12 ms·

Getting out of the cloud…

204 points by snw 10y ago

openmosix 10y ago
For the tech industry, this is gonna be harder to navigate than the upcoming regulations on visas and h1bs. I don't even want to think about all the refactoring and rearchitecting to provide data segregation on multi-region. What a mess.
boomboxy 10y ago
Don't want to sound like I sound, but this might be the end of the Internet as we know it.
- surferbayarea 10y ago
  more like the internet will finally be fixed. There is no reason gmail cannot encrypt my email and remove pii data, except that it will eat into advertising revenues. Its easy for companies like Google to take a stand on an easy thing like the government making it a bit harder to get visas, but when it comes to saying no to government requests for your email - they happily comply.
  - lern_too_spel 10y ago
    The number one benefit that Gmail touted when it launched was searchable email. That will break. You're perfectly free to use E2E encryption on Gmail, and they are even trying to make it easy for you, though that project is evidently not as well staffed as the advertising org.
    - surferbayarea 10y ago
      search-ability is not a constraint for encryption. Eq see https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/papers/se.pdf https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/papers/se.pdf
      - lern_too_spel 10y ago
        Performant search is. Gmail wouldn't work with O(n) search times.
        surferbayarea 10y ago
        The inverted index could simply be built/live on client side. The cloud is then just a backup data storage. Encrypted email is downloaded, unencrypted and indexed on your laptop/phone etc.
        lern_too_spel 10y ago
        To be clear, you're proposing that users download their entire email storage to their phones and browsers before they can search or spam filter their email? And you think that this would be a compelling product for the average email user? I'm having a hard time figuring out if you're trolling.
        surferbayarea 10y ago
        Sure - might not be easy for email. It does work for imessages (no server storage, typical size 1-5GB, stored + indexed on client side). So once phones start having 50GB+ storage(wait my iphone already does :p), its not so far fetched to think of having a 20GB inbox stored+indexed on the phone - of course you don't need to store the attachments etc. Anyways, my point was not to suggest a full solution but to say that companies are not incentivized to solve this problem.
        askmike 10y ago
        > its not so far fetched to think of having a 20GB inbox stored+indexed on the phone Yes it is. Besides just syncing the data there are a huge number of other performance hits. > of course you don't need to store the attachments etc. Why not? Do you want to a) drop support for searching through attachments (like pdfs) or b) not encrypt those? > companies are not incentivized to solve this problem. There has been huge improvements in the last few years in this space (take Signal as an example). But major email providers are not incentivized because most users don't care, UX and performance suffer, email is inherently an unsafe (even if you put PGP on top [1]) and because they would not be able to make as much ad revenue (worse targeting). [1]: https://blog.filippo.io/giving-up-on-long-term-pgp/ https://blog.filippo.io/giving-up-on-long-term-pgp/
ktta 10y ago
Can any one please explain in layman terms what this means a bit more clearly? I think I understood the part where the US no longer a good place to store data, and that there are no proper privacy laws protecting foreign citizens' data that is stored on US soil. So basically, if you still want to have a proper privacy policy, GTFO your data to non-US servers ASAP. Anything else? Something I've gotten wrong?
- Beltiras 10y ago
  There's also the chance that USDoJ vs. Microsoft will land in USDoJ's favour. If so, then if your cloud provider is US-based (e.g. Amazon), then your data can be procured by the US government with a NSL or similar secret court mechanisms without you even being notified. I don't think that people frequenting HN need to have it explained to them why this is bad for US-based cloud providers. Amazon needs to segregate Frankfurt, fast.
  - darkr 10y ago
    Ireland's in the EU too (eu-west-1)
  - isolli 10y ago
    Will US companies really be able to segregate like you suggest? That sounds too easy...
- pjc50 10y ago
  EU law requires certain protections for data classed as "personal data" and "sensitive personal data". It especially requires that "Personal data shall not be transferred to a country or territory outside the European Economic Area unless that country or territory ensures an adequate level of protection for the rights and freedoms of data subjects in relation to the processing of personal data". There was an agreement, "safe harbour", with the US, but Trump has issued an EO that contradicts it: https://www.lawfareblog.com/us-eu-privacy-shield-maybe-yes-maybe-no https://www.lawfareblog.com/us-eu-privacy-shield-maybe-yes-m... If that agreement is terminated, then it's no longer legal to transfer personal data from the EU to the US. This affects rather a lot of companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998#Definition_of_personal_data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998#Defin...
toyg 10y ago
In fairness, this has been a long time coming - legal-aware geeks have been warning us since 2001 about the infamous PATRIOT Act. SafeHaven and PrivacyShield were both disingenuous attempts at persuading people that "actually we don't really mean that for you, friends". In a way, I'm glad the hypocrisy is over. This might actually help the European market.
simplehuman 10y ago
It's easier to move our own company's apps, I feel. What's harder is all the SaaS products that we use most of which are in the US :/ I have to look more closely into selfhosting solutions.
surferbayarea 10y ago
https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/countries/ https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/c... https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2016-H1/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/20... ~60,000 google user accounts(not just email, but all your web browsing data) were handed over to the government in 2016. And this was under the Obama administration.
- lern_too_spel 10y ago
  Those aren't requests to hand over all a user's data to the government. Half of those are subpoenas, and half of the remaining are search warrants. You're probably thinking of NSLs, which you can find ranges for https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/ https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/U..., but those don't contain content. Also, it's unclear why you're talking about the number of Americans when the executive order is a change in the handling of foreigners' data.
  - surferbayarea 10y ago
    FISA Content requests: July to December 2015 21000–21499. Note - FISA requests includes all personal information, NSL does not. And sure - this particular order is about foreigners' data, but they might require citizens' data in future. Also is data privacy only a US citizen's right? Googlers claimed to have strong views when non-citizen googlers were being treated unfairly on immigration. But no statement when non-citizens' privacy is being snatched away.
    - lern_too_spel 10y ago
      FISA is for non-Americans' data, and you were talking about Americans previously. You can't write an executive order that says you can get access to something you previously needed a warrant for without a warrant.
      - surferbayarea 10y ago
sghiassy 10y ago
Can anyone recommend a European alternative for Amazon AWS?
- lwhalen 10y ago
  Profitbricks. cloudscale.ch. If you want to go self-hosted, talk to fuzzy-logic.org.
  - tex0 10y ago
    Indeed, these providers offer "virtual servers" as well, but if look beyond that they play an entirely different game than AWS. The only relevant competitors to AWS are Google and maybe MS Azure. Both also US companies. No one else is anywhere near the level of scale and expertise AWS has.
    - lwhalen 10y ago
      One could always get a bit closer API-wise and go with a self-hosted Openstack cloud. It's a bit more involved than many folks care for, but if 'API-CRUDable VMs, networks, object storage, images' and similar are the goal, the market's pretty thin.
    - wattt 10y ago
      I would add Digital Ocean as a lower tier, they seem to have provisioning plugins for everything I use (mostly Vagrant) but I roll my own DNS and load balancing. Still US-based unfortunately.
- thallian 10y ago
  I have a good experience with cloudsigma.ch (but that only replaces the EC2 part, so it depends on what you need).
- tex0 10y ago
  Depends on your requirements, but I dare to say there is none.
- 10y ago
Taek 10y ago
It's things like these that push me so hard in the direction of decentralized cloud applications. Centralized institutions should not be able to see your data, and foreign powers should not be able to command them to drop your data (or otherwise hold it hostage).
- isolli 10y ago
  Can you provide some recommendations?
  - Taek 10y ago
    Full disclosure, I am the founder of Sia, which of course is my favorite and I do believe is far ahead of all the other platforms at this time. https://sia.tech https://sia.tech There is also Storj, MaidSafe, Filecoin, Swarm, and sort-of-but-not-quite IPFS. Storj and Sia are the front runners for private data like family photos, computer backups, etc. I don't really consider Storj to be decentralized here though. Swarm I know less about, but I believe their focus is more on file sharing. IPFS is closer to a replacement for http and BitTorrent (both), great for high-demand files or files that are being explicitly hosted on a web server but not so much private data. I think they plan to upgrade this with Filecoin. MaidSafe is 10 years old and still in alpha. They have huge ambitions but I think too huge, they don't seem capable of publishing things.
- floatboth 10y ago
  But what if I specifically want to store my own personal data in a different country? I want privacy from my government, not from foreign ones!
  - Taek 10y ago
    I'm the case of Sia at least you will have the ability to whitelist and/or blacklist hosts on the network. Which makes it really easy to control which countries do or don't end up with your data.
emptyfile 10y ago
Starting to think the Trump presidency will be great for Europe, by making it politically unfeasible for European politicians to continue pretending the US is a good ally, leader of the free world, champion of liberal values, etc... The US fifth column voluntarily leaving the EU will surely expedite the process.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  > Starting to think the Trump presidency will be great for Europe I'm in Europe and I'm getting seriously worried the US will start the Third World War within coming months...
  - Ntrails 10y ago
    Why? What warmongering have you seen? What has been done thus far that wasn't broadcasted in the campaign? Where in the campaign was there indication that he'd want to start a war? I'm not saying it's impossible that trump could be offensive enough to cause an attack on the US which then results in offensive US action - but I've seen nothing to indicate he'll go looking to do so as a matter of policy. Hyperbole is everywhere at the moment and whilst it makes for pithy comment it detracts from realistic concerns about the outcomes of his policy decisions. By giving people easy excuses to ignore "anti trump" comments (because they're a mixture of valid concerns and silliness) you grant him more freedom. He is probably less likely to actively pursue conflict with Russia than his alternative, and he's reaffirmed support for NATO (which was no doubt part of the package traded for a non critical stance by the UK PM).
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      I haven't seen any warmongering. But what was broadcasted in the campaign I honestly rejected as too ridiculous to be true, and a case of media exaggerating about a candidate they don't like. But now it turns out that what was broadcasted in the campaign is in fact what the current President means to do, and this is scary. From what I remember from my history lessons, it smells too much of how Hitler started his rule, and I don't recall him saying he wants to invade the rest of Europe either. That only came up after he was entrenched in power and stepped up the internal purges. Assuming this doesn't happen, there's also a second scenario I fear - the US will say "fuck you Europe" and utterly withdraw, and Russia will get expansionist ideas. Either way, I don't feel that what's going on leads to a safe and stable life here in Europe. (And that's beside the fact that the same sentiments that led to Trump's victory is also clearly visible in many parts of Europe; with nationalist tendencies on the rise, EU breakup and/or a war in Europe aren't beyond possibility). Call me paranoid, but I am afraid. Not in a hypothetical way, I actually stress over it and it impares my day-to-day life.
hedonistbot 10y ago
Dear HN, please scale down the panic. >President Trump’s Executive Order calls for federal agencies in the U.S. to ensure that their privacy notices make clear that Privacy Act protections extend only to citizens and permanent residents of the U.S. Importantly, Article 14 of the Order explicitly states that the federal agencies must do so in a manner that is “consistent with applicable law.” In the context of EU-U.S. data transfers for law enforcement purposes, the Judicial Redress Act constitutes applicable law, and thus President Trump’s Executive Order, as written, should not impact the Judicial Redress Act’s extension of the Privacy Act’s protections to citizens of the EU. As a result, absent further action from the U.S. government, we do not expect this Executive Order to impact the legal viability of the Privacy Shield Framework. https://www.huntonprivacyblog.com/2017/01/28/privacy-shield-impact-of-trumps-executive-order/ https://www.huntonprivacyblog.com/2017/01/28/privacy-shield-...
- uiri 10y ago
  Yes, seriously. Trump's orders only apply to the federal government. State and local governments, along with private companies, still have full discretion when it comes to their privacy policies and other actions.
- hedonistbot 10y ago
  Here is a good summary from Techcrunch. TLDR: the EO shouldn't invalidate Privacy Shield protections, but the whole framework is flawed and does not guarantee privacy of EU citizens. The relevant parts: > The spokeswoman has now sent us a statement in which the EC asserts that Privacy Shield “does not rely on the protections under the U.S. Privacy Act”. > Critics of Privacy Shield –– including the lawyer who brought the original challenge against Safe Harbor — have consistently argued the arrangement contains the same fundamental flaws as its invalidated predecessor, given ongoing U.S. government agency surveillance programs accessing European citizens’ data. https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/26/trump-order-strips-privacy-rights-from-non-u-s-citizens-could-nix-eu-us-data-flows/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/26/trump-order-strips-privacy...
_pdp_ 10y ago
“A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” ― Winston S. Churchill
mi100hael 10y ago
It's hilarious that Obama expanded the powers, scope, and capabilities of domestic spying more than any previous administration, but people thought he was a good dude and gave him a pass. Now Trump is in office less than a week and all of a sudden people are hair-on-fire worried about keeping their data on the same servers that have been essentially pwnd by the feds for years. Spoiler alert: nothing's changed except your level of interest in the issue.

204 points by snw 10y ago

For the tech industry, this is gonna be harder to navigate than the upcoming regulations on visas and h1bs. I don't even want to think about all the refactoring and rearchitecting to provide data segregation on multi-region. What a mess.

boomboxy 10y ago

Don't want to sound like I sound, but this might be the end of the Internet as we know it.

surferbayarea 10y ago
more like the internet will finally be fixed. There is no reason gmail cannot encrypt my email and remove pii data, except that it will eat into advertising revenues. Its easy for companies like Google to take a stand on an easy thing like the government making it a bit harder to get visas, but when it comes to saying no to government requests for your email - they happily comply.
- lern_too_spel 10y ago
  The number one benefit that Gmail touted when it launched was searchable email. That will break. You're perfectly free to use E2E encryption on Gmail, and they are even trying to make it easy for you, though that project is evidently not as well staffed as the advertising org.
  - surferbayarea 10y ago
    search-ability is not a constraint for encryption. Eq see https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/papers/se.pdf https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/papers/se.pdf
    - lern_too_spel 10y ago
      Performant search is. Gmail wouldn't work with O(n) search times.
      - surferbayarea 10y ago
        The inverted index could simply be built/live on client side. The cloud is then just a backup data storage. Encrypted email is downloaded, unencrypted and indexed on your laptop/phone etc.
        lern_too_spel 10y ago
        To be clear, you're proposing that users download their entire email storage to their phones and browsers before they can search or spam filter their email? And you think that this would be a compelling product for the average email user? I'm having a hard time figuring out if you're trolling.
        surferbayarea 10y ago
        Sure - might not be easy for email. It does work for imessages (no server storage, typical size 1-5GB, stored + indexed on client side). So once phones start having 50GB+ storage(wait my iphone already does :p), its not so far fetched to think of having a 20GB inbox stored+indexed on the phone - of course you don't need to store the attachments etc. Anyways, my point was not to suggest a full solution but to say that companies are not incentivized to solve this problem.
        askmike 10y ago
        > its not so far fetched to think of having a 20GB inbox stored+indexed on the phone Yes it is. Besides just syncing the data there are a huge number of other performance hits. > of course you don't need to store the attachments etc. Why not? Do you want to a) drop support for searching through attachments (like pdfs) or b) not encrypt those? > companies are not incentivized to solve this problem. There has been huge improvements in the last few years in this space (take Signal as an example). But major email providers are not incentivized because most users don't care, UX and performance suffer, email is inherently an unsafe (even if you put PGP on top [1]) and because they would not be able to make as much ad revenue (worse targeting). [1]: https://blog.filippo.io/giving-up-on-long-term-pgp/ https://blog.filippo.io/giving-up-on-long-term-pgp/

ktta 10y ago

Can any one please explain in layman terms what this means a bit more clearly? I think I understood the part where the US no longer a good place to store data, and that there are no proper privacy laws protecting foreign citizens' data that is stored on US soil. So basically, if you still want to have a proper privacy policy, GTFO your data to non-US servers ASAP. Anything else? Something I've gotten wrong?

Beltiras 10y ago
There's also the chance that USDoJ vs. Microsoft will land in USDoJ's favour. If so, then if your cloud provider is US-based (e.g. Amazon), then your data can be procured by the US government with a NSL or similar secret court mechanisms without you even being notified. I don't think that people frequenting HN need to have it explained to them why this is bad for US-based cloud providers. Amazon needs to segregate Frankfurt, fast.
- darkr 10y ago
  Ireland's in the EU too (eu-west-1)
- isolli 10y ago
  Will US companies really be able to segregate like you suggest? That sounds too easy...
pjc50 10y ago
EU law requires certain protections for data classed as "personal data" and "sensitive personal data". It especially requires that "Personal data shall not be transferred to a country or territory outside the European Economic Area unless that country or territory ensures an adequate level of protection for the rights and freedoms of data subjects in relation to the processing of personal data". There was an agreement, "safe harbour", with the US, but Trump has issued an EO that contradicts it: https://www.lawfareblog.com/us-eu-privacy-shield-maybe-yes-maybe-no https://www.lawfareblog.com/us-eu-privacy-shield-maybe-yes-m... If that agreement is terminated, then it's no longer legal to transfer personal data from the EU to the US. This affects rather a lot of companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998#Definition_of_personal_data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998#Defin...

toyg 10y ago

In fairness, this has been a long time coming - legal-aware geeks have been warning us since 2001 about the infamous PATRIOT Act. SafeHaven and PrivacyShield were both disingenuous attempts at persuading people that "actually we don't really mean that for you, friends". In a way, I'm glad the hypocrisy is over. This might actually help the European market.

simplehuman 10y ago

It's easier to move our own company's apps, I feel. What's harder is all the SaaS products that we use most of which are in the US :/ I have to look more closely into selfhosting solutions.

surferbayarea 10y ago

https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/countries/ https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/c... https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2016-H1/ https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/20... ~60,000 google user accounts(not just email, but all your web browsing data) were handed over to the government in 2016. And this was under the Obama administration.

lern_too_spel 10y ago
Those aren't requests to hand over all a user's data to the government. Half of those are subpoenas, and half of the remaining are search warrants. You're probably thinking of NSLs, which you can find ranges for https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/ https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/U..., but those don't contain content. Also, it's unclear why you're talking about the number of Americans when the executive order is a change in the handling of foreigners' data.
- surferbayarea 10y ago
  FISA Content requests: July to December 2015 21000–21499. Note - FISA requests includes all personal information, NSL does not. And sure - this particular order is about foreigners' data, but they might require citizens' data in future. Also is data privacy only a US citizen's right? Googlers claimed to have strong views when non-citizen googlers were being treated unfairly on immigration. But no statement when non-citizens' privacy is being snatched away.
  - lern_too_spel 10y ago
    FISA is for non-Americans' data, and you were talking about Americans previously. You can't write an executive order that says you can get access to something you previously needed a warrant for without a warrant.
    - surferbayarea 10y ago

sghiassy 10y ago

Can anyone recommend a European alternative for Amazon AWS?

lwhalen 10y ago
Profitbricks. cloudscale.ch. If you want to go self-hosted, talk to fuzzy-logic.org.
- tex0 10y ago
  Indeed, these providers offer "virtual servers" as well, but if look beyond that they play an entirely different game than AWS. The only relevant competitors to AWS are Google and maybe MS Azure. Both also US companies. No one else is anywhere near the level of scale and expertise AWS has.
  - lwhalen 10y ago
    One could always get a bit closer API-wise and go with a self-hosted Openstack cloud. It's a bit more involved than many folks care for, but if 'API-CRUDable VMs, networks, object storage, images' and similar are the goal, the market's pretty thin.
  - wattt 10y ago
    I would add Digital Ocean as a lower tier, they seem to have provisioning plugins for everything I use (mostly Vagrant) but I roll my own DNS and load balancing. Still US-based unfortunately.
thallian 10y ago
I have a good experience with cloudsigma.ch (but that only replaces the EC2 part, so it depends on what you need).
tex0 10y ago
Depends on your requirements, but I dare to say there is none.
10y ago

Taek 10y ago

It's things like these that push me so hard in the direction of decentralized cloud applications. Centralized institutions should not be able to see your data, and foreign powers should not be able to command them to drop your data (or otherwise hold it hostage).

isolli 10y ago
Can you provide some recommendations?
- Taek 10y ago
  Full disclosure, I am the founder of Sia, which of course is my favorite and I do believe is far ahead of all the other platforms at this time. https://sia.tech https://sia.tech There is also Storj, MaidSafe, Filecoin, Swarm, and sort-of-but-not-quite IPFS. Storj and Sia are the front runners for private data like family photos, computer backups, etc. I don't really consider Storj to be decentralized here though. Swarm I know less about, but I believe their focus is more on file sharing. IPFS is closer to a replacement for http and BitTorrent (both), great for high-demand files or files that are being explicitly hosted on a web server but not so much private data. I think they plan to upgrade this with Filecoin. MaidSafe is 10 years old and still in alpha. They have huge ambitions but I think too huge, they don't seem capable of publishing things.
floatboth 10y ago
But what if I specifically want to store my own personal data in a different country? I want privacy from my government, not from foreign ones!
- Taek 10y ago
  I'm the case of Sia at least you will have the ability to whitelist and/or blacklist hosts on the network. Which makes it really easy to control which countries do or don't end up with your data.

emptyfile 10y ago

Starting to think the Trump presidency will be great for Europe, by making it politically unfeasible for European politicians to continue pretending the US is a good ally, leader of the free world, champion of liberal values, etc... The US fifth column voluntarily leaving the EU will surely expedite the process.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
> Starting to think the Trump presidency will be great for Europe I'm in Europe and I'm getting seriously worried the US will start the Third World War within coming months...
- Ntrails 10y ago
  Why? What warmongering have you seen? What has been done thus far that wasn't broadcasted in the campaign? Where in the campaign was there indication that he'd want to start a war? I'm not saying it's impossible that trump could be offensive enough to cause an attack on the US which then results in offensive US action - but I've seen nothing to indicate he'll go looking to do so as a matter of policy. Hyperbole is everywhere at the moment and whilst it makes for pithy comment it detracts from realistic concerns about the outcomes of his policy decisions. By giving people easy excuses to ignore "anti trump" comments (because they're a mixture of valid concerns and silliness) you grant him more freedom. He is probably less likely to actively pursue conflict with Russia than his alternative, and he's reaffirmed support for NATO (which was no doubt part of the package traded for a non critical stance by the UK PM).
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    I haven't seen any warmongering. But what was broadcasted in the campaign I honestly rejected as too ridiculous to be true, and a case of media exaggerating about a candidate they don't like. But now it turns out that what was broadcasted in the campaign is in fact what the current President means to do, and this is scary. From what I remember from my history lessons, it smells too much of how Hitler started his rule, and I don't recall him saying he wants to invade the rest of Europe either. That only came up after he was entrenched in power and stepped up the internal purges. Assuming this doesn't happen, there's also a second scenario I fear - the US will say "fuck you Europe" and utterly withdraw, and Russia will get expansionist ideas. Either way, I don't feel that what's going on leads to a safe and stable life here in Europe. (And that's beside the fact that the same sentiments that led to Trump's victory is also clearly visible in many parts of Europe; with nationalist tendencies on the rise, EU breakup and/or a war in Europe aren't beyond possibility). Call me paranoid, but I am afraid. Not in a hypothetical way, I actually stress over it and it impares my day-to-day life.

hedonistbot 10y ago

Dear HN, please scale down the panic. >President Trump’s Executive Order calls for federal agencies in the U.S. to ensure that their privacy notices make clear that Privacy Act protections extend only to citizens and permanent residents of the U.S. Importantly, Article 14 of the Order explicitly states that the federal agencies must do so in a manner that is “consistent with applicable law.” In the context of EU-U.S. data transfers for law enforcement purposes, the Judicial Redress Act constitutes applicable law, and thus President Trump’s Executive Order, as written, should not impact the Judicial Redress Act’s extension of the Privacy Act’s protections to citizens of the EU. As a result, absent further action from the U.S. government, we do not expect this Executive Order to impact the legal viability of the Privacy Shield Framework. https://www.huntonprivacyblog.com/2017/01/28/privacy-shield-impact-of-trumps-executive-order/ https://www.huntonprivacyblog.com/2017/01/28/privacy-shield-...

uiri 10y ago
Yes, seriously. Trump's orders only apply to the federal government. State and local governments, along with private companies, still have full discretion when it comes to their privacy policies and other actions.
hedonistbot 10y ago
Here is a good summary from Techcrunch. TLDR: the EO shouldn't invalidate Privacy Shield protections, but the whole framework is flawed and does not guarantee privacy of EU citizens. The relevant parts: > The spokeswoman has now sent us a statement in which the EC asserts that Privacy Shield “does not rely on the protections under the U.S. Privacy Act”. > Critics of Privacy Shield –– including the lawyer who brought the original challenge against Safe Harbor — have consistently argued the arrangement contains the same fundamental flaws as its invalidated predecessor, given ongoing U.S. government agency surveillance programs accessing European citizens’ data. https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/26/trump-order-strips-privacy-rights-from-non-u-s-citizens-could-nix-eu-us-data-flows/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/26/trump-order-strips-privacy...

_pdp_ 10y ago

“A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” ― Winston S. Churchill

mi100hael 10y ago

It's hilarious that Obama expanded the powers, scope, and capabilities of domestic spying more than any previous administration, but people thought he was a good dude and gave him a pass. Now Trump is in office less than a week and all of a sudden people are hair-on-fire worried about keeping their data on the same servers that have been essentially pwnd by the feds for years. Spoiler alert: nothing's changed except your level of interest in the issue.