13 ms·

You Can Change Your Personality

215 points by wallflower 10y ago

ruminasean 10y ago
This isn't news to me, but I like having a handy little article that I can send to people to point to and say "See? It's not just me. Science."
- cel1ne 10y ago
  There's a book you might want to recommend: "The emotional life of your brain" by Richard Davidson. Written by a neuroscientist, it gives a thorough, scientifically tested framework for classifying traits of personality and changing them.
  - hive_mind 10y ago
    Nice reco. Which contemplative exercise do you find most useful?
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  I feel compelled to link to this[1] bit of writing by Yudkowsky. Science! It's not a real explanation, so much as a curiosity-stopper. You don't actually know anything more than you knew before I said the magic word. But you turn away, satisfied that nothing unusual is going on. 1. http://lesswrong.com/lw/j3/science_as_curiositystopper/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/j3/science_as_curiositystopper/
  - evincarofautumn 10y ago
    I think it’s more along the lines of “I have changed my personality before, so it’s obvious to me that it can be done; however, it may not be obvious to others without some evidence that it’s a recognised phenomenon”. In that case, “Science!” is intended not to sate curiosity, but to dispel doubt—and maybe then even pique curiosity.
nxc18 10y ago
People often use "its just my personality" as an excuse for bad behavior. Intuitively I think most people know that you have control over your behavior at the very least as well as aspects of your personality. Just like any other activity, you can practice being a more considerate, or more respectful, or less neurotic personality. There is a weird meme that tech people aren't capable of being "team players" or working with other people. Maybe research will help address that perception; awkward is ok, but we shouldn't accept that techies will be dicks to people all the time.
- refulgentis 10y ago
  Over time, it seemed to me there was a strong correlation between the technical expertise of my co-workers and their ability to neuter anti-social behavior. To be fair, I went from poorly funded startups and contracting work to BigCo.
- tw04 10y ago
  I've always wondered, given this "stereotype" if there isn't more to it. Is it possible that because, in general, people who were "nerds" were likely more of a social outcast growing up, that they have essentially become "hardened", if you will, to social graces. They spent so much of their developmental years being teased/ridiculed/whatever that what is "normal" treatment of others has essentially become foreign to them? Sure, you can form a relationship with your family, but that really doesn't extend to how you interact with people outside of your inner circle. There seems to be such a strong correlation, curious if anyone has ever studied it. It seems we've gotten to the point that so very much of our adult behavior can be traced to childhood events/upbringing that this can't be an outlier.
  - sametmax 10y ago
    +1. Most asocial persons I know have been raised that way by society. Now you want them to undo what took years of training. This is hard. And unfair.
    - mseebach 10y ago
steanne 10y ago
pretty typical salesmanship: if you convince people a) there's something wrong with them and b) that thing can be changed, you can sell them a cure.
- idiot74 10y ago
  Overly cynical comment. Article author isn't a psychologist, so has no reason to be a 'salesman'. Additionally, the question of how changeable an individual's personality is, is a perfectly valid and interesting topic to research. (Unfortunately the article does not mention the title, or provide a link to the research).
- paublyrne 10y ago
  Having had a short period of therapy myself, as well as having separately dated a therapist, I would say there is huge real value to that kind of work. It's not a con job. I feel your comment is a little insulting to people who undergo and benefit from therapy sessions. And unlike the Woodie Allen analyst cliche, it is not something that has no end; a short series of sessions can often be enough to help a patient make huge personal changes that improve the quality of their lives.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  If one is seeking therapy they usually do so because they are experiencing some sort of distress in their lives, thus they don't need to be convinced there is something wrong with them - they already know and presumably want to fix it.
vivekd 10y ago
Did I just miss something or did the article offer no evidence for it's position that personality can changer other than presenting some writing exercises by high schoolers that asked them if personality can change. It didn't seem to elaborate about how these exercises affected or changed their personality or present any other evidence or examples of changing personality. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that personality can change, just this article didn't seem to present a good basis for that thinking.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  They named the the journal and the issue but not the title of the meta-analysis itself. "In an analysis of 207 studies, published this month in the journal Psychological Bulletin, a team of six researchers found that personality can and does change, and by a lot, and fairly quickly. But only with a therapist’s help. (Imagine that.)" Edit: someone tracked down the original. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13452075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13452075
  - jaytaylor 10y ago
    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brent_Roberts/publication/312105742_A_Systematic_Review_of_Personality_Trait_Change_Through_Intervention/links/5870f1f308ae329d621714aa.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brent_Roberts/publicati...
- visarga 10y ago
  > I do believe that personality can change I don't think personality actually changes much, it just has some latent and some manifested aspects, depending on circumstance. In different circumstances it can manifest different aspects. It doesn't mean it changes, just that it can variate depending on context. It's often possible that trying to change your personality would lead to much suffering, because it's inherently difficult. I read some time ago a psychological study that applied MBTI to cult members. They were asked how they viewed their personality before, in the present and in the future. The trend was to attempt to emulate the personality type of the cult leader. Their happiness was inversely correlated to how much off-base they were attempting to be.
ajb 10y ago
Original paper: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brent_Roberts/publication/312105742_A_Systematic_Review_of_Personality_Trait_Change_Through_Intervention/links/5870f1f308ae329d621714aa.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brent_Roberts/publicati...
zw123456 10y ago
I think there are limitations to how much someone can change. The analogy I would use is physical traits, you can loose weight, or you can exercise and increase strength and so on but there are limitations. I am 59 and no matter how hard I train I am not going to be able to run a 4 minute mile but I am sure if I worked at it a little harder I could improve my running skills. Similarly, I think one can, through therapy, meditation or other types of mental fitness activities, can make improvements if they have the sufficient desire to do so, but within limits.
- usloth_wandows 10y ago
  Honesty you having that mind set will make it impossible to get the 4 minute mile, but it is possible for someone with the motivation.
- RileyKyeden 10y ago
  The problem with this perspective is you can't know your true limit until you actually reach it by trying to improve. So you might as well keep aiming a little higher.
underwater 10y ago
Ironically I saw a presentation from the phycologist mentioned in the article, Dr. Brian Little, a couple of weeks back where he said that being introverted or extroverted was fixed, which was surprising to me.
- Programmatic 10y ago
  People can and do engage with others more or less, so I don't think intro- or extroverted in that sense is fixed. But the understanding of introversion and extroversion these days tends to be more whether you gain or lose energy in general from dealing with people. I doubt that feeling drained from (not) talking to people would change very quickly in someone. There are plenty of outgoing introverts.
albertTJames 10y ago
This is a stale and old debate, personality is extremely flexible and heavily depends on environmental and social constraints, as were demonstrated by seminal social experiment studies such as those of Milgram or Zimbardo. The argument that the changes seen there are short lived can be contradicted by the fact that subjects always go back to their normal environment after the experiment. What I believe Ed Boyden would call the illusion of isolation. That is why important changes usually occur at key breaking moments in a life: change of school, leaving home, changing city/country. The social environment has far more power on the psyche than any therapy. But the social environment of an individual usually do not change, and the only real power he has on it is to willingly chose isolation, which is worst of all. http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1745691614568352 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/174569161456835... Personality disorders, on the other hand, are characterised by fixed traits of personality, rigid in time in spite of detrimental effects on the life of the subject or the life of others.
- atis 10y ago
  Serious question: why is choosing isolation "worst of all"?
  - jacobolus 10y ago
    Isolation often gets a person stuck into positive feedback loops of negative feelings (loneliness, anxiety, sadness, guilt, shame, cynicism, paranoia, listlessness, self loathing, despair, etc.), disrupted circadian rhythms from poor sleep and lack of sunshine, lack of routines and loss of time sense, lack of exercise, unhealthy diet, poor personal hygiene and cleanliness, substance abuse, financial problems, and so on. Without sources of external correction/feedback/perspective, even tiny negative thoughts can get amplified and spiral out of control, and a human can stop behaving within the range of personhood (that is, the usual social construction of normal behavior). Without any human contact, it is difficult to keep control over the focus of attention, find meaning in daily routines and projects, etc. Even trivial tasks can start to take monumental amounts of mental effort. With sufficient sensory deprivation someone can become dissociated or start hallucinating, or can fall into catatonic depression. Some people are obviously better at handling isolation than others, but it’s tough for even the strongest willed. Involuntary isolation (e.g. solitary confinement, or long-term homelessness) is a torturous experience for most people, often causing permanent emotional scars. Voluntary isolation (living as a hermit in the woods to write a novel or whatever) should not be undertaken lightly. Often people isolate themselves after some kind of severe negative shock, e.g. the death of a loved one, a bad break-up, a professional failure, etc. People experiencing strong negative emotions without any social support/comfort from family/friends can get themselves into situations that are difficult or impossible to climb back out of, especially if substance abuse is involved.
NumberCruncher 10y ago
It may be only me but I won't read any "scientific" article hiding behind pay wall and between two unserious ads like "best flashlight ever selling like crazy" and "10 fans who look like celebrities". It would be like reading life advices on the back of toilet paper.
- samblr 10y ago
  Good you pointed out - people with adblocker wouldn't notice it otherwise :)
- throw8888 10y ago
  You can try sci-hub.cc if it's a scientific paper. Works most of time.
  - NumberCruncher 10y ago
    Thanks, I will check the site out.
bkanber 10y ago
I believe that we have control over our personality. Like exercise (to change your body), changing your personality takes time and conscious effort. You need to dedicate time every day for honest self-reflection, self-awareness, meditation, reading and education in the topic, etc. There are two ways you can lose weight. Accidentally, by getting sick or stressed, for instance; and on purpose, through concerted diet and exercise. The same can happen with personality changes. It can happen accidentally, through change of environment or mental illness like depression. But doing it on purpose seems more wholesome. Losing weight on purpose is better than losing it accidentally, even though the result is the same, because those people are healthy and the others aren't. Put another way: you shouldn't have to get sick to lose weight. Everybody should spend some time daily on those mental health items above. It's exercise. Through it you can point your personality and mind in the direction you'd like it to go, and with hard work and patience you'll get there. As your mind gets healthier the less likely you are to become mentally ill. You'll avoid common issues like depression, substance abuse, anxiety and eating disorders. I think mental illness is starting to become a public health crisis. I know so few people that aren't constantly stressed due to work or school, I've seen many people fall into legitimate depression and only recover after changing their environment (ie quitting their job). It's said that half of adults experience depression at least once in their life. I bet it's more like 90%. It's like the flu. Pervasive, transmissible and contagious, with most victims recovering quickly, but a small percentage experiencing fatal cases. Now we have flu shots at every Walgreens. It's time to do the same for mental health.
unusximmortalis 10y ago
We are programable and self programable of course.
codingmyway 10y ago
When social context matters so much I wonder how they measure things like this. Just the act of getting to know a therapist will reduce anxiety and in the situation you'll be comfortable so there is little value measuring improvements under those circumstances. As soon as you step out into the real world again fears resurface. I'd say there's a market for trained therapists who will also coach people through real world stressful situations rather than just talking about them. Given the expense of doing that it would have to be in a group and the incentives right so you can trust coaches not to exploit the vulnerable. Solve that and you could have a nice franchise.

215 points by wallflower 10y ago

This isn't news to me, but I like having a handy little article that I can send to people to point to and say "See? It's not just me. Science."

cel1ne 10y ago
There's a book you might want to recommend: "The emotional life of your brain" by Richard Davidson. Written by a neuroscientist, it gives a thorough, scientifically tested framework for classifying traits of personality and changing them.
- hive_mind 10y ago
  Nice reco. Which contemplative exercise do you find most useful?
TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
I feel compelled to link to this[1] bit of writing by Yudkowsky. Science! It's not a real explanation, so much as a curiosity-stopper. You don't actually know anything more than you knew before I said the magic word. But you turn away, satisfied that nothing unusual is going on. 1. http://lesswrong.com/lw/j3/science_as_curiositystopper/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/j3/science_as_curiositystopper/
- evincarofautumn 10y ago
  I think it’s more along the lines of “I have changed my personality before, so it’s obvious to me that it can be done; however, it may not be obvious to others without some evidence that it’s a recognised phenomenon”. In that case, “Science!” is intended not to sate curiosity, but to dispel doubt—and maybe then even pique curiosity.

nxc18 10y ago

People often use "its just my personality" as an excuse for bad behavior. Intuitively I think most people know that you have control over your behavior at the very least as well as aspects of your personality. Just like any other activity, you can practice being a more considerate, or more respectful, or less neurotic personality. There is a weird meme that tech people aren't capable of being "team players" or working with other people. Maybe research will help address that perception; awkward is ok, but we shouldn't accept that techies will be dicks to people all the time.

refulgentis 10y ago
Over time, it seemed to me there was a strong correlation between the technical expertise of my co-workers and their ability to neuter anti-social behavior. To be fair, I went from poorly funded startups and contracting work to BigCo.
tw04 10y ago
I've always wondered, given this "stereotype" if there isn't more to it. Is it possible that because, in general, people who were "nerds" were likely more of a social outcast growing up, that they have essentially become "hardened", if you will, to social graces. They spent so much of their developmental years being teased/ridiculed/whatever that what is "normal" treatment of others has essentially become foreign to them? Sure, you can form a relationship with your family, but that really doesn't extend to how you interact with people outside of your inner circle. There seems to be such a strong correlation, curious if anyone has ever studied it. It seems we've gotten to the point that so very much of our adult behavior can be traced to childhood events/upbringing that this can't be an outlier.
- sametmax 10y ago
  +1. Most asocial persons I know have been raised that way by society. Now you want them to undo what took years of training. This is hard. And unfair.
  - mseebach 10y ago

steanne 10y ago

pretty typical salesmanship: if you convince people a) there's something wrong with them and b) that thing can be changed, you can sell them a cure.

idiot74 10y ago
Overly cynical comment. Article author isn't a psychologist, so has no reason to be a 'salesman'. Additionally, the question of how changeable an individual's personality is, is a perfectly valid and interesting topic to research. (Unfortunately the article does not mention the title, or provide a link to the research).
paublyrne 10y ago
Having had a short period of therapy myself, as well as having separately dated a therapist, I would say there is huge real value to that kind of work. It's not a con job. I feel your comment is a little insulting to people who undergo and benefit from therapy sessions. And unlike the Woodie Allen analyst cliche, it is not something that has no end; a short series of sessions can often be enough to help a patient make huge personal changes that improve the quality of their lives.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
If one is seeking therapy they usually do so because they are experiencing some sort of distress in their lives, thus they don't need to be convinced there is something wrong with them - they already know and presumably want to fix it.

vivekd 10y ago

Did I just miss something or did the article offer no evidence for it's position that personality can changer other than presenting some writing exercises by high schoolers that asked them if personality can change. It didn't seem to elaborate about how these exercises affected or changed their personality or present any other evidence or examples of changing personality. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that personality can change, just this article didn't seem to present a good basis for that thinking.

nommm-nommm 10y ago
They named the the journal and the issue but not the title of the meta-analysis itself. "In an analysis of 207 studies, published this month in the journal Psychological Bulletin, a team of six researchers found that personality can and does change, and by a lot, and fairly quickly. But only with a therapist’s help. (Imagine that.)" Edit: someone tracked down the original. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13452075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13452075
- jaytaylor 10y ago
  https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brent_Roberts/publication/312105742_A_Systematic_Review_of_Personality_Trait_Change_Through_Intervention/links/5870f1f308ae329d621714aa.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brent_Roberts/publicati...
visarga 10y ago
> I do believe that personality can change I don't think personality actually changes much, it just has some latent and some manifested aspects, depending on circumstance. In different circumstances it can manifest different aspects. It doesn't mean it changes, just that it can variate depending on context. It's often possible that trying to change your personality would lead to much suffering, because it's inherently difficult. I read some time ago a psychological study that applied MBTI to cult members. They were asked how they viewed their personality before, in the present and in the future. The trend was to attempt to emulate the personality type of the cult leader. Their happiness was inversely correlated to how much off-base they were attempting to be.

ajb 10y ago

Original paper: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brent_Roberts/publication/312105742_A_Systematic_Review_of_Personality_Trait_Change_Through_Intervention/links/5870f1f308ae329d621714aa.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brent_Roberts/publicati...

zw123456 10y ago

I think there are limitations to how much someone can change. The analogy I would use is physical traits, you can loose weight, or you can exercise and increase strength and so on but there are limitations. I am 59 and no matter how hard I train I am not going to be able to run a 4 minute mile but I am sure if I worked at it a little harder I could improve my running skills. Similarly, I think one can, through therapy, meditation or other types of mental fitness activities, can make improvements if they have the sufficient desire to do so, but within limits.

usloth_wandows 10y ago
Honesty you having that mind set will make it impossible to get the 4 minute mile, but it is possible for someone with the motivation.
RileyKyeden 10y ago
The problem with this perspective is you can't know your true limit until you actually reach it by trying to improve. So you might as well keep aiming a little higher.

underwater 10y ago

Ironically I saw a presentation from the phycologist mentioned in the article, Dr. Brian Little, a couple of weeks back where he said that being introverted or extroverted was fixed, which was surprising to me.

Programmatic 10y ago
People can and do engage with others more or less, so I don't think intro- or extroverted in that sense is fixed. But the understanding of introversion and extroversion these days tends to be more whether you gain or lose energy in general from dealing with people. I doubt that feeling drained from (not) talking to people would change very quickly in someone. There are plenty of outgoing introverts.

albertTJames 10y ago

This is a stale and old debate, personality is extremely flexible and heavily depends on environmental and social constraints, as were demonstrated by seminal social experiment studies such as those of Milgram or Zimbardo. The argument that the changes seen there are short lived can be contradicted by the fact that subjects always go back to their normal environment after the experiment. What I believe Ed Boyden would call the illusion of isolation. That is why important changes usually occur at key breaking moments in a life: change of school, leaving home, changing city/country. The social environment has far more power on the psyche than any therapy. But the social environment of an individual usually do not change, and the only real power he has on it is to willingly chose isolation, which is worst of all. http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1745691614568352 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/174569161456835... Personality disorders, on the other hand, are characterised by fixed traits of personality, rigid in time in spite of detrimental effects on the life of the subject or the life of others.

atis 10y ago
Serious question: why is choosing isolation "worst of all"?
- jacobolus 10y ago
  Isolation often gets a person stuck into positive feedback loops of negative feelings (loneliness, anxiety, sadness, guilt, shame, cynicism, paranoia, listlessness, self loathing, despair, etc.), disrupted circadian rhythms from poor sleep and lack of sunshine, lack of routines and loss of time sense, lack of exercise, unhealthy diet, poor personal hygiene and cleanliness, substance abuse, financial problems, and so on. Without sources of external correction/feedback/perspective, even tiny negative thoughts can get amplified and spiral out of control, and a human can stop behaving within the range of personhood (that is, the usual social construction of normal behavior). Without any human contact, it is difficult to keep control over the focus of attention, find meaning in daily routines and projects, etc. Even trivial tasks can start to take monumental amounts of mental effort. With sufficient sensory deprivation someone can become dissociated or start hallucinating, or can fall into catatonic depression. Some people are obviously better at handling isolation than others, but it’s tough for even the strongest willed. Involuntary isolation (e.g. solitary confinement, or long-term homelessness) is a torturous experience for most people, often causing permanent emotional scars. Voluntary isolation (living as a hermit in the woods to write a novel or whatever) should not be undertaken lightly. Often people isolate themselves after some kind of severe negative shock, e.g. the death of a loved one, a bad break-up, a professional failure, etc. People experiencing strong negative emotions without any social support/comfort from family/friends can get themselves into situations that are difficult or impossible to climb back out of, especially if substance abuse is involved.

NumberCruncher 10y ago

It may be only me but I won't read any "scientific" article hiding behind pay wall and between two unserious ads like "best flashlight ever selling like crazy" and "10 fans who look like celebrities". It would be like reading life advices on the back of toilet paper.

samblr 10y ago
Good you pointed out - people with adblocker wouldn't notice it otherwise :)
throw8888 10y ago
You can try sci-hub.cc if it's a scientific paper. Works most of time.
- NumberCruncher 10y ago
  Thanks, I will check the site out.

bkanber 10y ago

I believe that we have control over our personality. Like exercise (to change your body), changing your personality takes time and conscious effort. You need to dedicate time every day for honest self-reflection, self-awareness, meditation, reading and education in the topic, etc. There are two ways you can lose weight. Accidentally, by getting sick or stressed, for instance; and on purpose, through concerted diet and exercise. The same can happen with personality changes. It can happen accidentally, through change of environment or mental illness like depression. But doing it on purpose seems more wholesome. Losing weight on purpose is better than losing it accidentally, even though the result is the same, because those people are healthy and the others aren't. Put another way: you shouldn't have to get sick to lose weight. Everybody should spend some time daily on those mental health items above. It's exercise. Through it you can point your personality and mind in the direction you'd like it to go, and with hard work and patience you'll get there. As your mind gets healthier the less likely you are to become mentally ill. You'll avoid common issues like depression, substance abuse, anxiety and eating disorders. I think mental illness is starting to become a public health crisis. I know so few people that aren't constantly stressed due to work or school, I've seen many people fall into legitimate depression and only recover after changing their environment (ie quitting their job). It's said that half of adults experience depression at least once in their life. I bet it's more like 90%. It's like the flu. Pervasive, transmissible and contagious, with most victims recovering quickly, but a small percentage experiencing fatal cases. Now we have flu shots at every Walgreens. It's time to do the same for mental health.

unusximmortalis 10y ago

We are programable and self programable of course.

codingmyway 10y ago

When social context matters so much I wonder how they measure things like this. Just the act of getting to know a therapist will reduce anxiety and in the situation you'll be comfortable so there is little value measuring improvements under those circumstances. As soon as you step out into the real world again fears resurface. I'd say there's a market for trained therapists who will also coach people through real world stressful situations rather than just talking about them. Given the expense of doing that it would have to be in a group and the incentives right so you can trust coaches not to exploit the vulnerable. Solve that and you could have a nice franchise.