11 ms·

What no one talks about when running and selling a business

288 points by nreece 10y ago

nebabyte 10y ago
Sounds like the author has personal problems they're mistakenly ascribing to their work. Many of their assertions are simply not true (It's possible to be confident without "being an asshole"; I know several such people), and it just comes across as written by an unreliable narrator (if I cared about this person's issues, I'd likely be asking the people who shunned him about what happened and see if the stories matched).
- jmcgough 10y ago
  > Sounds like the author has personal problems they're mistakenly ascribing to their work. I struggled socially in my early 20s and avoided dealing with it by drowning myself in work. Intentionally or not, it sounds like working nonstop meant he didn't have much time for personal development.
- notahacker 10y ago
  It sounds like the same article about the same person could have been written the other way round: how being a startup founder hyper-focused on the future helped smooth over social awkwardness, because most of his social interactions were with people with strong financial incentives to get along with him, and his mind was far too occupied with other priorities to feel insecure about the possibility others might envy his material wealth or judge his lifestyle choices.
- SmellyGeekBoy 10y ago
  I'm surprised I had to scroll more than halfway through the discussion to find this comment. I got the exact same impression reading the post. That said, it does look like the author possesses some level of self-awareness and is working on his issues.
- bartread 10y ago
  Hmm. I'm not so sure. It's very hard to know someone in a meaningful way based on something they've written, and especially such a short piece. I think the author is just trying to be honest but maybe it's come off somewhat awkwardly. Branding him an asshole based on such a limited perspective into his life is perhaps premature.
edblarney 10y ago
"I looked at her “like a little girl” when we were having a conversation." Almost all of the examples of 'having a hard time around other people' amount to their self perceptions not necessarily the authors actions. It's impossible to 'look at someone like a little girl'. It's mostly likely that these people either feel insecure, or, they project certain qualities upon the author. I have a very 'straight face' and because of lack of emotional response, people have asked 'why am I angry at them?' when I had not even a whiff of such emotion. I was literally deeply contemplating what they were saying! Now - it there may be other tons of behavioural signals - and it's possible the author was treating someone as a little girl, i.e. not paying attention, being dismissive, condescending without knowing it - which would then give a different characteristic to that persons opinion. And it's easy for someone to create feelings when a successful person 'pulls up in a Tesla'. Any hint at bragging/humble-bragging in any way might be taken the wrong way. But it's a good article, at least it's good to have some self-reflection/self-awareness.
- aerovistae 10y ago
  > It's impossible to 'look at someone like a little girl'. It's mostly likely that these people either feel insecure, or, they project certain qualities upon the author. It's definitely possible to have a look in your eyes and facial expression and body language that clearly says "I'm not taking you seriously right now."
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  >I have a very 'straight face' and because of lack of emotional response, people have asked 'why am I angry at them?' when I had not even a whiff of such emotion. I was literally deeply contemplating what they were saying! Well I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one with this problem.
  - CharlesW 10y ago
    Friend, many of us carry this burden. Here's the technical term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resting_bitch_face https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resting_bitch_face
- 10y ago
st3v3r 10y ago
This kind of thing is why anyone who says the answer to all unemployment is "make a startup" shouldn't be taken seriously. Hell, the first thing they say is that they basically cut everyone but a couple people out of their life. Most people are not prepared to do that, and quite frankly, they shouldn't in order to put food on the table.
GoRudy 10y ago
I also sold my startup. same story as far as revenue, exit etc. I'm not sure that selling your company was the reason for your social issues. I've had the best year of my life post acquisition - spending more time with family, friends and thinking what's next. constantly thinking about what's next, it's actually annoying that I can't turn it off. The "how much did you make" question is super annoying and it happens but generally those around me are respctful and understand that I still plan to work and in many ways will need to. Not enough to do nothing, enough to choose something meaningful and not waste our precious time. My only advice to you is don't be afraid to reconnect with some old friends and embrace new ones, especially friends of friend who don't know much about your exit and ask to hang out with you because of who you are when they interact with you sans knowing your financial history.
- thrownfaraway12 10y ago
  I also, also sold my startup last year and am sitting on a nice pile of FU money. The pace I'd wound myself up to over the past 10 years of building culminated with a truly awful 2016 where I did little else but road-show, due-diligence, and try to hit targets required to close. I haven't spoken to some friends in years, and I'm having trouble connecting with current friends & other parents in my community who are mostly "professionals" with 9-to-5s. So I can identify w/the article, but my experience more closely mirrors GoRudy's - since we sold, and I started recovering from the chaos life has been great. The two things outside of family that brought me back into balance: 1) Going to entrepreneur meet-ups and HELPING! I love diving in and helping other people on the path, making connections that are hard to find, etc. I would never have made it without people helping me, I use them as a model for helping entrepreneurs now. 2) Charity. Not "go to a donor party / write a big check" charity but meaningful, directed contributions are an amazing thing for the soul. May we all have such high quality problems!
  - inspector-g 10y ago
    Do you know of a good way to search/find such entrepreneur meet-ups? I find myself craving this sort of interaction more and more as time goes on.
pcunite 10y ago
Material things do not make people happy, at all. This! This is the found God moment everyone needs to come to. We will all die. You had better get your eternity in order. Answer that call within, and go find the true "why" that is eating at you on the inside. Read Acts 2:38.
- wickawic 10y ago
  It is worth noting that you can also find fulfillment in intangible things that are not religiously oriented. Teaching/taking courses, artistic endeavors, and volunteering come to mind.
  - hkmurakami 10y ago
    Agreed. Once you have the basics fulfilled and don't have to worry about your day to day material needs, the excess capital can be utilized towards experiences rather than possessions (of course there will always be objects that give us great emotional joy).
  - espeed 10y ago
    "Repent" properly translated means metanoia, the journey of changing one's mind, heart, self or way of life. It's the journey that converges towards love and truth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanoia_(theology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanoia_(theology)
    - phaed 10y ago
      That is quite contrived, off with you!
      - espeed 10y ago
        In what way? Maybe you're missing the context from the now-flagged top-level comment.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
skookumchuck 10y ago
> But the rest of the world doesn’t give a fuck about you or your experience. That's true whether or not your are successful. In any case, the only people who are genuinely happy about your success are your parents.
smaili 10y ago
Unfortunately, I no longer have very many friends. I worked so hard in my 20s and early 30s that I let my closest relationships lapse in the name of making money. It’s tough to keep friends around when you’re either working, or work is on your mind 24/7. One of the unfortunate side effects of hustle/grit/what have you, that I myself experienced and can relate to the author.
- AznHisoka 10y ago
  On the other hand, most friendships die out when people reach their late 20s (career, moving elsewhere, kids, marriage) so it might have been inevitable even if you didnt do a startup.
- hackits 10y ago
  ammmm, if your friendship requires constant hand holding then I would say it would better to lose them faster (early on) because they're not going to be around when you hit the hard times. My definition of a friend is someone you can rely on when things goes to shit eg... Being half way across the country and you've just been robbed and they drive 20 hours to pick you up. Now if they cannot even meet you half way across town because you have a deadline then I will say you don't have a friend.
  - alpha_squared 10y ago
    > My definition of a friend is someone you can rely on when things goes to shit eg... Being half way across the country and you've just been robbed and they drive 20 hours to pick you up. Yes, that's one possible quality in a friend. Another is making time for _their_ shit as well and it doesn't sound like the author did very much of that. It's also nice to make time for friends without having to deal with either yours or their dilemmas and just enjoy each other's company.
    - hackits 10y ago
      Agree, _their_ shit may not be important to you but it's important to them that's where within reason you step in to help out where you can. Vanishing at the first sign of problem tells it wasn't really friendship but more college or associate.
econner 10y ago
Is it possible that his experience is not representative? Edit: Digging a bit further, it looks like the startup that he sold was Valet Gourmet which was a food delivery business in North Carolina and he worked on it for ~12 years. That's probably a bit longer than the tech startup timelines we tend to think of here.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  >That's probably a bit longer than the tech startup timelines we tend to think of here. That is something I learnt from my startups, running and selling them; things will take far longer and people quit way too soon. If you start a business, any business, thinking you will make fuck you money in 15 years is much more relaxed and better chances of success in my experience. Plenty of side projects I made over 10 years ago are still popular running on crappy tech and companies I co founded 20 years ago still exist and make profits. People think a lot changes but it doesn't; it changes on HN and Reddit but not the rest of the world even though the big changes like mobile happened; with a sprinkle of responsive over ancient html/css suddenly people use it again like it just launched. Edit; in no way I want to imply to live on ramen for 15 years; live a good life all that time, but, at least in your mind, think the riches/exit will happen in a long time from now. It makes it all less bank or bust stress.
gydfi 10y ago
> Material things do not make people happy, at all. Everybody says this, all the time. I would like to propose the controversial theory that actually material things do make people happy, at least within certain constraints. When I was younger I had shitty cheap material things which made me unhappy. Now I have better stuff which makes me happier. I used to have a shitty unairconditioned apartment. That made me unhappy. Now I have an apartment whose temperature isn't a problem. I used to have cheap furniture, which was uncomfortable, and that made me unhappy. Now I have better furniture which is comfortable, I am happier. I used to have a cheap unreliable car, which broke down and made me unhappy. Now I have a reliable, comfortable car I have no reason to be unhappy. If you're a baseline-unhappy person (as I suspect the author is) then material goods are unlikely to improve your unhappiness. But I'm a baseline fairly happy person, I don't get unhappy unless there's a specific reason, like discomfort or inconvenience. Sensible acquisition of material goods can remove discomfort and inconvenience, thus making you happy.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  I think OP's line is hyperbole, and that you're both getting at the same thing in the end. Once you do remove your sources of baseline discomfort, material upgrades above that level don't move the needle much anymore.
  - gydfi 10y ago
    I'm not convinced the baseline is that low, I think most middle class people still have discomfort or inconvenience which could be removed. For instance I now sit in a comfy chair at home, but when I fly somewhere I'm stuck being uncomfortable in economy. And then there's the big one: I have to go to work, every day, whether I feel like it or not. Inconvenient!
- bigbetsbigmoney 10y ago
  the point you're making is exactly the reason for the cliche of 'money wont buy you happiness". it is the thought that buying these things (that give us momentary happiness) will equate to long term happiness. in 20,30,40 years, how airconditioned your apartment was (or wasn't) will have little bearing on your overall level of happiness at that point. also, your last few sentences contradict what you wrote earlier. you said you don't get unhappy unless theres a specific reason, right after you gave 3 examples of you being unhappy without a real reason.
paulsutter 10y ago
The brutally honest truth about this guy is that he's an insecure prick who loves boasting > Only 0.4% of all businesses make it to $10M in annual revenue. We made it almost halfway through...When I sold my startup, we had 100 people working with us. > Unfortunately, I no longer have very many friends... > ...Tesla...$300 pairs of jeans, $450 pairs of boots, concrete countertops...trips to New Zealand no longer bother me. That’s great and all, however ...you come across as a tone deaf asshole.
- alpha_squared 10y ago
  I understand how it can come out that way, but I didn't read it that way. He's genuinely trying to straddle the fine line between being honest about recognizing where he is and how he's perceived while simultaneously acknowledging his accomplishments. It's not easy to walk that line. I see the author coming from a humbled, almost despairing perspective. That _despite_ his accomplishments, which he lists for emphasis, he's not happy.
  - slackstation 10y ago
    It isn't that he isn't trying. It's that it's clear that despite trying, he still isn't seeing it. He talks about being a "pretty good" listener but, not catching the fact that people he respects and admires feel like he's constantly talking down to them. It's an easy trap to fall into and I imagine a hard one to get out of (not because I'm not an asshole but, because I'm not rich enough to say that I'm in his position). He just clearly doesn't understand himself. Startup culture looks at this thing called exiting as the very hard thing that very few people do sucessfully and then we look at the few that do it as some kind of oracle. We want answers to hard questions and automatically think that people that achieved success have found it. Maybe he isn't this business savant and maverick. Maybe he just got lucky and the momentum of that took him over the line into success. I'm not saying it was easy but, maybe his success isn't because of the things he thinks it is.
    - hkmurakami 10y ago
      He's far from the only person who's had to struggle through this. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he sincerely does not want to be seen as a rich asshole. His wealth is still very new to him and there's an adjustment process. Both individuals and entire nations go through this adjustment process of newfound wealth. It gets to your head and it takes some time to work it out of your system, counting your mistakes each time you "slip up" and show your materialistic, vain side again and again. But if his desire to be a decent guy who happened to work hard and made it, then he'll figure things out for himself.
ithought 10y ago
All these things he listed (losing touch with friends, ruining business opportunities, treating people poorly, appearing 'higher class') happen to almost everyone at some point in life but without being rich.
- feistypharit 10y ago
  Ya, it seems his real issue is he spent his 20s and 30s with the goal of getting money and now that he has it winners what's next. I believe the term is midlife crisis. I do find it sad that he,like so many other people just write off how hard and important it is to raise kids. "I'm not a stay at home parent". I've heard it from doctors, CEOs, and others. As a society we really need to stop outsourcing the raising of our children.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - espeed 10y ago
    I believe the term is midlife crisis. Yes, identity crisis. If your identity for the last 10 years has been too tied to your role at work, it can leave you in a state of crisis (identity diffusion) when it's gone [1]. In a founder's mind, your identity/self-image can become almost indistinguishable from your company, unless it was solid to begin with. And when your identity has been bound too tightly to an external thing -- and the external thing is gone -- it uncorks a big gaping void of unresolved issues that's been masked all those years. You've likely been acting in accordance with your projected identity -- your persona, your artificial/false-self, your source of pride -- and now that it's gone, your underdeveloped ego (your true self) is left in a state of crisis, caught in a whirlwind between your base impulses (your id) and who you think you should be (your super-ego) [2]. When you recognize what's going on inside and reconcile the two, the turmoil will subside and your reasoned, authentic self will emerge. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_crisis [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego
    - 10y ago
ithought 10y ago
All these things he listed (losing touch with friends, ruining business opportunities, treating people poorly, appearing 'higher class') happen to almost everyone at some point in life but without being rich.
espeed 10y ago
Brutal truth -- sounds like arrogance.
aorloff 10y ago
This is what happens when a string player makes it. You want to see some folks having fun or making music after an exit, talk to the horns or rhythm section.
- yakshaving_jgt 10y ago
  I don't understand this metaphor but I like it anyway.
danschumann 10y ago
Gee, he doesn't come off as a hard heart, talking over people, 100% too confident, know-it-all, or do-as-I-say-- until you actually start reading the article. Expert on what not to do I guess, but I can't follow.
d--b 10y ago
And now he can write another one, about how much crap he got from people when he took his story to medium.
jacquesm 10y ago
I don't see the correlation between 'being an asshole' and 'sold my start-up'. There are plenty of successful entrepreneurs that are perfectly capable of relating to others and treating their fellow men, friends and family with dignity and respect. Some people succeed because they're playing nice with others, some succeed in spite of not being able to do so, some even succeed because they are are assholes. There is no correlation here and you probably won't be able to extract many lessons from this piece, no one talks about it because it isn't a particularly common experience. Wealth does not typically turn assholes in to non-assholes.
- Gustomaximus 10y ago
  I read this article in the same way. Some kind of narcissistic personality that doesn't want to account for they are simply an arsehole and needs excuses. Sound like when they were CEO of ~100 employees they could get away with people accepting this behavior and feel accepted but now they lost 'im in control of your career' the reality check is here and they are looking for excuses.
- searchfaster 10y ago
  Exactly... I had the opportunity to meet an almost Billion dollar company founder. I went in feeling awkward but he was very nice, treated me with dignity and respect and never once did I feel uncomfortable. Within minutes, I felt like I was conversing with any one of my other colleagues or friends.
  - yourapostasy 10y ago
    This is a learned skill anyone can refine, even before picking up their FU money, at virtually any income level. Even if you are a uni student; perhaps especially if you are a uni student. Nearly anywhere you go in the world, there will be people living in destitution on the streets. While a good proportion in the US have mental and substance abuse issues, an astounding number are starved for simple, decent, human companionship. Just someone, anyone, who treats them as another decent human being. Instead of a "drive-by", "dialing-it-in" donation where you hand them some goods and/or money, receive a "thank you", and that is the extent of the interaction (though they do appreciate that as well). Sit down with them. Offer to buy them a meal at a nearby diner and say you want someone to chat with. Ask them how their day has been. Be a conversationalist to listen to their stories; and boy, do some of them ever have stories. Imagine you two are sitting next to each other on the same bus, and have an hour until you reach your destination.
Indolat 10y ago
> When you roll up to someone’s house in a Tesla, how can they help but assume that you’re just a judgmental asshole? Am I the only one who feels that those guys were judgmental assholes rather than the author?
- joemi 10y ago
  Based solely on that sentence, no, you're not the the only one. But based on the entire piece, I don't think he paints a very good picture of himself.
  - Indolat 10y ago
    He didn't write about doing something really bad, did he?
danilocesar 10y ago
Ignoring a bit all that I'm-a-successful-Ceo, when most of the "people that mean the most to you" are saying that you are an asshole, take the advise: probably you're. Money doesn't necessary play a hole here. My bet is that you were an asshole before being a milionare. Check with those 'old friends that understand you'.
epx 10y ago
Sounded like those humor shows where the Rich Cousin said to the poor cousin he had soooooo many problems in his life, like having to buy all Christmas dinner ingredients from France ...
epx 10y ago
Sounded like those humor shows where the Rich Cousin said to the poor cousin he had soooooo many problems in his life, like having to buy all Christmas dinner ingredients from France ...
tardo99 10y ago
Buying a Tesla is embarrassing. My net worth is definitely higher than this dude's, and I don't have a Tesla.
- madengr 10y ago
  I can buy 10 lightly used Nissan Leafs for the price of a Tesla.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  Embarrassing how? Embarrassing to who?
eric_b 10y ago
I'm not sure I love the article, but I agree with the author's sentiment. I'm 4 years in to a successful bootstrapped startup, and I've lost many close acquaintances. I simply don't have time to keep the social connections alive and I have not prioritized them. I'm somewhat introverted by nature so this is not really a major concern of mine at this time, but I suspect it may be a regret later. What is challenging for me is the fact that most people cannot relate to my life. They can't understand why you'd work 60+ hours a week on a fledgling business. They can't understand the obsession and inability to "turn it off." They don't understand what it takes to get a customer to actually pay you, let alone build something people enjoy using and solves problems. I do find that many folks assume you just "lucked" your way in to success. And I think bootstrapped business owners have it the worst of all. It's comparably easy to spend VC cash once you get funding, rather than money from "your own pocket." It's not hard to justify hiring 5 people when the VCs explicitly tell you that's what the money is for. Bootstrapping a successful business is indeed a rare feat, and only the people who've been there can understand exactly how all consuming and difficult it is. (At least, that's been my experience so far)
- luckydude 10y ago
  The "lucked into" thing resonates with me. I've done pretty well and have had a zillion people tell me I got lucky. I used to really resent that. I bootstrapped my company, I took no salary for the first 2-3 years, instead I was out consulting to bring in money so I could pay the people who worked for me. That didn't seem like luck to me. I built technology that most of you use daily, before I came along people thought the answer to their SCM problems was Subversion. I had to fight like crazy to get smart people like Linus to understand that I had a better answer. It was tons and tons of work. Getting people to see the value of what I had built didn't seem like luck to me. I built a viable business and did all the sales. I used a portable phone with a base station that had an extra battery and it was routine that I would have to flip over to speaker phone, swap batteries, and continue the sales calls. 16 hour days were the norm on the phone. My view was that it wasn't luck, it was hard work. A lot of hard work. My view evolved. Yep, I did a ton of work, many many 80 hour weeks. Any founder knows what that is like. But there was an element of luck involved - I was at the right place, at the right time, with the right answers. Multiple times in my career that has happened. Is all the credit due to me? Not really, the luck part is being in a place where your work will go somewhere. You have to do all that hard work and you have to get lucky, hard work is not enough. And that is why I log in as luckydude.
scarface74 10y ago
I am in my 40s and I work with a young married guy in his mid 20s who i would consider a level 1 software engineer on a scale of 1 to 5. He is a dreamer thinking he can strike it rich with his great startup idea working on it part time because he hears stories of all the people who sold their startups and thinks that's such a glamorous life. First I told him about survivorship bias and laid out basically the same statistics as in the article. Then I showed him that he could double his income in 3-5 years just by learning the craft of software engineering - risk free -- and still have plenty of time to enjoy his new marriage and enjoy his hobbies. If his own company was struggling, he would be up late worrying about it. If the company he is working for is struggling and he keeps his skills up, he could easily get another job in our metro area. It's been that way for me for over 20 years. I enjoy being a corporate drone, I go to work every day and leave the job at work -- and I'm a technical lead -- imagine how easy it is if you are "just" a senior developer? If you are a two income family in a good job market with one income as the average senior software engineer, you are guaranteed to be well within the top 10% of earners and be able to live a pretty good life.
- ladytron 10y ago
  Founders don't start companies to live a "pretty good life in the top 10%". We do it because we are ambitious, want to solve huge technical and business problems, make our mark, and change the world. We usually have more energy and sleep less than others. We love work. We love our business. Most of us would not want to be corporate "drones". It would be like a living death.
  - ben_jones 10y ago
    I fear most entrepreneurs really do care about leaving a mark. Any mark. Ad tech companies? Big data (selling) companies? Marketing (convince the consumer to buy something excessive) companies? LinkedIn and other companies that intentionally force dark patterns on their users? Security companies selling spyware and hacking tools to anyone who'll pay? The world could do with fewer of those marks IMO.
    - 10y ago
jonmc12 10y ago
Buckminster Fuller, considering ego-suicide: "I see the hydrogen atom doesn't have to earn a living before behaving like a hydrogen atom. In fact, as best I can see, only human beings operate on the basis of 'having to earn a living'. The concept is one introduced into social conventions, only by the temporal power structure's dictum of the ages. If I am doing what God's evolutionary strategy needs to have accomplished, I need spend no further time worrying about such matters."
- AznHisoka 10y ago
  isnt our evolutionary destiny just to reproduce as much as possible?
  - xyzzy4 10y ago
    Or maybe it's to produce as much CO2 as possible.
    - thehardsphere 10y ago
      The correct answer is maximize the entropy of the universe, so both of those options work.
jondubois 10y ago
I have the same problems as the author but I also have to worry about money because none of the risks I took have paid off. The only thing I look forward to is the next economic crisis; then maybe I'll be able to build something out of the rubble of other people's failures. Economic stability is painful for me.
bigtunacan 10y ago
The whole article comes across as very defensive... here's all these examples of people seeing me as an asshole, but really I'm a nice guy. I try to relate, but it's not my fault I don't understand all of these people that are beneath me while I'm kicking it in my crib with my stone counter tops and $300 jeans. Oh I really love my wife and kid, but... I'm just so unfulfilled. Brutal truth to the author after having read the article is that he probably does qualify as being an asshole. As a slight counterpoint to that though, despite what everyone says it is okay to be an asshole up to a certain point. It is better to just own up to it though than to deny it. This is advice from a self admitted asshole.
- nebabyte 10y ago
  > Brutal truth to the author after having read the article is that he Should probably figure out his own issues before giving advice to other people about how their experiences "will go". (I'm sure some people can relate to the piece, but relating and getting good advice are two different things - if you're looking for the latter, ask someone who at minimum has a good grasp of where their problems truly stemmed from [likely because they're now seeing them after having solved them])
  - bobbles 10y ago
    >When you roll up to someone’s house in a Tesla, how can they help but assume that you’re just a judgemental asshole? This guy is projecting so hard he could be a movie theatre
    - hoodoof 10y ago
      >> When you roll up to someone’s house in a Tesla, So why turn up to someones house in a Tesla if you feel that makes you into a jerkey showoff? Get an ordinary car.
- mehwoot 10y ago
  Yes, he probably is an asshole. But at least he's self reflecting and attempting to modify his behaviour. That's a good first step. And I continually hurt those around me — just by being myself-and it’s beyond heartbreaking. Somewhere along the way, money truly changed me for the worst. Most assholes don't have that level of reflection so I'm not going to be too harsh
michalu 10y ago
His problems have nothing to do with the money... not sure why he correlates that. Sounds like he simply sucks at interpersonal skills ... E.g. "I feel like my opinion doesn't matter around him because I haven't made $1 mil" we'll if that's how you make people feel it's your fault... if they're simply insecure whiners it's your fault for keeping them in your life... Same thing with friends... Another area to improve would be a sense of style (no person with style buys $300 jeans, they're basically a product targeted at insecure nouveau riche... just shop at H&M) ... I guess the only reason this article is popular is that it comforts people who haven't made a million dollars that his life sucks too regardless...
- thehardsphere 10y ago
  He correlates the money to his problems as a ego defense mechanism. By blaming something external, he doesn't have to face that he is an "asshole," to use his own word. It's the difference between "money made me an asshole" and "I am an asshole and always was one." The first one is much easier to live with than the second one. Same with "my money made all of my friends insecure whiners" vs. "I filled my life with insecure whiners."
- paulcole 10y ago
  >no person with style buys $300 jeans There's definitely some very nice made in USA or Japan, raw denim at or above that price. They're definitely not household name brands though.
- tetrazine 10y ago
  > no person with style buys $300 jeans, they're basically a product targeted at insecure nouveau riche... just shop at H&M) Hi, I understand what you are trying to say here, but please consider investigating the world of apparel a little more deeply before making comments like this. H&M and similar fast-fashion companies are deeply involved in practices like blatant, continued design piracy from both famous and small, independent designers; as well as unsafe and exploitative labour practices, including in third-world countries. In addition, the clothes these stores produce are not very high quality and tend to degrade quickly, making them only useful for staying up-to-date with trends pioneered by the designers fast fashion brands mimic. Ethically designed and manufactured clothing that is of good value (ie lasts long) costs money to produce. $300 for a pair of jeans is very high, yes, but H&M is not the alternative I would recommend. I would also say that many people "with style" can easily and in fact viscerally tell the difference between a pair of H&M jeans and a higher-quality pair, and would not balk at paying that price for a piece of clothing, especially for a wardrobe staple like jeans. It is not a "nouveau riche" affectation as much as an appreciation for artistic vision, design, and craftsmanship. Of course personal income is a factor here and I'm not suggesting everyone should be paying that much for all the clothing they own. If you're interested in learning more about these topics, I recommend reading publications like WWD, The Business of Fashion, or The Fashion Law (though I am not vouching for their reporting and editorial stances in all cases). Consumer awareness of the nature of fast fashion is the only way I see for the fashion industry to move forward from these issues.
madengr 10y ago
Oh please. Enough with the changing the world BS.
- dang 10y ago
  You can't be uncivil like this on Hacker News regardless of how much you disagree with someone. Please don't do it again. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13665623 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13665623 and marked it off-topic.
oregontechninja 10y ago
This just feels like another click-bait article, from title to purely opinion based article.
nanis 10y ago
So, you're such a good leader and all and you hire to your weaknesses, but you could not figure out you needed to have someone proofread your post. Got it.
austincheney 10y ago
You don't have to have a multi-million dollar exit to go through this. You just have to find yourself in a position where you had some amazing responsibility and direction and now you don't in a way that mere mortals cannot relate. There are numerous different ways to get there. My story: For just about ever I have been a developer in the civilian world and an Army reservist. Normally the Army reserves thing is just a part time weekend gig doing some really boring administrative work, but sometimes its more. The first time I was in management I was 24 years old. I hadn't finished my bachelor's degree yet. I was working as the tech lead of network operations in a group called TNOSC. This network, though, covered all of US and coalition forces in Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan except for airport control systems. This was in 2004 during the post-invasion surge into Iraq. I am not sure how many dedicated users I had (maybe 100,000) but there around 300,000 people who were impacted by my network between coalition military forces and supporting civilians. For perspective 300,000 is bigger than Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple combined. In that management position I published the organization's taskorg (a diagram of who owns who plus the structure of our clients). We had two dedicated brigades to manage and my higher authority was CENTCOM with a dotted line to DISA. My clients were two 3-stars and a 4-star. Running that organization was somewhat like running a start-up in reverse. We already had business and dedicate clients to support, but just jumping you are actually figure out the necessary relationships and how to do the technical aspects of your job. Life doesn't wait for you to catch up. You just have to figure everything out immediately. In the real world I am software developer. I am not in management. I don't even bring up the prior military story. People simply cannot relate. They know the corporate world they are isolated into. In the civilian world you don't get magically dropped into that kind of position out of the blue. Furthermore, people outside the military are more fragile. In the civilian world one of the most important interpersonal qualities is kindness while in the military kindness isn't valued. In the military kindness is like hard work. In most jobs nobody is rewarded for hard work. They are reward for what they accomplish. Hard work is silently implied. In the military what's important is honesty, respect (above and below), and bluntness. I find in the corporate world I am constantly tempering my words and using my "inside voice" so that I don't come off as offensive. It is so easy to come off as an arrogant dick. People who have known me for a while or been through similar environments get it, but for everybody else its too easy to look like an asshole. This is even more true in that I work as a web (JavaScript) developer. The most frequent kind of developer in the web are people who don't want to be there, have absolutely no regard for the technologies, and wish they were doing something else. The other extreme are immature childish developers who work in the web because it has a lower barrier to entry in the contributor roles require a large dose of abstractions and dependencies for every aspect of their job. Both of these groups are different shades of imposters who constantly live in fear that they will be discovered. Pro tip - Everybody knows who the imposters are. I sure as hell cannot relate my military experiences to these groups who hanging to their one and only career by their nails.
juskrey 10y ago
Let's be brutally honest - most of the successful businesses are about selling harmful (mostly in the long run - people should be myopic, not entirely dumb) bullshit. And you have to possess certain qualities to succeed in that, which BTW work the best when you are not seeing part 1 as something bad at all. This WILL make your social life a kind of hell - and you deserve it. People are not dumb customers, though not always able to articulate that (ie from shame, halo effect etc)
blueyes 10y ago
I can't tell if this guy is a jerk or just pretending to be a jerk. But the tone is pitch perfect. Even the title is pure jerky clickbait. Here's a dude who talks about visioning as his main skill, is surprised when small groups of people don't want him to micromanage them, and falls deeper into solitude when he cannot discuss the problems of $400 boots with normal people. My heart bleeds. He should be transmuted into a parody for the HBO show. The really weird, deeper issue is that even when a totally un-self-aware human being like the author, or like the author is pretending to be, realizes they are totally un-self-aware, they still talk about it in an un-self-aware way where the reader is like STFU who cares... Lord protect us from what we want, and from who we are.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- espeed 10y ago
  It's called "covert narcissism". Whereas overt narcissists openly admit it and are proud of it -- to the point where the most effective method of determining if someone is an overt narcissist is to ask them directly, "are you a narcissist?" [1] -- a covert narcissist is in outward denial -- it's the humble brag, deflecting, blaming, playing the victim. Both are a form of mental blindness that prevent you seeing things as they truly are -- as are fear and __envy__ [2]. The first paragraph is telling (it's all there): The low-confidence cynic in me wants to tell you that a seven figure exit isn’t really that much. I have friends who have had eight figure exits, and I’m met multiple people who have had 10 figure exits. This is my experience as a guy who started a business with $10k in personal credit card debt and $200 in the bank, and accidentally ended up a millionaire. Envy is a sneaky devil, buried deep inside -- hard to see in yourself, hard to identify (maybe even moreso when you have money) -- but it's often at the root of anxiety and low self-esteem. And when envy and pride play tug-of-war, they wreak havoc. Snapping out of it requires humility -- true self-reflection, deep introspection -- and the courage to acknowledge and take responsibility for your actions. Perspective is key, but it's the thing they lack. [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140805150645.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140805150645.h... [2] https://outre-monde.com/2014/08/21/the-psychology-and-philosophy-of-envy/ https://outre-monde.com/2014/08/21/the-psychology-and-philos...
hoodoof 10y ago
I think if I got rich then I'd think very carefully about whether or not I wanted anyone else to know.
- battlebot 10y ago
  Yeah, well, here's the thing about that: If you don't explain your lifestyle to some people most just assume you're a broke bum, which is very annoying after awhile. I'm actually going to find some job to do because I can't stand sitting at home and I don't have quite enough money to be fully retired at 43 but it's like --->.<--- that close.
hoodoof 10y ago
It seems to me that money isn't the issue here. The issue is that this guy is a jerk, that's all. Sounds like he has taken becoming rich as a license to set his inner jerk free.
- clavalle 10y ago
  Yup. I've seen really nice people become incredibly wealthy and stay incredibly (maybe a little too) kind and I've seen petty people get a little more cash than their neighbors and become intolerable condescending assholes. It's about the person, not the money.
thehardsphere 10y ago
>The friends that I’ve maintained all along (and many of them are former employees) understand me. The equation of "employees" with "friends" here is a red flag for narcissism. It's possible to have friendly relationships with employees but that relationship is still primarily about exchanging services for compensation. As a result, the employees will put up with a lot more nonsense than any person whose livelihood is not directly dependent on keeping their boss happy.
HiroshiSan 10y ago
Geeze...as I finished reading this essay I thought to myself "wow that was great, I'm glad he could share that...I wonder what the comments have to add" and the answer is...absolutely nothing. You're all a bitter bunch.
- dang 10y ago
  Maybe look again? The comments in this thread are mixed. Some are dismissive or defensive in their own right but others (quite a few actually) have thoughtful responses and several people have posted their own similar/contrasting experiences.
  - HiroshiSan 10y ago
    I was being a bit ironic but you're right. I wonder what life circumstances make two different people read the same essay and come away with completely different feelings about it.
  - battlebot 10y ago
    Well the whole article came off as a humble brag, so there's that. He should just start collecting Porsches or flying airplanes or something. Jeez.
    - dang 10y ago
      Can't say I agree. I think the commenters taking that tack are maybe adding a filter or two of their own to what the author is saying and being reactive to the less interesting parts of the article. That leads to a somewhat boring, if also exciting, round-of-denunciation sort of thread. (Boring-plus-exciting is the alcohol-plus-amphetamines of internet forums.) They're also ignoring the ways the author is already piling on himself. I think that's a shallow reading and a bit harsh. The common trope in our culture is for the rest of us to become hostile when someone with money goes on about their problems ('what's he got to complain about?'). I get why, but it's an oversimplifying reflex that doesn't breed good discussion. Human lives are complex things. IMO the more interesting parts of the article have to do with tradeoffs and unintended consequences. Doing what it takes to achieve a goal, including a socially laudable/enviable goal, can leave you stuck and/or damaged in other ways. These dynamics are more interesting than just seeing someone as 'an asshole'.
sverige 10y ago
The part about leadership skills creating problems socially is spot on. Apparently I am a natural leader when in groups. (There is a natural "alpha" component to this skill; it's not all learned, but rather built upon at least some innate personality traits.) I acquired additional skills during years spent in management. This sometimes causes friction with others outside of work, and can be especially acute with family and close friends. Occasional friction at work is expected, but when you are the leader by title, persuasion, expertise, and (best) because of "referent power," there are lots of ways to resolve conflicts over direction while preserving relationships. These methods often fail in relationships where the power structures are entirely different and have different bases. When you spend most of your time in one environment, it can be difficult to recognize that your skills don't translate to the other (social) environment. In other words, if people sometimes think you're an asshole at work, the benefits of continuing the relationship often more easily outweigh the costs. The reverse is true in close personal relationships, where you're just an asshole. Then you either learn the different rules and accept that leadership is often much more subtle and soft, or you end up without friends and family. And yes, money can change you for the worse, especially if you did not grow up with it. I have friends whom I discovered years later are third generation wealthy (9 figures) but basically live an upper middle class existence, minus the financial stress. I have other friends who were raised middle class and made a ton of money. They tend to be those complaining about people asking how much they've made. It's the difference between living like Hyman Roth in the Godfather Part II, or living like Tony Montana in Scarface. If people are asking that, you're flashing too much. Either stop pimping your lifestyle, or stop worrying that people treat you like a pimp. Better yet, find a different class of people who also have money and won't ask. But the old money will still call you "noveau riche" for the remainder of your life.
capkutay 10y ago
> Listening is an art. Talking over someone because you’re an expert in an area and they are not is not okay. That's a nice observation. Trying to prove you're the smartest person in the room during a casual social setting has to be one of the most irritating traits I can think of. Anecdotal story: I was at a party and commented on a plane flying over us saying 'isn't it so cool something that big can fly?'. Someone drunkenly chimed in giving a 5 minute lecture on the physics of plane flight - an intentionally jargon-filled explanation at that. Everybody in the circle just walked away and 8 years later I still remember that as one of the most obnoxious things I've ever witnessed.
- jzl 10y ago
  You would probably enjoy this skit from the brilliant Mitchell and Webb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I
known 10y ago
with great power/money comes great responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Ben https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Ben
MrJagil 10y ago
I run a small record label, which i consider my startup despite not earning any money. Some notes: Truth #3 — the skills that make you a good leader DO NOT transfer to social settings For me it's the opposite. Learning how to network and interact honestly and with genuine care has completely reshaped my personality. I have such an easy time making friends these days and can, in a given, uncomfortable social interaction, easily distinguish between people being obnoxious and me being the one at fault (stepping over boundaries, being unreasonable, being superficial in my interaction). Ascribing "blame" properly saves you so much self-loathing and miscommunication. I have much greater control of my social life. Truth #4 — the same charismatic attitude that makes you a good leader also makes you an asshole Yes, and such is life. People will inevitably misunderstand you if they spend enough time focusing on you. There is an inherent imbalance in your relationship. My solution is to apologise when it comes up, and just always always greet people with respect (i hug) and leave them with respect (it was nice seeing you). Continual courtesy will override occasional mishaps, even the bad, drunken ones. Be honest about not being perfect, and show that you're trying. Truth #5 — life post-exit is not all happy times Very true. You really do need external confirmation in your life.
thasaleni 10y ago
"when you roll at someone's house in a Tesla" HAHAHAHAHA! I laughed at this
NumberCruncher 10y ago
It may be off topic, but this article remembers me of something I read in the The Art of Being Right by Arthur Schopenhauer. He sais that being rigth (in German: Recht haben) and being proven right (in German: Recht behalten) are two different things. Even if you are rigth you can be proven wrong in a debate if you don't know how to be proven right and you can't represent your standpoint. On the other side if you know how to be proven right you don't have to be right all the time. The OP seems to learned how to be proven right. This may even be a driver of his success. Unfortunately the most of us do not like to be proven wrong all the time and feel offended by people like the OP. Looking at the comments this seems to be true also for the HN folks.
ak39 10y ago
Ok. All good. So what do we do now? Allow me to humbly suggest these: 1. Help folks struggling to pay rent for a short while. Give them breathing room to get their lives on even keel. You have superhuman powers now. Use it. They'll be thankful. But don't expect anything back in return. 2. Start a soup kitchen in your local neighbourhood and get to know the folks. Each one of us is a Dostoyevski protagonist, swashbuckling hero waging war against our own crazy demons and wild fancy windmills. Ambition and its bitter outcomes are in all of us - not just "entrepreneurs". 3. "Soft adopt" a nephew/niece who is on the verge of falling into the deadly post teenage trap of feeling helpless, hopeless and depressed about their future. Some ideas: sponsor coding camps/programming classes, fund their college education or their sports interests. Encourage, encourage encourage. (Start with the worst off in the family. I am planning to adopt our 23-yo soon-to-be-full-drug-addict nephew unless someone intervenes. He's grown more despondent and depressed after dropping out of college. His troubled childhood and misery of coping with a broken family - parents are now effectively divorced has turned him into a lone outcast. I still remember holding him as a rugrat. I still believe we can cultivate a future he can be proud of.) 4. Lastly, simple thing: when folks invite you over for dinner or barbecues always insist on making the salad or dessert. Make it, don't buy it. I think in the end you have to decide how you feel about compassion. There are some folks who have an absolute and resolute belief that compassion is a weakness of character. I personally believe compassion makes every one of us Superman.
return0 10y ago
He does point out his 'problem' multiple times: too much aggressiveness in channels that are not made for that. This is not limited to millionaires though, you will find many driven people struggling to understand how people with lower drive can 'live like that'. I think some people are cut out to be in a specific role, entrepreneurship, position of power etc, and they feel miserable elsewhere. As for the money problem, you can avoid most of the problems by not mentioning your wealth to everyone and certainly by not showing it. Keep that for the closest of your bros, no further.
CodeWriter23 10y ago
Yep, narcissism is a bitch. Especially when it perpetuates denial that the common factor in one's issues is oneself.
probablyfiction 10y ago
> And I continually hurt those around me — just by being myself-and it’s beyond heartbreaking. If you're an asshole without money, you're going to be an asshole when you have money, too. Money doesn't change you; it reveals you. This is an interesting read, but the author spends way too much time defending his POV. He expects the people around him to just intuitively know what his skills are, but that isn't realistic. People can't know what you consider yourself to be good at unless you tell them.
jostylr 10y ago
I find the author's notion of being a leader to be a bit disturbing. A leader is someone whose authority is granted to them by those they are leading. A great leader is someone who may not even be thought of as a leader, but nevertheless directs and coordinates the actions and willing to take the flak for the team. The idea of a leader taking control of a 4 member band without consent is laughable. That is a dictator, not a leader. It strikes me as interesting that I do not see this called out more in the comments.
samnwa 10y ago
Sorry this guy is an a-hole, I guess?
erl 10y ago
"... but I’m not cut out to be a stay at home parent" As with leadership skills, I think that enjoying to be a stay at home parent also must be learnt. It might seem hard, or boring, or tedious to some. But I am convinced basically anyone can make an enjoyable experience of it if they actually make an effort. It will not come automatically, it will take some time and effort.

288 points by nreece 10y ago

Sounds like the author has personal problems they're mistakenly ascribing to their work. Many of their assertions are simply not true (It's possible to be confident without "being an asshole"; I know several such people), and it just comes across as written by an unreliable narrator (if I cared about this person's issues, I'd likely be asking the people who shunned him about what happened and see if the stories matched).

jmcgough 10y ago
> Sounds like the author has personal problems they're mistakenly ascribing to their work. I struggled socially in my early 20s and avoided dealing with it by drowning myself in work. Intentionally or not, it sounds like working nonstop meant he didn't have much time for personal development.
notahacker 10y ago
It sounds like the same article about the same person could have been written the other way round: how being a startup founder hyper-focused on the future helped smooth over social awkwardness, because most of his social interactions were with people with strong financial incentives to get along with him, and his mind was far too occupied with other priorities to feel insecure about the possibility others might envy his material wealth or judge his lifestyle choices.
SmellyGeekBoy 10y ago
I'm surprised I had to scroll more than halfway through the discussion to find this comment. I got the exact same impression reading the post. That said, it does look like the author possesses some level of self-awareness and is working on his issues.
bartread 10y ago
Hmm. I'm not so sure. It's very hard to know someone in a meaningful way based on something they've written, and especially such a short piece. I think the author is just trying to be honest but maybe it's come off somewhat awkwardly. Branding him an asshole based on such a limited perspective into his life is perhaps premature.

edblarney 10y ago

"I looked at her “like a little girl” when we were having a conversation." Almost all of the examples of 'having a hard time around other people' amount to their self perceptions not necessarily the authors actions. It's impossible to 'look at someone like a little girl'. It's mostly likely that these people either feel insecure, or, they project certain qualities upon the author. I have a very 'straight face' and because of lack of emotional response, people have asked 'why am I angry at them?' when I had not even a whiff of such emotion. I was literally deeply contemplating what they were saying! Now - it there may be other tons of behavioural signals - and it's possible the author was treating someone as a little girl, i.e. not paying attention, being dismissive, condescending without knowing it - which would then give a different characteristic to that persons opinion. And it's easy for someone to create feelings when a successful person 'pulls up in a Tesla'. Any hint at bragging/humble-bragging in any way might be taken the wrong way. But it's a good article, at least it's good to have some self-reflection/self-awareness.

aerovistae 10y ago
> It's impossible to 'look at someone like a little girl'. It's mostly likely that these people either feel insecure, or, they project certain qualities upon the author. It's definitely possible to have a look in your eyes and facial expression and body language that clearly says "I'm not taking you seriously right now."
hkmurakami 10y ago
>I have a very 'straight face' and because of lack of emotional response, people have asked 'why am I angry at them?' when I had not even a whiff of such emotion. I was literally deeply contemplating what they were saying! Well I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one with this problem.
- CharlesW 10y ago
  Friend, many of us carry this burden. Here's the technical term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resting_bitch_face https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resting_bitch_face
10y ago

st3v3r 10y ago

This kind of thing is why anyone who says the answer to all unemployment is "make a startup" shouldn't be taken seriously. Hell, the first thing they say is that they basically cut everyone but a couple people out of their life. Most people are not prepared to do that, and quite frankly, they shouldn't in order to put food on the table.

GoRudy 10y ago

I also sold my startup. same story as far as revenue, exit etc. I'm not sure that selling your company was the reason for your social issues. I've had the best year of my life post acquisition - spending more time with family, friends and thinking what's next. constantly thinking about what's next, it's actually annoying that I can't turn it off. The "how much did you make" question is super annoying and it happens but generally those around me are respctful and understand that I still plan to work and in many ways will need to. Not enough to do nothing, enough to choose something meaningful and not waste our precious time. My only advice to you is don't be afraid to reconnect with some old friends and embrace new ones, especially friends of friend who don't know much about your exit and ask to hang out with you because of who you are when they interact with you sans knowing your financial history.

thrownfaraway12 10y ago
I also, also sold my startup last year and am sitting on a nice pile of FU money. The pace I'd wound myself up to over the past 10 years of building culminated with a truly awful 2016 where I did little else but road-show, due-diligence, and try to hit targets required to close. I haven't spoken to some friends in years, and I'm having trouble connecting with current friends & other parents in my community who are mostly "professionals" with 9-to-5s. So I can identify w/the article, but my experience more closely mirrors GoRudy's - since we sold, and I started recovering from the chaos life has been great. The two things outside of family that brought me back into balance: 1) Going to entrepreneur meet-ups and HELPING! I love diving in and helping other people on the path, making connections that are hard to find, etc. I would never have made it without people helping me, I use them as a model for helping entrepreneurs now. 2) Charity. Not "go to a donor party / write a big check" charity but meaningful, directed contributions are an amazing thing for the soul. May we all have such high quality problems!
- inspector-g 10y ago
  Do you know of a good way to search/find such entrepreneur meet-ups? I find myself craving this sort of interaction more and more as time goes on.

pcunite 10y ago

Material things do not make people happy, at all. This! This is the found God moment everyone needs to come to. We will all die. You had better get your eternity in order. Answer that call within, and go find the true "why" that is eating at you on the inside. Read Acts 2:38.

wickawic 10y ago
It is worth noting that you can also find fulfillment in intangible things that are not religiously oriented. Teaching/taking courses, artistic endeavors, and volunteering come to mind.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  Agreed. Once you have the basics fulfilled and don't have to worry about your day to day material needs, the excess capital can be utilized towards experiences rather than possessions (of course there will always be objects that give us great emotional joy).
- espeed 10y ago
  "Repent" properly translated means metanoia, the journey of changing one's mind, heart, self or way of life. It's the journey that converges towards love and truth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanoia_(theology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanoia_(theology)
  - phaed 10y ago
    That is quite contrived, off with you!
    - espeed 10y ago
      In what way? Maybe you're missing the context from the now-flagged top-level comment.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

skookumchuck 10y ago

> But the rest of the world doesn’t give a fuck about you or your experience. That's true whether or not your are successful. In any case, the only people who are genuinely happy about your success are your parents.

smaili 10y ago

Unfortunately, I no longer have very many friends. I worked so hard in my 20s and early 30s that I let my closest relationships lapse in the name of making money. It’s tough to keep friends around when you’re either working, or work is on your mind 24/7. One of the unfortunate side effects of hustle/grit/what have you, that I myself experienced and can relate to the author.

AznHisoka 10y ago
On the other hand, most friendships die out when people reach their late 20s (career, moving elsewhere, kids, marriage) so it might have been inevitable even if you didnt do a startup.
hackits 10y ago
ammmm, if your friendship requires constant hand holding then I would say it would better to lose them faster (early on) because they're not going to be around when you hit the hard times. My definition of a friend is someone you can rely on when things goes to shit eg... Being half way across the country and you've just been robbed and they drive 20 hours to pick you up. Now if they cannot even meet you half way across town because you have a deadline then I will say you don't have a friend.
- alpha_squared 10y ago
  > My definition of a friend is someone you can rely on when things goes to shit eg... Being half way across the country and you've just been robbed and they drive 20 hours to pick you up. Yes, that's one possible quality in a friend. Another is making time for _their_ shit as well and it doesn't sound like the author did very much of that. It's also nice to make time for friends without having to deal with either yours or their dilemmas and just enjoy each other's company.
  - hackits 10y ago
    Agree, _their_ shit may not be important to you but it's important to them that's where within reason you step in to help out where you can. Vanishing at the first sign of problem tells it wasn't really friendship but more college or associate.

econner 10y ago

Is it possible that his experience is not representative? Edit: Digging a bit further, it looks like the startup that he sold was Valet Gourmet which was a food delivery business in North Carolina and he worked on it for ~12 years. That's probably a bit longer than the tech startup timelines we tend to think of here.

tluyben2 10y ago
>That's probably a bit longer than the tech startup timelines we tend to think of here. That is something I learnt from my startups, running and selling them; things will take far longer and people quit way too soon. If you start a business, any business, thinking you will make fuck you money in 15 years is much more relaxed and better chances of success in my experience. Plenty of side projects I made over 10 years ago are still popular running on crappy tech and companies I co founded 20 years ago still exist and make profits. People think a lot changes but it doesn't; it changes on HN and Reddit but not the rest of the world even though the big changes like mobile happened; with a sprinkle of responsive over ancient html/css suddenly people use it again like it just launched. Edit; in no way I want to imply to live on ramen for 15 years; live a good life all that time, but, at least in your mind, think the riches/exit will happen in a long time from now. It makes it all less bank or bust stress.

gydfi 10y ago

> Material things do not make people happy, at all. Everybody says this, all the time. I would like to propose the controversial theory that actually material things do make people happy, at least within certain constraints. When I was younger I had shitty cheap material things which made me unhappy. Now I have better stuff which makes me happier. I used to have a shitty unairconditioned apartment. That made me unhappy. Now I have an apartment whose temperature isn't a problem. I used to have cheap furniture, which was uncomfortable, and that made me unhappy. Now I have better furniture which is comfortable, I am happier. I used to have a cheap unreliable car, which broke down and made me unhappy. Now I have a reliable, comfortable car I have no reason to be unhappy. If you're a baseline-unhappy person (as I suspect the author is) then material goods are unlikely to improve your unhappiness. But I'm a baseline fairly happy person, I don't get unhappy unless there's a specific reason, like discomfort or inconvenience. Sensible acquisition of material goods can remove discomfort and inconvenience, thus making you happy.

hkmurakami 10y ago
I think OP's line is hyperbole, and that you're both getting at the same thing in the end. Once you do remove your sources of baseline discomfort, material upgrades above that level don't move the needle much anymore.
- gydfi 10y ago
  I'm not convinced the baseline is that low, I think most middle class people still have discomfort or inconvenience which could be removed. For instance I now sit in a comfy chair at home, but when I fly somewhere I'm stuck being uncomfortable in economy. And then there's the big one: I have to go to work, every day, whether I feel like it or not. Inconvenient!
bigbetsbigmoney 10y ago
the point you're making is exactly the reason for the cliche of 'money wont buy you happiness". it is the thought that buying these things (that give us momentary happiness) will equate to long term happiness. in 20,30,40 years, how airconditioned your apartment was (or wasn't) will have little bearing on your overall level of happiness at that point. also, your last few sentences contradict what you wrote earlier. you said you don't get unhappy unless theres a specific reason, right after you gave 3 examples of you being unhappy without a real reason.

paulsutter 10y ago

The brutally honest truth about this guy is that he's an insecure prick who loves boasting > Only 0.4% of all businesses make it to $10M in annual revenue. We made it almost halfway through...When I sold my startup, we had 100 people working with us. > Unfortunately, I no longer have very many friends... > ...Tesla...$300 pairs of jeans, $450 pairs of boots, concrete countertops...trips to New Zealand no longer bother me. That’s great and all, however ...you come across as a tone deaf asshole.

alpha_squared 10y ago
I understand how it can come out that way, but I didn't read it that way. He's genuinely trying to straddle the fine line between being honest about recognizing where he is and how he's perceived while simultaneously acknowledging his accomplishments. It's not easy to walk that line. I see the author coming from a humbled, almost despairing perspective. That _despite_ his accomplishments, which he lists for emphasis, he's not happy.
- slackstation 10y ago
  It isn't that he isn't trying. It's that it's clear that despite trying, he still isn't seeing it. He talks about being a "pretty good" listener but, not catching the fact that people he respects and admires feel like he's constantly talking down to them. It's an easy trap to fall into and I imagine a hard one to get out of (not because I'm not an asshole but, because I'm not rich enough to say that I'm in his position). He just clearly doesn't understand himself. Startup culture looks at this thing called exiting as the very hard thing that very few people do sucessfully and then we look at the few that do it as some kind of oracle. We want answers to hard questions and automatically think that people that achieved success have found it. Maybe he isn't this business savant and maverick. Maybe he just got lucky and the momentum of that took him over the line into success. I'm not saying it was easy but, maybe his success isn't because of the things he thinks it is.
  - hkmurakami 10y ago
    He's far from the only person who's had to struggle through this. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he sincerely does not want to be seen as a rich asshole. His wealth is still very new to him and there's an adjustment process. Both individuals and entire nations go through this adjustment process of newfound wealth. It gets to your head and it takes some time to work it out of your system, counting your mistakes each time you "slip up" and show your materialistic, vain side again and again. But if his desire to be a decent guy who happened to work hard and made it, then he'll figure things out for himself.

ithought 10y ago

All these things he listed (losing touch with friends, ruining business opportunities, treating people poorly, appearing 'higher class') happen to almost everyone at some point in life but without being rich.

feistypharit 10y ago
Ya, it seems his real issue is he spent his 20s and 30s with the goal of getting money and now that he has it winners what's next. I believe the term is midlife crisis. I do find it sad that he,like so many other people just write off how hard and important it is to raise kids. "I'm not a stay at home parent". I've heard it from doctors, CEOs, and others. As a society we really need to stop outsourcing the raising of our children.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- espeed 10y ago
  I believe the term is midlife crisis. Yes, identity crisis. If your identity for the last 10 years has been too tied to your role at work, it can leave you in a state of crisis (identity diffusion) when it's gone [1]. In a founder's mind, your identity/self-image can become almost indistinguishable from your company, unless it was solid to begin with. And when your identity has been bound too tightly to an external thing -- and the external thing is gone -- it uncorks a big gaping void of unresolved issues that's been masked all those years. You've likely been acting in accordance with your projected identity -- your persona, your artificial/false-self, your source of pride -- and now that it's gone, your underdeveloped ego (your true self) is left in a state of crisis, caught in a whirlwind between your base impulses (your id) and who you think you should be (your super-ego) [2]. When you recognize what's going on inside and reconcile the two, the turmoil will subside and your reasoned, authentic self will emerge. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_crisis [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego
  - 10y ago

ithought 10y ago

espeed 10y ago

Brutal truth -- sounds like arrogance.

aorloff 10y ago

This is what happens when a string player makes it. You want to see some folks having fun or making music after an exit, talk to the horns or rhythm section.

yakshaving_jgt 10y ago
I don't understand this metaphor but I like it anyway.

danschumann 10y ago

Gee, he doesn't come off as a hard heart, talking over people, 100% too confident, know-it-all, or do-as-I-say-- until you actually start reading the article. Expert on what not to do I guess, but I can't follow.

d--b 10y ago

And now he can write another one, about how much crap he got from people when he took his story to medium.

jacquesm 10y ago

I don't see the correlation between 'being an asshole' and 'sold my start-up'. There are plenty of successful entrepreneurs that are perfectly capable of relating to others and treating their fellow men, friends and family with dignity and respect. Some people succeed because they're playing nice with others, some succeed in spite of not being able to do so, some even succeed because they are are assholes. There is no correlation here and you probably won't be able to extract many lessons from this piece, no one talks about it because it isn't a particularly common experience. Wealth does not typically turn assholes in to non-assholes.

Gustomaximus 10y ago
I read this article in the same way. Some kind of narcissistic personality that doesn't want to account for they are simply an arsehole and needs excuses. Sound like when they were CEO of ~100 employees they could get away with people accepting this behavior and feel accepted but now they lost 'im in control of your career' the reality check is here and they are looking for excuses.
searchfaster 10y ago
Exactly... I had the opportunity to meet an almost Billion dollar company founder. I went in feeling awkward but he was very nice, treated me with dignity and respect and never once did I feel uncomfortable. Within minutes, I felt like I was conversing with any one of my other colleagues or friends.
- yourapostasy 10y ago
  This is a learned skill anyone can refine, even before picking up their FU money, at virtually any income level. Even if you are a uni student; perhaps especially if you are a uni student. Nearly anywhere you go in the world, there will be people living in destitution on the streets. While a good proportion in the US have mental and substance abuse issues, an astounding number are starved for simple, decent, human companionship. Just someone, anyone, who treats them as another decent human being. Instead of a "drive-by", "dialing-it-in" donation where you hand them some goods and/or money, receive a "thank you", and that is the extent of the interaction (though they do appreciate that as well). Sit down with them. Offer to buy them a meal at a nearby diner and say you want someone to chat with. Ask them how their day has been. Be a conversationalist to listen to their stories; and boy, do some of them ever have stories. Imagine you two are sitting next to each other on the same bus, and have an hour until you reach your destination.

Indolat 10y ago

> When you roll up to someone’s house in a Tesla, how can they help but assume that you’re just a judgmental asshole? Am I the only one who feels that those guys were judgmental assholes rather than the author?

joemi 10y ago
Based solely on that sentence, no, you're not the the only one. But based on the entire piece, I don't think he paints a very good picture of himself.
- Indolat 10y ago
  He didn't write about doing something really bad, did he?

danilocesar 10y ago

Ignoring a bit all that I'm-a-successful-Ceo, when most of the "people that mean the most to you" are saying that you are an asshole, take the advise: probably you're. Money doesn't necessary play a hole here. My bet is that you were an asshole before being a milionare. Check with those 'old friends that understand you'.

epx 10y ago

Sounded like those humor shows where the Rich Cousin said to the poor cousin he had soooooo many problems in his life, like having to buy all Christmas dinner ingredients from France ...

epx 10y ago

Sounded like those humor shows where the Rich Cousin said to the poor cousin he had soooooo many problems in his life, like having to buy all Christmas dinner ingredients from France ...

tardo99 10y ago

Buying a Tesla is embarrassing. My net worth is definitely higher than this dude's, and I don't have a Tesla.

madengr 10y ago
I can buy 10 lightly used Nissan Leafs for the price of a Tesla.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
Embarrassing how? Embarrassing to who?

eric_b 10y ago

I'm not sure I love the article, but I agree with the author's sentiment. I'm 4 years in to a successful bootstrapped startup, and I've lost many close acquaintances. I simply don't have time to keep the social connections alive and I have not prioritized them. I'm somewhat introverted by nature so this is not really a major concern of mine at this time, but I suspect it may be a regret later. What is challenging for me is the fact that most people cannot relate to my life. They can't understand why you'd work 60+ hours a week on a fledgling business. They can't understand the obsession and inability to "turn it off." They don't understand what it takes to get a customer to actually pay you, let alone build something people enjoy using and solves problems. I do find that many folks assume you just "lucked" your way in to success. And I think bootstrapped business owners have it the worst of all. It's comparably easy to spend VC cash once you get funding, rather than money from "your own pocket." It's not hard to justify hiring 5 people when the VCs explicitly tell you that's what the money is for. Bootstrapping a successful business is indeed a rare feat, and only the people who've been there can understand exactly how all consuming and difficult it is. (At least, that's been my experience so far)

luckydude 10y ago
The "lucked into" thing resonates with me. I've done pretty well and have had a zillion people tell me I got lucky. I used to really resent that. I bootstrapped my company, I took no salary for the first 2-3 years, instead I was out consulting to bring in money so I could pay the people who worked for me. That didn't seem like luck to me. I built technology that most of you use daily, before I came along people thought the answer to their SCM problems was Subversion. I had to fight like crazy to get smart people like Linus to understand that I had a better answer. It was tons and tons of work. Getting people to see the value of what I had built didn't seem like luck to me. I built a viable business and did all the sales. I used a portable phone with a base station that had an extra battery and it was routine that I would have to flip over to speaker phone, swap batteries, and continue the sales calls. 16 hour days were the norm on the phone. My view was that it wasn't luck, it was hard work. A lot of hard work. My view evolved. Yep, I did a ton of work, many many 80 hour weeks. Any founder knows what that is like. But there was an element of luck involved - I was at the right place, at the right time, with the right answers. Multiple times in my career that has happened. Is all the credit due to me? Not really, the luck part is being in a place where your work will go somewhere. You have to do all that hard work and you have to get lucky, hard work is not enough. And that is why I log in as luckydude.

scarface74 10y ago

I am in my 40s and I work with a young married guy in his mid 20s who i would consider a level 1 software engineer on a scale of 1 to 5. He is a dreamer thinking he can strike it rich with his great startup idea working on it part time because he hears stories of all the people who sold their startups and thinks that's such a glamorous life. First I told him about survivorship bias and laid out basically the same statistics as in the article. Then I showed him that he could double his income in 3-5 years just by learning the craft of software engineering - risk free -- and still have plenty of time to enjoy his new marriage and enjoy his hobbies. If his own company was struggling, he would be up late worrying about it. If the company he is working for is struggling and he keeps his skills up, he could easily get another job in our metro area. It's been that way for me for over 20 years. I enjoy being a corporate drone, I go to work every day and leave the job at work -- and I'm a technical lead -- imagine how easy it is if you are "just" a senior developer? If you are a two income family in a good job market with one income as the average senior software engineer, you are guaranteed to be well within the top 10% of earners and be able to live a pretty good life.

ladytron 10y ago
Founders don't start companies to live a "pretty good life in the top 10%". We do it because we are ambitious, want to solve huge technical and business problems, make our mark, and change the world. We usually have more energy and sleep less than others. We love work. We love our business. Most of us would not want to be corporate "drones". It would be like a living death.
- ben_jones 10y ago
  I fear most entrepreneurs really do care about leaving a mark. Any mark. Ad tech companies? Big data (selling) companies? Marketing (convince the consumer to buy something excessive) companies? LinkedIn and other companies that intentionally force dark patterns on their users? Security companies selling spyware and hacking tools to anyone who'll pay? The world could do with fewer of those marks IMO.
  - 10y ago

jonmc12 10y ago

Buckminster Fuller, considering ego-suicide: "I see the hydrogen atom doesn't have to earn a living before behaving like a hydrogen atom. In fact, as best I can see, only human beings operate on the basis of 'having to earn a living'. The concept is one introduced into social conventions, only by the temporal power structure's dictum of the ages. If I am doing what God's evolutionary strategy needs to have accomplished, I need spend no further time worrying about such matters."

AznHisoka 10y ago
isnt our evolutionary destiny just to reproduce as much as possible?
- xyzzy4 10y ago
  Or maybe it's to produce as much CO2 as possible.
  - thehardsphere 10y ago
    The correct answer is maximize the entropy of the universe, so both of those options work.

jondubois 10y ago

I have the same problems as the author but I also have to worry about money because none of the risks I took have paid off. The only thing I look forward to is the next economic crisis; then maybe I'll be able to build something out of the rubble of other people's failures. Economic stability is painful for me.

bigtunacan 10y ago

The whole article comes across as very defensive... here's all these examples of people seeing me as an asshole, but really I'm a nice guy. I try to relate, but it's not my fault I don't understand all of these people that are beneath me while I'm kicking it in my crib with my stone counter tops and $300 jeans. Oh I really love my wife and kid, but... I'm just so unfulfilled. Brutal truth to the author after having read the article is that he probably does qualify as being an asshole. As a slight counterpoint to that though, despite what everyone says it is okay to be an asshole up to a certain point. It is better to just own up to it though than to deny it. This is advice from a self admitted asshole.

nebabyte 10y ago
> Brutal truth to the author after having read the article is that he Should probably figure out his own issues before giving advice to other people about how their experiences "will go". (I'm sure some people can relate to the piece, but relating and getting good advice are two different things - if you're looking for the latter, ask someone who at minimum has a good grasp of where their problems truly stemmed from [likely because they're now seeing them after having solved them])
- bobbles 10y ago
  >When you roll up to someone’s house in a Tesla, how can they help but assume that you’re just a judgemental asshole? This guy is projecting so hard he could be a movie theatre
  - hoodoof 10y ago
    >> When you roll up to someone’s house in a Tesla, So why turn up to someones house in a Tesla if you feel that makes you into a jerkey showoff? Get an ordinary car.
mehwoot 10y ago
Yes, he probably is an asshole. But at least he's self reflecting and attempting to modify his behaviour. That's a good first step. And I continually hurt those around me — just by being myself-and it’s beyond heartbreaking. Somewhere along the way, money truly changed me for the worst. Most assholes don't have that level of reflection so I'm not going to be too harsh

michalu 10y ago

His problems have nothing to do with the money... not sure why he correlates that. Sounds like he simply sucks at interpersonal skills ... E.g. "I feel like my opinion doesn't matter around him because I haven't made $1 mil" we'll if that's how you make people feel it's your fault... if they're simply insecure whiners it's your fault for keeping them in your life... Same thing with friends... Another area to improve would be a sense of style (no person with style buys $300 jeans, they're basically a product targeted at insecure nouveau riche... just shop at H&M) ... I guess the only reason this article is popular is that it comforts people who haven't made a million dollars that his life sucks too regardless...

thehardsphere 10y ago
He correlates the money to his problems as a ego defense mechanism. By blaming something external, he doesn't have to face that he is an "asshole," to use his own word. It's the difference between "money made me an asshole" and "I am an asshole and always was one." The first one is much easier to live with than the second one. Same with "my money made all of my friends insecure whiners" vs. "I filled my life with insecure whiners."
paulcole 10y ago
>no person with style buys $300 jeans There's definitely some very nice made in USA or Japan, raw denim at or above that price. They're definitely not household name brands though.
tetrazine 10y ago
> no person with style buys $300 jeans, they're basically a product targeted at insecure nouveau riche... just shop at H&M) Hi, I understand what you are trying to say here, but please consider investigating the world of apparel a little more deeply before making comments like this. H&M and similar fast-fashion companies are deeply involved in practices like blatant, continued design piracy from both famous and small, independent designers; as well as unsafe and exploitative labour practices, including in third-world countries. In addition, the clothes these stores produce are not very high quality and tend to degrade quickly, making them only useful for staying up-to-date with trends pioneered by the designers fast fashion brands mimic. Ethically designed and manufactured clothing that is of good value (ie lasts long) costs money to produce. $300 for a pair of jeans is very high, yes, but H&M is not the alternative I would recommend. I would also say that many people "with style" can easily and in fact viscerally tell the difference between a pair of H&M jeans and a higher-quality pair, and would not balk at paying that price for a piece of clothing, especially for a wardrobe staple like jeans. It is not a "nouveau riche" affectation as much as an appreciation for artistic vision, design, and craftsmanship. Of course personal income is a factor here and I'm not suggesting everyone should be paying that much for all the clothing they own. If you're interested in learning more about these topics, I recommend reading publications like WWD, The Business of Fashion, or The Fashion Law (though I am not vouching for their reporting and editorial stances in all cases). Consumer awareness of the nature of fast fashion is the only way I see for the fashion industry to move forward from these issues.

madengr 10y ago

Oh please. Enough with the changing the world BS.

dang 10y ago
You can't be uncivil like this on Hacker News regardless of how much you disagree with someone. Please don't do it again. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13665623 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13665623 and marked it off-topic.

oregontechninja 10y ago

This just feels like another click-bait article, from title to purely opinion based article.

nanis 10y ago

So, you're such a good leader and all and you hire to your weaknesses, but you could not figure out you needed to have someone proofread your post. Got it.

austincheney 10y ago

You don't have to have a multi-million dollar exit to go through this. You just have to find yourself in a position where you had some amazing responsibility and direction and now you don't in a way that mere mortals cannot relate. There are numerous different ways to get there. My story: For just about ever I have been a developer in the civilian world and an Army reservist. Normally the Army reserves thing is just a part time weekend gig doing some really boring administrative work, but sometimes its more. The first time I was in management I was 24 years old. I hadn't finished my bachelor's degree yet. I was working as the tech lead of network operations in a group called TNOSC. This network, though, covered all of US and coalition forces in Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan except for airport control systems. This was in 2004 during the post-invasion surge into Iraq. I am not sure how many dedicated users I had (maybe 100,000) but there around 300,000 people who were impacted by my network between coalition military forces and supporting civilians. For perspective 300,000 is bigger than Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple combined. In that management position I published the organization's taskorg (a diagram of who owns who plus the structure of our clients). We had two dedicated brigades to manage and my higher authority was CENTCOM with a dotted line to DISA. My clients were two 3-stars and a 4-star. Running that organization was somewhat like running a start-up in reverse. We already had business and dedicate clients to support, but just jumping you are actually figure out the necessary relationships and how to do the technical aspects of your job. Life doesn't wait for you to catch up. You just have to figure everything out immediately. In the real world I am software developer. I am not in management. I don't even bring up the prior military story. People simply cannot relate. They know the corporate world they are isolated into. In the civilian world you don't get magically dropped into that kind of position out of the blue. Furthermore, people outside the military are more fragile. In the civilian world one of the most important interpersonal qualities is kindness while in the military kindness isn't valued. In the military kindness is like hard work. In most jobs nobody is rewarded for hard work. They are reward for what they accomplish. Hard work is silently implied. In the military what's important is honesty, respect (above and below), and bluntness. I find in the corporate world I am constantly tempering my words and using my "inside voice" so that I don't come off as offensive. It is so easy to come off as an arrogant dick. People who have known me for a while or been through similar environments get it, but for everybody else its too easy to look like an asshole. This is even more true in that I work as a web (JavaScript) developer. The most frequent kind of developer in the web are people who don't want to be there, have absolutely no regard for the technologies, and wish they were doing something else. The other extreme are immature childish developers who work in the web because it has a lower barrier to entry in the contributor roles require a large dose of abstractions and dependencies for every aspect of their job. Both of these groups are different shades of imposters who constantly live in fear that they will be discovered. Pro tip - Everybody knows who the imposters are. I sure as hell cannot relate my military experiences to these groups who hanging to their one and only career by their nails.

juskrey 10y ago

Let's be brutally honest - most of the successful businesses are about selling harmful (mostly in the long run - people should be myopic, not entirely dumb) bullshit. And you have to possess certain qualities to succeed in that, which BTW work the best when you are not seeing part 1 as something bad at all. This WILL make your social life a kind of hell - and you deserve it. People are not dumb customers, though not always able to articulate that (ie from shame, halo effect etc)

blueyes 10y ago

I can't tell if this guy is a jerk or just pretending to be a jerk. But the tone is pitch perfect. Even the title is pure jerky clickbait. Here's a dude who talks about visioning as his main skill, is surprised when small groups of people don't want him to micromanage them, and falls deeper into solitude when he cannot discuss the problems of $400 boots with normal people. My heart bleeds. He should be transmuted into a parody for the HBO show. The really weird, deeper issue is that even when a totally un-self-aware human being like the author, or like the author is pretending to be, realizes they are totally un-self-aware, they still talk about it in an un-self-aware way where the reader is like STFU who cares... Lord protect us from what we want, and from who we are.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
espeed 10y ago
It's called "covert narcissism". Whereas overt narcissists openly admit it and are proud of it -- to the point where the most effective method of determining if someone is an overt narcissist is to ask them directly, "are you a narcissist?" [1] -- a covert narcissist is in outward denial -- it's the humble brag, deflecting, blaming, playing the victim. Both are a form of mental blindness that prevent you seeing things as they truly are -- as are fear and __envy__ [2]. The first paragraph is telling (it's all there): The low-confidence cynic in me wants to tell you that a seven figure exit isn’t really that much. I have friends who have had eight figure exits, and I’m met multiple people who have had 10 figure exits. This is my experience as a guy who started a business with $10k in personal credit card debt and $200 in the bank, and accidentally ended up a millionaire. Envy is a sneaky devil, buried deep inside -- hard to see in yourself, hard to identify (maybe even moreso when you have money) -- but it's often at the root of anxiety and low self-esteem. And when envy and pride play tug-of-war, they wreak havoc. Snapping out of it requires humility -- true self-reflection, deep introspection -- and the courage to acknowledge and take responsibility for your actions. Perspective is key, but it's the thing they lack. [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140805150645.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140805150645.h... [2] https://outre-monde.com/2014/08/21/the-psychology-and-philosophy-of-envy/ https://outre-monde.com/2014/08/21/the-psychology-and-philos...

hoodoof 10y ago

I think if I got rich then I'd think very carefully about whether or not I wanted anyone else to know.

battlebot 10y ago
Yeah, well, here's the thing about that: If you don't explain your lifestyle to some people most just assume you're a broke bum, which is very annoying after awhile. I'm actually going to find some job to do because I can't stand sitting at home and I don't have quite enough money to be fully retired at 43 but it's like --->.<--- that close.

hoodoof 10y ago

It seems to me that money isn't the issue here. The issue is that this guy is a jerk, that's all. Sounds like he has taken becoming rich as a license to set his inner jerk free.

clavalle 10y ago
Yup. I've seen really nice people become incredibly wealthy and stay incredibly (maybe a little too) kind and I've seen petty people get a little more cash than their neighbors and become intolerable condescending assholes. It's about the person, not the money.

thehardsphere 10y ago

>The friends that I’ve maintained all along (and many of them are former employees) understand me. The equation of "employees" with "friends" here is a red flag for narcissism. It's possible to have friendly relationships with employees but that relationship is still primarily about exchanging services for compensation. As a result, the employees will put up with a lot more nonsense than any person whose livelihood is not directly dependent on keeping their boss happy.

HiroshiSan 10y ago

Geeze...as I finished reading this essay I thought to myself "wow that was great, I'm glad he could share that...I wonder what the comments have to add" and the answer is...absolutely nothing. You're all a bitter bunch.

dang 10y ago
Maybe look again? The comments in this thread are mixed. Some are dismissive or defensive in their own right but others (quite a few actually) have thoughtful responses and several people have posted their own similar/contrasting experiences.
- HiroshiSan 10y ago
  I was being a bit ironic but you're right. I wonder what life circumstances make two different people read the same essay and come away with completely different feelings about it.
- battlebot 10y ago
  Well the whole article came off as a humble brag, so there's that. He should just start collecting Porsches or flying airplanes or something. Jeez.
  - dang 10y ago
    Can't say I agree. I think the commenters taking that tack are maybe adding a filter or two of their own to what the author is saying and being reactive to the less interesting parts of the article. That leads to a somewhat boring, if also exciting, round-of-denunciation sort of thread. (Boring-plus-exciting is the alcohol-plus-amphetamines of internet forums.) They're also ignoring the ways the author is already piling on himself. I think that's a shallow reading and a bit harsh. The common trope in our culture is for the rest of us to become hostile when someone with money goes on about their problems ('what's he got to complain about?'). I get why, but it's an oversimplifying reflex that doesn't breed good discussion. Human lives are complex things. IMO the more interesting parts of the article have to do with tradeoffs and unintended consequences. Doing what it takes to achieve a goal, including a socially laudable/enviable goal, can leave you stuck and/or damaged in other ways. These dynamics are more interesting than just seeing someone as 'an asshole'.

sverige 10y ago

The part about leadership skills creating problems socially is spot on. Apparently I am a natural leader when in groups. (There is a natural "alpha" component to this skill; it's not all learned, but rather built upon at least some innate personality traits.) I acquired additional skills during years spent in management. This sometimes causes friction with others outside of work, and can be especially acute with family and close friends. Occasional friction at work is expected, but when you are the leader by title, persuasion, expertise, and (best) because of "referent power," there are lots of ways to resolve conflicts over direction while preserving relationships. These methods often fail in relationships where the power structures are entirely different and have different bases. When you spend most of your time in one environment, it can be difficult to recognize that your skills don't translate to the other (social) environment. In other words, if people sometimes think you're an asshole at work, the benefits of continuing the relationship often more easily outweigh the costs. The reverse is true in close personal relationships, where you're just an asshole. Then you either learn the different rules and accept that leadership is often much more subtle and soft, or you end up without friends and family. And yes, money can change you for the worse, especially if you did not grow up with it. I have friends whom I discovered years later are third generation wealthy (9 figures) but basically live an upper middle class existence, minus the financial stress. I have other friends who were raised middle class and made a ton of money. They tend to be those complaining about people asking how much they've made. It's the difference between living like Hyman Roth in the Godfather Part II, or living like Tony Montana in Scarface. If people are asking that, you're flashing too much. Either stop pimping your lifestyle, or stop worrying that people treat you like a pimp. Better yet, find a different class of people who also have money and won't ask. But the old money will still call you "noveau riche" for the remainder of your life.

capkutay 10y ago

> Listening is an art. Talking over someone because you’re an expert in an area and they are not is not okay. That's a nice observation. Trying to prove you're the smartest person in the room during a casual social setting has to be one of the most irritating traits I can think of. Anecdotal story: I was at a party and commented on a plane flying over us saying 'isn't it so cool something that big can fly?'. Someone drunkenly chimed in giving a 5 minute lecture on the physics of plane flight - an intentionally jargon-filled explanation at that. Everybody in the circle just walked away and 8 years later I still remember that as one of the most obnoxious things I've ever witnessed.

jzl 10y ago
You would probably enjoy this skit from the brilliant Mitchell and Webb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I

known 10y ago

with great power/money comes great responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Ben https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Ben

MrJagil 10y ago

I run a small record label, which i consider my startup despite not earning any money. Some notes: Truth #3 — the skills that make you a good leader DO NOT transfer to social settings For me it's the opposite. Learning how to network and interact honestly and with genuine care has completely reshaped my personality. I have such an easy time making friends these days and can, in a given, uncomfortable social interaction, easily distinguish between people being obnoxious and me being the one at fault (stepping over boundaries, being unreasonable, being superficial in my interaction). Ascribing "blame" properly saves you so much self-loathing and miscommunication. I have much greater control of my social life. Truth #4 — the same charismatic attitude that makes you a good leader also makes you an asshole Yes, and such is life. People will inevitably misunderstand you if they spend enough time focusing on you. There is an inherent imbalance in your relationship. My solution is to apologise when it comes up, and just always always greet people with respect (i hug) and leave them with respect (it was nice seeing you). Continual courtesy will override occasional mishaps, even the bad, drunken ones. Be honest about not being perfect, and show that you're trying. Truth #5 — life post-exit is not all happy times Very true. You really do need external confirmation in your life.

thasaleni 10y ago

"when you roll at someone's house in a Tesla" HAHAHAHAHA! I laughed at this

NumberCruncher 10y ago

It may be off topic, but this article remembers me of something I read in the The Art of Being Right by Arthur Schopenhauer. He sais that being rigth (in German: Recht haben) and being proven right (in German: Recht behalten) are two different things. Even if you are rigth you can be proven wrong in a debate if you don't know how to be proven right and you can't represent your standpoint. On the other side if you know how to be proven right you don't have to be right all the time. The OP seems to learned how to be proven right. This may even be a driver of his success. Unfortunately the most of us do not like to be proven wrong all the time and feel offended by people like the OP. Looking at the comments this seems to be true also for the HN folks.

ak39 10y ago

Ok. All good. So what do we do now? Allow me to humbly suggest these: 1. Help folks struggling to pay rent for a short while. Give them breathing room to get their lives on even keel. You have superhuman powers now. Use it. They'll be thankful. But don't expect anything back in return. 2. Start a soup kitchen in your local neighbourhood and get to know the folks. Each one of us is a Dostoyevski protagonist, swashbuckling hero waging war against our own crazy demons and wild fancy windmills. Ambition and its bitter outcomes are in all of us - not just "entrepreneurs". 3. "Soft adopt" a nephew/niece who is on the verge of falling into the deadly post teenage trap of feeling helpless, hopeless and depressed about their future. Some ideas: sponsor coding camps/programming classes, fund their college education or their sports interests. Encourage, encourage encourage. (Start with the worst off in the family. I am planning to adopt our 23-yo soon-to-be-full-drug-addict nephew unless someone intervenes. He's grown more despondent and depressed after dropping out of college. His troubled childhood and misery of coping with a broken family - parents are now effectively divorced has turned him into a lone outcast. I still remember holding him as a rugrat. I still believe we can cultivate a future he can be proud of.) 4. Lastly, simple thing: when folks invite you over for dinner or barbecues always insist on making the salad or dessert. Make it, don't buy it. I think in the end you have to decide how you feel about compassion. There are some folks who have an absolute and resolute belief that compassion is a weakness of character. I personally believe compassion makes every one of us Superman.

return0 10y ago

He does point out his 'problem' multiple times: too much aggressiveness in channels that are not made for that. This is not limited to millionaires though, you will find many driven people struggling to understand how people with lower drive can 'live like that'. I think some people are cut out to be in a specific role, entrepreneurship, position of power etc, and they feel miserable elsewhere. As for the money problem, you can avoid most of the problems by not mentioning your wealth to everyone and certainly by not showing it. Keep that for the closest of your bros, no further.

CodeWriter23 10y ago

Yep, narcissism is a bitch. Especially when it perpetuates denial that the common factor in one's issues is oneself.

probablyfiction 10y ago

> And I continually hurt those around me — just by being myself-and it’s beyond heartbreaking. If you're an asshole without money, you're going to be an asshole when you have money, too. Money doesn't change you; it reveals you. This is an interesting read, but the author spends way too much time defending his POV. He expects the people around him to just intuitively know what his skills are, but that isn't realistic. People can't know what you consider yourself to be good at unless you tell them.

jostylr 10y ago

I find the author's notion of being a leader to be a bit disturbing. A leader is someone whose authority is granted to them by those they are leading. A great leader is someone who may not even be thought of as a leader, but nevertheless directs and coordinates the actions and willing to take the flak for the team. The idea of a leader taking control of a 4 member band without consent is laughable. That is a dictator, not a leader. It strikes me as interesting that I do not see this called out more in the comments.

samnwa 10y ago

Sorry this guy is an a-hole, I guess?

erl 10y ago

"... but I’m not cut out to be a stay at home parent" As with leadership skills, I think that enjoying to be a stay at home parent also must be learnt. It might seem hard, or boring, or tedious to some. But I am convinced basically anyone can make an enjoyable experience of it if they actually make an effort. It will not come automatically, it will take some time and effort.