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My concern with this is the problem of ensuring the safety of the person driving the cab and the real identity of the rider. Lots of drivers will be reluctant
by reubensutton 10y ago
My concern with this is the problem of ensuring the safety of the person driving the cab and the real identity of the rider.
Lots of drivers will be reluctant because they can be stiffed on the bill. Lots of passengers will be reluctant to use it due to the inherent risk of riding with what is essentially a stranger.
- timthelion 10y agoHow is it more dangerous for the driver than picking someone up on a streat corner?
- pikzel 10y agoBut that's not what Uber/Lyft does. And this is said to be an alternative to that.
- timthelion 10y agoAnd how do Uper/Lyft prevent ax murderers? http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/rideshare-incidents http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/rideshare-incidents
- blowski 10y agoThe same way society in general prevents it.
- timthelion 10y agoIn that case LibreTaxi should be just as safe, if Uber/Lyft don't have any tricks up their sleeves.
- djmobley 10y agoConsidering the number of drivers/riders these services have, and the number of rides completed, I'd say that's an impressively small list of -- in many cases alleged -- incidents. There's no way you could reasonably expect a rideshare service to eliminate all such incidents.
- angry-hacker 10y agoBut do you have anything to compare it with? Regular taxis, just hitchhiking etc? Maybe the whole safety thing is just fearmonger.
- valuearb 10y agoWe know the whole safety thing is a fear monger.
- stOneskull 10y agoif people are worried, they shouldn't use it. let the trailblazers get axed and eventually the trust ratings will build up on the non-murderers. then they can use it.
- valuearb 10y agoHow does you prevent axe murders in your home? http://www.al.com/news/mobile/index.ssf/2016/08/accused_citronelle_killer_used.html http://www.al.com/news/mobile/index.ssf/2016/08/accused_citr...
- mosselman 10y agoHe didn't say he uses traditional taxi's, maybe he has the same concerns for drivers in this situation. Also, I imagine a taxi company has some forms of insurance against people not paying, etc.
- Chris2048 10y agoWe need a "CryptoCab" app. Secure, signed verification of driver id. And the app will even pick a random location near your intended destination to disguise your true destination.
- throwanem 10y agoYou can do that second one already. Nothing requires that where you have a hire car drop you off be where you are actually going. Just, you know, tell the driver another place. (And don't let the app use background location data.)
- tim333 10y agoJust getting credit card details would be simpler. Works for Uber. Why fix it if it ain't broken?
- exDM69 10y agoCryptography can be used to maintain trust, not establish it. If there's no party checking who the driver is (in real life), having a cryptographic certificate isn't much of a guarantee apart from "it's the same guy it was yesterday". And if these certificates can be created ad-hoc, then you can always create a new one if you get a zero star review.
- macca321 10y agoUber apparently makes you take a photo of yourself and then does facial recognition to confirm the user at the start of a session.
- colinbartlett 10y agoCertainly a valid concern but I will say that the willingness of both rider and driver to share a ride with a stranger varies from country to country. I spent quite a lot of time in Russia before Uber took hold there and taking random rides from strangers, negotiating a price up front, was extremely common. Even as a tourist, I did it hundreds of times and it was generally accepted as safe by the populous. Sure, incidents occurred but I would bet if analyzed they were no more frequent than taxis or Uber.
- superquest 10y agoThis works less well for women ...
- exDM69 10y agoI see what you're implying but there are lots of places in the world where it's common to hail a ride from a complete stranger and men and women alike do so. There's always a risk of being a victim of a crime when hailing a ride from a stranger and while Uber/Lyft somewhat mitigate the risk, it's not completely safe either.
- superquest 10y agoTrue — which is why I said "works less well" and not "doesn't work". And you're absolutely right that safety is relative ;) Author was also implying that they were visiting Russia. It's much harder to assess safety when you're not a resident, especially when you don't speak the language. And the fact that because many people in a culture engage in some behavior says little about its safety — e.g. riding scooters in Saigon, or smoking!
- exDM69 10y ago> Author was also implying that they were visiting Russia. Yes, Russia especially is one of those places where every car on the road is a potential taxi and a lot of people use them. I haven't visited personally but friends of mine who have did tell about their experiences on hailing rides from strangers without knowing the language. Don't take my anecdote as a safety recommendation or evidence of it. It's a matter of cultural differences. Uber/Lyft provides you with a sense of safety, but if you end up being a victim of a crime in an Uber in Russia, I'm not sure how much they can or will help you afterwards.
- aylons 10y agoSo, we may finally have found a good completely legal application for Bitcoin and blockchain contracts? A blockchain-based rating system could be the killer app here.
- espadrine 10y agoHow would a blockchain possibly help with that? If it was proof-of-work, why would anyone trust that spending CPU time correlates with saying the truth? If it was proof-of-stake, how can you guarantee that bad actors won't simply create a new public key? And regardless, who would switch to an app that drains their battery?
- em3rgent0rdr 10y agoYou link your identity to the public ledger, and when people rate you positively, you build up your overall repuation score which anyone can verify on the public ledger.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Dylan16807 10y agoAnd a web of trust benefits from blockchains or smart contracts because _____?
- em3rgent0rdr 10y agobecause there is no centralized determinator of trust.
- Dylan16807 10y agoWeb of trust doesn't have a centralized determinator. You assign trust to people you've interacted with, and they assign trust to people they have interacted with, etc. Putting it on a blockchain doesn't make that more effective. If you look at the reviews of strangers, you have to figure out which ones are real and which ones are fake... it works exactly the same with or without blockchain.
- joeyspn 10y agoBlaBlaCar [0] operates/ed only with community reviews (for drivers and passengers) and is doing just fine in EU... It is in fact so successful, that govs and press always talk about "services like blablacar and uber" (they're classified as basically the same kind of service) [0] https://www.blablacar.com/ https://www.blablacar.com/
- tom_mellior 10y agoAs far as I understand, BlaBlaCar has some centralized controls on your identity since payments go through them and changing your payment info is not quite as easy as making up a new nickname. That's a big difference to an anonymous-by-default cash-only network.
- timlod 10y agoYou used to be able not to use any of their payment services. Also identity verification processes that they offer/ed are/were not obligatory. So in many cases references were all people used to trust someone. (I have been using the service for years)
- slowmotiony 10y agoThey operated for years without accepting payments, the payment is a recent thing.
- yoz-y 10y agoTheir business model is to first expand to a territory by providing a simple connection between passengers and drivers. Then, when their user base is large enough, they introduce the payment system. However, when I was using the service it was quite common to get the drivers number and contact them directly for the "next" time.
- slowmotiony 10y agoMy point is that since the payments are a recent change, previously the rides were in fact completely anonymous.
- niccolop 10y agoI believe this is the core concern with all 'sharing economy' services, including Airbnb and Uber (which takes cash in some markets).
- pratap103 10y agoPassenger pick-up won't be as efficient. I'm assuming drivers will not be able to renegotiate their fare if they have to wait.
- PDoyle 10y agoDumb question - don't both of these concerns exist with normal taxis too?
- whorleater 10y agoTaxis, for all of their warts, have a number you can call, someone in the local government you can contact, etc.
- aeorgnoieang 10y agoHow is Uber or whatever that different? You can call the police, which are already someones "in the local government you can contact". And neither the police nor a taxi commission are capable of doing much to protect anyone before a crime is committed (except by the usual channels, e.g. credibly committing to punishing criminals).
- valuearb 10y agoYes, you can contact someone who won't give a crap. That's what you get for paying the monopoly price for taxi services.
- 77pt77 10y agoHow is that any different from taking a taxi nowadays?
- Cyph0n 10y agoTaxi drivers usually go through checks before they can get their license.
- 77pt77 10y agoNot the clients.
- Cyph0n 10y agoI was assuming OP was worried about the safety of the passengers. But yes, you're right. A one-way check is better than nothing though.
- valuearb 10y agoAnd yet taxi drivers still murder, rape and rob passengers every year. It's like the whole "background checks" thing is just a sop for fear mongers.
- Cyph0n 10y agoOf course they would! Why would you think that a background check would work everytime? And how about a change in behavior long after the checks? But you cannot deny that some kind of check is better than no checks at all.
- hobarrera 10y agoAnd yet taxi drivers still murder, rape and rob passengers every DAY. FTFY.
- shkkmo 10y agoI suspect this may be adopted in a lot of places by regular taxi drivers. Uruguay, for example, has something very similar called EasyTaxi (though I don't believe that App is open source) that allows you to call a taxi via an App and see when it arrives. You then pay the driver in outside the app via cash like you would any other taxi.
- joshlemer 10y agoIn this respect, isn't it identical to how regular taxis have operated for decades / centuries?
- galdosdi 10y agoShouldn't be an obstacle. This is already exactly how normal, hailable, regulated taxis work (at least in much of the USA, and certainly in NYC -- I can't speak for elsewhere). That's why taxi driver is (at least in the US) a statistically more dangerous occupation than police officer. From the point of view of a driver, this scheme is less dangerous than the status quo, at least there is potentially a little more paper trail to prove a rider rode. From the point of view of a rider, there is the advantage in regulated taxis that the driver is licensed and identified, but in countries where it's feasible, I don't see why LibreTaxi couldn't have an option to "request licensed driver only" or something
- chrisallick 10y agoGetting in a taxi with a $250K medallion and the city of New York behind it is much different than getting in someone's car... Without someone vetting these drivers and taking a risk and responsibility for people's safety, this seems like a terribly dangerous way for anyone to get around.
- galdosdi 10y agoMedallion has nothing to do with it, any TLC licensed driver can rent a medallion cab. To get a TLC license you pass a BS exam that anyone can pass and a background check, and get an ID. I don't see why LibreTaxi, in areas that have a individual driver licensing scheme, couldn't require that. You just look at the driver's license when you get in, or they post it on the back seat. The license information is recorded in LibreTaxi so everyone knows there's a paper trail if anything happens. This would be identical in safety for everyone to medallion hailable cabs, or am I missing something?
- ansible 10y agoMedallion has nothing to do with it, any TLC licensed driver can rent a medallion cab. To get a TLC license you pass a BS exam that anyone can pass and a background check, and get an ID. If I was going to do nefarious things, I wouldn't bother with any of that. I'd instead just carjack a taxi and have at it.
- madpierrot 10y agoOne way to manage this issue is by requiring ID verification for drivers ,another solution would be to implement a decentralized ledge (blockchain-like) ledger for who rides with whom .
- BinaryWaves 10y agoIf you read the authors blog post, you would see such fears are more or less due to overthinking and overcomplicating the issue at hand