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A Story Of Starting A Business In Japan
- sogen 10y agoVisa cost: ¥5M Y
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- imrehg 10y agoIsn't "5M JPY investment" (45k USD) the requirement for the visa, not the cost?
- tuvistavie 10y agoYes, I don't think this is an official number though. It is almost sufficient (according to specialized lawyers) on its own but not absolutely necessary depending on the person degree, skills and plenty of other things. edit: After checking a relevant Japan ministry of justice webpage [1], 5m yen is given as an indicator, which is why I suppose it is the value given by most lawyers. [1]: http://www.moj.go.jp/nyuukokukanri/kouhou/nyukan_nyukan20.html http://www.moj.go.jp/nyuukokukanri/kouhou/nyukan_nyukan20.ht...
- mikekchar 10y agoThere is a minimum capitilisation requirement of 5M JPY to sponsor a visa. For people starting a company and coming in on a business visa (forget the actual name), you will need at least 5M JPY in your company. This is to ensure that your company has enough money to support you for a year. This amount is very much dependent upon a variety of factors, so it may be more than 5M JPY, as far as I know. The money is still held by your company and you can own the stock, so it's not like you are "spending" it.
- Cyph0n 10y agoWhat? Why would anyone migrate to Japan then? You'd think that they'd have started relaxing the requirements, given the low birthrates and shrinking labor pool.
- mantas 10y agoThey kinda don't give a shit about that birthrate and declining population thing. Instead they aim for post-labour era with robots and not much manual labour. In addition to that, they already have lots of young people who can't find solid jobs. For the last 20-ish years they economy doesn't grow. Big companies usually keep their old employees for a really long time, but don't grow. Thus youth don't have positions to fill. Importing population wouldn't help much, most of their companies are export based.
- jstandard 10y agoAs someone with close friends in Japanese government (Ministries), I can tell you they do care VERY much about about their declining birthrate and stagnant economy.
- jpatokal 10y ago...they're just unwilling to actually do anything about it. Allow immigration? Make it possible for women to have careers after childbirth? Stop funding increasingly ridiculous infrastructure boondoggles and give tax cuts to consumers instead of zaibatsu? Hire and promote based on talent, not seniority and what school you graduated from? Nope nope, it's all too muzukashii. I've been visiting Japan regularly for 20 years now. To a first approximation, nothing about the fundamentals above has changed.
- laurieg 10y agoWhat do you mean by "allow immigration"? If you have a degree and a job you can come work and live in Japan. Japanese immigration is not that restrictive. My native country, the UK, has far more hoops to jump through to get permission to work. The social changes are a much bigger challenge. If your family sees you as a bad mother for working while raising children then financial incentives and back to work schemes will only get you so far.
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- mazmaz 10y agoThis is gold
- patio11 10y agoFrom my understanding, lawyers working with non-Japanese-speaking clients charge a premium. This is true for essentially all professional services in Japan (and, relatedly, can be true for renting depending on how one goes about that), and it is not driven entirely by costs. Partly, this is simply "You require something which is much harder to deliver than standard services; this restricts your labor pool by > 98% here; deal with the increased price." Partly there exists a bit of rent-seeking behavior that might be politely termed "the English tax." You will occasionally find service providers who quote the English tax rate even when the assumption is services will not actually be provided in English. I'm generally polite when asking for the literate professional rate precisely once. (It is sometimes called out on an obvious line item on the invoice; it is often more subtle.)
- ktRolster 10y agoI'm generally polite when asking for the literate professional rate precisely once. What do you do when you need to ask more than once?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- noobermin 10y agoIsn't it the same for any foreigner in any country? The US tries to be multicultural in some respects but not being able to speak English hampers you quite a bit too.
- patio11 10y agoSuppose you are in the United States and your last name is Tanaka. You interview an accountant and ask for a proposal for bookkeeping and accounting for your software company. Suppose the accountant comes back with a proposal which quotes you including a line item for Japanese translation. (This is quite unlikely, but roll with it.) You tell the accountant "Uh, thanks, but: we'll be working together in English." "Oh yes, that's good, we don't really speak Japanese." "Why are you quoting for Japanese translation then?" "To cover our increase costs of dealing with you." "So you... expected to hire an external translator?" "Well, no, more of an aggravational cost sort of issue rather than a direct cost sort of issue." This would be cause for an absolutely nuclear reaction from the client in the US. In Japan, it's Tuesday.
- unknownsavage 10y agoI've always been interesting in doing this in Japan, this is without a doubt the best resource I've ever seen on the matter. Well done to the author, thanks for writing this up.
- grabcocque 10y agoJapan's population is expected to collapse over the next few deacades, and that population will be increasingly past retirement age. http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/03/japans-demography http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/03/japans-demogra... So you're gonna need to give serious thought to where you're planning to get employees from.
- sparkzilla 10y agoOr you could start a robotics or elder-care business...
- rpeden 10y agoYou'd probably want to combine them and run an elder-care business staffed by robots to get around the labor supply problem.
- rev 10y agoOr still yet, a robot-care business staffed by ever more populous and longer living Japanese. Because Japan!
- rpeden 10y agoOr just cut out the care part and start robotically enhancing Japanese seniors.
- gcatalfamo 10y agoOr making robots act as Japanese seniors. The sky is the limit.
- bpodgursky 10y agoThere's some evidence that much of the reason the Japanese are so "long lived" is just pension fraud by surviving relatives: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/world/asia/15japan.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/world/asia/15japan.html
- archseer 10y agoI'm currently going through the same process for a business investor visa. However, my lawyer claims that immigation office changed the requirements this december to also require at least one (can be part-time) employee (other than yourself). Apparently this is something not stated anywhere, but a whim of the immigration office... Can anyone confirm?
- patio11 10y agoIndividual regional immigration offices and the individual clerks at them have pretty substantial latitude with regards to how they interpret the regulations. Another similar issue is how much salary you need to have to "self-sponsor" one of the professional visas (which is a thing which isn't really anticipated in the written regulations per se but can be finangled out of Immigration). The amount can, depending on the whims of the examining clerk, be "3 million yen", "300k yen per month", "at least as much as a Japanese person in your line of work", "enough to not be a burden on the public purse", "at or above the average income in this prefecture", etc. (I will pause to say that if you'd trust an HN comment over the advice of your lawyer it is time to get a new lawyer.)
- archseer 10y agoMy lawyer... is very japanese-esque inflexible. No other lawyer (or friends that recently acquired the same visa) mentioned this new requirement; but the lawyer refuses to check with the immigration office.
- raleighm 10y agoSounds like you need a new lawyer.
- laurieg 10y agoThis flexibility can be a blessing or a curse. Usually it's the latter. A good immigration lawyer should know the ins and outs of your local immigration office and be able to tell you fairly confidently (not 100%) what will and won't work.
- sparkzilla 10y agoOnce thing not mentioned here is that starting a business is usually a major commitment to staying somewhere, and you may not want to be prepared to make that kind of years-long commitment to a particular place. Sure, it's all exciting at first, but you may not like it long-term. I ran a successful publishing business in Japan, which kept me interested and happy, but it was a huge challenge to get the company to the stage where we could sell and leave. Problems multiply if your business does not do well. You may be stuck with tons of debt, in a foreign country, with very little support. Start small, make sure you have customers, and grow safely.
- linkregister 10y agoI'm not sure if the author submitted this, but she should consider changing the favicon to something other than the default SquareSpace one. It can be done in the site settings.
- makx 10y agoSomething similar, with focus on exchange students: http://marui-plugin.blogspot.jp/2016/11/starting-company-as-foreign-student-in.html http://marui-plugin.blogspot.jp/2016/11/starting-company-as-...
- deeteecee 10y agolol i have to like natto to start a business there?
- mikekchar 10y agoI haven't read the whole article, but it looks interesting. A couple of pointers/tips, though: The way expenses and depreciation are handled between godo kaisha and kabushiki gaisha are different. Make sure you understand those differences before you choose your path. There are advantages and disadvantages. The absolute first thing to do before you even see a lawyer is to find a good tax accountant. If you are American (or if you are a citizen of a country with similar tax laws), it is very important to talk to someone who understands the intricacies of how the IRS works. I'm Canadian, so I don't know the details, but ownership of a foreign company can incur significant responsibilities with the IRS. The easiest way around this if you have a Japanese spouse is to have your spouse own the company. Again, see a tax accountant. Finally, if you have a Japanese spouse who is dependent on you for income, then it is incredibly useful to have them be the CEO and president of the company. Income splitting in Japan is not legal. If you hire your spouse, they have to work for the company exclusively and get paid an amount representative of their position. It turns out, though, that the president of the company has no defined salary range and no defined duties. This is exceptionally useful. In my company, my wife is both CEO and president. She has to work exclusively for the company, but I didn't really imagine that she would be very busy. As it turned out, though, even though I am fairly good at Japanese, having my wife handle all the business affairs has been incredibly useful. She can do everything twice as fast as me. Also, people we need to talk to are much more comfortable knowing that there is a Japanese person there would can navigate any language/cultural issues that might crop up. Dealing with the bank, government officials, etc, etc is just hugely easier and more efficient.
- android521 10y agoThe downside is that if your relationship goes sour, your wife owns your company.
- mikekchar 10y agoNo. She's an employee (just like me). The share holders own the company. Edit: Sorry. I think I misinterpreted what you were referring to. Yes, in the case that your spouse owns the company, they will own the company if you split. However, Japanese family law is pretty liberal when it comes to splitting assets anyway (Not entirely sure how it works for foreigners because they will get ousted from the family registry and family law will not apply to them). Basically, splitting up in Japan is tricky no matter what you do, so it is reasonable to exercise caution.
- po 10y agoIf you're reading this and are in Tokyo already you should come out to the Hacker News Tokyo reader meetup. It's a great place to find cofounders, talk shop and discuss these kinds of issues. We hold them once a month. You can sign up here and you'll get notified about the next one when it gets scheduled: https://hntokyo.doorkeeper.jp/ https://hntokyo.doorkeeper.jp/ edit If you're not in Tokyo I know there's one in kansai too: http://hnkansai.org http://hnkansai.org
- romanovtexas 10y agoI hope there's one in Fukuoka too, really miss the Tokyo meetup scene here.
- laurieg 10y agoThere's no Hacker News meetups but there are a few general programmer meetups that might be of interest to you. If you are interested come to the meetup on Wednesday nights in AIP Cafe, Daimyo.
- romanovtexas 10y agoWow, thank you so much for this; didn' t know it existed!
- hardwaresofton 10y agoThanks for posting this, had no idea there was a meetup like this.
- Sukotto 10y agoIt's a very friendly, engaging event and well worth your time. Jay and Paul are great hosts, and there's usually a nice mix of new people and regulars. A few tips: - You'll probably want to eat dinner before you go. (Drinks and light snacks are served but they're not substantial) - Wear comfortable shoes since you'll be standing on concrete most of the time - Most conversation is in English (in case you're worried it will all be Japanese) - The entry of "Super Deluxe" looks sketchy and you might feel like you're heading downstairs to some kind of creepy strip club. Don't worry! It's not.
- hardwaresofton 10y agoAs a solo founder that's currently living in japan, wanted to let everyone know that this post is long, accurate, and a good representation of what it takes to start a business in Japan. There's a lot that could be said about Japanese culture that was left out (probably for the best, brevity wise), and my path was slightly different, but this was a great read. For those here looking for good consultation as far as lawyers in japan, check out: http://www.juridique.jp/profile_en.html http://www.juridique.jp/profile_en.html They personally helped me incorporate, prices are reasonable in my experience, and their advice has been outstanding.
- agibsonccc 10y agoI'm based in Tokyo now. It took me a while to find a good immigration firm. All I can say: I moved here from SF and it has worked out quite well for me. I run an enterprise company though. Part of what got me to move here was JETRO. If you are looking to start a startup in japan, they've been very helpful for us: http://jetro.go.jp/usa/topics/companies-chosen-global-innovation-centers-subsidy-announced.html http://jetro.go.jp/usa/topics/companies-chosen-global-innova... One caveat is we're enterprise though. Consumer will be harder. We broke in to japan by hiring someone and having them help us start a subsidary. I moved here using that subsidary. It should be possible to do something similar for others.
- AdventurerSen 10y agoI ran a Wordpress shop several years ago and tried to use the subsidiary route with advice from JETRO too. While the lady was very friendly and helpful, I kept getting a 'you don't make enough money, this is a waste of time' vibe from her. If you're large enough and raking in enough money, they'd probably be more helpful.