26 ms·

Want to Build a Side Business? Just Buy Great Domain Name

232 points by eightturn 10y ago

na85 10y ago
Aren't there bidding networks for expiring domains that practically guarantee you won't get the domain unless you pay one of them?
- eightturn 10y ago
  bidding networks, yes.. those four links I included at end of article grant you access to those networks. Those sites will attempt to grab domains when they drop. Not all expiring domains truly expire, though.. some are what they call 'pre-release', and are auctioned before the drop at a selective marketplaces.. Namejet is a popular one..
vtlynch 10y ago
>I immediately gravitate towards the keyword descriptive dotCOM. It instantly exudes trust & authority Strongly disagree. As a result of this type of thinking, I find that the majority of "keyword descriptive dotCOM" domains are usually click-bait or shady content marketing. Sites like "VacuumReviews.com" are almost always full of content focused on SEO not quality, and questionable financial motivations. But I guess if the general public still likes those types of domains it shouldnt affect their value.
- eightturn 10y ago
  I can see your point of view.. What I was trying to convey - albeit poorly - was a more holistic view of the domain, ie. the domain on the side of a truck. The domain on a tablecloth. The domain on a bumpersticker. If I saw a plumber driving around Atlanta with www.AtlantaPlumber.com on his truck, #1 - it'd be easy for me to remember, and #2 it'd be a more positive than negative perception of that business.
  - solutionyogi 10y ago
    Are you the author of this post? Is there any way to contact you?
    - eightturn 10y ago
      oop.. I guess I should mentioned that I'm the author.. you can ping me on twitter if that works.. or here : )
      - pryelluw 10y ago
        Please add your twitter handle to your profile. :)
        eightturn 10y ago
        done : ) I'm a HN noob.
        jensvdh 10y ago
        xD
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    Are there plumbers in Atlanta that aren't fully booked without having nice domain names?
    - alasdair_ 10y ago
      If they are fully booked, they should be raising their prices.
  - louprado 10y ago
    This is even more important if your business uses e-mail to communicate with customers. I used to own a print business with a .net domain name. We'd often tell a new customer our e-mail address at the end of our first phone call. But too many times customers would just type .com in the e-mail address and then assume that our business has lousy service. After a few months I paid a cyber-squatter (if that is still the appropriate term) $1600 for the .com version of our name and I never regretted that decision.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  The general public no longer types domain names. They type what they want into the search box of Google or Bing. Domain names now only matter to the extent that search result ranking algorithms prioritize hits in the domain name. As for myself, I am automatically wary of domain names that do not include a known trademark, and have no plausible reason to exist (and pay its own operating expenses) aside from advertising. Without even visiting "vacuumreviews.com", I immediately presume it is operated by a vacuum cleaner company that presents false or biased reviews, to drive consumers to purchase their product. Such a site would only ever be visited by someone researching a vacuum cleaner purchase, and few would bother returning once that need has been satisfied to leave an honest review there. Guaranteed useless to click on the link. Just pick a memorable and appropriate trademark for your business, and use a non-squatted variation on that as your domain name.
  - adventured 10y ago
    > The general public no longer types domain names. I partially disagree. My opinion is that the general public has learned to type the first letter/s of a site they've previously visited, into their browser url bar. The median Pinterest user on the Web is not going to Google to get to Pinterest.com, even if a small percentage of users do so. Typing those first letters into the browser has become radically more common for the typical user than using a search engine for sites they visit regularly. The majority of Web users have long since figured out that typing into the browser reveals sites from their history.
    - conductr 10y ago
      I tend to agree with your view, or am biased because it reflects my pattern. However I would add, browsers (Chrome at least) have a bit of a dark pattern that pushes people towards a search making searches very common although not always needed/intended. For example, when I type the first 4 letters of my bank's URL, the omnibox has 3 suggestions prior to the direct bank URL even though it's a site I frequently visit and google knows that. They want me to search "BANK NAME" because then I'm more likely to click on the top link which of course is an ad.
- audleman 10y ago
  Agreed. Descriptive.dot.com domain names are the equivalent of generic cereal boxes. I want to go to Amazon for my books, not books.com. I will never go to food.com, or glutenfree.com, or anything of the like. Amy's Kitchen on the other hand sounds compelling. I trust my pets with rover.com, but dogsitting.com? No way.
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    You're putting the cart before the horse. Going by domain name is the equivalent of planting your business on the side of the highway. You're going to get a ton of traffic just based on walk-ins alone.
    - user5994461 10y ago
      To have worked at a company who had one of the most profitable domain on the planet. I confirm! Internally, we used to call it the money printer. It was so obvious that revenues were flowing because of the domain.
      - peletiah 10y ago
        Quite curious now, give us a hint!
        user5994461 10y ago
        Not allowed to disclose.
    - Whitestrake 10y ago
      What about taking the generic domain name and redirecting to a domain name for your actual brand?
      - vinceguidry 10y ago
        Unlikely to work half as well.
- pc86 10y ago
  Since when is making money a questionable financial motivation? I think it's unlikely you'll find anyone reviewing vacuum cleaners online because they love the engineering prowess exhibited by a Dyson. It's so they can make $3 off your Amazon purchase. For all the talk of side projects and acquisitions and growth hacking and SEO, HN tends to have an inherent distrust of anyone attempting to make money online by any way other than subscription SaaS.
  - accountface 10y ago
    Making money isn't a questionable motivation, it's a biased one. Just like "discount provided for an honest review" on Amazon, stuffing keywords in your URL for affiliate traffic is a very clear bias. It's shouting "I profit from traffic, so I want to get you here by all means necessary" — this is less true as algorithms become more intelligent, but it's been my experience since the advent of the internet. Now, of course — that's not always true. Some great sites have also relied on keywords and affiliate revenue... but I'd wager that a reputable site with a keyword based URL and affiliate links is a one in a million phenomenon (thenightlight.com is the best example I can think of) tl;dr As an internet user I've been trained to equate all keyword stuffing with spam. It's like "banner blindness" but for keywords.
    - deleted 10y ago
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  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    > I think it's unlikely you'll find anyone reviewing vacuum cleaners online because they love the engineering prowess exhibited by a Dyson. It's so they can make $3 off your Amazon purchase. You'd be surprised. That's what differentiates the ad-based Internet from the good old Internet "by people, for people". Personally, my way of searching for / evaluating a product is to find a legitimate (not sponsored) community around this product category and search the archives for recommendations and discussions. This makes it much easier to get real opinions and avoid various kinds of marketing. Sure, marketers have been trying to game this technique since time immemorial. That's one reason I consider them malicious actors.
- emsy 10y ago
  I think that's the Not-a-casual-user fallacy :P
- greenspot 10y ago
  I agree. Google and that concentrating on SEO brought us to a state where the Internet is full of content with descriptive domains/business names filled with content created for Google but not for the actual user. If you choose a more creative business and domain name and write good content for reals human it would still perform SEO-wise because of low bounce-rates and long duration times but experienced SEO content marketers will outperform you every time.
benmcnelly 10y ago
This is rubbish. I am (was) a serial domain buyer. Now, I guess its somewhat true that buying a domain to go with your idea can really inspire you, I have a lot of domains I let expire or still hold on to because I haven't yet or never did anything with them. I don't think its a good idea.
- eightturn 10y ago
  thanks for the feedback.. it works for some folks, not for others.. true. I wanted to simply try and shift the thinking for anyone out there dabbling. Once I saw domain names in this light, it really helped me focus and concentrate on building..
- pscsbs 10y ago
  I think calling it rubbish is a bit extreme. I am definitely motivated by purchasing a domain. Yes, not all ideas pan out but it gives me a good jolt to explore the underlying business and implementation.
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- stevekemp 10y ago
  I'm the same, I've had domains for years that I've never gotten round to using, and others that I've eventually let lapse. In all the time I've had a bunch of domains there's only been interest in one of them `spare.io`, for which I've had multiple unsolicated offers. (That despite the fact I have two forename-based domains.)
- icantdrive55 10y ago
  It become a habit for me. I did buy physibles though. Someone offered me $15,000 at the height of the 3-D printing hootenanny. Stupidly--I turned it down. I has such big plans. Now I keep it because it's such a weird word, and new people I meet remember it.
deleted 10y ago
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azdle 10y ago
Maybe it's just that I lack follow through, but I disagree. I have a horrible habit of buying domain names thinking that I have this great idea, I play with it for a day or two and then abandon it. Actually, in the spirit of this article, if anyone here is interested in any of these, let me know: addressauth.com -- Was going to be a physical address verification service using lob.com's postcard sending API. atomicthings.com -- something vaguely iot related http://blankpage.press http://blankpage.press -- a news site that only posted things that were important (but I realized that would mean I'd need to read all the news and figure out what was important). http://commn.co http://commn.co -- an inventory tracking system for DIY entheusists that allowed you to track your crap, but also see other peoples crap and trade/sell to others if you don't need it anymore. http://difftos.com http://difftos.com -- a tool to watch service's ToS for changes and easily see what actually changed. hydramatic.net -- ifttt, but for programmers (it's the name of the first automatic transmission) http://shit.land http://shit.land / http://shit.foundation http://shit.foundation -- "The Society for a Homogenous Internet of Things Foundation", an obviously dumb name for a website that I was going to setup a wiki to track IoT stuff, mostly protocols and maybe eventually something with security vulns. virga.link / http://virga.space http://virga.space -- My plans for a fully decentralized IoT 'protocol', there's actually a couple blog posts on here that lay out what I was thinking. If you have an existing project that's not in risk of dying that one of these would fit, I'll gladly give it to for free. (I just ask that if the project does die you'd give it back to me and not sell it.) Also, slightly unrelated, but since I'm listing domain names, https://knock.ninja https://knock.ninja was another one of these, but I've actually gotten myself to keep working on that on, if a bit slowly. I actually am pretty proud of coming up with that name. (Although the content on that site it pretty shit, btw. I need to come up with better ways of describing it with fewer words.)
- eightturn 10y ago
  I've found, the more I invest into a domain name, the more focused & serious I am to develop it. I tend to only buy dotCOM, as that's what the general public is most comfortable with. I've found that if you buy any gTLD, you immediately create a headwind that you're fighting against out of the gate..
hrayr 10y ago
I sometimes buy domain names on my phone, late at night, in my bed. Usually after hours of laying in bed building out a business in my mind and iterating over and over to see where it leads. Buying the domain name seems to be the last step in the processes, it helps me sleep. I look at the list of my domains every once in a while and pick ideas to work on, but sometimes I have no idea what drove me to buy them, like parttimehuman.tips
- eightturn 10y ago
  I do the opposite : ) I buy the domain, and then put myself to sleep skipping through biz avenues.. A fun tool to use for hand-reg domains (if you didn't know already) https://instantdomainsearch.com/ https://instantdomainsearch.com/
  - mezod 10y ago
    good trap tool for godaddy to get domains you are interested in
    - wavefunction 10y ago
      I use geektools, they've been around forever and I've never had any domain I've looked through there sniped away from me.
      - mezod 10y ago
        same here with gandi.net, thanks for sharing!
    - nickfromseattle 10y ago
      Do you have personal experience getting sniped with LDS? I've used it a half a dozen times and always had success.
      - officialjunk 10y ago
rcymerys 10y ago
Personally, I think of buying a domain as a form of procrastination rather than the first step of starting a business. It gives a feeling of achievement while staying in your comfort zone (seriously, it's just choosing a name and paying ten bucks, how difficult is that?). What I noticed to work is reaching out to people, telling them about your business or project and getting their interest. Getting the first clients puts more pressure on you, but also gives a huge motivation to continue working on it.
- dplgk 10y ago
  Buying a domain makes you pick a name and I think having a name helps with morale and motivation. Buying the domain also helps because you've spent some money and you have this thing there, waiting to be used.
  - eightturn 10y ago
    agree.. and I've found the more I invest, the more dedicated I am to the project.. spend little, and it just turns into, 'eh, I'll start that project next week'..
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  At my current top-side-project, I accumulated so many placeholders of "whatever I'll call it", "demain name comes here", "$DOMAIN", etc, that I had to quit coding for a while until I settled down on a name and brought it. But yes, even getting a no from a potential customer will push you much more than getting a domain.
markstos 10y ago
There are still some good domain names out there for niches. For promoting practical cycling, I bought http://familybikecamping.com http://familybikecamping.com http://bikemove.org http://bikemove.org (move you house by bike) and http://bikes-as-transportation.com/ http://bikes-as-transportation.com/
mxuribe 10y ago
I like this idea! Yeah, I could see some folks using it to get into shadier practices. But i could also see it as being a trigger/catalyst for prompting me to get into a decent-enough business that I (might be good at but) would never have gone into otherwise. I think i'll give this a try. Side note: Kudos also to the author for a lovely, and humorous writing style! (I've subscribed to your mailing list because of it!)
- eightturn 10y ago
  you're too kind.. thanks. This amazing world introduced me (a city boy) into the dude ranching industry.. it can truly open up doors for you.
k__ 10y ago
I still haven't figured out how to make money with butt.ventures
- mxuribe 10y ago
  A few ideas... * A site that posts startups that flame out spectacularly due to poor business models (models that everyone knew would never work but money was still invested, etc.). Like that F* Company site that used to exist, or whatever it used to be called. * An incubator for startups devoted to the proctology industry. (I assume that's what you would call this sub-industry of medicine.) * A p0rn site, duh. * An incubator for startups devoted to the adult industry. * A bathub company for folks with reading disabilities. (Sorry.) * A startup focused on developing the next generation hardware programming language to replace legacy ASSembly language. (Sorry, I just couldn't resist considering the expected audience here on HN ;-)
- swalsh 10y ago
  I own meatgalore.com, I thought it would be a cool idea to have a business that sold rare meats and cuts online... but never really got the supply chain worked out. We should link to each other.
  - arkitaip 10y ago
    Just set if free man. I've done so with many domains and it feels great. Maybe even too great...
    - swalsh 10y ago
      I can't, this is one of my favorites. I have a great story associated with it. I tell it a lot when i'm drunk.
  - csiegert 10y ago
    For some reason I find this not very appetizing. I would definitely not associate rare meats with it. Set it free, as the other poster suggested.
  - 10y ago
garysieling 10y ago
I built https://www.findlectures.com https://www.findlectures.com entirely without having a domain; my experience has been that having a domain too early locks you too much to the concept it references.
- yardie 10y ago
  But at the same time not having it soon enough means someone else can swoop in and keep it from you. Domains are cheap. I buy them for $10 before discounts. If the concept changes spend another $10. You'll spend far more than that trying to negotiate it back.
chrishacken 10y ago
Not to burst your bubble but I'm convinced we're moving into an era where your domain name and TLD are becoming less and less relevant. Google and Social are all that matter. Had you asked me 4 years ago if I'd ever consider building a business on .io or .co I would have laughed in your face. Now I'm building products on both of them. FWIW, I used to buy/sell domains and I think it's a terrible investment strategy now. I can't tell you how many thousands of dollars I've wasted. Unless you're able to pick up one-word / 3L .com's for very cheap and know you can easily flip them, it's just not worth it.
- eightturn 10y ago
  gotta disagree, with all due respect. But I do like the .io extension.. but confused - you say Google & Social are all that matter.. Google indexes domains. And once a user visits a domain and has a positive experience, the domain would be that much easier for them to remember. And with social, you don't own or control the content - so if they fold (or change the rules), you're up the creek.
  - chrishacken 10y ago
    > Google indexes domains Based on their content, back links, etc. > And with social, you don't own or control the content Using social to drive traffic to the content, not posting content directly on social.
  - herbst 10y ago
    The point is returning people dont remember your domain anyway. They type the first few chars of your brand and hope for a suggestion. Thats why "getbrand.com" domains are a bad idea, and tlds dont matter because costumer akquisition happens over social or backlinks anyway.
- melvinmt 10y ago
  In the context of YC, here's what pg thinks about domain names: "If you have a US startup called X and you don’t have x.com, you should probably change your name. The reason is not just that people can't find you. For companies with mobile apps, especially, having the right domain name is not as critical as it used to be for getting users. The problem with not having the .com of your name is that it signals weakness. Unless you're so big that your reputation precedes you, a marginal domain suggests you're a marginal company. Whereas (as Stripe shows) having x.com signals strength even if it has no relation to what you do." http://paulgraham.com/name.html http://paulgraham.com/name.html
gewa 10y ago
Sorry, but i really dont like the style of the article, i always feel like the author wants to tell me one little trick, doctors hate him for, which enlarges your penis by two inches.
- erikb 10y ago
  And it is exactly this kind of content, too.
intrasight 10y ago
I agree that if you think of a good domain name and it is available, then you should buy it. It's a very cheap investment. But be sure to write a super brief business plan explaining what this is for. You might forget by next year. Even if you don't end up using it, you may be pleasantly surprised (as has happened to me) that in a few years someone offers you ten or twenty thousand for it. I do not agree with the "just" buy a great domain. The domain name has very little to with the success of your business. I also, as others have said, disagree with "keyword descriptive" names. I don't think that search engines reward your for descriptive names, and they are poor choices for brand names. You want people to be able to Google your brand, and have your page come up first.
- eightturn 10y ago
  Just to be clear, this isn't an seo play.. this is a 'build a side business' play.. And no, you're right, you don't 'just' buy the domain. I'm sorta suggesting that the domain be the inspiration for the business you create.. Maybe I shoulda said 'Start with a Great Domain name'.. Your grit and hustle will determine the success of your business, not a domain. If you have a great name, though, success is a little more in reach, I feel..
  - intrasight 10y ago
    A great domain name can be a great personal motivator too.
run4yourlives2 10y ago
For the amount of money he's spending on auctioned domains, wouldn't it make more sense to find a 'related' (eg. backyardziplines.com vs ziplines.com) name and do exactly the same thing (set up a site, contact a partner, etc) and spend the thousands of dollars on advertising? Maybe it's just me, but google doesn't really put that much stock in the url itself, does it? A non-scammy site and some good lead ins will put you high in the search results regardless, no?
- eightturn 10y ago
  Author here..My focus isn't a google seo play, it's a 'build a business' play that leverages all forms of marketing.. word of mouth, bumper stickers, billboards, search, social.. A neat, easy to remember domain can do lots of good when building a brand.. Related domains can do as much harm as good.. a good article to read: https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/ https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/
baumgarn 10y ago
This is ignorant and does not help anybody. You do not create value.
- giarc 10y ago
  Like this comment?
mikejarema 10y ago
> I’m talking about viewing domain names as an asset Another way to read this, which the author indirectly touches on in his listing of expired domain auction results, is the $$$ value of the domain itself. It's kind of insurance for the situation where your side project/business either fails to materialize or goes nowhere. A solid domain should at least retain its value so you can view the perceived authority/trust as free (or a dividend) on the initial investment in the domain. This is the basis I've been using for some of the prospective side-projects I've been mulling. I've been buying some decent domains as investments both in the domains themselves and the value they would bring to my projects. Here's a specific example: I've got a few ideas related to energy, eg. a system that'll let IoT devices/smart appliances/software base decisions on the cost and environmental impact of the energy required for an application. So I bought http://energy.io http://energy.io as the eventual home for this. It carries the authority/trust that the author describes, at least as a developer-focused business, and in the worst case I'm sure I can resell it for an amount comparable to what I paid.
- eightturn 10y ago
  spot on Mike.. If your domain idea fizzles, there is still value in the domain name itself..
egfx 10y ago
I bought qkbuck.com as a compliment to my web app https://qKast.com https://qKast.com What should I put on it?
- dmoney 10y ago
  Ad-supported site where people vote on ideas for making a quick buck.
vortico 10y ago
Halfway through reading, I was going to criticize the author for lack of quantitative evidence, but he partially redeemed himself by using actual numbers in the Expired Domains section. Anyone can write an article saying "X is important!" but a business owner will not give attention unless dollar values are assigned to the importance. Still, I'd like to see some more evidence in this article than the Bobblehead case study that using keyword domains actually increases sales in that market.
- eightturn 10y ago
  author here.. all I can say regarding building businesses on keyword descriptive domains.. it just makes everything easier.. Easier to communicate your biz. Easier to get your foot in the door somewhere. Easier for introductions. Easier for consumers to remember your name (https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/ https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/). Just easier all around. All those things added together can directly impact sales..
  - vortico 10y ago
    Yes, I believe it has an effect, but I think everyone knows that valuable domains are important. But when purchasing a $200k domain, is there any quantitative method a business owner can follow so determine whether the domain will be worth 200k? Kind of off topic, but if someone has a domain as valuable as "nuts.com", why ruin it by putting a subdomain in front of it? Why isn't the URI scheme "nuts.com/blog/were-going-nuts..."? There's no significant technical reason anymore for splitting multiple services into multiple subdomains.
    - eightturn 10y ago
      Everyone has their own quantitative method.. Me personally, I simply look at how long it'd take me to pay off the domain. I like to pay them off in 1-1.5 years. So effectively, I'd need my company throwing off enough profit to pay off those domains in that time period. That rough guide keeps me on track so that I don't overpay at auction. But since most folks I compete with are speculators, and need to flip for a profit, versus me who wants to build a legit business, I can typically pay more as my profits can cover the extra expense.. And I'm with you on the subdomain on nuts.com. A really bad idea, imo.
sunseb 10y ago
In the long run, I tend to think it's better to have a good brand name rather than a descriptive domain name with keywords. We all go on amazon.com to buy books, not on bookstore.com.
- FilterSweep 10y ago
  +1 for promoting an idea that a single-noun (such as Amazon or apple) could be purchased as a domain and be worth lots of money. However, while the bottom statement is a truth, are you sure you have the cause and effect right? We buy go on amazon.com to buy books because of a plethora of other reasons that Amazon does better than a bookstore.com that comes before an affinity for the Amazon brand. This ranges from ubiquitous options to their cost-cutting operational and source efficiency to their shipping options to Amazon prime benefits.
settsu 10y ago
I've been casually interested in small time domain name "investing" (with and without intention to develop) since the early days and when it so happened that during a stint at GoDaddy, I was charged with the UX of the domain auction product, imagine my surprise to discover were a handful of very big players, some of whom ran bespoke software (not unlike a Bloomberg terminal) and were so profitable for the company that they essentially had their own in-house concierge. That certainly dampened my enthusiasm when I realized it had long since become more like commercial real estate investment than the American West land rush. Similarly illuminating was working at a regional bank and learning how much of their growth was based on investing in a patch of dirt as it was in the operation of the branch location that sat on that dirt. Made me realize how uninformed I was about business in general.
- markdown 10y ago
  > Similarly illuminating was working at a regional bank and learning how much of their growth was based on investing in a patch of dirt as it was in the operation of the branch location that sat on that dirt. Reminds me of McDonald's founder Ray Kroc's famous quote "We are in the real estate business; not the hamburger business."
  - eightturn 10y ago
    Sears has a somewhat similar story I believe..
- i4i 10y ago
  My understanding is that Godaddy employees are forbidden from buying and selling domains and have been for at least the 6 years I've been purchasing the occasional domain in their auction platform. When were you at Godaddy?
  - settsu 10y ago
    I was there 2010-11 and can't recall the specific policies. One fun thing I do remember was the internal testing system which provided for an unlimited "budget" to purchase any domain which only resolved internally. So, for example, I could register google.com on my test account. But since it only resolved internally, if I wanted something to appear at that address it had to be a GoDaddy product that functioned on that system (various website builders, etc.)
rcarrigan87 10y ago
If you're buying expired domains you'd be wise to learn a little bit about how to spot google penalties. It would suck to buy a domain where a bunch of shady SEO had been done by the previous owner. It will make ranking in google that much harder.
- eightturn 10y ago
  a fine point.. thanks for mentioning.. I'll try to point that out in the next post..
- mikejarema 10y ago
  What's the process to assess whether a domain is on the naughty list?
  - eightturn 10y ago
    something simple.. you can simply go to google and type site:domainnamedollarstore.com (example) if google returns no results = no bueno
    - mikejarema 10y ago
      Thanks... but is that the extent of it? I'm familiar with this syntax but thought that Google's punishments take the form more of a sliding scale (which diminishes general authority or prevalence for certain searches) than a binary system (good/show, bad/hide). And that simply checking the index as above wouldn't reveal too much actionable info. Eg. if a domain is categorized as having adult content.
      - eightturn 10y ago
        possibly helpful: https://www.semrush.com/blog/tell-site-hit-google-penalty/ https://www.semrush.com/blog/tell-site-hit-google-penalty/
wessorh 10y ago
wow, I've run a domain registrar since 1999. Most domain name purchases are crap, domains are not assets but for a tiny tiny fraction of the top sites. don't be a fool and give your money to a registrar. Build a business by solving problem that many folks have. After you solved a problem buy a domain to market your solution.
- eightturn 10y ago
  author here.. why not find a domain that addresses a problem? then build business around it?
  - noway421 10y ago
    What some of the posters here have pointed out is that buying a domain name early scopes your idea and limits the possibility of you adjusting the purpose/audience/main concept of the start up. Scoping is not bad per se, but starting up an idea is more of a creative process than concrete problem solving. You might not know what problem you're yet about to solve.
ThomPete 10y ago
Great domain names are not going to save most. It's going to save one depending on how great the domain name is. But figuring out what is great is as hard as figuring out what products are great.
- eightturn 10y ago
  >But figuring out what is great is as hard as figuring out what products are great. I gotta introduce you to the Google Keyword Planner..
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    I know about that it doesent really change things imo.
dmoney 10y ago
I like the idea of using expiring domain names to generate business ideas (especially domain names that are fetching a good price). But what if, instead of buying the domain name, you... didn't buy it? What if, instead of dropping $5K on an exact match, you spent $10 on a B+ domain name, where you can set up a landing page to see if there's interest in the business idea you've generated? That way, if you are getting signups, or even actual customers, then you try to get a better domain name; but if not, you're not out $5K. Or am I missing something? I guess you can still sell the domain if you don't end up doing something with it, but what if it declines in value? edit: punctuation
- eightturn 10y ago
  author here.. all I can say is, buy a B+ domain name, expect B+ results. I prefer buying an A domain (not A+, not A-), and speed the process up, whether it fails or succeeds. If it fails, eh, cost of doing business.. move on..
  - dmoney 10y ago
    > all I can say is, buy a B+ domain name, expect B+ results. Fair enough. I guess the expense could be justifiable if a good domain name really helps. I'm just wondering about quantifying the risks/costs. If it fails, you can resell it, but how often do domain names increase vs. decrease in value? Also, how often do you end up not using an expensive domain name, or find out it was a dud?
    - eightturn 10y ago
      > Also, how often do you end up not using an expensive domain name, or find out it was a dud? I use & develop every single premium dotCOM that I acquire. I dropped $26k on a domain recently, and the jury is still out whether that one's gonna be a dud.. It's always possible.
- prawn 10y ago
  "I like the idea of using expiring domain names to generate business ideas (especially domain names that are fetching a good price)." Personally, I think buying domains that seem good, and then brainstorming ideas for them is risky. You're more likely to end up with a questionable foundation ("Maybe it could be a site about dogs with funny socks?") or something outside your area of interest/expertise. IME, it's better to set your idea and then find the domain. By all means, speculate on domains and collect a few strong ones (I do), but I'd be wary of picking ideas based on the domains you can grab. You used to be able to make easy money from SEO-oriented sites based on keyphrases, but that's dried up a lot and content/concept is king again.
neoterics 10y ago
I would pick a third option: SojournBikeTours.com -There would be a high likelihood of that domain name being available as opposed to buying the KEYWORD domain from a squatter for thousands. -Having a brand or name would give it more authority and a feeling of a mom and pop store. -It is still descriptive. Not to mention that if you do decide to go through the KEYWORD domain route you will be competing with a lot of people that are scouting for KEYWORD domains to build spammy affiliate websites or if by any chance the website has some history and backlinks then you will be competing with people who want to snatch it to build PBNs.
- eightturn 10y ago
  An article I tend to share when folks consider longer or too descriptive domain names: https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/ https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/
ClayFerguson 10y ago
It speaks volumes about human psychology. The fact that sometimes all it takes is a catchy name to build a company from nothing that has not one single innovation. Just look at one of the most hilarious examples: "meundies.com" It has a cute little name that people like, so it's gaining traction. Is there anything innovative or good about the product or business model? Nope. The catchy name is all.
- slavik81 10y ago
  Probably more important than the name is that I hear countless ads for meundies. I assume they're spending a fortune on advertising.
  - ClayFerguson 10y ago
    Right, and if it was called what it is: "Online Polyester Underwear" their sales would be precisely zero units so far.
wineisfine 10y ago
Have a bunch of good domains in my portfolio and this article is just crap. Content is king, and always will be. Also, even his first example is inadequate, I would actually have chosen the Spanish sounding website, when going to Spain.
swalsh 10y ago
This feels like advice from 2010. I'm just not sure how much of it is relevant any more.
- eightturn 10y ago
  Building a business isn't relevant anymore? And finding a unique way to promote it?
cuca_de_chumbo 10y ago
Waiting to do something useful with: go0gl3.com
- biot 10y ago
  Perhaps online resources for trademark law with information on defending against claims of infringement in court?
  - cuca_de_chumbo 10y ago
    thanks for the suggestion.
Animats 10y ago
And put ads on it? That's so 2005. I really should do more with "downside.com". It had the first search engine for companies that returned financial data from SEC filings, back in 2000. But now everybody has that. The SEC data updater stopped working at the beginning of 2017 because the SEC shut down FTP access in favor of HTTP, so I either have to fix the ancient Perl code or turn that off.
knodi123 10y ago
Offers.com (at the time a record-breaking price paid for a domain name) is still getting peanuts in traffic compared to retailmenot, which has the dumbest name ever. And I'd argue offers.com has marginally superior content, except for the odd exclusive deal that retailmenot is able to swing based on their identity. But retailmenot got there first, and it hit the ground running building marketshare, and that has made all the difference.
- eightturn 10y ago
  >Offers.com (at the time a record-breaking price paid for a domain name) is still getting peanuts in traffic compared to retailmenot, which has the dumbest name ever. Is it possible to spend lots of money and build a brand on a junky domain and drive lots of traffic, yes.
diego_moita 10y ago
Wrong, very wrong. Generic names say that you are generic, not special. Al Ries[0] describes this as the "The Law of Generic": a brand dilutes itself when it tries to refer to a generic category because it doesn't distinguish itself from competition. He gives 2 examples. There was a company making biscuits that called themselves National Biscuits Company. They abbreviated that to Nabisco and became a brand. There was a company making electrical appliances that used to call themselves General Electric Company. They abbreviated that to GE and became a brand. [0] https://www.amazon.com/22-Immutable-Laws-Branding/dp/0060007737 https://www.amazon.com/22-Immutable-Laws-Branding/dp/0060007...
- eightturn 10y ago
  Tell that to Nuts.com, Diapers.com, Rover.com, Soap.com, Fabric.com, PoolTables.com....
  - zachrose 10y ago
    This is my first time hearing about all of those. The only one I remember is Pets.com.
- xapata 10y ago
  That hypothesis is difficult to falsify and therefore difficult to believe. Can you give an example company that can serve as a proxy for the counterfactual National Biscuit Company that never changed its name?
  - diego_moita 10y ago
    > Can you give an example company that can serve as a proxy for the counterfactual National Biscuit Company that never changed its name? If I could then it would be an evidence that the thesis is false. Look around, among most successful sites and companies in the world which one as a clearly generic name?
    - bildung 10y ago
zanecodes 10y ago
I made https://istodaywednesday.com https://istodaywednesday.com for the express purpose of a joke, and I have no regrets.
- duderific 10y ago
  I got a really nice chuckle out of that, thanks!
- erikb 10y ago
  in my timezone: yes
bjourne 10y ago
The exact keyword match domain name business tanked years ago when google updated their algorithms. Back then, if you had the domain freepoker.com and someone googled for "free poker" your site would get a huge ranking boost due to the domain name.
- eightturn 10y ago
  this ain't an seo play, this is a 'build a side-business' play. A keyword rich domain carries a lot of weight when you're knocking on doors, cold calling, meeting folks at conferences..
bootload 10y ago
"The next big step is combing through the 100k domains that expire every day. And creating a process to scan and filter so you don’t go cross-eyed." For me the title gives away the idea of the post. I read it. Not impressed. [0] The following line gave me the impression the writer didn't realise the value of the above statement. Want a ^potential^ business, build a tool that allows you a better way to solve the above problem. [0] read "Before the Startup" 'Game paragraph' on playing house ~ http://paulgraham.com/before.html http://paulgraham.com/before.html cf "We saw this happen so often that we made up a name for it: playing house. Eventually I realized why it was happening. The reason young founders go through the motions of starting a startup is because that's what they've been trained to do for their whole lives up to that point."
LeonB 10y ago
It's a zero sum game. You're not creating value, and you're paying rent to play the game. For most people the game is, by design, a losing one.
- eightturn 10y ago
  I think people simply like saying 'it's a zero sum game'.. So, I'm not creating value if I build a real business on a neat domain name? If I bought MilkDelivery.com and launched a nationwide milk delivery service, I'm not creating value?
erikb 10y ago
Now that we know for more than 15 years that domain names are a crappy business we are back at it? Why? I mean in the 90s it makes sense because there were still reasonable domain names not taken. But everything is taken now, despite a few creative ideas that only work for a short time. And domain names are also not as important any more since people tend to click on the first google link more often than the second, and they don't switch that pattern because the second link is dotCOM. I would say having a random string as domain name that ranks highly for certain keywords is a much better investment than a cool, creative domain name. So, why start the whole thing again? If you have money to lose, I can also give you my paypal ID and you just send it to me.
joshstrange 10y ago
Descriptive URL's like "BikeTours.com" convey the opposite to me. It's going to be swimming in ads and malware and full of BS reviews hoping for some affiliate link clicks. Also buying domain names ("great" or not) is a bad way to get started. There are a million things that need to happen to launch a side business and a domain is literally one of the least important things. You can always buy getX.com, Xapp.com, Xnow.com, etc and buy X.com when, if, you make it big. Buying domain names is fun, I used to do it regularly but it just gives a short rush where you play through different scenarios and then you forget about it until you get the notification to renew it a year later. You want to build a side business? Then build a side business. Want to fantasize? Buy a domain.
- eightturn 10y ago
  >There are a million things that need to happen to launch a side business and a domain is literally one of the least important things Different strokes, different folks.. My thought is, why not come out of the gate, guns blazing, with a killer product/service and the exact match domain of the industry.. Instantly compete with the leaders of your market. No ramp up needed.
marsrover 10y ago
This is exactly what I do. It might not be for everyone but when I find a domain that I subjectively really like, I instinctively know what I'm going to build on it.
- eightturn 10y ago
  Same here marsrover.. William Faulkner always spoke about the characters in his books, and mentioned that he doesn't decide their personalities, they do. I sorta think my domains do the same thing.. I see them, and they tend to present business opportunities for me to consider..
rawoke083600 10y ago
Sometimes they sit there as unfinished side projects and you wonder if you should just sell it ? searchlint.com (going going not gone yet ) :P
mzzter 10y ago
"...so cut out some vices and divert that cash..." GOLD
i4i 10y ago
But could we all agree that a shorter, easily spelled, 'radio-friendly' (unambiguous) .com domain can save a load on marketing costs? I work backwards from my startup ideas and check the drop daily for domains that match my keywords. It doesn't take a lot of time and occasionally I find something perfect.
deleted 10y ago
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untoreh 10y ago
until google stops marking keywords in the domain and urls as bold I won't believe domain names (and paths) matter less than page titles and contents.
77yy77yy 10y ago
I own over 50,000 domains, mostly generics or short 3-6 letter .com. Sales revenues last year was few millions US$ and we had over 20M in offers, offers which we decided to wait on. Good .Com domains aren't cheap, anything decent is over 10K and anything good is over 50K. You can always start with .Junk (that's what they really are) but when you make it, in all likelihood you'll end up upgrading to a good .Com. I know because I see it every single day.

232 points by eightturn 10y ago

na85 10y ago

Aren't there bidding networks for expiring domains that practically guarantee you won't get the domain unless you pay one of them?

eightturn 10y ago
bidding networks, yes.. those four links I included at end of article grant you access to those networks. Those sites will attempt to grab domains when they drop. Not all expiring domains truly expire, though.. some are what they call 'pre-release', and are auctioned before the drop at a selective marketplaces.. Namejet is a popular one..

vtlynch 10y ago

>I immediately gravitate towards the keyword descriptive dotCOM. It instantly exudes trust & authority Strongly disagree. As a result of this type of thinking, I find that the majority of "keyword descriptive dotCOM" domains are usually click-bait or shady content marketing. Sites like "VacuumReviews.com" are almost always full of content focused on SEO not quality, and questionable financial motivations. But I guess if the general public still likes those types of domains it shouldnt affect their value.

eightturn 10y ago
I can see your point of view.. What I was trying to convey - albeit poorly - was a more holistic view of the domain, ie. the domain on the side of a truck. The domain on a tablecloth. The domain on a bumpersticker. If I saw a plumber driving around Atlanta with www.AtlantaPlumber.com on his truck, #1 - it'd be easy for me to remember, and #2 it'd be a more positive than negative perception of that business.
- solutionyogi 10y ago
  Are you the author of this post? Is there any way to contact you?
  - eightturn 10y ago
    oop.. I guess I should mentioned that I'm the author.. you can ping me on twitter if that works.. or here : )
    - pryelluw 10y ago
      Please add your twitter handle to your profile. :)
      - eightturn 10y ago
        done : ) I'm a HN noob.
        jensvdh 10y ago
        xD
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Are there plumbers in Atlanta that aren't fully booked without having nice domain names?
  - alasdair_ 10y ago
    If they are fully booked, they should be raising their prices.
- louprado 10y ago
  This is even more important if your business uses e-mail to communicate with customers. I used to own a print business with a .net domain name. We'd often tell a new customer our e-mail address at the end of our first phone call. But too many times customers would just type .com in the e-mail address and then assume that our business has lousy service. After a few months I paid a cyber-squatter (if that is still the appropriate term) $1600 for the .com version of our name and I never regretted that decision.
logfromblammo 10y ago
The general public no longer types domain names. They type what they want into the search box of Google or Bing. Domain names now only matter to the extent that search result ranking algorithms prioritize hits in the domain name. As for myself, I am automatically wary of domain names that do not include a known trademark, and have no plausible reason to exist (and pay its own operating expenses) aside from advertising. Without even visiting "vacuumreviews.com", I immediately presume it is operated by a vacuum cleaner company that presents false or biased reviews, to drive consumers to purchase their product. Such a site would only ever be visited by someone researching a vacuum cleaner purchase, and few would bother returning once that need has been satisfied to leave an honest review there. Guaranteed useless to click on the link. Just pick a memorable and appropriate trademark for your business, and use a non-squatted variation on that as your domain name.
- adventured 10y ago
  > The general public no longer types domain names. I partially disagree. My opinion is that the general public has learned to type the first letter/s of a site they've previously visited, into their browser url bar. The median Pinterest user on the Web is not going to Google to get to Pinterest.com, even if a small percentage of users do so. Typing those first letters into the browser has become radically more common for the typical user than using a search engine for sites they visit regularly. The majority of Web users have long since figured out that typing into the browser reveals sites from their history.
  - conductr 10y ago
    I tend to agree with your view, or am biased because it reflects my pattern. However I would add, browsers (Chrome at least) have a bit of a dark pattern that pushes people towards a search making searches very common although not always needed/intended. For example, when I type the first 4 letters of my bank's URL, the omnibox has 3 suggestions prior to the direct bank URL even though it's a site I frequently visit and google knows that. They want me to search "BANK NAME" because then I'm more likely to click on the top link which of course is an ad.
audleman 10y ago
Agreed. Descriptive.dot.com domain names are the equivalent of generic cereal boxes. I want to go to Amazon for my books, not books.com. I will never go to food.com, or glutenfree.com, or anything of the like. Amy's Kitchen on the other hand sounds compelling. I trust my pets with rover.com, but dogsitting.com? No way.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  You're putting the cart before the horse. Going by domain name is the equivalent of planting your business on the side of the highway. You're going to get a ton of traffic just based on walk-ins alone.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    To have worked at a company who had one of the most profitable domain on the planet. I confirm! Internally, we used to call it the money printer. It was so obvious that revenues were flowing because of the domain.
    - peletiah 10y ago
      Quite curious now, give us a hint!
      - user5994461 10y ago
        Not allowed to disclose.
  - Whitestrake 10y ago
    What about taking the generic domain name and redirecting to a domain name for your actual brand?
    - vinceguidry 10y ago
      Unlikely to work half as well.
pc86 10y ago
Since when is making money a questionable financial motivation? I think it's unlikely you'll find anyone reviewing vacuum cleaners online because they love the engineering prowess exhibited by a Dyson. It's so they can make $3 off your Amazon purchase. For all the talk of side projects and acquisitions and growth hacking and SEO, HN tends to have an inherent distrust of anyone attempting to make money online by any way other than subscription SaaS.
- accountface 10y ago
  Making money isn't a questionable motivation, it's a biased one. Just like "discount provided for an honest review" on Amazon, stuffing keywords in your URL for affiliate traffic is a very clear bias. It's shouting "I profit from traffic, so I want to get you here by all means necessary" — this is less true as algorithms become more intelligent, but it's been my experience since the advent of the internet. Now, of course — that's not always true. Some great sites have also relied on keywords and affiliate revenue... but I'd wager that a reputable site with a keyword based URL and affiliate links is a one in a million phenomenon (thenightlight.com is the best example I can think of) tl;dr As an internet user I've been trained to equate all keyword stuffing with spam. It's like "banner blindness" but for keywords.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  > I think it's unlikely you'll find anyone reviewing vacuum cleaners online because they love the engineering prowess exhibited by a Dyson. It's so they can make $3 off your Amazon purchase. You'd be surprised. That's what differentiates the ad-based Internet from the good old Internet "by people, for people". Personally, my way of searching for / evaluating a product is to find a legitimate (not sponsored) community around this product category and search the archives for recommendations and discussions. This makes it much easier to get real opinions and avoid various kinds of marketing. Sure, marketers have been trying to game this technique since time immemorial. That's one reason I consider them malicious actors.
emsy 10y ago
I think that's the Not-a-casual-user fallacy :P
greenspot 10y ago
I agree. Google and that concentrating on SEO brought us to a state where the Internet is full of content with descriptive domains/business names filled with content created for Google but not for the actual user. If you choose a more creative business and domain name and write good content for reals human it would still perform SEO-wise because of low bounce-rates and long duration times but experienced SEO content marketers will outperform you every time.

benmcnelly 10y ago

This is rubbish. I am (was) a serial domain buyer. Now, I guess its somewhat true that buying a domain to go with your idea can really inspire you, I have a lot of domains I let expire or still hold on to because I haven't yet or never did anything with them. I don't think its a good idea.

eightturn 10y ago
thanks for the feedback.. it works for some folks, not for others.. true. I wanted to simply try and shift the thinking for anyone out there dabbling. Once I saw domain names in this light, it really helped me focus and concentrate on building..
pscsbs 10y ago
I think calling it rubbish is a bit extreme. I am definitely motivated by purchasing a domain. Yes, not all ideas pan out but it gives me a good jolt to explore the underlying business and implementation.
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stevekemp 10y ago
I'm the same, I've had domains for years that I've never gotten round to using, and others that I've eventually let lapse. In all the time I've had a bunch of domains there's only been interest in one of them `spare.io`, for which I've had multiple unsolicated offers. (That despite the fact I have two forename-based domains.)
icantdrive55 10y ago
It become a habit for me. I did buy physibles though. Someone offered me $15,000 at the height of the 3-D printing hootenanny. Stupidly--I turned it down. I has such big plans. Now I keep it because it's such a weird word, and new people I meet remember it.

deleted 10y ago

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azdle 10y ago

Maybe it's just that I lack follow through, but I disagree. I have a horrible habit of buying domain names thinking that I have this great idea, I play with it for a day or two and then abandon it. Actually, in the spirit of this article, if anyone here is interested in any of these, let me know: addressauth.com -- Was going to be a physical address verification service using lob.com's postcard sending API. atomicthings.com -- something vaguely iot related http://blankpage.press http://blankpage.press -- a news site that only posted things that were important (but I realized that would mean I'd need to read all the news and figure out what was important). http://commn.co http://commn.co -- an inventory tracking system for DIY entheusists that allowed you to track your crap, but also see other peoples crap and trade/sell to others if you don't need it anymore. http://difftos.com http://difftos.com -- a tool to watch service's ToS for changes and easily see what actually changed. hydramatic.net -- ifttt, but for programmers (it's the name of the first automatic transmission) http://shit.land http://shit.land / http://shit.foundation http://shit.foundation -- "The Society for a Homogenous Internet of Things Foundation", an obviously dumb name for a website that I was going to setup a wiki to track IoT stuff, mostly protocols and maybe eventually something with security vulns. virga.link / http://virga.space http://virga.space -- My plans for a fully decentralized IoT 'protocol', there's actually a couple blog posts on here that lay out what I was thinking. If you have an existing project that's not in risk of dying that one of these would fit, I'll gladly give it to for free. (I just ask that if the project does die you'd give it back to me and not sell it.) Also, slightly unrelated, but since I'm listing domain names, https://knock.ninja https://knock.ninja was another one of these, but I've actually gotten myself to keep working on that on, if a bit slowly. I actually am pretty proud of coming up with that name. (Although the content on that site it pretty shit, btw. I need to come up with better ways of describing it with fewer words.)

eightturn 10y ago
I've found, the more I invest into a domain name, the more focused & serious I am to develop it. I tend to only buy dotCOM, as that's what the general public is most comfortable with. I've found that if you buy any gTLD, you immediately create a headwind that you're fighting against out of the gate..

hrayr 10y ago

I sometimes buy domain names on my phone, late at night, in my bed. Usually after hours of laying in bed building out a business in my mind and iterating over and over to see where it leads. Buying the domain name seems to be the last step in the processes, it helps me sleep. I look at the list of my domains every once in a while and pick ideas to work on, but sometimes I have no idea what drove me to buy them, like parttimehuman.tips

eightturn 10y ago
I do the opposite : ) I buy the domain, and then put myself to sleep skipping through biz avenues.. A fun tool to use for hand-reg domains (if you didn't know already) https://instantdomainsearch.com/ https://instantdomainsearch.com/
- mezod 10y ago
  good trap tool for godaddy to get domains you are interested in
  - wavefunction 10y ago
    I use geektools, they've been around forever and I've never had any domain I've looked through there sniped away from me.
    - mezod 10y ago
      same here with gandi.net, thanks for sharing!
  - nickfromseattle 10y ago
    Do you have personal experience getting sniped with LDS? I've used it a half a dozen times and always had success.
    - officialjunk 10y ago

rcymerys 10y ago

Personally, I think of buying a domain as a form of procrastination rather than the first step of starting a business. It gives a feeling of achievement while staying in your comfort zone (seriously, it's just choosing a name and paying ten bucks, how difficult is that?). What I noticed to work is reaching out to people, telling them about your business or project and getting their interest. Getting the first clients puts more pressure on you, but also gives a huge motivation to continue working on it.

dplgk 10y ago
Buying a domain makes you pick a name and I think having a name helps with morale and motivation. Buying the domain also helps because you've spent some money and you have this thing there, waiting to be used.
- eightturn 10y ago
  agree.. and I've found the more I invest, the more dedicated I am to the project.. spend little, and it just turns into, 'eh, I'll start that project next week'..
marcosdumay 10y ago
At my current top-side-project, I accumulated so many placeholders of "whatever I'll call it", "demain name comes here", "$DOMAIN", etc, that I had to quit coding for a while until I settled down on a name and brought it. But yes, even getting a no from a potential customer will push you much more than getting a domain.

markstos 10y ago

There are still some good domain names out there for niches. For promoting practical cycling, I bought http://familybikecamping.com http://familybikecamping.com http://bikemove.org http://bikemove.org (move you house by bike) and http://bikes-as-transportation.com/ http://bikes-as-transportation.com/

mxuribe 10y ago

I like this idea! Yeah, I could see some folks using it to get into shadier practices. But i could also see it as being a trigger/catalyst for prompting me to get into a decent-enough business that I (might be good at but) would never have gone into otherwise. I think i'll give this a try. Side note: Kudos also to the author for a lovely, and humorous writing style! (I've subscribed to your mailing list because of it!)

eightturn 10y ago
you're too kind.. thanks. This amazing world introduced me (a city boy) into the dude ranching industry.. it can truly open up doors for you.

k__ 10y ago

I still haven't figured out how to make money with butt.ventures

mxuribe 10y ago
A few ideas... * A site that posts startups that flame out spectacularly due to poor business models (models that everyone knew would never work but money was still invested, etc.). Like that F* Company site that used to exist, or whatever it used to be called. * An incubator for startups devoted to the proctology industry. (I assume that's what you would call this sub-industry of medicine.) * A p0rn site, duh. * An incubator for startups devoted to the adult industry. * A bathub company for folks with reading disabilities. (Sorry.) * A startup focused on developing the next generation hardware programming language to replace legacy ASSembly language. (Sorry, I just couldn't resist considering the expected audience here on HN ;-)
swalsh 10y ago
I own meatgalore.com, I thought it would be a cool idea to have a business that sold rare meats and cuts online... but never really got the supply chain worked out. We should link to each other.
- arkitaip 10y ago
  Just set if free man. I've done so with many domains and it feels great. Maybe even too great...
  - swalsh 10y ago
    I can't, this is one of my favorites. I have a great story associated with it. I tell it a lot when i'm drunk.
- csiegert 10y ago
  For some reason I find this not very appetizing. I would definitely not associate rare meats with it. Set it free, as the other poster suggested.
- 10y ago

garysieling 10y ago

I built https://www.findlectures.com https://www.findlectures.com entirely without having a domain; my experience has been that having a domain too early locks you too much to the concept it references.

yardie 10y ago
But at the same time not having it soon enough means someone else can swoop in and keep it from you. Domains are cheap. I buy them for $10 before discounts. If the concept changes spend another $10. You'll spend far more than that trying to negotiate it back.

chrishacken 10y ago

Not to burst your bubble but I'm convinced we're moving into an era where your domain name and TLD are becoming less and less relevant. Google and Social are all that matter. Had you asked me 4 years ago if I'd ever consider building a business on .io or .co I would have laughed in your face. Now I'm building products on both of them. FWIW, I used to buy/sell domains and I think it's a terrible investment strategy now. I can't tell you how many thousands of dollars I've wasted. Unless you're able to pick up one-word / 3L .com's for very cheap and know you can easily flip them, it's just not worth it.

eightturn 10y ago
gotta disagree, with all due respect. But I do like the .io extension.. but confused - you say Google & Social are all that matter.. Google indexes domains. And once a user visits a domain and has a positive experience, the domain would be that much easier for them to remember. And with social, you don't own or control the content - so if they fold (or change the rules), you're up the creek.
- chrishacken 10y ago
  > Google indexes domains Based on their content, back links, etc. > And with social, you don't own or control the content Using social to drive traffic to the content, not posting content directly on social.
- herbst 10y ago
  The point is returning people dont remember your domain anyway. They type the first few chars of your brand and hope for a suggestion. Thats why "getbrand.com" domains are a bad idea, and tlds dont matter because costumer akquisition happens over social or backlinks anyway.
melvinmt 10y ago
In the context of YC, here's what pg thinks about domain names: "If you have a US startup called X and you don’t have x.com, you should probably change your name. The reason is not just that people can't find you. For companies with mobile apps, especially, having the right domain name is not as critical as it used to be for getting users. The problem with not having the .com of your name is that it signals weakness. Unless you're so big that your reputation precedes you, a marginal domain suggests you're a marginal company. Whereas (as Stripe shows) having x.com signals strength even if it has no relation to what you do." http://paulgraham.com/name.html http://paulgraham.com/name.html

gewa 10y ago

Sorry, but i really dont like the style of the article, i always feel like the author wants to tell me one little trick, doctors hate him for, which enlarges your penis by two inches.

erikb 10y ago
And it is exactly this kind of content, too.

intrasight 10y ago

I agree that if you think of a good domain name and it is available, then you should buy it. It's a very cheap investment. But be sure to write a super brief business plan explaining what this is for. You might forget by next year. Even if you don't end up using it, you may be pleasantly surprised (as has happened to me) that in a few years someone offers you ten or twenty thousand for it. I do not agree with the "just" buy a great domain. The domain name has very little to with the success of your business. I also, as others have said, disagree with "keyword descriptive" names. I don't think that search engines reward your for descriptive names, and they are poor choices for brand names. You want people to be able to Google your brand, and have your page come up first.

eightturn 10y ago
Just to be clear, this isn't an seo play.. this is a 'build a side business' play.. And no, you're right, you don't 'just' buy the domain. I'm sorta suggesting that the domain be the inspiration for the business you create.. Maybe I shoulda said 'Start with a Great Domain name'.. Your grit and hustle will determine the success of your business, not a domain. If you have a great name, though, success is a little more in reach, I feel..
- intrasight 10y ago
  A great domain name can be a great personal motivator too.

run4yourlives2 10y ago

For the amount of money he's spending on auctioned domains, wouldn't it make more sense to find a 'related' (eg. backyardziplines.com vs ziplines.com) name and do exactly the same thing (set up a site, contact a partner, etc) and spend the thousands of dollars on advertising? Maybe it's just me, but google doesn't really put that much stock in the url itself, does it? A non-scammy site and some good lead ins will put you high in the search results regardless, no?

eightturn 10y ago
Author here..My focus isn't a google seo play, it's a 'build a business' play that leverages all forms of marketing.. word of mouth, bumper stickers, billboards, search, social.. A neat, easy to remember domain can do lots of good when building a brand.. Related domains can do as much harm as good.. a good article to read: https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/ https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/

baumgarn 10y ago

This is ignorant and does not help anybody. You do not create value.

giarc 10y ago
Like this comment?

mikejarema 10y ago

> I’m talking about viewing domain names as an asset Another way to read this, which the author indirectly touches on in his listing of expired domain auction results, is the $$$ value of the domain itself. It's kind of insurance for the situation where your side project/business either fails to materialize or goes nowhere. A solid domain should at least retain its value so you can view the perceived authority/trust as free (or a dividend) on the initial investment in the domain. This is the basis I've been using for some of the prospective side-projects I've been mulling. I've been buying some decent domains as investments both in the domains themselves and the value they would bring to my projects. Here's a specific example: I've got a few ideas related to energy, eg. a system that'll let IoT devices/smart appliances/software base decisions on the cost and environmental impact of the energy required for an application. So I bought http://energy.io http://energy.io as the eventual home for this. It carries the authority/trust that the author describes, at least as a developer-focused business, and in the worst case I'm sure I can resell it for an amount comparable to what I paid.

eightturn 10y ago
spot on Mike.. If your domain idea fizzles, there is still value in the domain name itself..

egfx 10y ago

I bought qkbuck.com as a compliment to my web app https://qKast.com https://qKast.com What should I put on it?

dmoney 10y ago
Ad-supported site where people vote on ideas for making a quick buck.

vortico 10y ago

Halfway through reading, I was going to criticize the author for lack of quantitative evidence, but he partially redeemed himself by using actual numbers in the Expired Domains section. Anyone can write an article saying "X is important!" but a business owner will not give attention unless dollar values are assigned to the importance. Still, I'd like to see some more evidence in this article than the Bobblehead case study that using keyword domains actually increases sales in that market.

eightturn 10y ago
author here.. all I can say regarding building businesses on keyword descriptive domains.. it just makes everything easier.. Easier to communicate your biz. Easier to get your foot in the door somewhere. Easier for introductions. Easier for consumers to remember your name (https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/ https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/). Just easier all around. All those things added together can directly impact sales..
- vortico 10y ago
  Yes, I believe it has an effect, but I think everyone knows that valuable domains are important. But when purchasing a $200k domain, is there any quantitative method a business owner can follow so determine whether the domain will be worth 200k? Kind of off topic, but if someone has a domain as valuable as "nuts.com", why ruin it by putting a subdomain in front of it? Why isn't the URI scheme "nuts.com/blog/were-going-nuts..."? There's no significant technical reason anymore for splitting multiple services into multiple subdomains.
  - eightturn 10y ago
    Everyone has their own quantitative method.. Me personally, I simply look at how long it'd take me to pay off the domain. I like to pay them off in 1-1.5 years. So effectively, I'd need my company throwing off enough profit to pay off those domains in that time period. That rough guide keeps me on track so that I don't overpay at auction. But since most folks I compete with are speculators, and need to flip for a profit, versus me who wants to build a legit business, I can typically pay more as my profits can cover the extra expense.. And I'm with you on the subdomain on nuts.com. A really bad idea, imo.

sunseb 10y ago

In the long run, I tend to think it's better to have a good brand name rather than a descriptive domain name with keywords. We all go on amazon.com to buy books, not on bookstore.com.

FilterSweep 10y ago
+1 for promoting an idea that a single-noun (such as Amazon or apple) could be purchased as a domain and be worth lots of money. However, while the bottom statement is a truth, are you sure you have the cause and effect right? We buy go on amazon.com to buy books because of a plethora of other reasons that Amazon does better than a bookstore.com that comes before an affinity for the Amazon brand. This ranges from ubiquitous options to their cost-cutting operational and source efficiency to their shipping options to Amazon prime benefits.

settsu 10y ago

I've been casually interested in small time domain name "investing" (with and without intention to develop) since the early days and when it so happened that during a stint at GoDaddy, I was charged with the UX of the domain auction product, imagine my surprise to discover were a handful of very big players, some of whom ran bespoke software (not unlike a Bloomberg terminal) and were so profitable for the company that they essentially had their own in-house concierge. That certainly dampened my enthusiasm when I realized it had long since become more like commercial real estate investment than the American West land rush. Similarly illuminating was working at a regional bank and learning how much of their growth was based on investing in a patch of dirt as it was in the operation of the branch location that sat on that dirt. Made me realize how uninformed I was about business in general.

markdown 10y ago
> Similarly illuminating was working at a regional bank and learning how much of their growth was based on investing in a patch of dirt as it was in the operation of the branch location that sat on that dirt. Reminds me of McDonald's founder Ray Kroc's famous quote "We are in the real estate business; not the hamburger business."
- eightturn 10y ago
  Sears has a somewhat similar story I believe..
i4i 10y ago
My understanding is that Godaddy employees are forbidden from buying and selling domains and have been for at least the 6 years I've been purchasing the occasional domain in their auction platform. When were you at Godaddy?
- settsu 10y ago
  I was there 2010-11 and can't recall the specific policies. One fun thing I do remember was the internal testing system which provided for an unlimited "budget" to purchase any domain which only resolved internally. So, for example, I could register google.com on my test account. But since it only resolved internally, if I wanted something to appear at that address it had to be a GoDaddy product that functioned on that system (various website builders, etc.)

rcarrigan87 10y ago

If you're buying expired domains you'd be wise to learn a little bit about how to spot google penalties. It would suck to buy a domain where a bunch of shady SEO had been done by the previous owner. It will make ranking in google that much harder.

eightturn 10y ago
a fine point.. thanks for mentioning.. I'll try to point that out in the next post..
mikejarema 10y ago
What's the process to assess whether a domain is on the naughty list?
- eightturn 10y ago
  something simple.. you can simply go to google and type site:domainnamedollarstore.com (example) if google returns no results = no bueno
  - mikejarema 10y ago
    Thanks... but is that the extent of it? I'm familiar with this syntax but thought that Google's punishments take the form more of a sliding scale (which diminishes general authority or prevalence for certain searches) than a binary system (good/show, bad/hide). And that simply checking the index as above wouldn't reveal too much actionable info. Eg. if a domain is categorized as having adult content.
    - eightturn 10y ago
      possibly helpful: https://www.semrush.com/blog/tell-site-hit-google-penalty/ https://www.semrush.com/blog/tell-site-hit-google-penalty/

wessorh 10y ago

wow, I've run a domain registrar since 1999. Most domain name purchases are crap, domains are not assets but for a tiny tiny fraction of the top sites. don't be a fool and give your money to a registrar. Build a business by solving problem that many folks have. After you solved a problem buy a domain to market your solution.

eightturn 10y ago
author here.. why not find a domain that addresses a problem? then build business around it?
- noway421 10y ago
  What some of the posters here have pointed out is that buying a domain name early scopes your idea and limits the possibility of you adjusting the purpose/audience/main concept of the start up. Scoping is not bad per se, but starting up an idea is more of a creative process than concrete problem solving. You might not know what problem you're yet about to solve.

ThomPete 10y ago

Great domain names are not going to save most. It's going to save one depending on how great the domain name is. But figuring out what is great is as hard as figuring out what products are great.

eightturn 10y ago
>But figuring out what is great is as hard as figuring out what products are great. I gotta introduce you to the Google Keyword Planner..
- ThomPete 10y ago
  I know about that it doesent really change things imo.

dmoney 10y ago

I like the idea of using expiring domain names to generate business ideas (especially domain names that are fetching a good price). But what if, instead of buying the domain name, you... didn't buy it? What if, instead of dropping $5K on an exact match, you spent $10 on a B+ domain name, where you can set up a landing page to see if there's interest in the business idea you've generated? That way, if you are getting signups, or even actual customers, then you try to get a better domain name; but if not, you're not out $5K. Or am I missing something? I guess you can still sell the domain if you don't end up doing something with it, but what if it declines in value? edit: punctuation

eightturn 10y ago
author here.. all I can say is, buy a B+ domain name, expect B+ results. I prefer buying an A domain (not A+, not A-), and speed the process up, whether it fails or succeeds. If it fails, eh, cost of doing business.. move on..
- dmoney 10y ago
  > all I can say is, buy a B+ domain name, expect B+ results. Fair enough. I guess the expense could be justifiable if a good domain name really helps. I'm just wondering about quantifying the risks/costs. If it fails, you can resell it, but how often do domain names increase vs. decrease in value? Also, how often do you end up not using an expensive domain name, or find out it was a dud?
  - eightturn 10y ago
    > Also, how often do you end up not using an expensive domain name, or find out it was a dud? I use & develop every single premium dotCOM that I acquire. I dropped $26k on a domain recently, and the jury is still out whether that one's gonna be a dud.. It's always possible.
prawn 10y ago
"I like the idea of using expiring domain names to generate business ideas (especially domain names that are fetching a good price)." Personally, I think buying domains that seem good, and then brainstorming ideas for them is risky. You're more likely to end up with a questionable foundation ("Maybe it could be a site about dogs with funny socks?") or something outside your area of interest/expertise. IME, it's better to set your idea and then find the domain. By all means, speculate on domains and collect a few strong ones (I do), but I'd be wary of picking ideas based on the domains you can grab. You used to be able to make easy money from SEO-oriented sites based on keyphrases, but that's dried up a lot and content/concept is king again.

neoterics 10y ago

I would pick a third option: SojournBikeTours.com -There would be a high likelihood of that domain name being available as opposed to buying the KEYWORD domain from a squatter for thousands. -Having a brand or name would give it more authority and a feeling of a mom and pop store. -It is still descriptive. Not to mention that if you do decide to go through the KEYWORD domain route you will be competing with a lot of people that are scouting for KEYWORD domains to build spammy affiliate websites or if by any chance the website has some history and backlinks then you will be competing with people who want to snatch it to build PBNs.

eightturn 10y ago
An article I tend to share when folks consider longer or too descriptive domain names: https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/ https://blog.nuts.com/were-going-nuts-dot-com/

ClayFerguson 10y ago

It speaks volumes about human psychology. The fact that sometimes all it takes is a catchy name to build a company from nothing that has not one single innovation. Just look at one of the most hilarious examples: "meundies.com" It has a cute little name that people like, so it's gaining traction. Is there anything innovative or good about the product or business model? Nope. The catchy name is all.

slavik81 10y ago
Probably more important than the name is that I hear countless ads for meundies. I assume they're spending a fortune on advertising.
- ClayFerguson 10y ago
  Right, and if it was called what it is: "Online Polyester Underwear" their sales would be precisely zero units so far.

wineisfine 10y ago

Have a bunch of good domains in my portfolio and this article is just crap. Content is king, and always will be. Also, even his first example is inadequate, I would actually have chosen the Spanish sounding website, when going to Spain.

swalsh 10y ago

This feels like advice from 2010. I'm just not sure how much of it is relevant any more.

eightturn 10y ago
Building a business isn't relevant anymore? And finding a unique way to promote it?

cuca_de_chumbo 10y ago

Waiting to do something useful with: go0gl3.com

biot 10y ago
Perhaps online resources for trademark law with information on defending against claims of infringement in court?
- cuca_de_chumbo 10y ago
  thanks for the suggestion.

Animats 10y ago

And put ads on it? That's so 2005. I really should do more with "downside.com". It had the first search engine for companies that returned financial data from SEC filings, back in 2000. But now everybody has that. The SEC data updater stopped working at the beginning of 2017 because the SEC shut down FTP access in favor of HTTP, so I either have to fix the ancient Perl code or turn that off.

knodi123 10y ago

Offers.com (at the time a record-breaking price paid for a domain name) is still getting peanuts in traffic compared to retailmenot, which has the dumbest name ever. And I'd argue offers.com has marginally superior content, except for the odd exclusive deal that retailmenot is able to swing based on their identity. But retailmenot got there first, and it hit the ground running building marketshare, and that has made all the difference.

eightturn 10y ago
>Offers.com (at the time a record-breaking price paid for a domain name) is still getting peanuts in traffic compared to retailmenot, which has the dumbest name ever. Is it possible to spend lots of money and build a brand on a junky domain and drive lots of traffic, yes.

diego_moita 10y ago

Wrong, very wrong. Generic names say that you are generic, not special. Al Ries[0] describes this as the "The Law of Generic": a brand dilutes itself when it tries to refer to a generic category because it doesn't distinguish itself from competition. He gives 2 examples. There was a company making biscuits that called themselves National Biscuits Company. They abbreviated that to Nabisco and became a brand. There was a company making electrical appliances that used to call themselves General Electric Company. They abbreviated that to GE and became a brand. [0] https://www.amazon.com/22-Immutable-Laws-Branding/dp/0060007737 https://www.amazon.com/22-Immutable-Laws-Branding/dp/0060007...

eightturn 10y ago
Tell that to Nuts.com, Diapers.com, Rover.com, Soap.com, Fabric.com, PoolTables.com....
- zachrose 10y ago
  This is my first time hearing about all of those. The only one I remember is Pets.com.
xapata 10y ago
That hypothesis is difficult to falsify and therefore difficult to believe. Can you give an example company that can serve as a proxy for the counterfactual National Biscuit Company that never changed its name?
- diego_moita 10y ago
  > Can you give an example company that can serve as a proxy for the counterfactual National Biscuit Company that never changed its name? If I could then it would be an evidence that the thesis is false. Look around, among most successful sites and companies in the world which one as a clearly generic name?
  - bildung 10y ago

zanecodes 10y ago

I made https://istodaywednesday.com https://istodaywednesday.com for the express purpose of a joke, and I have no regrets.

duderific 10y ago
I got a really nice chuckle out of that, thanks!
erikb 10y ago
in my timezone: yes

bjourne 10y ago

The exact keyword match domain name business tanked years ago when google updated their algorithms. Back then, if you had the domain freepoker.com and someone googled for "free poker" your site would get a huge ranking boost due to the domain name.

eightturn 10y ago
this ain't an seo play, this is a 'build a side-business' play. A keyword rich domain carries a lot of weight when you're knocking on doors, cold calling, meeting folks at conferences..

bootload 10y ago

"The next big step is combing through the 100k domains that expire every day. And creating a process to scan and filter so you don’t go cross-eyed." For me the title gives away the idea of the post. I read it. Not impressed. [0] The following line gave me the impression the writer didn't realise the value of the above statement. Want a ^potential^ business, build a tool that allows you a better way to solve the above problem. [0] read "Before the Startup" 'Game paragraph' on playing house ~ http://paulgraham.com/before.html http://paulgraham.com/before.html cf "We saw this happen so often that we made up a name for it: playing house. Eventually I realized why it was happening. The reason young founders go through the motions of starting a startup is because that's what they've been trained to do for their whole lives up to that point."

LeonB 10y ago

It's a zero sum game. You're not creating value, and you're paying rent to play the game. For most people the game is, by design, a losing one.

eightturn 10y ago
I think people simply like saying 'it's a zero sum game'.. So, I'm not creating value if I build a real business on a neat domain name? If I bought MilkDelivery.com and launched a nationwide milk delivery service, I'm not creating value?

erikb 10y ago

Now that we know for more than 15 years that domain names are a crappy business we are back at it? Why? I mean in the 90s it makes sense because there were still reasonable domain names not taken. But everything is taken now, despite a few creative ideas that only work for a short time. And domain names are also not as important any more since people tend to click on the first google link more often than the second, and they don't switch that pattern because the second link is dotCOM. I would say having a random string as domain name that ranks highly for certain keywords is a much better investment than a cool, creative domain name. So, why start the whole thing again? If you have money to lose, I can also give you my paypal ID and you just send it to me.

joshstrange 10y ago

Descriptive URL's like "BikeTours.com" convey the opposite to me. It's going to be swimming in ads and malware and full of BS reviews hoping for some affiliate link clicks. Also buying domain names ("great" or not) is a bad way to get started. There are a million things that need to happen to launch a side business and a domain is literally one of the least important things. You can always buy getX.com, Xapp.com, Xnow.com, etc and buy X.com when, if, you make it big. Buying domain names is fun, I used to do it regularly but it just gives a short rush where you play through different scenarios and then you forget about it until you get the notification to renew it a year later. You want to build a side business? Then build a side business. Want to fantasize? Buy a domain.

eightturn 10y ago
>There are a million things that need to happen to launch a side business and a domain is literally one of the least important things Different strokes, different folks.. My thought is, why not come out of the gate, guns blazing, with a killer product/service and the exact match domain of the industry.. Instantly compete with the leaders of your market. No ramp up needed.

marsrover 10y ago

This is exactly what I do. It might not be for everyone but when I find a domain that I subjectively really like, I instinctively know what I'm going to build on it.

eightturn 10y ago
Same here marsrover.. William Faulkner always spoke about the characters in his books, and mentioned that he doesn't decide their personalities, they do. I sorta think my domains do the same thing.. I see them, and they tend to present business opportunities for me to consider..

rawoke083600 10y ago

Sometimes they sit there as unfinished side projects and you wonder if you should just sell it ? searchlint.com (going going not gone yet ) :P

mzzter 10y ago

"...so cut out some vices and divert that cash..." GOLD

i4i 10y ago

But could we all agree that a shorter, easily spelled, 'radio-friendly' (unambiguous) .com domain can save a load on marketing costs? I work backwards from my startup ideas and check the drop daily for domains that match my keywords. It doesn't take a lot of time and occasionally I find something perfect.

deleted 10y ago

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untoreh 10y ago

until google stops marking keywords in the domain and urls as bold I won't believe domain names (and paths) matter less than page titles and contents.

77yy77yy 10y ago

I own over 50,000 domains, mostly generics or short 3-6 letter .com. Sales revenues last year was few millions US$ and we had over 20M in offers, offers which we decided to wait on. Good .Com domains aren't cheap, anything decent is over 10K and anything good is over 50K. You can always start with .Junk (that's what they really are) but when you make it, in all likelihood you'll end up upgrading to a good .Com. I know because I see it every single day.