12 ms·

People are all up in arms about headphone jacks, USB-C, and dongles. When the real issue is Apple completely missing huge new markets. Apple had Siri out and

by rblatz 10y ago

People are all up in arms about headphone jacks, USB-C, and dongles. When the real issue is Apple completely missing huge new markets. Apple had Siri out and was in the lead with voice control, then they wasted it. I never use Siri, she is nearly worthless, but I do use Alexa multiple times a day. Amazon is Leading the voice assistant market, and Google is right on their heels. Home automation was supposed to get better with HomeKit but arrived basically stalled. They announced all these partners and sold their products at the Apple Store. Then when HomeKit finally was ready none of those products worked with HomeKit. You had to buy newer versions that had some proprietary Apple chip in it. Apple's cloud offering is confusing and hard to manage, also it doesn't work with other platforms besides their own. Amazon and Google both do this much better. AppleTv is a great product but Apple can't seem to really work with partners to make it actually innovative. The TV app is a cool idea, but I've yet to find any reason to actually use it. It just seems like they've been wondering aimlessly and dropping half products out there then never iterating and finishing them. Is there some other hidden project (car?) taking all their top talent? Is there some sort of corporate culture issue that has driven all the best and brightest brightest elsewhere? Is there a lot of mismanagement and mixed signals coming down from above?

martinald 10y ago
I agree. They seem to be making the same mistake as Microsoft did in the Ballmer years. Yes, they are poking at some new markets, but quite half heartedly and believing their own ecosystem hype too much. It feels like all the protests about Vista back then. When in reality this was trivial compared to the fact there was virtually nothing exciting coming out from them and they misstepped on huge new markets. I honestly get the impression they are shocked that people don't love all the new stuff as much as they expected.
- Skunkleton 10y ago
  It shouldn't surprise anyone. Tim Cook and Steve Ballmer shared a similar roll when they were under their respective CEO/Celebrities.
eridius 10y ago
HomeKit doesn't require a proprietary Apple chip, I have no idea where you got that idea. It just has very high security standards.
- evan_ 10y ago
  All I know is that I have Philips Hue lights, Belkin Wemo switches, and a Nest thermostat and none of them connect to HomeKit. For the Hue I have to buy a new bridge, Belkin says that they can't support it without completely new hardware[1], and Nest is completely mum on the issue but presumably there's no hope of support in the near future. These devices all have active developer communities and good API/interaction. I plugged my Amazon Echo in and it immediately detected all three and allowed me to control them seamlessly. I don't know what the specific issue is but it sure seems like Apple is the problem. [1]: http://www.belkin.com/us/support-article?articleNum=187953 http://www.belkin.com/us/support-article?articleNum=187953
  - aljones 10y ago
    The issue is Apple's security standards.
    - tomovo 10y ago
      The same standards that let a stranger stand in front of your door and say "hey Siri, open the front door" and walk right in?
      - kaishiro 10y ago
        Out of curiosity, how does the required chip/hardware help defend against this?
    - JakeTheAndroid 10y ago
      Yes, it is a security standard issue, but it's enforced with hardware. So, while this is there for a reason (possibly even setting a standard for these IoT devices), it's not simply a lack of developers building secure software. It's with the hardware not being spec'd to meet these "arbitrary" security standards. I say arbitrary because clearly no one else in the game is using it. So, I think the OP is correct here, Apple has made a product that simply doesn't work with other products due to their own decisions. Edit: Typos
chrisabrams 10y ago
Steve and the unified vision is gone. While on winter holidays my fiance pointed out to me: - She just got a new Macbook Pro from her new job, which has only USB C ports - She just got a new iPhone 7 from her new job, which is only a Lightning port She cannot connect her phone to her computer to charge without a dongle. EDIT: a Lightning to USB C cable does exist now. That is still equivalent to a dongle in my opinion, as the consumer still has to buy it and it is a cable that won't be used for anything else. She has to carry two sets of headphones, one for her computer, and one for her phone. The unified vision at Apple is gone.
- artimaeis 10y ago
  Here's my personal conjecture based on owning most products in the Apple lineup and trying to predict the future a bit. So far as I can tell the idea is Lightning ports for devices which require charging, and USB ports for devices which require data transfer. All cables designed to provide power utilize a USB A connector - this is the majority of Lightning cables. In their current lineup this can be used to charge an iPad, iPhone, Apple Watch, and Air Pods case. I recognize a lot of users still use the Lightning cable to transfer data to/from the phone to/from a computer. I'm betting Apple views these users as the current edge case. Given that - it seems only a matter of time until an iPhone which has no ports, similar to the Apple Watch. I imagine they'd rather not deal with USB-C on their devices at all - given the madness behind the different power capabilities of cables that seem to plague the specification. But they also recognize that is the future of general-use cables and are embracing it accordingly. Given the lack of ability to charge any Apple peripheral directly from the newest Macbook (12" or Pro) models I suspect the internal rule is that devices with batteries aren't considered charging sources. I'm personally excited to see the directions Apple keeps moving towards. I think it'll end up a more unified future than we've had yet. But I'm also ready to be wrong. I'll try to look back on this in a few years and see how we are.
  - notwhoyouthink 10y ago
    > Given that - it seems only a matter of time until an iPhone which has no ports, similar to the Apple Watch. Unless we invent seriously good wireless charging, I just can't see that happening. There's too many cases where having your phone "docked" just doesn't work. Personally, I usually fall asleep with my phone laying on the bed next to me playing YouTube/Netflix/etc. No way to do that if it has to be resting on a pad like the Watch. And what about cars and navigation? Can't throw your phone in your cup holder and pull up Maps anymore. You either need a new car with wireless charging or need to strap some sort of wireless charging pad to the back, which defeats the entire purpose of wireless charging.
evan_ 10y ago
The thing that just makes me throw my hands up in exasperation is that Apple could have been early to the "home hub" game with AppleTV but they just didn't see it. Imagine if, instead of Apple Watch, they had put those folks into building the AppleTV into a home hub based on Siri. I feel like Apple Watch was to be their "always available assistant" but I just don't see it succeeding in that market for most people. (Siri isn't as good as Alexa or Google's thing but that's a separate issue...)
- taeric 10y ago
  Imagine how so many Sony and then Microsoft fans feel. Either the Playstation or XBox could have been a wonderful device to centralize around in a home. Yet they constantly bungled it from generation to generation. Sony was promising when they had PS2 compatible with PS1. The problem was they each always try to just extend their corporate wall around your home. Rather than giving an inviting place to encourage innovation in your home. Apple has the same "our way, on our time" mentality that stifles innovation by third parties. For a time, this was offset by the awesome innovations they were providing. That time seems to be ending.
  - evan_ 10y ago
    Great point- and if I'm not mistaken there was voice recognition available on the XBox 360 and the PS3 through their add-on camera kits, which meant only some relatively small portion of installs had it. Then they both did the exact same thing in the following gen. The XBox has Cortana, I think, but does the PS4 have a "smart assistant"?
    - esalman 10y ago
      Cortana requires a mic attached to Xbox or the controller. But I never use one. It would be nice to have a mic built into Xbox, which would act like Alexa or Google home.
      - tboughen 10y ago
homakov 10y ago
Also, remember Maps? Such a useless app. Can't cache anything, and no updates since ever.
- matt4077 10y ago
  Actually, maps has improved dramatically which is why it's the one complaint about Apple that is rarely repeated.
  - homakov 10y ago
    No cache at all is horrible mobile experience
andrewstuart2 10y ago
> Apple had Siri out and was in the lead with voice control, then they wasted it. I think this statement can be generalized to almost every single product Apple sells or has sold. They've seriously excelled at innovation in the past (tons of great historic computers, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, Siri, etc.) but then it's like the whole company eventually gets bored with Product X and moves on because "Innovation is Out There!"
- Touche 10y ago
  I honestly want to know what was innovative about Siri. Android already have voice commands at that time, they just didn't have a cutesy name for it. I guess Siri was "innovative" in that it had a clever marketing campaign behind it, that Google, Microsoft, and Amazon later copied.
  - nashashmi 10y ago
    Siri was a big distraction when it came in the box with humor. But otherwise, it was the future. Just think if you were supposed to control your device with voice only. Blind people could use it. Car drivers could use it. Lazy people could use it. Siri took a long time to integrate into apps. Siri took a while to get some intelligence. Siri took a while to integrate more into the OS. Siri became just another app but with a hardware shortcut. Nothing more. Future spoiled.
    - Touche 10y ago
      But Siri wasn't voice activated at the start. It actually got that feature after Google Now had it. So again, I don't see anything that was innovative about Siri at its release.
  - sosborn 10y ago
    > Android already have voice commands at that time, they just didn't have a cutesy name for it. So did iOS, well before Android. They just didn't have a cutesy name for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_command_device#Voice_command_mobile_devices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_command_device#Voice_com...
jaxondu 10y ago
> Apple had Siri out and was in the lead with voice control, then they wasted it. Just ask "Who's the next President of the United States of America." OK Google gets it. Siri shows you a list of web/wiki articles.
stcredzero 10y ago
- Apple had Siri out and was in the lead with voice control, then they wasted it. - Home automation was supposed to get better with HomeKit but arrived basically stalled. - Apple's cloud offering is confusing and hard to manage - AppleTv is a great product but Apple can't seem to really work with partners 3 out of 4 of the above has to do with UX and software. Apple is losing its way with UX with particular pieces of software. In the old days, the errant groups would get spanked by Steve Jobs or his chosen lieutenants. In the old days, the last one would also be brought home by Steve Jobs or his chosen lieutenants.
vlunkr 10y ago
I mean, they're making billions a year in revenue in the markets they are in, so maybe they don't care? (side note: in my experience Alexa is much worse at understanding what I'm asking) edit: to quote the article: "Shrinking iPhone sales last year caused Apple to suffer its first annual revenue decline in 15 years." Apple is incredibly successful, all of this declaring them dead because they had a bad quarter is kind of dumb.
banach2 10y ago
I know this isn't what you meant by car, but I want to take this opportunity to mention that my least favourite thing about my car is the Apple software which runs on it; Apple CarPlay. I live in London. Apple maps is a disaster. Businesses which have moved shop years ago are in the wrong place. Traffic routes which are congested every day are recommended. It's literally a waste of my life to use this software. Despite this flaw (and the fact that the head unit is actually useless until your plug in your iPhone), Apple maps is the only navigation software permitted to run on these head units; even though, it is permissible to use Google Maps or Waze when I am walking on the pavement; even though, it is permissible to mount my phone to my car and use an alternative navigation software. Additionally, on the subject of "wireless grand unification," you can only connect your phone via USB.
- shadowfiend 10y ago
  CarPlay has supported wireless functionality for some time, but car manufacturers and 3rd party addons are only starting to support it now. No defense for the maps restriction, however.
  - banach2 10y ago
    You're right, however, CarPlay is already a very recent development. Bluetooth seems like quite a major omission, especially when you consider that it has been an established technology in cars since at least the turn of the millennium. Thankfully that doesn't bug me so much, because I tend to want to charge my phone when I drive anyway.
  - jsz0 10y ago
    It's not a restriction. Apple simply hasn't built out a fully featured third party SDK for CarPlay yet. It's impossible to build a maps app using the currently available third party CarPlay APIs.
- jrnichols 10y ago
  > Apple maps is a disaster. Businesses which have moved shop years ago are in the wrong place. Are people submitting corrections? It's amazing how quickly they respond here in the US, at least where I am. I submit corrections and usually see a notification within a week that it's been addressed.
drdoom 10y ago
Apple Engineer Talks About New 2016 Macbook Pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU
jrnichols 10y ago
> Amazon is Leading the voice assistant market, and Google is right on their heels. That's rather subjective. My experiences with Siri have been way better than with Google. > You had to buy newer versions that had some proprietary Apple chip in it. Not accurate at all. > Apple can't seem to really work with partners to make it actually innovative. Neither can Google or Roku. Content providers are stubborn. > they've been wondering aimlessly and dropping half products out there then never iterating and finishing them You just described Google, actually.
jsz0 10y ago
> Home automation was supposed to get better with HomeKit but arrived basically stalled. No clue where you're getting this from. HomeKit is bigger/better than ever. There are tons of new HomeKit compatible devices being shown at CES this year. You can goto major hardware stores like Home Depot and Lowes and buy HomeKit lights, outlets, switches, door locks, etc. Apple made some nice improvements to HomeKit in iOS 10 by adding the 'Home' app and including control of HomeKit accessories in Control Center. They also added a bunch of new features to the HomeKit APIs to support new types of devices. I've never heard anything about incompatible HomeKit devices. It's possible but I'm using all first-gen devices and they work fine so I doubt it.

by rblatz 10y ago

martinald 10y ago

I agree. They seem to be making the same mistake as Microsoft did in the Ballmer years. Yes, they are poking at some new markets, but quite half heartedly and believing their own ecosystem hype too much. It feels like all the protests about Vista back then. When in reality this was trivial compared to the fact there was virtually nothing exciting coming out from them and they misstepped on huge new markets. I honestly get the impression they are shocked that people don't love all the new stuff as much as they expected.

Skunkleton 10y ago
It shouldn't surprise anyone. Tim Cook and Steve Ballmer shared a similar roll when they were under their respective CEO/Celebrities.

eridius 10y ago

HomeKit doesn't require a proprietary Apple chip, I have no idea where you got that idea. It just has very high security standards.

evan_ 10y ago
All I know is that I have Philips Hue lights, Belkin Wemo switches, and a Nest thermostat and none of them connect to HomeKit. For the Hue I have to buy a new bridge, Belkin says that they can't support it without completely new hardware[1], and Nest is completely mum on the issue but presumably there's no hope of support in the near future. These devices all have active developer communities and good API/interaction. I plugged my Amazon Echo in and it immediately detected all three and allowed me to control them seamlessly. I don't know what the specific issue is but it sure seems like Apple is the problem. [1]: http://www.belkin.com/us/support-article?articleNum=187953 http://www.belkin.com/us/support-article?articleNum=187953
- aljones 10y ago
  The issue is Apple's security standards.
  - tomovo 10y ago
    The same standards that let a stranger stand in front of your door and say "hey Siri, open the front door" and walk right in?
    - kaishiro 10y ago
      Out of curiosity, how does the required chip/hardware help defend against this?
  - JakeTheAndroid 10y ago
    Yes, it is a security standard issue, but it's enforced with hardware. So, while this is there for a reason (possibly even setting a standard for these IoT devices), it's not simply a lack of developers building secure software. It's with the hardware not being spec'd to meet these "arbitrary" security standards. I say arbitrary because clearly no one else in the game is using it. So, I think the OP is correct here, Apple has made a product that simply doesn't work with other products due to their own decisions. Edit: Typos

chrisabrams 10y ago

Steve and the unified vision is gone. While on winter holidays my fiance pointed out to me: - She just got a new Macbook Pro from her new job, which has only USB C ports - She just got a new iPhone 7 from her new job, which is only a Lightning port She cannot connect her phone to her computer to charge without a dongle. EDIT: a Lightning to USB C cable does exist now. That is still equivalent to a dongle in my opinion, as the consumer still has to buy it and it is a cable that won't be used for anything else. She has to carry two sets of headphones, one for her computer, and one for her phone. The unified vision at Apple is gone.

artimaeis 10y ago
Here's my personal conjecture based on owning most products in the Apple lineup and trying to predict the future a bit. So far as I can tell the idea is Lightning ports for devices which require charging, and USB ports for devices which require data transfer. All cables designed to provide power utilize a USB A connector - this is the majority of Lightning cables. In their current lineup this can be used to charge an iPad, iPhone, Apple Watch, and Air Pods case. I recognize a lot of users still use the Lightning cable to transfer data to/from the phone to/from a computer. I'm betting Apple views these users as the current edge case. Given that - it seems only a matter of time until an iPhone which has no ports, similar to the Apple Watch. I imagine they'd rather not deal with USB-C on their devices at all - given the madness behind the different power capabilities of cables that seem to plague the specification. But they also recognize that is the future of general-use cables and are embracing it accordingly. Given the lack of ability to charge any Apple peripheral directly from the newest Macbook (12" or Pro) models I suspect the internal rule is that devices with batteries aren't considered charging sources. I'm personally excited to see the directions Apple keeps moving towards. I think it'll end up a more unified future than we've had yet. But I'm also ready to be wrong. I'll try to look back on this in a few years and see how we are.
- notwhoyouthink 10y ago
  > Given that - it seems only a matter of time until an iPhone which has no ports, similar to the Apple Watch. Unless we invent seriously good wireless charging, I just can't see that happening. There's too many cases where having your phone "docked" just doesn't work. Personally, I usually fall asleep with my phone laying on the bed next to me playing YouTube/Netflix/etc. No way to do that if it has to be resting on a pad like the Watch. And what about cars and navigation? Can't throw your phone in your cup holder and pull up Maps anymore. You either need a new car with wireless charging or need to strap some sort of wireless charging pad to the back, which defeats the entire purpose of wireless charging.

evan_ 10y ago

The thing that just makes me throw my hands up in exasperation is that Apple could have been early to the "home hub" game with AppleTV but they just didn't see it. Imagine if, instead of Apple Watch, they had put those folks into building the AppleTV into a home hub based on Siri. I feel like Apple Watch was to be their "always available assistant" but I just don't see it succeeding in that market for most people. (Siri isn't as good as Alexa or Google's thing but that's a separate issue...)

taeric 10y ago
Imagine how so many Sony and then Microsoft fans feel. Either the Playstation or XBox could have been a wonderful device to centralize around in a home. Yet they constantly bungled it from generation to generation. Sony was promising when they had PS2 compatible with PS1. The problem was they each always try to just extend their corporate wall around your home. Rather than giving an inviting place to encourage innovation in your home. Apple has the same "our way, on our time" mentality that stifles innovation by third parties. For a time, this was offset by the awesome innovations they were providing. That time seems to be ending.
- evan_ 10y ago
  Great point- and if I'm not mistaken there was voice recognition available on the XBox 360 and the PS3 through their add-on camera kits, which meant only some relatively small portion of installs had it. Then they both did the exact same thing in the following gen. The XBox has Cortana, I think, but does the PS4 have a "smart assistant"?
  - esalman 10y ago
    Cortana requires a mic attached to Xbox or the controller. But I never use one. It would be nice to have a mic built into Xbox, which would act like Alexa or Google home.
    - tboughen 10y ago

homakov 10y ago

Also, remember Maps? Such a useless app. Can't cache anything, and no updates since ever.

matt4077 10y ago
Actually, maps has improved dramatically which is why it's the one complaint about Apple that is rarely repeated.
- homakov 10y ago
  No cache at all is horrible mobile experience

andrewstuart2 10y ago

> Apple had Siri out and was in the lead with voice control, then they wasted it. I think this statement can be generalized to almost every single product Apple sells or has sold. They've seriously excelled at innovation in the past (tons of great historic computers, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, Siri, etc.) but then it's like the whole company eventually gets bored with Product X and moves on because "Innovation is Out There!"

Touche 10y ago
I honestly want to know what was innovative about Siri. Android already have voice commands at that time, they just didn't have a cutesy name for it. I guess Siri was "innovative" in that it had a clever marketing campaign behind it, that Google, Microsoft, and Amazon later copied.
- nashashmi 10y ago
  Siri was a big distraction when it came in the box with humor. But otherwise, it was the future. Just think if you were supposed to control your device with voice only. Blind people could use it. Car drivers could use it. Lazy people could use it. Siri took a long time to integrate into apps. Siri took a while to get some intelligence. Siri took a while to integrate more into the OS. Siri became just another app but with a hardware shortcut. Nothing more. Future spoiled.
  - Touche 10y ago
    But Siri wasn't voice activated at the start. It actually got that feature after Google Now had it. So again, I don't see anything that was innovative about Siri at its release.
- sosborn 10y ago
  > Android already have voice commands at that time, they just didn't have a cutesy name for it. So did iOS, well before Android. They just didn't have a cutesy name for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_command_device#Voice_command_mobile_devices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_command_device#Voice_com...

jaxondu 10y ago

> Apple had Siri out and was in the lead with voice control, then they wasted it. Just ask "Who's the next President of the United States of America." OK Google gets it. Siri shows you a list of web/wiki articles.

stcredzero 10y ago

- Apple had Siri out and was in the lead with voice control, then they wasted it. - Home automation was supposed to get better with HomeKit but arrived basically stalled. - Apple's cloud offering is confusing and hard to manage - AppleTv is a great product but Apple can't seem to really work with partners 3 out of 4 of the above has to do with UX and software. Apple is losing its way with UX with particular pieces of software. In the old days, the errant groups would get spanked by Steve Jobs or his chosen lieutenants. In the old days, the last one would also be brought home by Steve Jobs or his chosen lieutenants.

vlunkr 10y ago

I mean, they're making billions a year in revenue in the markets they are in, so maybe they don't care? (side note: in my experience Alexa is much worse at understanding what I'm asking) edit: to quote the article: "Shrinking iPhone sales last year caused Apple to suffer its first annual revenue decline in 15 years." Apple is incredibly successful, all of this declaring them dead because they had a bad quarter is kind of dumb.

banach2 10y ago

I know this isn't what you meant by car, but I want to take this opportunity to mention that my least favourite thing about my car is the Apple software which runs on it; Apple CarPlay. I live in London. Apple maps is a disaster. Businesses which have moved shop years ago are in the wrong place. Traffic routes which are congested every day are recommended. It's literally a waste of my life to use this software. Despite this flaw (and the fact that the head unit is actually useless until your plug in your iPhone), Apple maps is the only navigation software permitted to run on these head units; even though, it is permissible to use Google Maps or Waze when I am walking on the pavement; even though, it is permissible to mount my phone to my car and use an alternative navigation software. Additionally, on the subject of "wireless grand unification," you can only connect your phone via USB.

shadowfiend 10y ago
CarPlay has supported wireless functionality for some time, but car manufacturers and 3rd party addons are only starting to support it now. No defense for the maps restriction, however.
- banach2 10y ago
  You're right, however, CarPlay is already a very recent development. Bluetooth seems like quite a major omission, especially when you consider that it has been an established technology in cars since at least the turn of the millennium. Thankfully that doesn't bug me so much, because I tend to want to charge my phone when I drive anyway.
- jsz0 10y ago
  It's not a restriction. Apple simply hasn't built out a fully featured third party SDK for CarPlay yet. It's impossible to build a maps app using the currently available third party CarPlay APIs.
jrnichols 10y ago
> Apple maps is a disaster. Businesses which have moved shop years ago are in the wrong place. Are people submitting corrections? It's amazing how quickly they respond here in the US, at least where I am. I submit corrections and usually see a notification within a week that it's been addressed.

drdoom 10y ago

Apple Engineer Talks About New 2016 Macbook Pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU

jrnichols 10y ago

> Amazon is Leading the voice assistant market, and Google is right on their heels. That's rather subjective. My experiences with Siri have been way better than with Google. > You had to buy newer versions that had some proprietary Apple chip in it. Not accurate at all. > Apple can't seem to really work with partners to make it actually innovative. Neither can Google or Roku. Content providers are stubborn. > they've been wondering aimlessly and dropping half products out there then never iterating and finishing them You just described Google, actually.

jsz0 10y ago

> Home automation was supposed to get better with HomeKit but arrived basically stalled. No clue where you're getting this from. HomeKit is bigger/better than ever. There are tons of new HomeKit compatible devices being shown at CES this year. You can goto major hardware stores like Home Depot and Lowes and buy HomeKit lights, outlets, switches, door locks, etc. Apple made some nice improvements to HomeKit in iOS 10 by adding the 'Home' app and including control of HomeKit accessories in Control Center. They also added a bunch of new features to the HomeKit APIs to support new types of devices. I've never heard anything about incompatible HomeKit devices. It's possible but I'm using all first-gen devices and they work fine so I doubt it.