real detriment to UI, it costs you battery life, it's a distracting gimmick, and it adds $200 to the cost of your machine. And Apple will never give up on it. Every Mac is going to be worse for years and years because of it. Enjoy.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    If Apple keeps it, they will improve on it to the point where it doesn't suck.
    - skyrw 10y ago
      The second that happens they will remove it in the following release.
    - hpaavola 10y ago
fineline 10y ago
My work recently offered to replace my 2013 retina MBP, at no cost to myself, as it went out of (extended) warranty. I declined. I'd rather wait and see if they improve the offering later this year. Come on Apple, lift your game.
lunaru 10y ago
At the end of the day, it's just a so-so offering from Apple that has more than a so-so price tag attached. But, in it's defense, I will say one thing: I thought I would hate the keyboard. I'm the guy who spends hundreds on the best mechanical keyboards, but I was left completely impressed with the new keyboard and how well it just works. Everything about is wrong on paper, but when you begin typing, the results are undeniable. The old macbooks had the best laptop keyboard bar none and this generation's is even better. Now that I'm done praising one thing about it, I'll go back to beating the dead horse: Where's the 32GB model? :)
- muninn_ 10y ago
  Agree with the keyboard. The 32gb model is waiting on Intel.
justanother 10y ago
> The keyboard has suffered so much criticism that I have to wonder: who of those who condemn it, have actually used it for a sustained period? I got a 2015 Macbook as soon as it shipped. Within a few months, the butterfly mechanism had collapsed on several keys. A couple Apple Store repairs later, they're still breaking often enough that the 2015 Macbook is mostly collecting dust and shame. When I saw what they'd done with the MBPr for 2016, I decided to overhaul pre-2016 ones indefinitely, because it's pretty much that or Dell XPS13 hackintosh. That keyboard is proof that the devil is not only real, but has subverted Apple's once-rigorous design process. The rest of the machine looks good to me.
brentis 10y ago
I saw the new MacBooks in person 2 days ago and kept asking, "why would I buy one of these?" Cheap feeling keyboard, useless difference in thickness, and only 16gb. Not going back under 32 with Photoshop ever. I'll stick with my 2013 and look at a Lenovo 2-1 next. Pretty tired of OS X too.
- rimantas 10y ago
  Your 2013 came with 32GB RAM?
  - phaed 10y ago
    They are upgradable.
    - mciancia 10y ago
      They are not.
      - brentis 10y ago
        I should clarify.. I have 32 on my iMac and use my mbp for remote Photoshop. It has 16Gb I believe. I want to move to just one device vs. two with desktop monitor for home - not going to do it with current 2016 MBPs as my primary. Fwiw I don't like the fake click on the trackpads or iPhone 7's either. Already started moving away when pine 7 came out - went with Pixel xl and couldn't be happier.
- jonaswi 10y ago
  I was in the exact same situation. I was so tired of being forced to buy overpriced hardware from apple that I'm not even happy with just because I work with OS X. I then bought a new Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition and was really surprised that a) the scaling doe snot even work with dells own "tweaked" Ubuntu (even the installer looked horrible) and b) "coil whine" is a thing at this price point. I was so unhappy with it that I sold it weeks later. To replace the Dell I bought an HP spectre x360 and was really happy with the hardware but could not get the thunderbolt ports to work with ubuntu. Eventually I also returned it. I "surrendered" and bought the new MBP and so far I'm quite happy with it. But it still feels very uncomfortable to be so "dependant" on one manufacturer. Other than the thunderbolt problem (which I'm sure will be fixed soon) I was really happy with Ubuntu as my main OS. I really do hope that other manufactures step up their game so I can finally switch without too much compromises.
tachion 10y ago
Since the author quotes prices in GBP, I'd say to everyone - skip the Apple Care! In UK consumer electronics state-enforced-warranty (or whatever these particular consumer rights are called) is 6 years. That's not a typo, it is 6 years and I've used it twice for my Apple gear that was outside of manufacturer's warranty and without Apple Care. Save yourself £329 and know your rights. And dont get my word on it, check it out yourself, it's even on Apple web pages ;)
- H4CK3RM4N 10y ago
  Don't do this with iOS devices though. Apple care discounts screen replacements/other repairs significantly with mobile devices.
  - tachion 10y ago
    As far as consumer rights are concerned, you shouldn't give a damn what the manufacturer discontinues. If the device fails within 6 years it should be fixed, replaced (happened to me, brand new iPhone 5 handed over immediately) or refunded.
    - thirdsun 10y ago
      discounts, not discontinues.
- fludlight 10y ago
  So it's a bit more nuanced than that. You can get an I-changed-my-mind full refund in the first 14 days but only if you bought the item online. You can also get a full refund in the first 30 days if the item is defective whether you bought it online or in a brick and mortar store. You can also get a full refund in the first 6 months if it is defective and cannot be repaired or replaced. After six months, you can only get a partial refund and only if the item is defective. IMHO that's still pretty good. The rules vary a bit between England and Scotland and I am too tired to look up Wales and Northern Ireland right now. https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds https://www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/files/Returns%20policies_EW_CONSUMER_RIGHTS_SUMMARY.pdf https://www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/files/Retur... (linked from the above gov.uk URL) https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/return-faulty-goods/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-w...
mactunes 10y ago
I've also been a Mac user for 20 years and can totally relate to the conclusion he made: I felt betrayed by Apple's pricing on this machine. I decided to not get a Mac for the first time since 1996 and so far haven't regretted the move.
- mcjiggerlog 10y ago
  What did you get, out of interest?
  - mactunes 10y ago
    ASUS ZenBook UX360UAK
Smaug123 10y ago
One point of the website design I loved: the hover-over on each acronym. It gives you something to Google if you don't know what the acronym means.
- jrapdx3 10y ago
  That is a nice addition that should be used more often. On this site the abbreviations were common, but many articles use obscure, domain-specific, or non-standard abbreviations, where the full name "tool-tips" would be extremely useful in making the info accessible to a wider range of readers. Most of the time the full name is something I recognize. Problems arise because abbreviated names frequently collide, a short identifier can apply to several different things especially across fields. Even a list at the end of the piece would be better than having to hunt around trying to find out what was meant in a particular context.
EnderMB 10y ago
I waited for over a year for the new MBP to come out, but in the end I shelled out a bit more money for a Surface Book. Since then, I've used the new MBP, and while it's a great machine I don't regret my purchase for a second. My only gripe with the Surface Book is that installing Linux is a bit of a nightmare (not sure if this is still the case), but I'm happy enough with running Ubuntu on a virtual machine.
- yokohummer7 10y ago
  And Windows Subsystem for Linux! While all my server and development stuffs are based on Linux, I wasn't particularly a fan of the Linux GUIs. The reason MacBook was attractive was that it runs POSIX. But now Windows can do that too thanks to WSL. It's not complete but even the current partial support does enough for me. It's a cheap, lightweight alternative to Linux VMs. I guess I would go with a Windows-based laptop next time. It is truly a game changer.
  - matthewking 10y ago
    I'm considering this too, Windows 10 still has some annoying UI inconsistencies but its getting there, and with the Ubuntu subsystem its viable for Linux based dev's without setting up a VM. I mean technically its closer to my target production environment than macOS is. I haven't spent that long trying it out but managed to get a Rails 5 app up and running without much fuss, I'm with you on it being a game changer.
    - yokohummer7 10y ago
      > I mean technically its closer to my target production environment than macOS is. Huh, I didn't think about that, but you're right. Yeah, I won't have to deal with slightly different shell tools that are bundled with macOS. I'm not saying those tools are bad, it's just that I'm so used to GNU tools. Also, the directory structures and the kernel interfaces will exactly be the same as Ubuntu. Good point.
- therealunreal 10y ago
HalfwayToDice 10y ago
I wish there was more acknowledgement of how NOISY the keyboard is on the new MacBook Pros. It's not possible to use it in a quiet environment without being embarrassed.
xaldir 10y ago
It's a well written review, but I can't think of it as anything else than a "loyal Apple customer" trying to convince himself that his £3,700 toy is not that bad.
chadcmulligan 10y ago
I don't hear much about the display on the MBP, it's as near to perfect as any display I've ever seen, using text is beautiful, the colour depth is extraordinary - and its a laptop. I plugged in a new external 1080p monitor and thought at first there was something wrong with it, but no it's just the difference in crispness. Not only that you can run 2 external 5K monitors! from a laptop! The SSD's are so fast, it's also so quiet - you never hear the fan. The only negative is it gets warm when charging on my lap. I too don't see the point of the touchbar though, it's a cute gadget to play with. The sound is remarkable, though the whole laptop vibrates when the sound is turned up (edit: though there's no audible distortion or vibration noises which is pretty unique for a laptop too). It is without a doubt the most perfect laptop I have ever owned, like everyone I would have liked to pay less for it. I'll use it for the next three years then give it too my daughter and she'll use it for another three years like my last one. I'm very happy with my purchase.
- yokohummer7 10y ago
  One thing I find odd about the display is that it somehow changes white balance occasionally depending on the content. I'm not sure if this only happens on BootCamp or not, but it's a bit surprising. Is there any setting to turn off this?
  - AsyncAwait 10y ago
    My MBP display occasionally gets a greenish tint.
  - gog 10y ago
    Are you maybe running f.lux?
    - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
      They mentioned context, not time of day.
- pier25 10y ago
  > I don't hear much about the display on the MBP, it's as near to perfect as any display I've ever seen I mentioned it in my article. It has a wider gamut and brighter panel, but color fidelity wise it's worse than it's predecessors. https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-fadf27ab4b https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-fad...
Terretta 10y ago
> Best of all is the distinct click each key makes when pressed. I have spent hundreds of pounds on mechanical keyboards in the past to get such a click. I love the positive feedback from this keyboard and find myself typing more assuredly on it than I did on its predecessor... This is only best if you type by yourself in a soundproofed room. In a business workplace where everyone has the prior model MacBook Pro, when you start typing on this one, the sounds of your 'assured' typing become the topic.
GoofballJones 10y ago
The last part of the review says it all.
Elect2 10y ago
Apple is doing wrong things to macbook these years.
epaga 10y ago
Wow, until this article I had no idea BetterTouchTool now supported touch bar customization. This is huge. Next to the crazy price, the touch bar was my only other gripe about my 15" tMBP - I absolutely love the keyboard, the huge touch pad, and everything else about it. But now with this tool (I've been tinkering around with it for a bit now), that last complaint is entirely gone. The touch bar is finally useful now - contextual, customizable, visual shortcuts for anything I'd want to do on the Mac. Super powerful.
- canuckintime 10y ago
  I'm a huge fan of BetterTouchTool. I even bought a SiriRemote ($99!) just to tinker with it after BTT implemented support. However the TouchBar is just a UI deadend. We are trained to not look down at our keyboards. My BTT shortcuts for the trackpad and MM are completely memorized so my eyes keep focus on the screen and work in front of me. I can't not do the same for the Touchbar with its changing contextual visual shortcuts. I have to glance down to confirm the context and the shortcuts. Glancing down at the touchbar means breaking concentration. Even if Apple adds haptic feedback in V2 it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of glancing away from my main screen to a tiny touchstrip. T he touchbar is simply a crutch until the iPad wins or Apple makes a full touchscreen Mac. It's a waste of time. I'd much rather Apple have continued to implement the trackpad haptic feedback controls into the rest of their apps.
bartread 10y ago
I'm currently running a late-2015 15-inch Macbook Pro, with all specs maxxed out, and have no plans to upgrade until probably next year. Still, even in 2015 the 16GB RAM limit annoyed me because I often run OSX and Windows side-by-side with Parallels. Whilst SSD is fast, it still ain't no RAM, and with 2 x VS instances, different versions of SQL Server, Couchbase, Oracle, and Tibco all running at the same time I'd really like to be able to give my Windows VM at least 16GB to work with. The other big rub with the new MBP for me is that smaller battery. As mentioned I run Parallels which is just awful for sucking CPU (even when Windows itself appears to be using none; see their support forums). It's actually turned into a really crappy and aggravating product across a number of fronts but this is by far the biggest problem because it absolutely canes the battery. I often find myself having to work disconnected, so it's a real issue when running Windows. I also don't much appreciate the non-user-upgradeable SSD. I've enjoyed (and used) the option to swap out the stock drive in previous MBP incarnations, to great effect (and cost savings), so the fact that you can no longer do so and are forced to pay Apple's prices for storage (albeit very fast storage), is frustrating. The other changes don't really bother me too much. I can actually see the touchbar being much more useful than function keys in many cases because it'll reduce the need to remember keyboard shortcuts. Instead custom rendering will make it obvious what the widgets are for. I agree with the author's point about haptic feedback though. For me, thinness and lightness are not fundamental driving factors. Sure, I appreciate a lighter laptop - and I don't want to return to the bad old days of massive, heavy laptops with giant power supplies (I'm looking at you, Dell) - but not if that means compromising in other important areas. I'd prefer a slightly heavier machine with more (user-upgradeable) RAM, a bigger battery (especially to compensate for the extra RAM), and upgradeable storage. I've said it before but I feel like, despite the machine's name, Apple are somewhat disregarding the needs of the "pros" who use it.
- rayiner 10y ago
  How often do you work out of LTE range? RDP is very usable if you need to use Windows for work.
  - tomaskafka 10y ago
    I confirm - RDP is super awesome, a reason why I converted my home 'server' from mac to windows.
rsynnott 10y ago
> Apple have increased the native resolution/scaling in comparison to my previous MBP. It’s now practical to work with two half-width, adjacent windows on this laptop’s display. Something that never seemed workable on its predecessor.2 This fact alone makes for some serious productivity wins. You could actually always set it to do this; they've just changed the defaults. A surprising number of users seem to be unaware of this, though.
- netcraft 10y ago
  I didn't know this and just did it on my previous gen macbook, thanks!
majortennis 10y ago
more than a little over priced , apple suck wish people would stop encouraging them
simonpantzare 10y ago
I can't believe they let this keyboard issue slip through: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7762123?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7762123?start=0&tstart=.... When the laptop gets warm some keys' key-up sound change. I have the issue on the N (worst), X, B, and caps lock keys, but it seems to be different keys for everybody. I hope that you will be able to have it fixed in-store soon, don't want to wait days for a replacement laptop especially if it's likely to have the same issue. Now, admittedly it's quite a minor annoyance. But it's such a basic "feature" that keys sound the same that I don't want them to get away with it, if that makes sense.
SomeHacker44 10y ago
I have the 13" Touch Bar model. I have no end of problems with the ESC key. The touch bar ESC key has no tactile feedback. It has no haptic feedback. I can't tell if I hit it or not. Literally, what used to be a completely unconscious use of a heavily used key (vim, Command-Tab change mind, drag & change mind, etc.) now is literally a 2-3 second mental interrupt every time I want to use it, because now I have to make sure I hit it, and that the hit registers. The rest of the touch bar is similarly problematic. Using interactive debugging? I used to rest my fingers on F5-6-7 for step-over, step-into and continue, then I could just wiggle one finger to keep stepping. Well, no longer. I can't rest my fingers, I have no tactile feedback when I hit one of these things, and I have to look at the keyboard to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I haven't looked at a keyboard since 1982, and probably earlier. (Well, maybe except when I was learning my way around my Symbolics keyboard.) Use WINE? Too bad - you can't force the touch bar to always be F1-12 in System Preferences. Sucks for huge numbers of games. Which, even if you hit Fn-F-key, still suffers from the problem that it does a 2-3 second mental interrupt and glance at the keyboard. Essentially the Mac is no longer suitable for keyboard gaming. My wife generally goes to sleep an hour or two before me. I very often will take my laptop and do some recreational coding at night as she likes it when I'm there with her while she falls asleep. Well, not anymore. This keyboard is so loud that several nights a week she tells me to leave. I finally gave up and bought an Alienware 13R3 so at least I can play some games while in bed. (That OLED display is the most amazing display I've ever had, parenthetically.) On top of this, several keys have started to "squeak." I don't know how better to describe it, but several of the keys definitely make odd high pitched sounds when you hit them. Not all the time, but if you hit them off center. Absolute disaster. I will never buy another Apple computer until they get rid of this. Please give me a non-Touch-Bar model ASAP! The track pad, however, is excellent. I don't use the Touch ID. I really don't want the police getting into my stuff without my authorization.

164 points by __DarkBlue 10y ago

I accidentally dropped my MacBook Pro and after looking at the price of a Retina repair, I found myself in the market for a new MacBook. However, instead of the MBP, I downgraded to the Air. I do not miss Retina and I would have missed USB. The Air was $800 all up since I got an exceptionally good Presidents' Day deal.

fnord123 10y ago
Do you use any OS X desktop programs (that wouldn't be trivially replaced on another OS) or is it just a UNIX with good battery life and correctly functioning sleep?
- godzillabrennus 10y ago
  Battery life + Microsoft Office + iMessage integrations are the big ones but there are other niceties that Mac has.
adanto6840 10y ago
I miss, dearly, being able to throw more RAM and bigger SSDs in my retina -- especially since the machines last so long that prices fall substantially over course of ownership. My eyes would hate me for going back in DPI though -- I even had to switch my desktop monitors out, its just that much less eye strain for me.
- CalChris 10y ago
  128GB/8GB is enough for me for now. Retina on my iPhone SE is a major plus because it has a smaller screen and I hold it closer, 8" away. On a laptop, I'm reading 24" away. I'm not saying Retina on the MBP isn't nice. But price/USB/retina/weight/memory/storage in totality came out in the Air's favor. If Apple had kept USB and not jacked the price, I probably would have bought another MBP.

blakesterz 10y ago

I don't know why I keep reading these reviews, but I do. This one seems decent, he covers everything from his real world experiences. I was kind of not surprised at his conclusion... As it is, it feels like a little “fuck you, suckers” from Apple and I can’t help but feel a little disappointed. That is due mostly to the price.

phaed 10y ago
Also I assume the decisions that don't benefit the end-user (touchbar, keyboard, thinness, etc.)
- simonh 10y ago
  You assume wrong. Read the review.

djmobley 10y ago

£3,700 is just a monumental amount of money. You'd be much better off buying a cheaper laptop (even a MacBook, or MBP without TouchBar) and a more powerful desktop (Hackintosh if you will)

wil421 10y ago
Planning on doing the same. Just refreshed my desktop and plan to get a refurb MBP or wait another year. Hell its almost worth it to do a hackintosh laptop and desktop but I don't want to have to deal with supporting it. I like at least one of my machines to "just work" and Apple hardware is nice. Regardless I'm not buying new until the price goes back down!
- pks2006 10y ago
  I have built a Hackitosh on i5 SandyBridge CPU and a cheap $35 GPU to support a 2K monitor. I integrated this with the Korean 2K monitor (YAMAKASI) and added a Ducky Mechanical KB and Logitech MX anywhere mouse. Its a solid machine, occationally crashes due to some GPU drivers but otherwise a very dependable machine. On other hand, tried to convert a Dell laptop to Hackintosh. The first thing that felt very weird is the trackpad. What makes MacBook a great laptop is the awesome integration of the trackpad with the MacOs. None of the other OS or HW have come close to this quality of integration. So not much of an option out there that offers a stable, portable yet powerful and a awesome trackpad. Dell XPS series is serious contender in this area but I am not sure how well it plays with having Linux natively installed. I hope it is as good as the rave it gets on the Windows 10.
bluedino 10y ago
My PowerBook G3 cost that much in 1999 dollars...
- Theodores 10y ago
  ...and it was a crazy price to pay then, and now!

swat17 10y ago

His conclusion doesn't match up at all with the rest of the article.

olegkikin 10y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias "In cognitive science, choice-supportive bias or post-purchase rationalization is the tendency to retroactively ascribe positive attributes to an option one has selected" I can't imagine many people would say many negative things about their $3700 laptop, even if it has multiple issues.
- codeisawesome 10y ago
  It's actually £3700, so approximately $4650 (US). Eye watering indeed.
  - muninn_ 10y ago
    Holy shit. Why?? Is it around the same cost in Euros? I don't understand this. I literally paid half of that for mine.
    - chvid 10y ago
      The version that is referred to has to be the 15" with extra SSD and more expensive CPU. Before taxes Apple's prices varies around 10% with Japan and USA consistently being the cheapest. (Excluding "special" cases like Venezuela or mainland China with has either special import taxes or a failing currency.) VAT (sales tax) in Europe is in general around 20%; for a company this tax is fully deductible.
      - krrrh 10y ago
        As noted elsewhere in this thread. UK consumer law also forces bundled 6-year warranties on electronics which adds substantially to the costs.

symmitchry 10y ago

He says dongles and cables are "a non-issue" and buys over 7 new dongles, 2 new custom cables, plus a new card reader?

wtbob 10y ago
Maybe what he meant was that he had no issue trading money for dongles, cables & a card reader.
geerlingguy 10y ago
If you have UHS-II cards and a nice USB-C card reader, that alone can make the experience a positive one, dongles or no. Truth is, I really really like USB-C so far (two months in), and will be happy once a few more of my legacy devices are USB-C native (or replaceable by a model that is). I just wish someone made a multiple port USB-C hub, not just another dumb USB-C-to-USB-A hub. I preordered an Arc Hub, but just as with stock options at a startup, there's a 50/50 chance I'll ever see any value there...
- WildUtah 10y ago
  The card reader was killed because people were using them to expand the nose-bleedingly expensive to upgrade soldered on 128k hard drives. Apple's seeking to drive up the selling price without adding quality.
  - routelastresort 10y ago
    I tried using a really fast and expensive 128GB card as extended storage. They're pretty much unusable, slower than a fast USB3 stick, and less practical than a Samsung T1 SSD or something like that. I don't mind the lack of an SD slot, but I won't buy another Macbook Pro until there's 32GB of memory. I have a late-2013 Haswell MBP with an OWC-upgraded SSD, and I prefer it over my work computer, a 32GB maxed-out Thinkpad running Linux... in pretty much every aspect.
  - 9935c101ab17a66 10y ago
    Nah, it definitely wasn't.

zzzcpan 10y ago

"It’s way too easy to accidentally activate something" Despite author's belief in haptic feedback, it cannot actually fix this problem. Touch bar is always going to be like that, always slower to use than physical keys.

arrty88 10y ago

I've been using mine since december. I love the way the keys feel but I have started developing some painful CTS in my left thumb due to hitting the cmd key a lot (coding, terminal stuff, etc). It pains me even now writing this. So i started remapping everything to fn + control so my pinky can start doing the heavy lifting (like on windows) and vow to never use the cmd key again.

PerfectElement 10y ago
I've been doing this since I switched from Windows to Mac a few years ago. The cmd is in a very awkward spot to me.
R_haterade 10y ago
I generally go alternating hands and use my thumbs, e.g. copy and paste is (right thumb) command + (left middle) c; (right thumb) command + (left index) v. There's a little overhead switching back and forth if you go (pinky) ctrl on a windows machine, but I generally find that my subconscious picks up on the context and finds the right pattern. I can see how this would be a problem, however.

jwilliams 10y ago

I've got the 13" maxed out Late 2016. I've owned every form factor of the MacBook Pro and this is my least favorite. I like the USB-C and have bought into the tradeoff of having no Magsafe. It's also a minor plus to be able to plug in either side of the machine. The TouchID is good too. However, I've found the TouchID extremely laggy for some reason (esp. on unlock) which really reduced the benefit. The keyboard is _fine_ and in some ways I feel it's a good compromise for the form factor. However it is very, very loud. It's terrible for typing on calls. If your significant other is watching TV next to you they'll get annoyed too. Battery life is average. I've found it quite variable to the point that I don't "trust" my charge on a long flight any more - which is still fine with my previous gen machine. Maybe an outlier here - I feel the Touchbar is a UX nightmare. Maybe if you're principally in one app it makes a lot of sense, but I change around a lot. It goes totally against muscle memory. I have to look down to work out what's going on, and even then take it in. I see that they're going for some kind of "discovery" experience, but predictability and patterning is important too - especially with an interface that you're trained _not_ to look at. I've locked it to the standard buttons that don't change, but even then my finger grazes it and the brightness of my screen changes... For me it's a distraction.

WalterSear 10y ago
IMHO, the touchbar had more to with competitive positioning against microsoft's touchscreen than optimising benefit for the user. It's the new 'one button mouse'.
- jp555 10y ago
  Bret Victor tweeted that the TouchBar took 8 years of work to go from conception to production. https://twitter.com/worrydream/status/791767756928462848 https://twitter.com/worrydream/status/791767756928462848 You sure it was a reaction to MS?
  - WalterSear 10y ago
    An 8 year release process lines up with the release of touchscreen-enabled windows 7 and 8. Sure, they may have been investigating it before the windows release, but the choice to produce this hamfisted feature, rather than a touchscreen, still looks like a competitive reaction. Many things take lots of time to develop, and lots of things never make it into an actual release. EDIT: khaledtaha's comment above sounds even more plausible, give the strategy Apple currently appears to be pursuing.

EToS 10y ago

If they dropped the "Pro" and the price, it would totally make sense to me. However, with the lack of recent investment in OS X, dropping of Thunderbolt line (i still hope this isn't real) and way too much over focus on the apple watch, its clear apple just wants another iphone/ipad style product, and they're running serious risk of losing power users at a point where microsoft has massively upped their game.

askmehow 10y ago

One of my team got a new MBP in December. He turned it on yesterday and the hard drive isn't recognized and the machine refuses to boot. The Apple store can't do anything but exchange it, there's no way to get to the disk short of taking it to a data recovery shop, which is a dicey proposition at best. I haven't seen many reports of this particular problem elsewhere, but I've had a feeling that apple's quality has been falling, and this is yet another point of anecdata. I think he'll return it and get a Thinkpad, and go full Linux. The MBPs are sexy, but, imho, the price:value ratio has tipped.

virmundi 10y ago
The thumb, in this scale metaphor, is requiring an Apple computer to create software for the iPhone. From what I've seen, there is little to correct this. Even remoting into a Mac Mini won't help, it just makes things harder. So if you need to tap that particular segment, you have to have an Apple computer, and it will probably be a MBP due to convenience.
yourapostasy 10y ago
Sometimes this behavior is just flaky boot sectors. Try Target Disk Mode [1] to see if the unit's drive can be mounted on another Mac. If you can mount, then perform an immediate SuperDuper! backup before attempting any other recovery, of course. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204360 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204360

richardking 10y ago

This may be the Apple fanboy in me talking, but I think Apple was in a tough spot- seems like the tMBP has supplied-constrained components (I think it was hard to get in-store even 3 months after the launch), so their options were- delay it until they had a large number of laptops built already, charge an "acceptable" price and have people wait months for one, or charge more and have the price keep demand down. They went with the last option because, well, they can. I'm guessing the price should go down soon now that supply has somewhat caught up with demand.

dbg31415 10y ago
They don't often lower prices. Their justification for that is, "Well we don't raise prices either..." but I don't expect them to drop prices at any point before announcing the next gen of MBP. This has been their model forever.
- techdragon 10y ago
  Never raise prices? Ha! Try living overseas. Apple regularly raises and lowers prices to match local currency to USD exchange rates. They also seem quicker to raise them in response to exchange rates than to lower them. I can't blame them for the adjustments themselves but the raise fast, lower slow, behaviour is irritating and stinks of profiteering.
- EduardoBautista 10y ago
  They significantly dropped the price of the MacBook Air and retina a couple of iterations in.

hellofunk 10y ago

In December 2016, I purchased new the 2015 model that Apple still sells. I've never been so pleased with a computer (and it was a lot cheaper than the Touch Bar model). One big surprise is that after nearly 3 months of using it every day for software development, I am still getting 15 hours battery life. This just amazes me and was far beyond my expectation. (Now, I mainly use emacs, clang, and terminal, but even compiling every few minutes my c++ doesn't hit the battery much at all).

yaegers 10y ago
Battery life seems not like a surprise. Isn't Apple only selling 2015 MacBooks without a discrete GPU? So you basically only have Intel Graphics in there which would mean a charge lasts much longer if it doesn't need to drive an NVidia or AMD card as well.
- contergan 10y ago
  I'm inclined not to believe the 15 hour claim. I've had the 2015 MBP since it came out and get maybe 4-5 hours of battery life doing non-heavy web development nowadays. After I newly bought it I got maybe around 7 hours at most. With integrated graphics only of course - with the dedicated GPU active I get around 3 hours or so only.
  - mattkevan 10y ago
    Are you using Chrome or Electron apps? Chrome rinses mine in about 3-4 hours, whereas Safari lasts all day.
    - dkonofalski 10y ago
      Same here. I didn't believe my friend when he told me it was Chrome and, for some reason, I didn't believe the battery meter that kept telling me that Chrome was using significant power. Switched to Safari and now my battery lasts all day. If I could get Slack to play nice I think I'd have over a day of charge (1 day meaning a 12-16 hour working day, not 24 hours).

dbg31415 10y ago

> In general, I expect to get three years of service out of each computer I buy. With the new MBP I know that in twelve months — maybe even fewer — the specifications of this machine are not going to hold up as well as they have with previous iterations. Spot on how I feel about it. Every MBP I've had to date felt like there was room to grow. The new one... meh, feels like a placeholder.

tromp 10y ago

Those SSD speeds are very impressive indeed. When I bought my 27" iMac in late 2013, I splurged on the top-of-the-line 1TB PCIe SSD, half expecting it to remain competitive for years to come. Having just downloaded the AJA System Test Lite from the App Store and run it, I was slightly disappointed to see how far it's fallen behind: 703 Write 709 Read On the other hand, I haven't ever felt slowed down by my disk, while the maxed-out 32GB of RAM have been very useful...

imaginenore 10y ago
Unless you're reading/writing massive files to disk (like in video editing), pretty much only IOPS/latency matter. Even the cheap SSDs are fast enough at linear reads/writes.

diego 10y ago

I really want to get one of these, but I can't get myself to. I have a 2015 Macbook and I hate the keyboard. I thought I'd get used to it but never did, the one in an older Air is so much more comfortable to me. I went to the Apple Store twice to try out the new keyboard and, while it's better, I can't imagine being happy with it. Does anyone else feel the same way or is it just me?

make3 10y ago
same. without f keys and with fewer connectors, this generation is almost strictly a downgrade from the 2015 version. also.. the touch bar.. I'm a programmer, I don't look at my fingers when I type, why would I want to have a screen there
krrrh 10y ago
I've had my 2016 MBP for about ten days. Just used my air for the first time since then and couldn't believe how spongey and rattley the old keyboard felt. I know a few other people who feel the same way. Personal preference and finger habits are a big factors with these keyboards, and seem to be something people adapt to at different rates, or not at all.
krrrh 10y ago
I've had my 2016 MBP for about ten days. Just used my air for the first time since then and couldn't believe how spongey and rattley the old keyboard felt. I know a few other people who feel the same way. Personal preference and finger habits are a big factors with these keyboards, and seem to be something people adapt to at different rates, or not at all.
dkonofalski 10y ago
I didn't think I'd like the new keyboard but I was forced to use it as it's a work-supplied machine. After less than a month of using it, it's my favorite keyboard of any machine I own, including my mechanical keyboard. The travel is nice, the keys feel solid, it's got a nice click, and I can type faster. Took a bit of getting used to, but it's awesome, imo.

hmigneron 10y ago

I'm always surprised when developers don't talk about the F keys in their reviews of the new MBP. I mostly agree with the author regarding the escape key, the touch bar isn't really a problem in that regard, it still works and I got used to "pressing" it on the touchbar really quickly. I really really miss physical F keys though. I spend a lot of time debugging (either in the Chrome debugger or in IDEs) where pressing F-Something seems to be the norm to step into / step over. The lack of feedback makes it a lot harder to use these keys repeatedly (in my experience anyway). I know I could change the keys but... To be honest, that's the one thing that really bothers me about the new machine, I got used to everything else pretty quickly. I should note that I was forced to switch to the new model (my 2014 MBP was stolen). I didn't want a new machine, wasn't happy about getting one and started using it in the worst circumstances which probably didn't help me "learn to love the touchbar". Insurance paid for the new machine so price wasn't an issue for me. I don't think it's an abomination or anything, I just never find it better than a normal keyboard with F keys (I don't do video editing or anything where a timeline might help me). Other developers who use the touchbar MBP, do you not miss the F-Keys ? Have you changed the keys you use to debug ?

WildUtah 10y ago
It's a real detriment to UI, it costs you battery life, it's a distracting gimmick, and it adds $200 to the cost of your machine. And Apple will never give up on it. Every Mac is going to be worse for years and years because of it. Enjoy.
- r00fus 10y ago
  If Apple keeps it, they will improve on it to the point where it doesn't suck.
  - skyrw 10y ago
    The second that happens they will remove it in the following release.
  - hpaavola 10y ago

fineline 10y ago

My work recently offered to replace my 2013 retina MBP, at no cost to myself, as it went out of (extended) warranty. I declined. I'd rather wait and see if they improve the offering later this year. Come on Apple, lift your game.

lunaru 10y ago

At the end of the day, it's just a so-so offering from Apple that has more than a so-so price tag attached. But, in it's defense, I will say one thing: I thought I would hate the keyboard. I'm the guy who spends hundreds on the best mechanical keyboards, but I was left completely impressed with the new keyboard and how well it just works. Everything about is wrong on paper, but when you begin typing, the results are undeniable. The old macbooks had the best laptop keyboard bar none and this generation's is even better. Now that I'm done praising one thing about it, I'll go back to beating the dead horse: Where's the 32GB model? :)

muninn_ 10y ago
Agree with the keyboard. The 32gb model is waiting on Intel.

justanother 10y ago

> The keyboard has suffered so much criticism that I have to wonder: who of those who condemn it, have actually used it for a sustained period? I got a 2015 Macbook as soon as it shipped. Within a few months, the butterfly mechanism had collapsed on several keys. A couple Apple Store repairs later, they're still breaking often enough that the 2015 Macbook is mostly collecting dust and shame. When I saw what they'd done with the MBPr for 2016, I decided to overhaul pre-2016 ones indefinitely, because it's pretty much that or Dell XPS13 hackintosh. That keyboard is proof that the devil is not only real, but has subverted Apple's once-rigorous design process. The rest of the machine looks good to me.

brentis 10y ago

I saw the new MacBooks in person 2 days ago and kept asking, "why would I buy one of these?" Cheap feeling keyboard, useless difference in thickness, and only 16gb. Not going back under 32 with Photoshop ever. I'll stick with my 2013 and look at a Lenovo 2-1 next. Pretty tired of OS X too.

rimantas 10y ago
Your 2013 came with 32GB RAM?
- phaed 10y ago
  They are upgradable.
  - mciancia 10y ago
    They are not.
    - brentis 10y ago
      I should clarify.. I have 32 on my iMac and use my mbp for remote Photoshop. It has 16Gb I believe. I want to move to just one device vs. two with desktop monitor for home - not going to do it with current 2016 MBPs as my primary. Fwiw I don't like the fake click on the trackpads or iPhone 7's either. Already started moving away when pine 7 came out - went with Pixel xl and couldn't be happier.
jonaswi 10y ago
I was in the exact same situation. I was so tired of being forced to buy overpriced hardware from apple that I'm not even happy with just because I work with OS X. I then bought a new Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition and was really surprised that a) the scaling doe snot even work with dells own "tweaked" Ubuntu (even the installer looked horrible) and b) "coil whine" is a thing at this price point. I was so unhappy with it that I sold it weeks later. To replace the Dell I bought an HP spectre x360 and was really happy with the hardware but could not get the thunderbolt ports to work with ubuntu. Eventually I also returned it. I "surrendered" and bought the new MBP and so far I'm quite happy with it. But it still feels very uncomfortable to be so "dependant" on one manufacturer. Other than the thunderbolt problem (which I'm sure will be fixed soon) I was really happy with Ubuntu as my main OS. I really do hope that other manufactures step up their game so I can finally switch without too much compromises.

tachion 10y ago

Since the author quotes prices in GBP, I'd say to everyone - skip the Apple Care! In UK consumer electronics state-enforced-warranty (or whatever these particular consumer rights are called) is 6 years. That's not a typo, it is 6 years and I've used it twice for my Apple gear that was outside of manufacturer's warranty and without Apple Care. Save yourself £329 and know your rights. And dont get my word on it, check it out yourself, it's even on Apple web pages ;)

H4CK3RM4N 10y ago
Don't do this with iOS devices though. Apple care discounts screen replacements/other repairs significantly with mobile devices.
- tachion 10y ago
  As far as consumer rights are concerned, you shouldn't give a damn what the manufacturer discontinues. If the device fails within 6 years it should be fixed, replaced (happened to me, brand new iPhone 5 handed over immediately) or refunded.
  - thirdsun 10y ago
    discounts, not discontinues.
fludlight 10y ago
So it's a bit more nuanced than that. You can get an I-changed-my-mind full refund in the first 14 days but only if you bought the item online. You can also get a full refund in the first 30 days if the item is defective whether you bought it online or in a brick and mortar store. You can also get a full refund in the first 6 months if it is defective and cannot be repaired or replaced. After six months, you can only get a partial refund and only if the item is defective. IMHO that's still pretty good. The rules vary a bit between England and Scotland and I am too tired to look up Wales and Northern Ireland right now. https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds https://www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/files/Returns%20policies_EW_CONSUMER_RIGHTS_SUMMARY.pdf https://www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/files/Retur... (linked from the above gov.uk URL) https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/return-faulty-goods/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-w...

mactunes 10y ago

I've also been a Mac user for 20 years and can totally relate to the conclusion he made: I felt betrayed by Apple's pricing on this machine. I decided to not get a Mac for the first time since 1996 and so far haven't regretted the move.

mcjiggerlog 10y ago
What did you get, out of interest?
- mactunes 10y ago
  ASUS ZenBook UX360UAK

Smaug123 10y ago

One point of the website design I loved: the hover-over on each acronym. It gives you something to Google if you don't know what the acronym means.

jrapdx3 10y ago
That is a nice addition that should be used more often. On this site the abbreviations were common, but many articles use obscure, domain-specific, or non-standard abbreviations, where the full name "tool-tips" would be extremely useful in making the info accessible to a wider range of readers. Most of the time the full name is something I recognize. Problems arise because abbreviated names frequently collide, a short identifier can apply to several different things especially across fields. Even a list at the end of the piece would be better than having to hunt around trying to find out what was meant in a particular context.

EnderMB 10y ago

I waited for over a year for the new MBP to come out, but in the end I shelled out a bit more money for a Surface Book. Since then, I've used the new MBP, and while it's a great machine I don't regret my purchase for a second. My only gripe with the Surface Book is that installing Linux is a bit of a nightmare (not sure if this is still the case), but I'm happy enough with running Ubuntu on a virtual machine.

yokohummer7 10y ago
And Windows Subsystem for Linux! While all my server and development stuffs are based on Linux, I wasn't particularly a fan of the Linux GUIs. The reason MacBook was attractive was that it runs POSIX. But now Windows can do that too thanks to WSL. It's not complete but even the current partial support does enough for me. It's a cheap, lightweight alternative to Linux VMs. I guess I would go with a Windows-based laptop next time. It is truly a game changer.
- matthewking 10y ago
  I'm considering this too, Windows 10 still has some annoying UI inconsistencies but its getting there, and with the Ubuntu subsystem its viable for Linux based dev's without setting up a VM. I mean technically its closer to my target production environment than macOS is. I haven't spent that long trying it out but managed to get a Rails 5 app up and running without much fuss, I'm with you on it being a game changer.
  - yokohummer7 10y ago
    > I mean technically its closer to my target production environment than macOS is. Huh, I didn't think about that, but you're right. Yeah, I won't have to deal with slightly different shell tools that are bundled with macOS. I'm not saying those tools are bad, it's just that I'm so used to GNU tools. Also, the directory structures and the kernel interfaces will exactly be the same as Ubuntu. Good point.
therealunreal 10y ago

HalfwayToDice 10y ago

I wish there was more acknowledgement of how NOISY the keyboard is on the new MacBook Pros. It's not possible to use it in a quiet environment without being embarrassed.

xaldir 10y ago

It's a well written review, but I can't think of it as anything else than a "loyal Apple customer" trying to convince himself that his £3,700 toy is not that bad.

chadcmulligan 10y ago

I don't hear much about the display on the MBP, it's as near to perfect as any display I've ever seen, using text is beautiful, the colour depth is extraordinary - and its a laptop. I plugged in a new external 1080p monitor and thought at first there was something wrong with it, but no it's just the difference in crispness. Not only that you can run 2 external 5K monitors! from a laptop! The SSD's are so fast, it's also so quiet - you never hear the fan. The only negative is it gets warm when charging on my lap. I too don't see the point of the touchbar though, it's a cute gadget to play with. The sound is remarkable, though the whole laptop vibrates when the sound is turned up (edit: though there's no audible distortion or vibration noises which is pretty unique for a laptop too). It is without a doubt the most perfect laptop I have ever owned, like everyone I would have liked to pay less for it. I'll use it for the next three years then give it too my daughter and she'll use it for another three years like my last one. I'm very happy with my purchase.

yokohummer7 10y ago
One thing I find odd about the display is that it somehow changes white balance occasionally depending on the content. I'm not sure if this only happens on BootCamp or not, but it's a bit surprising. Is there any setting to turn off this?
- AsyncAwait 10y ago
  My MBP display occasionally gets a greenish tint.
- gog 10y ago
  Are you maybe running f.lux?
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    They mentioned context, not time of day.
pier25 10y ago
> I don't hear much about the display on the MBP, it's as near to perfect as any display I've ever seen I mentioned it in my article. It has a wider gamut and brighter panel, but color fidelity wise it's worse than it's predecessors. https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-fadf27ab4b https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-fad...

Terretta 10y ago

> Best of all is the distinct click each key makes when pressed. I have spent hundreds of pounds on mechanical keyboards in the past to get such a click. I love the positive feedback from this keyboard and find myself typing more assuredly on it than I did on its predecessor... This is only best if you type by yourself in a soundproofed room. In a business workplace where everyone has the prior model MacBook Pro, when you start typing on this one, the sounds of your 'assured' typing become the topic.

GoofballJones 10y ago

The last part of the review says it all.

Elect2 10y ago

Apple is doing wrong things to macbook these years.

epaga 10y ago

Wow, until this article I had no idea BetterTouchTool now supported touch bar customization. This is huge. Next to the crazy price, the touch bar was my only other gripe about my 15" tMBP - I absolutely love the keyboard, the huge touch pad, and everything else about it. But now with this tool (I've been tinkering around with it for a bit now), that last complaint is entirely gone. The touch bar is finally useful now - contextual, customizable, visual shortcuts for anything I'd want to do on the Mac. Super powerful.

canuckintime 10y ago
I'm a huge fan of BetterTouchTool. I even bought a SiriRemote ($99!) just to tinker with it after BTT implemented support. However the TouchBar is just a UI deadend. We are trained to not look down at our keyboards. My BTT shortcuts for the trackpad and MM are completely memorized so my eyes keep focus on the screen and work in front of me. I can't not do the same for the Touchbar with its changing contextual visual shortcuts. I have to glance down to confirm the context and the shortcuts. Glancing down at the touchbar means breaking concentration. Even if Apple adds haptic feedback in V2 it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of glancing away from my main screen to a tiny touchstrip. T he touchbar is simply a crutch until the iPad wins or Apple makes a full touchscreen Mac. It's a waste of time. I'd much rather Apple have continued to implement the trackpad haptic feedback controls into the rest of their apps.

bartread 10y ago

I'm currently running a late-2015 15-inch Macbook Pro, with all specs maxxed out, and have no plans to upgrade until probably next year. Still, even in 2015 the 16GB RAM limit annoyed me because I often run OSX and Windows side-by-side with Parallels. Whilst SSD is fast, it still ain't no RAM, and with 2 x VS instances, different versions of SQL Server, Couchbase, Oracle, and Tibco all running at the same time I'd really like to be able to give my Windows VM at least 16GB to work with. The other big rub with the new MBP for me is that smaller battery. As mentioned I run Parallels which is just awful for sucking CPU (even when Windows itself appears to be using none; see their support forums). It's actually turned into a really crappy and aggravating product across a number of fronts but this is by far the biggest problem because it absolutely canes the battery. I often find myself having to work disconnected, so it's a real issue when running Windows. I also don't much appreciate the non-user-upgradeable SSD. I've enjoyed (and used) the option to swap out the stock drive in previous MBP incarnations, to great effect (and cost savings), so the fact that you can no longer do so and are forced to pay Apple's prices for storage (albeit very fast storage), is frustrating. The other changes don't really bother me too much. I can actually see the touchbar being much more useful than function keys in many cases because it'll reduce the need to remember keyboard shortcuts. Instead custom rendering will make it obvious what the widgets are for. I agree with the author's point about haptic feedback though. For me, thinness and lightness are not fundamental driving factors. Sure, I appreciate a lighter laptop - and I don't want to return to the bad old days of massive, heavy laptops with giant power supplies (I'm looking at you, Dell) - but not if that means compromising in other important areas. I'd prefer a slightly heavier machine with more (user-upgradeable) RAM, a bigger battery (especially to compensate for the extra RAM), and upgradeable storage. I've said it before but I feel like, despite the machine's name, Apple are somewhat disregarding the needs of the "pros" who use it.

rayiner 10y ago
How often do you work out of LTE range? RDP is very usable if you need to use Windows for work.
- tomaskafka 10y ago
  I confirm - RDP is super awesome, a reason why I converted my home 'server' from mac to windows.

rsynnott 10y ago

> Apple have increased the native resolution/scaling in comparison to my previous MBP. It’s now practical to work with two half-width, adjacent windows on this laptop’s display. Something that never seemed workable on its predecessor.2 This fact alone makes for some serious productivity wins. You could actually always set it to do this; they've just changed the defaults. A surprising number of users seem to be unaware of this, though.

netcraft 10y ago
I didn't know this and just did it on my previous gen macbook, thanks!

majortennis 10y ago

more than a little over priced , apple suck wish people would stop encouraging them

simonpantzare 10y ago

I can't believe they let this keyboard issue slip through: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7762123?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7762123?start=0&tstart=.... When the laptop gets warm some keys' key-up sound change. I have the issue on the N (worst), X, B, and caps lock keys, but it seems to be different keys for everybody. I hope that you will be able to have it fixed in-store soon, don't want to wait days for a replacement laptop especially if it's likely to have the same issue. Now, admittedly it's quite a minor annoyance. But it's such a basic "feature" that keys sound the same that I don't want them to get away with it, if that makes sense.

SomeHacker44 10y ago

I have the 13" Touch Bar model. I have no end of problems with the ESC key. The touch bar ESC key has no tactile feedback. It has no haptic feedback. I can't tell if I hit it or not. Literally, what used to be a completely unconscious use of a heavily used key (vim, Command-Tab change mind, drag & change mind, etc.) now is literally a 2-3 second mental interrupt every time I want to use it, because now I have to make sure I hit it, and that the hit registers. The rest of the touch bar is similarly problematic. Using interactive debugging? I used to rest my fingers on F5-6-7 for step-over, step-into and continue, then I could just wiggle one finger to keep stepping. Well, no longer. I can't rest my fingers, I have no tactile feedback when I hit one of these things, and I have to look at the keyboard to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I haven't looked at a keyboard since 1982, and probably earlier. (Well, maybe except when I was learning my way around my Symbolics keyboard.) Use WINE? Too bad - you can't force the touch bar to always be F1-12 in System Preferences. Sucks for huge numbers of games. Which, even if you hit Fn-F-key, still suffers from the problem that it does a 2-3 second mental interrupt and glance at the keyboard. Essentially the Mac is no longer suitable for keyboard gaming. My wife generally goes to sleep an hour or two before me. I very often will take my laptop and do some recreational coding at night as she likes it when I'm there with her while she falls asleep. Well, not anymore. This keyboard is so loud that several nights a week she tells me to leave. I finally gave up and bought an Alienware 13R3 so at least I can play some games while in bed. (That OLED display is the most amazing display I've ever had, parenthetically.) On top of this, several keys have started to "squeak." I don't know how better to describe it, but several of the keys definitely make odd high pitched sounds when you hit them. Not all the time, but if you hit them off center. Absolute disaster. I will never buy another Apple computer until they get rid of this. Please give me a non-Touch-Bar model ASAP! The track pad, however, is excellent. I don't use the Touch ID. I really don't want the police getting into my stuff without my authorization.