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The war on drugs is probably one of the biggest crime against humanity since WW2 with millions of deaths, millions in prisons, and trillions of dollars and huma

The war on drugs is probably one of the biggest crime against humanity since WW2 with millions of deaths, millions in prisons, and trillions of dollars and human resources wasted, mostly affecting the poor and minorities everywhere. This needs to stop. Sadly, it looks like it will go on for a few more decades.

guard-of-terra 10y ago
What's funniest, USA created War on Drugs to tackle their internal purposes, but the rest of the world adopted it anyway (including the wrong side of Iron Curtain)
- Vosporos 10y ago
  Yeah, so they could target communists, black panthers and pacifists :/
  - mistermann 10y ago
    Afaik, countries are often required to (sometimes "unofficially") comply with a variety of US "customs" before various deals (trade, etc) will be signed. I completely believe that to control the world, you must control people's minds, and to control people's minds, you must control drugs.
  - jchendy 10y ago
    Just in case anybody doesn't believe you: http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richa...
    - pandaman 10y ago
      Just in case somebody believes you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Egypt#Ottoman_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Egypt#Ottoman_peri... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Opium_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Opium_Convention There are also references of the ban in Turkey and Greece in 1890 everywhere but without good sources. The above should be enough to realize that that different nations made various drugs illegal without the US influence and without intention to oppress black panthers and communists.
- ggame 10y ago
  America intentionally exported the War on Drugs. It would sanction and threaten to invade those who didn't want to join. Which is the height of hypocrisy given the CIAs involvement in facilitating the drug trade. A good example is what happened with Noriega in Panama. A cynical person may think that that the modern war on drugs is intended to increase profits for the CIA for things that they couldn't ask the tax payers for. An extra cynical person may think that the CIA has found a new and much cleaner way of raising money via the tech startup industry. But you'd have to be pretty cynical to believe that.
  - intended 10y ago
    Cannabis played (plays) a part in Hindu rituals/festivals - Bhaang in holi comes to mind. Guess which country has rules to bend to the war on terror?
- fsloth 10y ago
  Actually drug laws have been used weapons in class warfare before US. While US policies are an obvious example in this continuum, it's not the first example.
  - philipov 10y ago
    The opium trade to China is a good prior example. []: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China
- r00fus 10y ago
  That's because a "war against $condition" is a useful way to manufacture consent. All you need is a compliant media and lots of Money to be made to corrupt enough legislators....
pizza 10y ago
and so much needless tension between close individuals on both sides of the 'divide'..
caub 10y ago
the cigarettes fumes has definitely killed, shortened lives, harmed the most innocent persons (not just the smokers themselves) not accepting that is like negationism, like believing in creationism, being completely ignorant and irresponsible
hasenj 10y ago
Really? I have a very deep suspicion that drugs destroy society by making a majority of people lethargic and unmotivated to do anything in real life. A case could be made for exceptions here and there (like the child in this article) but I don't think it works so well in society.
- throwaway729 10y ago
  > by making a majority of people lethargic and unmotivated to do anything in real life. Almost all of the drug users I know are highly motivated and very successful people. Even if you include illegal drugs. Perhaps this is just selection bias at work, but that knife cuts both ways.
  - vinay427 10y ago
    (Not the OP) There isn't just the selection bias of people you tend to know potentially not being representative of most drug users, but the need for comparing how those same drug users would do without drugs (I'm not sure how this is possible to evaluate). It isn't enough to say that some drug users are highly motivated and successful, which I don't contest.
    - baddox 10y ago
      That would be an interesting study, but it's not relevant to the discussion of the war on drugs. The comparison you'd need to make it how those people you know would be doing if they were in prison for using illegal drugs. I'd wager they'd be doing worse.
      - vinay427 10y ago
        I agree about that study being more relevant to the war on drugs, but my point was simply in response to the anecdotal claim about the motivation and success of drug users. If it were possible, it may provide more insight into how drugs should be viewed in society, regardless of legality.
    - 10y ago
dfraser992 10y ago
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drug-Warriors-Their-Prey-Police/dp/0275950425 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drug-Warriors-Their-Prey-Police/dp/... This is a good book that shows some of the motivation for a War on Drugs is not in the name of health, safety, security... but the exact opposite. The War on Drugs sorta failed in these aims, so now "terrorists" are the new excuse for a 'soft' police state.
JoeAltmaier 10y ago
I call hyperbole. Millions of deaths? Do you mean by overdose? Are those the fault of resisting the spread of drugs?
- djmobley 10y ago
  Presumably OP means deaths linked to the production, distribution, and sale of illegal drugs. Think Mexican drug cartels, gang wars over drug selling operations, etc.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    Ok that accounts for maybe 150,000. Staggeringly high. But I still call Hyperbole on 'millions'
    - toyg 10y ago
      Then add people whose life was ruined by addiction, as producers refined their wares to maximize that side-effect, and by getting caught in the prison system - then died of the effects of poverty, homelessness and emargination that result from those conditions. It's hard to keep stats on that, but you'd easily run in the millions.
      - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
        Are we still talking about drugs? Or obesity? Or internet addiction? We're talking billions by now. An no war was ever waged on those things. The 'war on drugs' has not been shown responsible for addiction, addiction-related crime and related social ills.
        throwaway-hn123 10y ago
        What the fuck are you actually arguing about? Pedantic, derailing cunt.
        toyg 10y ago
milesf 10y ago
The United States always needs an enemy. Hitler, communism, Russia, Viet Cong, acid rain, drugs, them... The war on drugs might subside because of the perfect enemy they have now: terrorists. A faceless, ever-present threat that can keep the war drums beating. What I'd like to see is the military-industrial complex shift their battle to a War on Extinction: space exploration.
- ekianjo 10y ago
  > The United States always needs an enemy. Hitler, communism, Russia, Viet Cong, acid rain, drugs, them... Not really "the US" per se, but the lobbies behind politics (the police likes the war on drugs because they get massive federal grants for it, and equipment resellers are happy to oblige - and where there is big money, there are influencers to make sure politicians go a certain way) in order to thrive. Add to that that the public opinion is pretty much against drugs in America, and it's fairly straightforward for politicians to double-down on that kind of topic and enforce rigidity.
- liquidise 10y ago
  I'm glad to see someone else come to a similar conclusion. The one thing i would add: this singular enemy tends to be held generationally. As the generations move in and out of the prime voter ages (and the congresspeople they are voting for) US policy changes dramatically around these vilified groups.
  - tunap 10y ago
    My favorite stoner had very cogent thoughts on perceived and real fears[0], marijuana usage[1] and our easily manipulated lizard brains[2]. Carl Sagan corrupted me for life. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_haunted_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_haunted_world [1] http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/ http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden
- spiderfarmer 10y ago
  Imagine if there was an all-out war on poverty, disease and corruption. The progress we could make.
karmelapple 10y ago
Chasing the Scream is a great book that gives more evidence to this claim, from stories to research, for those who need it. http://chasingthescream.com/ http://chasingthescream.com/
- jimnotgym 10y ago
  Mr Nice by Howard Marx is another interesting read. Yes he smuggled drugs, but the super-national efforts by the DEA to catch him were disgusting. The blackmail they used to make him confess (we have little evidence, but if you don't confess we will give your wife 10 years). The pointlessness of his prison life.
edblarney 10y ago
"The war on drugs is probably one of the biggest crime against humanity since WW2 " Spoken by someone who has never known an opioid or cocaine addict, and watched lives crumble, sometimes into death. Most drugs are quite dangerous and have seriously adverse affects upon populations at large. Cocaine, Meth, and Opioids create massive social health problems far beyond anything dope or alcohol ever could. I have no doubt there are 'responsible' users out there, but in general, those things will lay waste to populations at large. I had a friend who lived in his (wealthy) parents basement, smocking crack all day, every day. Visiting with him - there was gerbil feces everywhere, a divot in the sofa were he sat all day, and a pile of ashes next to him on the sofa. He had every opportunity in life, he now lives in a clinic. Another 'responsible partier' friend in who died of suffocation 'laughing gas' mask to his face. Another - a weed addict (yes, despite the fact that pot is not really chemically addictive, there is definitely such a thing as addiction) - who threw himself in front of a subway in despair. Not blaming the drugs, but it's specifically related in this case. A family member who is point-blank prescription opioid addict - and it's complicated because she gets debilitating migraines that few drugs can help her with, but the 'solution' is poison. And finally - close family members and friends who are 'chronic' pot smokers, who manage it quite well, but are basically always high. It has dramatically affected their lives, though they are functional - they are entirely different people. I'm not sure if I would call that addiction, but I would say it is problematic. I live in a mixed neighbourhood of creatives/wealthy/working class, there's a health clinic across the street - and the effect of crack in my neighbourhood is quite visible. Visit places where the 'war on drugs' is truly being lost, like West Virginia, and you get the picture pretty quickly. Of course there is no reason to put pot smokers in jail - but this antagonism about the 'war on drugs' is very naive, unsympathetic, and dangerous. Chewing on coca leaves? Maybe. The occasional LSD/Hyabithsca user? Doesn't matter. But there is no way we will legalize opioids, coke, meth - it doesn't matter that some can 'handle it' - it just wreaks havoc overall. On the whole they destroy lives, families, social scenes, and this is before the legal framework. I think that the 'perception' problem of the 'war on drugs' is largely led by people who are recreational users, living in the 'Burning Man' bubble of people who have their act together. Then they read up on 'jailing' because of this and that. Remember that if you're in that club, heck, if you're reading HN, you're probably in the top 5% of Americans, and probably the top 0.1% of global population. Visit your local Salvation Army :)
MarkHub 10y ago
There are many other things which are also biggest crime against humanity like human trafficking, terrorism and racism.
- 0x00000000 10y ago
  Agreed, but the war on drugs has fueled a lot of those things.
tw04 10y ago
It seems to me that most (not all) people who are truly "addicts" are running away from a traumatic experience in their lives. Wouldn't it be more useful of everyone's time and resources to try to help them cope with their emotional distress rather than pile on more by jailing them? As for people using drugs recreationally - if they're functioning adults then who cares? It's no different than drinking alcohol for a lot of people. If you do it in excess or irresponsibly you can die. Part of being an adult is taking a little personal responsibility.

guard-of-terra 10y ago

What's funniest, USA created War on Drugs to tackle their internal purposes, but the rest of the world adopted it anyway (including the wrong side of Iron Curtain)

Vosporos 10y ago
Yeah, so they could target communists, black panthers and pacifists :/
- mistermann 10y ago
  Afaik, countries are often required to (sometimes "unofficially") comply with a variety of US "customs" before various deals (trade, etc) will be signed. I completely believe that to control the world, you must control people's minds, and to control people's minds, you must control drugs.
- jchendy 10y ago
  Just in case anybody doesn't believe you: http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richa...
  - pandaman 10y ago
    Just in case somebody believes you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Egypt#Ottoman_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Egypt#Ottoman_peri... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Opium_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Opium_Convention There are also references of the ban in Turkey and Greece in 1890 everywhere but without good sources. The above should be enough to realize that that different nations made various drugs illegal without the US influence and without intention to oppress black panthers and communists.
ggame 10y ago
America intentionally exported the War on Drugs. It would sanction and threaten to invade those who didn't want to join. Which is the height of hypocrisy given the CIAs involvement in facilitating the drug trade. A good example is what happened with Noriega in Panama. A cynical person may think that that the modern war on drugs is intended to increase profits for the CIA for things that they couldn't ask the tax payers for. An extra cynical person may think that the CIA has found a new and much cleaner way of raising money via the tech startup industry. But you'd have to be pretty cynical to believe that.
- intended 10y ago
  Cannabis played (plays) a part in Hindu rituals/festivals - Bhaang in holi comes to mind. Guess which country has rules to bend to the war on terror?
fsloth 10y ago
Actually drug laws have been used weapons in class warfare before US. While US policies are an obvious example in this continuum, it's not the first example.
- philipov 10y ago
  The opium trade to China is a good prior example. []: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China
r00fus 10y ago
That's because a "war against $condition" is a useful way to manufacture consent. All you need is a compliant media and lots of Money to be made to corrupt enough legislators....

pizza 10y ago

and so much needless tension between close individuals on both sides of the 'divide'..

caub 10y ago

the cigarettes fumes has definitely killed, shortened lives, harmed the most innocent persons (not just the smokers themselves) not accepting that is like negationism, like believing in creationism, being completely ignorant and irresponsible

hasenj 10y ago

Really? I have a very deep suspicion that drugs destroy society by making a majority of people lethargic and unmotivated to do anything in real life. A case could be made for exceptions here and there (like the child in this article) but I don't think it works so well in society.

throwaway729 10y ago
> by making a majority of people lethargic and unmotivated to do anything in real life. Almost all of the drug users I know are highly motivated and very successful people. Even if you include illegal drugs. Perhaps this is just selection bias at work, but that knife cuts both ways.
- vinay427 10y ago
  (Not the OP) There isn't just the selection bias of people you tend to know potentially not being representative of most drug users, but the need for comparing how those same drug users would do without drugs (I'm not sure how this is possible to evaluate). It isn't enough to say that some drug users are highly motivated and successful, which I don't contest.
  - baddox 10y ago
    That would be an interesting study, but it's not relevant to the discussion of the war on drugs. The comparison you'd need to make it how those people you know would be doing if they were in prison for using illegal drugs. I'd wager they'd be doing worse.
    - vinay427 10y ago
      I agree about that study being more relevant to the war on drugs, but my point was simply in response to the anecdotal claim about the motivation and success of drug users. If it were possible, it may provide more insight into how drugs should be viewed in society, regardless of legality.
  - 10y ago

dfraser992 10y ago

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drug-Warriors-Their-Prey-Police/dp/0275950425 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drug-Warriors-Their-Prey-Police/dp/... This is a good book that shows some of the motivation for a War on Drugs is not in the name of health, safety, security... but the exact opposite. The War on Drugs sorta failed in these aims, so now "terrorists" are the new excuse for a 'soft' police state.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

I call hyperbole. Millions of deaths? Do you mean by overdose? Are those the fault of resisting the spread of drugs?

djmobley 10y ago
Presumably OP means deaths linked to the production, distribution, and sale of illegal drugs. Think Mexican drug cartels, gang wars over drug selling operations, etc.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  Ok that accounts for maybe 150,000. Staggeringly high. But I still call Hyperbole on 'millions'
  - toyg 10y ago
    Then add people whose life was ruined by addiction, as producers refined their wares to maximize that side-effect, and by getting caught in the prison system - then died of the effects of poverty, homelessness and emargination that result from those conditions. It's hard to keep stats on that, but you'd easily run in the millions.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      Are we still talking about drugs? Or obesity? Or internet addiction? We're talking billions by now. An no war was ever waged on those things. The 'war on drugs' has not been shown responsible for addiction, addiction-related crime and related social ills.
      - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
        What the fuck are you actually arguing about? Pedantic, derailing cunt.
      - toyg 10y ago

milesf 10y ago

The United States always needs an enemy. Hitler, communism, Russia, Viet Cong, acid rain, drugs, them... The war on drugs might subside because of the perfect enemy they have now: terrorists. A faceless, ever-present threat that can keep the war drums beating. What I'd like to see is the military-industrial complex shift their battle to a War on Extinction: space exploration.

ekianjo 10y ago
> The United States always needs an enemy. Hitler, communism, Russia, Viet Cong, acid rain, drugs, them... Not really "the US" per se, but the lobbies behind politics (the police likes the war on drugs because they get massive federal grants for it, and equipment resellers are happy to oblige - and where there is big money, there are influencers to make sure politicians go a certain way) in order to thrive. Add to that that the public opinion is pretty much against drugs in America, and it's fairly straightforward for politicians to double-down on that kind of topic and enforce rigidity.
liquidise 10y ago
I'm glad to see someone else come to a similar conclusion. The one thing i would add: this singular enemy tends to be held generationally. As the generations move in and out of the prime voter ages (and the congresspeople they are voting for) US policy changes dramatically around these vilified groups.
- tunap 10y ago
  My favorite stoner had very cogent thoughts on perceived and real fears[0], marijuana usage[1] and our easily manipulated lizard brains[2]. Carl Sagan corrupted me for life. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_haunted_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_haunted_world [1] http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/ http://marijuana-uses.com/mr-x/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragons_of_Eden
spiderfarmer 10y ago
Imagine if there was an all-out war on poverty, disease and corruption. The progress we could make.

karmelapple 10y ago

Chasing the Scream is a great book that gives more evidence to this claim, from stories to research, for those who need it. http://chasingthescream.com/ http://chasingthescream.com/

jimnotgym 10y ago
Mr Nice by Howard Marx is another interesting read. Yes he smuggled drugs, but the super-national efforts by the DEA to catch him were disgusting. The blackmail they used to make him confess (we have little evidence, but if you don't confess we will give your wife 10 years). The pointlessness of his prison life.

edblarney 10y ago

"The war on drugs is probably one of the biggest crime against humanity since WW2 " Spoken by someone who has never known an opioid or cocaine addict, and watched lives crumble, sometimes into death. Most drugs are quite dangerous and have seriously adverse affects upon populations at large. Cocaine, Meth, and Opioids create massive social health problems far beyond anything dope or alcohol ever could. I have no doubt there are 'responsible' users out there, but in general, those things will lay waste to populations at large. I had a friend who lived in his (wealthy) parents basement, smocking crack all day, every day. Visiting with him - there was gerbil feces everywhere, a divot in the sofa were he sat all day, and a pile of ashes next to him on the sofa. He had every opportunity in life, he now lives in a clinic. Another 'responsible partier' friend in who died of suffocation 'laughing gas' mask to his face. Another - a weed addict (yes, despite the fact that pot is not really chemically addictive, there is definitely such a thing as addiction) - who threw himself in front of a subway in despair. Not blaming the drugs, but it's specifically related in this case. A family member who is point-blank prescription opioid addict - and it's complicated because she gets debilitating migraines that few drugs can help her with, but the 'solution' is poison. And finally - close family members and friends who are 'chronic' pot smokers, who manage it quite well, but are basically always high. It has dramatically affected their lives, though they are functional - they are entirely different people. I'm not sure if I would call that addiction, but I would say it is problematic. I live in a mixed neighbourhood of creatives/wealthy/working class, there's a health clinic across the street - and the effect of crack in my neighbourhood is quite visible. Visit places where the 'war on drugs' is truly being lost, like West Virginia, and you get the picture pretty quickly. Of course there is no reason to put pot smokers in jail - but this antagonism about the 'war on drugs' is very naive, unsympathetic, and dangerous. Chewing on coca leaves? Maybe. The occasional LSD/Hyabithsca user? Doesn't matter. But there is no way we will legalize opioids, coke, meth - it doesn't matter that some can 'handle it' - it just wreaks havoc overall. On the whole they destroy lives, families, social scenes, and this is before the legal framework. I think that the 'perception' problem of the 'war on drugs' is largely led by people who are recreational users, living in the 'Burning Man' bubble of people who have their act together. Then they read up on 'jailing' because of this and that. Remember that if you're in that club, heck, if you're reading HN, you're probably in the top 5% of Americans, and probably the top 0.1% of global population. Visit your local Salvation Army :)

MarkHub 10y ago

There are many other things which are also biggest crime against humanity like human trafficking, terrorism and racism.

0x00000000 10y ago
Agreed, but the war on drugs has fueled a lot of those things.

tw04 10y ago

It seems to me that most (not all) people who are truly "addicts" are running away from a traumatic experience in their lives. Wouldn't it be more useful of everyone's time and resources to try to help them cope with their emotional distress rather than pile on more by jailing them? As for people using drugs recreationally - if they're functioning adults then who cares? It's no different than drinking alcohol for a lot of people. If you do it in excess or irresponsibly you can die. Part of being an adult is taking a little personal responsibility.