9 ms·
France bans unlimited sugary drink refills
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y agoDoes it affect drinks containing sugar exclusively, or does this also affect sugar-free soft drinks?
- ArmandGrillet 10y ago"Interdiction de la mise à disposition de boissons à volonté, gratuites ou pour un prix forfaitaire, avec ajout de sucres ou d'édulcorants de synthèse" : it affects drinks with added sugar and/or synthetic sweeteners (e.g. Coca Cola Zero).
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y agoOh, it's nonsense then. Artificially sweetened drinks don't create obesity.
- thecopy 10y agoWhat stops them from offer 100 refills?
- nilkn 10y agoOr just charging 1 cent (or equivalent) for a refill?
- tom_mellior 10y agoSeveral possibilities come to mind: 1. Laws are administered by judges who might have a different approach to interpretation than random HN commenters. 2. Openly flaunting the law might give more bad publicity that it would be worth. 3. There is practically zero market pressure to offer free refills, but not offering free refills is a potential goldmine.
- andrenth 10y agoIn a Brazilian state a law was passed that forbids restaurants to put salt shakers on their tables, as obviously a people shouldn't be able to decide how much salt they want on their food. The law specifically mentions putting salt shakers on the tables, though. This was the response: https://is.gd/oiQUop https://is.gd/oiQUop
- andrewclunn 10y agoFree refills? How dare you! That stomach doesn't belong to the consumer, it's merely being rented from the state!
- krastanov 10y agoYou are making an argument based on taking this to an extreme. But take it to the other extreme: is it governmental overreach that heroin is banned or is it a good public health policy? The merits of this new French law can be argued, but it is not an obvious overreach.
- chimeracoder 10y ago> But take it to the other extreme: is it governmental overreach that heroin is banned or is it a good public health policy? Given that the most effective treatment for heroin addiction is diacetylmorphine maintenance (aka, prescription-strength heroin)[0], I'd say it's definitely governmental overreach. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment
- notpc 10y agoI'm not in favor of restricting soda, but I strongly contest the heroin example you're giving. To call that "treatment" is really playing with the terms and shifting the goal posts. It's like saying that the treatment for gambling is to have unlimited money. You may be solving one problem, but you're not solving the central issue. Black-market heroin is particularly bad, but so is being addicted to opiates at all.
- jMyles 10y ago> is it governmental overreach that heroin is banned or is it a good public health policy? I think you are making a good point, but this is a horrific example. Heroin prohibition has been a spectacular failure. There are literally bodies in the streets to show for it.
- drdaeman 10y ago
- systems 10y agowell, they can make it up to 10 ... few really drink more than 3 silly rule
- XaspR8d 10y ago10 refills? Yeah even here in the states among the heaviest of soda drinkers that seems like a useless limit...
- Tade0 10y agoWhy do they mention only the country with the _second_ lowest obesity rate?
- chmod775 10y agoProbably because some insignificant (read: small) country has the lowest rate. It's easier to make comparisons when the population size is in the same order of magnitude.
- rrauenza 10y agoI wonder what the relative smoking rates are... http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2005-08-28/news/SMOKING_1_smoking-obese-human-behavior http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2005-08-28/news/SMOKING_... Some researchers have hypothesized that America's obesity rate is somewhat correlated with dropping smoking rates.
- tom_mellior 10y agoAccording to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette... France is relatively low on the list among EU countries.
- Tade0 10y agoRomania - which is in first place - has around 20 million inhabitants. Sure, it's a developing country but so is Bulgaria, which is both less developed and has a considerably higher rate of obesity.
- oblio 10y agoOn the other hand the list the world's greatest superpower, Malta, as having the highest obesity rate. BBC, where is your consistency? :) (BTW, Romania has the lowest rate, and it's not a micro-state :) )
- thesumofall 10y agoStrange, indeed. Romania has the lowest obesity rates according to Eurostat [1]. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't want to mention Romania except that Italy's low rate fits so well into the stereotype... [1] http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Overweight_and_obesity_-_BMI_statistics http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- digitalengineer 10y agoI remember my vacation in the states (in the South). I got served a absolutely massive glass of coca-cola with my dinner. When I had finally managed to finish it a waiter came and refilled the bloody thing when I wasn't paying attention. How can you enjoy your meal with that much to drink?
- FLGMwt 10y agoGrowing up in the states (North Texas), it's treated almost identically to water. There's a baffling lack of recognition that soda is as impactful as it is on health.
- xyzzy4 10y agoYou don't have to finish your drink.
- branchless 10y agoMany Americans accept gluttony and waste, both trouble many parts of the world. Obesity you are way ahead. But you do have a lot in common with the Mexicans for whatever reason: https://healthhabits.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/how-fat-is-your-country-chart-2.jpg https://healthhabits.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/how-fat-is-... But food waste actaully the USA isn't that far ahead of others, so I partly take that back: http://www.dow.com/performanceplastics/make-it-last/global-village.asp http://www.dow.com/performanceplastics/make-it-last/global-v...
- SomeStupidPoint 10y agoThe only waste from unfinished soda is the syrup. You'd have to clean the water after you peed it out anyway, and water gets recycled in most places. Real scarcity is a cause for moderation, and Americans aren't always good at that, but clean water is a highly renewable resource in the US (except in areas where the system is corrupt or there's tons of wasteful agriculture, neither of which is fixed by drinking less).
- rhapsodic 10y ago
- Jdam 10y agoIs it just me who's thinking that individuals in modern societies are not capable anymore of making meaningful decisions, including how much to drink? We're sacrificing freedom here because we became incapable. That scares me.
- munin 10y agowhen were we capable?
- toyg 10y agoBeat me to it. Before we were obese, we were already smokers, alcoholics, gambling addicts, sex fiends, violent thugs, opium lovers... if there is anything we can abuse, we will. Animals don't know when they're having too much of a good thing, evolutionary instincts are honed on getting as much as you can today because you could get none tomorrow.
- digi_owl 10y agoAnd modern psychological research have shown the corporations just how to game those instincts for profits...
- aianus 10y agoWhat profits? If they're charging you the same whether you get three refills or zero, that sounds like a pretty shitty way to get people to spend more on soda. We have free refills in Canada and they're basically just abused by teenagers and poor people so three people can drink from one soda.
- digi_owl 10y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_lunch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_lunch
- 10y ago
- mercurial 10y agoFrench (expat) here, can't remember ever seeing any when I lived in France. Have I always been at the wrong restaurants?
- riffraff 10y agoI can't talk about france, but where I live (Hungary) this isn't a thing in any restaurant. It is a thing in some american fast food chains though.
- acheron 10y agoThat's what I was wondering. I haven't spent much time in France, but in, e.g., Italy, I never saw the US-style "unlimited soda refills". I was wondering if France was different to the extent they felt the need to ban it.
- infinita740 10y agoIt's only a thing in some fast food chains like KFC or Quick.
- user5994461 10y agoThe only one chain doing unlimited drinks in France is KFC.
- tom_mellior 10y agoSomeone else mentioned Quick, I can't confirm from memory. I've had free refills at Pizza Hut in France, though.
- wott 10y agoI guess it is only a thing in junk food place (i.e. mostly American style places). Soda doesn't go well with "normal" meals anyway.
- RichardHeart 10y agoThere are no bad foods, only bad diets. Why pick on sugary drinks, but leave ice cream shops alone. Why not put a hazard tax on buffet restaurants. Imagine the government decides they don't like the way you live your life, so they make laws to screw you and people like you. Laws are the worst way to attempt to improve human dietary behavior. You could advertise fitness, create tastier low calorie beverages, even advertise drinking a full glass of water before eating. Positive fitness outcomes can be found using non punitive means.
- canadian_voter 10y agoI'd rather live in a country that provides comprehensive free health care and limits soda consumption, than one that allows me the "freedom" to consume as much sugar as possible and makes me pay for the consequences. I must be a radical hippie leftist: I think we should tax the sh-t out of refined sugar and subsidize organic vegetable farms.
- johnchristopher 10y agoThat's a very interesting debate to have. FTR: I remember reading somewhere something about a discussion between the USSR and the USA after WWII that went more or less like this: "Better to have a belly full with state jobs than jobless and hungry free men".
- verstaen 10y agoYou still have the freedom to drink as much as you want in France. This is not about the freedom to drink, this is about fighting obesity.
- johnchristopher 10y agoThat is not entirely true. For instance you can't drink in the street or be inebriated in public places. France also used to serve wine in schools (http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/47/74/06/20160130/ob_1c8cee_ob-6b6063-cantoche.jpg http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/47/74/06/20160130/ob_1c8cee_...). Maybe some law makers will come up with the idea to forbid sugary drinks and fast food to less than 18 or 21 years old (like it is for alcohol and cigarettes in some countries).
- wott 10y ago> For instance you can't drink in the street Untrue. A few municipalities forbid it, generally in specific places and/or for a specific duration, but the general rule is that it is allowed. > or be inebriated in public places. True, but not enforced. Only if you have done something wrong but they can't prove it or they don't want to bother proving it, they will (sometimes) charge you with that.
- mrfusion 10y agoIt seems like a Soda tax would be a less heavy handed approach. If you make the price high enough restaurants will stop offering refills all on their own.
- joezydeco 10y agoChicago is working on adopting such a tax, but for the moment only on bottled/prepackaged drinks. http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2016/11/10/cook-county-approves-soda-tax http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2016/11/10/cook-county-approv... They're trying to offset the increased cost of diabetes and other health issues linked to high-calorie drinks. It's meeting heavy resistance from lobbying groups at the moment. But
- eecks 10y agoHow does this effect sugar free drinks like Diet Coke and Coke Zero?
- mlok 10y agoDrinks with "added sugar substitutes" are banned as well. (From the link to the law text) https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000033922943&dateTexte=&categorieLien=id https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFT...
- DanBC 10y agoSugar substitutes tends to mean things like HFCS, Agave syrup, honey, etc: things that are sugar but not always called sugar on the label. Is that the case here, or is France really banning the artificial sweeteners too?
- tom_mellior 10y agoYes, drinks with artificial sweeteners are also affected by the ban on refills. No, France is not "banning artificial sweeteners".
- mdekkers 10y agoFrench expat since a week. Hard time finding diet/light alternatives in smaller stores.
- claydiffrient 10y agoWhen I was living in France and Switzerland free refills were basically unheard of. About the only place that I ever found that had free refills was IKEA.
- tnzn 10y agoMostly just KFC and Subway have been doing that, and it only started like 10 years ago at most, this may be why.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jamesmp98 10y agoThis is a human rights violation.
- tnzn 10y agoWhat's a human right violation is producing so much soda when people die because of a lack of water.
- realusername 10y agois that sarcasm?
- jamesmp98 10y agoIt was, I'm suprised that of all issues this generates such a strong response
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- paulddraper 10y agoHuman rights violations usually do.
- wott 10y agoBecause we have already read many fine American gentlemen asserting the same thing in all seriousness.
- adorable 10y agoYou are free to buy as much soda as you want.
- paulddraper 10y agoAnd restaurants can offer as many free refills as they want, as long as the limit is less than infinity. More of a violation against intelligence than against human rights.
- MarcusBrutus 10y agoThe depths of socialist / collectivist depravity that the French are willing to descend to are mind-staggering. And to think that, from time to time, one sees in HN some random joke of a post portraying France as a plausible startup location. Quelle décadence!
- realusername 10y agosocialist = banning unlimited soda refills ? seriously ?
- MarcusBrutus 10y agoIf a business is willing to offer me free soda refills and I freely choose to patronize thar business, then it takes a hardcore Stalinist to dare stand between us two and prevent by the force of guns this peacefull, voluntary exchange. Does one really need to explain that in the 21st century?
- realusername 10y agoIt's called a public health service! A wonderful thing which avoids becoming a society full of overweight and unhealthy individuals like the United States.
- FrancoDiaz 10y agoI applaud your very 1984-like spin on the law.
- Oletros 10y ago> then it takes a hardcore Stalinist Hyperbole like this is what makes those arguments ridiculous. Or perhaps you don't know what Stalinism, Socialism and Communism is and see it everywhere, like witches in the Middle Ages
- MarcusBrutus 10y ago
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- emptyfile 10y agoI guess this is more of a principle kind of thing since free refills are almost unheard of in Europe, even in American fast food franchises. In general soft drinks are incredibly overpriced in Europe since people drink so little of them.
- meanduck 10y ago> man has been proven by several dozens of studies If so Trump can back his actions by "several dozens of studies", then its ok right ? > If your definition of "freedom" is "doing whatever the fuck I want without any limitations no matter the consequences", then I fail to see how this is a value worth pursuing. Individual never do right. Collective never do wrong. Hmmm. Leave us alone. Please.
- gdulli 10y agoWhat does Trump have to do with this? This happened in France, it's in the headline. Trump would be against this, he'd likely allow Coca Cola lobbyists to write FDA policy if they were in his corner.
- meanduck 10y agoThis was not about Trump. This was about the state he represents.
- dang 10y agoPlease don't take HN threads further into political flamewar. Also, it looks like you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not what this site is for (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), so please stop doing that. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13506936 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13506936 and marked it off-topic.
- exabrial 10y agoThe replies to the topic where people fantasize about running other people's lives for them really makes my heart ache :(
- amelius 10y agoThe comparison has been made between sugary drinks and social media. Are they next?
- philipodonnell 10y agoIf I'm Coca-Cola or Pepsi or run a large restaurant chain in the US, I'm pushing this ban everywhere. Restaurants price soda to include the cost of people who get the free refills and the margins are high because of it. If the government suddenly banned free refills, restaurants won't lower prices because it will hurt top-line revenue and buying decisions aren't made on the price of soda with your meal. Consumption goes down but prices are stable means profits are higher, so Coke and Pepsi can raise their prices to restaurants, say both sides capture half that new margin. Soda makers win, restaurants win, consumers win because consuming less sugar assuming they don't pay for a refill, taxpayers win by lower burden on healthcare. Sounds great.
- notpc 10y agoYour understanding of the economics is off here. Soda syrup is dirt cheap. A five gallon box of syrup costs between $40 and $75 and makes 30 GALLONS of soda. So the syrup costs the restaurant 10-20 cents per cup of soda that they charge 2-3 dollars for.
- sakopov 10y agoThe irony of the situation is that they can't simply ration or ban these products because we live in the era of consumerism and the market would rather slowly kill you and make money off of you than ban something that is a health concern. So this is a double standard to keep French pencil pushers employed and French people thinking that their government is doing something positive.
- thiht 10y agoRelevant Parks and Rec. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oq3zt http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oq3zt In the show, citizens are pissed because Leslie, the politician lady, decides to tax oversized sodas. Maybe people don't deserve the "liberty" to drink gallons of sugar. And maybe companies don't deserve to offer it to people.