12 ms·

I own one and I agree it is great. These seem to be the issues others have with it: 1. The price - Personally I don't think it is justified to essentially bump

by jclardy 10y ago

I own one and I agree it is great. These seem to be the issues others have with it: 1. The price - Personally I don't think it is justified to essentially bump the "actual" MBP (meaning touchbar and 29w processor) by $500 for what we get. The original retina 13" were similar price wise at release, but the display was a massive upgrade. The touchbar not so much. 2. No kaby lake - this is an intel release timing issue, if you want Kaby Lake wait a few more months. 3. Questionable utility of the touchbar - I own one and it is useful for anything with linear editing...so audio or video. Otherwise I just use it for media functions just like I would with physical keys (I don't use the function keys.) It could be more useful in the future given more software support. 4. Dongles - This is another temporary problem until devices are all USB-C. 5. No magsafe - Sad, but there is one advantage in that you can now do power/display/connectivity all over one port...and I can't go back from that. I have an LG 4k monitor with USB-C so I just plug in one cable and get my 4k display, mechanical keyboard, and speakers just from that. And I can rearrange my desk to put my laptop on either side of the screen. For me I'm either plugged in at my desk or wireless elsewhere, so tripping over a cable was never really an issue for me once we hit the 5+ hour battery mark. 6. The keyboard - I love it, and switch off from my Whitefox with Cherry mx blues on my desk. Most mobile keyboards feel squishy to me but the new switches they are using give a lot of stability and a pretty solid click as well, even though they have such little travel.

ashark 10y ago
> 4. Dongles - This is another temporary problem until devices are all USB-C. What I've learned from all this discussion about usb-c is that some people replace all their peripherals and secondary devices on a much more aggressive timescale than I do. For me dongles would likely be an annoying companion, with few or no usb-c devices ever plugging in to it, for the lifespan of this MPB if I bought one today. My next one in 3-5 years, that might be a different story. But for this one, now? All-usb-c is a turn-off, as it'll be years before that's a "feature" that makes me say anything other than "oh, that's an unfortunate limitation".
- pyrophane 10y ago
  And then there are probably quite a few people like me who essentially have no peripheral.
  - FabHK 10y ago
    I don't have many peripherals, but traveling frequently I've acquired the habit of not carrying extra USB chargers, but charging iPhone and Apple Watch via the laptop overnight. Can't do that on the "cheap" (non-touchbar) model (while also charging) without extra hub. Worse now with the AirPods.
    - Tanegashima 10y ago
      Why you can't? It has two ports. Also, nobody does that, stop making excuses.
      - FabHK 10y ago
        err, well, I do do that. And it's not an excuse, it's a complaint. Finally, let us count together: 1 port to charge the computer, 1 port (with USB-C to lightning cable, $19) for the iPhone, 1 port (with USB-C to plain old USB dongle, $9) for the Apple Watch, 1 port (with USB-C to lightning cable, $19) for the AirPods That makes 4 ports, and I have 2. Thus, hub it is.
        dkonofalski 10y ago
        I think his/her complaint about your complaint (uh oh. we broke it.) is that this would be the case for any USB config. If you had the same situation with current USB cables, you'd still need to get a hub so the problem isn't actually USB-C, just the number of devices you're using at the same time.
        FabHK 10y ago
        But but but the old MacBook Air had one MagSafe and two USB ports (and SD card and Thunderbolt), so it had strictly more ports, and I could charge it all at the same time (except now AirPods). But yes, the problem is not USB-C per se, the problem is the small number of ports unless you pony up for the TouchPad model.
stcredzero 10y ago
2. No kaby lake - this is an intel release timing issue, if you want Kaby Lake wait a few more months. Nvidia 1060 graphics! I don't need faster or more power efficient CPU as much as I need faster and more power efficient GPU!
- tolger 10y ago
  1060 GPUs are power hungry, and MacBook Pros have generally not included this class of graphics hardware. It would be more likely, if they were to move to Nvidia, to use the 1050 instead.
  - dgfgfdagasdfgfa 10y ago
    > MacBook Pros have generally not included this class of graphics hardware Isn't this a larger problem? It's not just graphics anymore; it's the ability to work on basic ML. Even the top of the line GPU you can fit in a laptop is barely enough to handle this, and Apple seems to prefer to believe that need doesn't exist. Hell, even the Mac Pro has anemic and HUGELY overpriced compute options. And forget about Vulcan.
    - caycep 10y ago
      granted, while it's great in concept to work on ML everywhere, given that it is such a data and GPU-hungry process, the tradeoffs for an ML capable machine would make a shitty laptop. All the nVidia engineers that I see use a large "portable desktop" that has to accommodate the increased cooling and power contraints for a discrete GPU. And, after having a number of laptops (and an iMac) die from heat death due to the ball grid array solders of the GPU wearing out, I'm done with discrete GPU's in anything other than a desktop box. Better in this day and age to prototype on the macbook, then offload the heavy lifting to a dedicated ML box or, at the rate things are going, to Amazon...
      - dgfgfdagasdfgfa 10y ago
        I generally do agree, but 'laptop' is a little disingenuous when you're talking about an engineer's workstation—I get very little code written out of reach of a power socket. I'd even put up with a heavier/clunkier/louder machine (slightly) for a gpu/power boost. They did use to make 17" laptops; calling those portable was really stretching the word.
abalone 10y ago
> I'm either plugged in at my desk or wireless elsewhere, so tripping over a cable was never really an issue for me once we hit the 5+ hour battery mark I had the same reaction to the loss of magsafe. It was such a cool hardware feature, but ever since all-day batteries became the norm it's just not the same world as when we had to be constantly plugged in at every meeting, cafe, etc. Remember those days of always searching for outlets at cafes, and the rats nest? Mostly gone.
gutnor 10y ago
You forget the one probably underlying problem: the feeling that Apple has given up or on its way to give up the Mac. As you said, there is not major failings in the new MBP ... but it comes after 2 years wait, in a side event (i.e. not really the big front stage for this "Back to the Mac"), with muddled message. Apple has made bold decisions in this Mac but didn't follow up by giving the impression it was behind it. You get USB-C, yeah, hopefully maybe some third party will do cool stuff, like screens because Apple is not doing those anymore, ... It is also bad timing with the phasing out of the Wifi Router dropped like that as an unremarkable footnote despite being key in cloud feature like "Back to my Mac" or "Time machine". There was a definitive feeling that something was off. MacRumors all black buying guide, Apple regular lack of comment about its future plan made that feeling even worse. Twice in a month after that, Apple had had to confirm that they are still committed to the Mac, both to the public and to their own employees ! That's what people are concerned about. Nobody wants to buy into a dying ecosystem and Apple 2016 has done very little for the Mac. We will see how 2017 turns out, but I'm part of the people that prefer to wait until November 2017 to see if Apple is now sliding the MBP into a bi-yearly release cycle to decide if it is time to think about a plan B. edit: Forgot to mention. I think on its own that the new MBP is a great machine, I'm itching to get one. I'm actually delaying the purchase decision as much as possible for the reason mentioned above.
- chipotle_coyote 10y ago
  You forget the one probably underlying problem: the feeling that Apple has given up or on its way to give up the Mac. While I've had this feeling at times in the recent past myself, there's a kind of irony in this conversation being reinforced by the new MBP. Apple committed the time and resources necessary to essentially build an entire new iOS device and integrate it into the Mac, including the Touch ID sensor, and add explicit support for it in the majority of their applications (over two dozen, ranging from the little freebies like Notes and Preview up to all of iWork, FCP, Motion and Logic). Whether one thinks the Touch Bar is "worth it" -- or even the right approach to adding touch support to the Mac -- is a different debate, of course, and worth arguing about. But if Apple wasn't committed to the Mac product line, it's hard to see why they would have bothered. This isn't something they just hacked together at the last minute to make it look like they've been doing something; they've really been doing something. For the Touch Bar to make sense it's going to have to show up on the non-pro Macbook this year, and I suspect on the Magic Keyboard. I think the real anger is around what's going on with the desktop Mac line, particularly the Mac Pro and the Mac mini. I suspect that the new "trashcan" design had some kind of critical flaw that left Apple in a Catch-22 situation: they can't upgrade it without changing the design, but the market is too small for them to spend a lot of money changing the design again.
hobarrera 10y ago
> No magsafe: You might be interested in this: https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po... It's not the same as having the builtin magsafe, but if you NEED safetly (eg: people tend to trip over your wire), it's wook.
- hyperbovine 10y ago
  Apple owns patents on Magsafe which won't run out for many years to come. So, the knockoffs are inferior. I really despise this move by Apple. Steve is rolling in his grave. http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/06/this-magsafe-ripoff-cable-sucks/ http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/06/this-magsafe-ripoff-cable-...
  - matt_wulfeck 10y ago
    Yes but they've just switched to a universal USB-C charging standard. Jeeze it's like they can't win no matter what they do.
    - macintux 10y ago
      And no matter what they do, Jobs will be rolling in his grave. It's the law.
    - dkonofalski 10y ago
      Well, they won't win with this crowd. The parent article shows they're still winning so they're obviously doing something right.
- cdmckay 10y ago
  I have the BreakSafe cable and it's not great. The magnet is much weaker, so it breaks the connection really easily. Apple should make a MagSafe USB-C connector. I would buy that in a heartbeat.
- acomar 10y ago
  "wook"? I tried googling for it but all I found was "dirty hippy".
Eric_WVGG 10y ago
Between the ability to plug power on either side of the laptop, and getting a nearly full charge in thirty minutes, I don't really miss Magsafe at all.
drewjaja 10y ago
I purchased a new Macbook and the magsafe is the feature i miss most about my old Macbook. The current USB-C connector doesn't have a light to indicate that the Macbook is charging, it only has a faint beep when you plugin the USB-C.
hackuser 10y ago
> No magsafe Has anyone seen or personally heard of someone yanking their laptop, of any brand or model, onto the floor via the power cable? I haven't. I instinctively think it's a risk, but reality says otherwise. It seems to me like a solution looking for a problem; the only reason I ever suspected that it's a real problem is that Apple made the Magsafe connectors - maybe they had some data that I didn't. Now I suspect it was all to address unfounded fears in consumers. I've seen it happen plenty of times with cell phones, however. I wouldn't mind a Magsafe connector for an iPhone.
- skissane 10y ago
  I actually did it to a Dell laptop about 4-5 years ago. Somehow I got the power cable tangled in the office chair I was sitting on, and when I moved the chair the laptop fell to the floor. Managed to put a small crack in the body, although I didn't notice any other damage, and everything appeared to function fine after that. Never bothered trying to get it fixed, I just lived with the crack for a few more months until I got the laptop replaced (for completely unrelated reasons – I moved to a different team at work, and members of my new team were eligible for beefier machines than my old team were.) I was lucky, could easily have resulted in much worse damage than it did.
- goofed 10y ago
  I would have killed 3 macbooks if I didn't have magsafe.
- comex 10y ago
  I haven't, but having my MagSafe cable ripped out of my laptop thanks to one of the house dogs running through it is a semi-regular occurrence. Not really looking forward to upgrading.
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  I've seen a friend Dell completely destroyed by someone stumbling over the cable.
- mypalmike 10y ago
  Magsafe protects the laptop. But more directly, it protects physical power port from damage and wear. The magsafe connection gets pulled out of my Macbook with enough frequency that I know I'd otherwise be slowly bending the power port on a standard DC adapter.
visarga 10y ago
> the touchbar is useful for anything with linear editing If there only was a dedicated surface capable of recording movement, linear or otherwise.
- sundvor 10y ago
  You mean, like a pad that can track input movements? Wow, that'd be rather revolutionary.
bayofpigs 10y ago
These are my thoughts too, but mostly price. Was going to buy new 15 MBP but for 512GB drive you are looking at $2800 +tax. Where is the option to pass on the discrete graphics card? Eo add insult to injury they gimped the bus speed on the only model w/out the discreet card.
arthurfm 10y ago
If you believe the rumours [1], the Kaby Lake MacBook Pros are more than 5 months away from being released. Apple will no doubt wait until September/October 2017 to release the updated models considering how well the current versions are selling. [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/16/kaby-lake-macbooks-ming-chi-kuo/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/16/kaby-lake-macbooks-ming...

by jclardy 10y ago

ashark 10y ago

> 4. Dongles - This is another temporary problem until devices are all USB-C. What I've learned from all this discussion about usb-c is that some people replace all their peripherals and secondary devices on a much more aggressive timescale than I do. For me dongles would likely be an annoying companion, with few or no usb-c devices ever plugging in to it, for the lifespan of this MPB if I bought one today. My next one in 3-5 years, that might be a different story. But for this one, now? All-usb-c is a turn-off, as it'll be years before that's a "feature" that makes me say anything other than "oh, that's an unfortunate limitation".

pyrophane 10y ago
And then there are probably quite a few people like me who essentially have no peripheral.
- FabHK 10y ago
  I don't have many peripherals, but traveling frequently I've acquired the habit of not carrying extra USB chargers, but charging iPhone and Apple Watch via the laptop overnight. Can't do that on the "cheap" (non-touchbar) model (while also charging) without extra hub. Worse now with the AirPods.
  - Tanegashima 10y ago
    Why you can't? It has two ports. Also, nobody does that, stop making excuses.
    - FabHK 10y ago
      err, well, I do do that. And it's not an excuse, it's a complaint. Finally, let us count together: 1 port to charge the computer, 1 port (with USB-C to lightning cable, $19) for the iPhone, 1 port (with USB-C to plain old USB dongle, $9) for the Apple Watch, 1 port (with USB-C to lightning cable, $19) for the AirPods That makes 4 ports, and I have 2. Thus, hub it is.
      - dkonofalski 10y ago
        I think his/her complaint about your complaint (uh oh. we broke it.) is that this would be the case for any USB config. If you had the same situation with current USB cables, you'd still need to get a hub so the problem isn't actually USB-C, just the number of devices you're using at the same time.
        FabHK 10y ago
        But but but the old MacBook Air had one MagSafe and two USB ports (and SD card and Thunderbolt), so it had strictly more ports, and I could charge it all at the same time (except now AirPods). But yes, the problem is not USB-C per se, the problem is the small number of ports unless you pony up for the TouchPad model.

stcredzero 10y ago

2. No kaby lake - this is an intel release timing issue, if you want Kaby Lake wait a few more months. Nvidia 1060 graphics! I don't need faster or more power efficient CPU as much as I need faster and more power efficient GPU!

tolger 10y ago
1060 GPUs are power hungry, and MacBook Pros have generally not included this class of graphics hardware. It would be more likely, if they were to move to Nvidia, to use the 1050 instead.
- dgfgfdagasdfgfa 10y ago
  > MacBook Pros have generally not included this class of graphics hardware Isn't this a larger problem? It's not just graphics anymore; it's the ability to work on basic ML. Even the top of the line GPU you can fit in a laptop is barely enough to handle this, and Apple seems to prefer to believe that need doesn't exist. Hell, even the Mac Pro has anemic and HUGELY overpriced compute options. And forget about Vulcan.
  - caycep 10y ago
    granted, while it's great in concept to work on ML everywhere, given that it is such a data and GPU-hungry process, the tradeoffs for an ML capable machine would make a shitty laptop. All the nVidia engineers that I see use a large "portable desktop" that has to accommodate the increased cooling and power contraints for a discrete GPU. And, after having a number of laptops (and an iMac) die from heat death due to the ball grid array solders of the GPU wearing out, I'm done with discrete GPU's in anything other than a desktop box. Better in this day and age to prototype on the macbook, then offload the heavy lifting to a dedicated ML box or, at the rate things are going, to Amazon...
    - dgfgfdagasdfgfa 10y ago
      I generally do agree, but 'laptop' is a little disingenuous when you're talking about an engineer's workstation—I get very little code written out of reach of a power socket. I'd even put up with a heavier/clunkier/louder machine (slightly) for a gpu/power boost. They did use to make 17" laptops; calling those portable was really stretching the word.

abalone 10y ago

> I'm either plugged in at my desk or wireless elsewhere, so tripping over a cable was never really an issue for me once we hit the 5+ hour battery mark I had the same reaction to the loss of magsafe. It was such a cool hardware feature, but ever since all-day batteries became the norm it's just not the same world as when we had to be constantly plugged in at every meeting, cafe, etc. Remember those days of always searching for outlets at cafes, and the rats nest? Mostly gone.

gutnor 10y ago

You forget the one probably underlying problem: the feeling that Apple has given up or on its way to give up the Mac. As you said, there is not major failings in the new MBP ... but it comes after 2 years wait, in a side event (i.e. not really the big front stage for this "Back to the Mac"), with muddled message. Apple has made bold decisions in this Mac but didn't follow up by giving the impression it was behind it. You get USB-C, yeah, hopefully maybe some third party will do cool stuff, like screens because Apple is not doing those anymore, ... It is also bad timing with the phasing out of the Wifi Router dropped like that as an unremarkable footnote despite being key in cloud feature like "Back to my Mac" or "Time machine". There was a definitive feeling that something was off. MacRumors all black buying guide, Apple regular lack of comment about its future plan made that feeling even worse. Twice in a month after that, Apple had had to confirm that they are still committed to the Mac, both to the public and to their own employees ! That's what people are concerned about. Nobody wants to buy into a dying ecosystem and Apple 2016 has done very little for the Mac. We will see how 2017 turns out, but I'm part of the people that prefer to wait until November 2017 to see if Apple is now sliding the MBP into a bi-yearly release cycle to decide if it is time to think about a plan B. edit: Forgot to mention. I think on its own that the new MBP is a great machine, I'm itching to get one. I'm actually delaying the purchase decision as much as possible for the reason mentioned above.

chipotle_coyote 10y ago
You forget the one probably underlying problem: the feeling that Apple has given up or on its way to give up the Mac. While I've had this feeling at times in the recent past myself, there's a kind of irony in this conversation being reinforced by the new MBP. Apple committed the time and resources necessary to essentially build an entire new iOS device and integrate it into the Mac, including the Touch ID sensor, and add explicit support for it in the majority of their applications (over two dozen, ranging from the little freebies like Notes and Preview up to all of iWork, FCP, Motion and Logic). Whether one thinks the Touch Bar is "worth it" -- or even the right approach to adding touch support to the Mac -- is a different debate, of course, and worth arguing about. But if Apple wasn't committed to the Mac product line, it's hard to see why they would have bothered. This isn't something they just hacked together at the last minute to make it look like they've been doing something; they've really been doing something. For the Touch Bar to make sense it's going to have to show up on the non-pro Macbook this year, and I suspect on the Magic Keyboard. I think the real anger is around what's going on with the desktop Mac line, particularly the Mac Pro and the Mac mini. I suspect that the new "trashcan" design had some kind of critical flaw that left Apple in a Catch-22 situation: they can't upgrade it without changing the design, but the market is too small for them to spend a lot of money changing the design again.

hobarrera 10y ago

> No magsafe: You might be interested in this: https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po... It's not the same as having the builtin magsafe, but if you NEED safetly (eg: people tend to trip over your wire), it's wook.

hyperbovine 10y ago
Apple owns patents on Magsafe which won't run out for many years to come. So, the knockoffs are inferior. I really despise this move by Apple. Steve is rolling in his grave. http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/06/this-magsafe-ripoff-cable-sucks/ http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/06/this-magsafe-ripoff-cable-...
- matt_wulfeck 10y ago
  Yes but they've just switched to a universal USB-C charging standard. Jeeze it's like they can't win no matter what they do.
  - macintux 10y ago
    And no matter what they do, Jobs will be rolling in his grave. It's the law.
  - dkonofalski 10y ago
    Well, they won't win with this crowd. The parent article shows they're still winning so they're obviously doing something right.
cdmckay 10y ago
I have the BreakSafe cable and it's not great. The magnet is much weaker, so it breaks the connection really easily. Apple should make a MagSafe USB-C connector. I would buy that in a heartbeat.
acomar 10y ago
"wook"? I tried googling for it but all I found was "dirty hippy".

Eric_WVGG 10y ago

Between the ability to plug power on either side of the laptop, and getting a nearly full charge in thirty minutes, I don't really miss Magsafe at all.

drewjaja 10y ago

I purchased a new Macbook and the magsafe is the feature i miss most about my old Macbook. The current USB-C connector doesn't have a light to indicate that the Macbook is charging, it only has a faint beep when you plugin the USB-C.

hackuser 10y ago

> No magsafe Has anyone seen or personally heard of someone yanking their laptop, of any brand or model, onto the floor via the power cable? I haven't. I instinctively think it's a risk, but reality says otherwise. It seems to me like a solution looking for a problem; the only reason I ever suspected that it's a real problem is that Apple made the Magsafe connectors - maybe they had some data that I didn't. Now I suspect it was all to address unfounded fears in consumers. I've seen it happen plenty of times with cell phones, however. I wouldn't mind a Magsafe connector for an iPhone.

skissane 10y ago
I actually did it to a Dell laptop about 4-5 years ago. Somehow I got the power cable tangled in the office chair I was sitting on, and when I moved the chair the laptop fell to the floor. Managed to put a small crack in the body, although I didn't notice any other damage, and everything appeared to function fine after that. Never bothered trying to get it fixed, I just lived with the crack for a few more months until I got the laptop replaced (for completely unrelated reasons – I moved to a different team at work, and members of my new team were eligible for beefier machines than my old team were.) I was lucky, could easily have resulted in much worse damage than it did.
goofed 10y ago
I would have killed 3 macbooks if I didn't have magsafe.
comex 10y ago
I haven't, but having my MagSafe cable ripped out of my laptop thanks to one of the house dogs running through it is a semi-regular occurrence. Not really looking forward to upgrading.
ajmurmann 10y ago
I've seen a friend Dell completely destroyed by someone stumbling over the cable.
mypalmike 10y ago
Magsafe protects the laptop. But more directly, it protects physical power port from damage and wear. The magsafe connection gets pulled out of my Macbook with enough frequency that I know I'd otherwise be slowly bending the power port on a standard DC adapter.

visarga 10y ago

> the touchbar is useful for anything with linear editing If there only was a dedicated surface capable of recording movement, linear or otherwise.

sundvor 10y ago
You mean, like a pad that can track input movements? Wow, that'd be rather revolutionary.

bayofpigs 10y ago

These are my thoughts too, but mostly price. Was going to buy new 15 MBP but for 512GB drive you are looking at $2800 +tax. Where is the option to pass on the discrete graphics card? Eo add insult to injury they gimped the bus speed on the only model w/out the discreet card.

arthurfm 10y ago

If you believe the rumours [1], the Kaby Lake MacBook Pros are more than 5 months away from being released. Apple will no doubt wait until September/October 2017 to release the updated models considering how well the current versions are selling. [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/16/kaby-lake-macbooks-ming-chi-kuo/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/16/kaby-lake-macbooks-ming...