9 ms·
A Mysterious Virus That Could Cause Obesity
- heisenbit 10y agoA quick Google search brought up a paper from '97 on this topic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9385623 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9385623 . Considering all the progress in genetic diagnostics I wonder why this topic has not gained more visibility. Is it due to correctness, statistical relevance for the general population (or population outside India) or slowness of knowledge dissemination in the medical community?
- stephanheijl 10y agoWithout regarding any other research on this topic, this particular paper has some interesting notes that may be considered. The sample size (52) is somewhat small, and the humans in this sample are already obese. (Even) the N-AGPT group (no antibodies found) had a 30.7 BMI on average. This makes it difficult to conclude that the virus was the cause of obesity based on this paper alone, as the entire sample set was obese by definition (BMI >30). At the very best one could infer that the level of obesity was affected by the virus to some extent.
- whb07 10y agoArticle just shows that that the virus helps makes glucose easier and leads to more fat generation but the subject of article doesn't show clean eating and rigorous exercise, try as you may the body cannot make energy deposits (fat) out of thin air
- agentgt 10y agoNo the article doesn't show that. It just shows there is a correlation of increased weight gain for both chickens and humans that come in contact with Ad-36 virus. The mechanism to how the virus works is unclear as stated by the article (3 possible ways were alleged) as well as how so many do what you just did: assume that a virus has little role and that it is the patients fault: Atkinson says, “I remember giving a talk at a conference where I presented 15 different studies in which Ad-36 either caused or was correlated to fatness. At the end of it, a good friend said to me, ‘I just don’t believe it.’ He didn’t give a reason; he just didn’t believe it. People are really stuck on eating and exercise as the only contributors to fatness. But there is more to it.” Did you actually read the article?
- moron4hire 10y agoIt's because we as a society treat obesity as immoral. You see this across any disorder where there is a sizable proportion of the population who think it's a "choice" rather than a disease that needs to be treated: depression, alcoholism, ADHD. People refuse to believe evidence in contradiction to their moral upbringing, rather than refine their morals.
- waqf 10y agoYour cause and effect are backwards. People think that obesity, depression, alcoholism, ADHD are moral failings because they think that they're under your conscious control and therefore not susceptible to biochemical intervention. (In particular, to break the cycle we'd have to start by teaching people better biology — it's no good arguing with people's morals if you don't start from the same basis of facts as them.)
- moron4hire 10y agoI think you're just misreading what I wrote. "People think it's a choice because they think it's immoral" is clearly an absurd parsing.
- VLM 10y agoNot disagreeing entirely, but better examples would have been gay and trans, where the gay and trans people haven't changed very much but the medical and cultural response toward them has changed quite a bit over the last couple decades. Also (original) OP seems to assume starvation mode is as healthy as normal mode, which is ... questionable at best. Yes if a tapeworm is sucking glucose out of your blood, as long as it doesn't suck too much and kill you, you'll either have to go into starvation fat burning mode essentially permanently as long as you're infected which might have some negative long term side effects, or you can try to live normally which will result in obesity. Aside from the medical problems from living in permanent starvation mode, I imagine the psychological experience is incredibly unpleasant. From memory starvation is contraindicated for recovery from surgery, pregnancy, and athletic training. I wonder how many infected people die after a relatively boring surgery because either they're fat or they're starving so they can't recover correctly. Or miscarriages where the body thinks its in deep starvation mode so better the mother survive than take them both down, despite normal food intake. Aside from the obvious pregnancy complications from obesity, of course. Any way you look at it, that virus needs eradicating.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- agentgt 10y ago“There are three ways that we think Ad-36 makes people fatter: (1) It increases the uptake of glucose from the blood and converts it to fat; (2) it increases the creation of fat molecules through fatty acid synthase, an enzyme that creates fat; and (3) it enables the creation of more fat cells to hold all the fat by committing stem cells, which can turn into either bone or fat, into fat. So the fat cells that exist are getting bigger, and the body is creating more of them.” I assume they mean three possible ways and that only one of them is probably happening or do they think all three are happening (required)? I doubt all three would be happening but I could be wrong. Minor nitpick... Is the list ordered by some priority or is it arbitrary (and if arbitrary bullet points or hyphens would be nice instead of emphasizing the count).
- darkerside 10y ago> So the fat cells that exist are getting bigger, and the body is creating more of them. That summary at the end indicates that the researchers believe all 3 are happening.
- agentgt 10y agoMust be my mental holiday hangover but I didn't see that summary. I assume you mean the last sentence which I assumed was part of the third point: So the fat cells that exist are getting bigger, and the body is creating more of them. I suppose it does require 2 and 3 but does it require 1?
- darkerside 10y agoYeah, I read it as minimally requiring 3), and either 1) or 2). So probably meant to include all three.
- bluejekyll 10y ago‘In God we trust, all others bring data.’ I love that quote, I can't remember seeing it before.
- beagle3 10y agoI've seen "in good we trust, all others pay cash" 30 years ago - the paraphrasing might be new but the basic saying isn't.
- nommm-nommm 10y agoIn God We Trust: All Others Pay Cash is the name of a novel that the movie A Christmas Story was based on. I don't believe that the novel invented that phrase though.
- onestone 10y agoIn God we trust, all others must submit an X.509 Certificate.
- ht85 10y agoI know that posting the original title is usually recommended, but shouldn't it be proper etiquette to remove sensationalism and click-baity messages on HN? "The" is very misleading, so is "Cause Obesity". Wouldn't "A Mysterious Virus That Could Interfere With Hunger" be much more accurate?
- fragsworth 10y agoNo. One virus made chickens subjected to the virus gain weight when compared to the control group, even though they were fed the same amount. That virus actually very directly causes obesity, and the claim is that there are similar viruses in humans, which we've found correlational data for, but we can't ethically test for it.
- ht85 10y agoTechnically, the virus directly causes overeating, not obesity, the title makes it sound like this virus could make you gain more weight for a different reason. "Cause Obesity" sounds like it is the entire reason behind all of obesity, not just one of the multiple factors.
- overgard 10y agoThe article specifically mentions the guy lost minimal weight even during medical interventions when his diet was restricted. He wasnt overeating during those periods.
- heisenbit 10y agoThe article was a bit confusing on the relationship between food, blood work and other health aspects. Diabetes later in life - lack of insulin does not necessarily lead to weight gain - insulin is encouraging cells to store energy after all. Low triglycerides may be result of low fructose diet. As the weight gain effect can be reproduced in animals I wonder whether there is more animal blood and cell data that could provide clues on the underlying mechanism. I can't imaging they only used a scale to measure the outcome but then the proof is in the pudding.
- kilroy123 10y agoSo is there a virus out there that will do the opposite? Or maybe some gene modifications that could be made?
- overgard 10y agoWell you could always get a tapeworm parasite, though I doubt that would be sound medical advice ;)
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y agoReminds me of this guy[1] who claims to have cured his own Ulcerative Colitis with roundworms. 1. http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/12/09/worms.health/ http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/12/09/worms.health/
- aperrien 10y agoI'm more curious as to what the goal of increasing fat mass would be for the virus. You'd think that it has to be part of its reproductive cycle somehow. Are the viruses hiding out inside of fat cells?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- DrScump 10y agoThat doesn't have to be a specific goal; it could be just a side-effect. Viruses "goal", in general, is to make more copies of itself. One possibility is that a host that gains weight easily will be more resilient in times of famine.
- DanBC 10y agoMaybe, here's one (with a few human subject): http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v4/n10/full/tp201498a.html http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v4/n10/full/tp201498a.html Here's another (in mice, not sure if they've tried people yet): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22458428 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22458428 The best thing people can do to change their gut flora is to cut back on sugar and increase dietary fibre.
- DeBraid 10y agotldr; a virus, Ad-36, may or may not cause obesity in humans. > Though Dhurandhar and Atkinson have conducted several strong studies showing the contribution of Ad-36 to fatness, skepticism remains. Atkinson says, “I remember giving a talk at a conference where I presented 15 different studies in which Ad-36 either caused or was correlated to fatness.
- dang 10y ago> may or may not I like that. We put it in the title above, as well as changing linkbait 'the' to modest 'a'. If anyone can suggest a better (i.e. more accurate and neutral) title, we can change it again.
- overgard 10y agoIn the spirit of community feedback: I dont really see how the original article was clickbait at all. "The" is appropriate since its talking about a specific virus that has a potentially novel biochemical effect not otherwise seen, and "may or may not" is literally the same thing as "could", ie, they both imply a lack of conclusive proof. The original title never claimed "all obesity" or conclusive evidence. You've mostly just made the title more wordy.
- dang 10y agoWordy? Ouch! Ok, I took out "may or may not". I disagree about "The", though. Much like "this", it's a clickbait device—somehow it grabs attention whether it deserves it or not. And it's misleading, too, because it implies there's only one of the thing.
- overgard 10y agoNo insult intended with wordy, I realize moderating is a difficult and sometimes thankless task and most calls are non-obvious, I'm just a guy with opinions. Fair enough on "the", I see your point.
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- logicallee 10y agoDoes anyone know whether as a matter of epidemiology, prevalence of this virus matches any part of an obesity map like this: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/map-of-global-obesity-trends/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/map-o... My guess is this virus would be equally prevalent in North America and Western Europe and therefore as a matter of public health has no impact whatsoever on obesity. Instead, in my reading in North America it is very difficult to eat in a healthy way and in my personal experience people are eager to find reasons other than the food supply, tastes, and behaviors. If, on the other hand, this virus was prevalent in North America but very rare in Western Europe it would give some indication that perhaps it was worthy of attention. I would like to know if anyone has applied this differential.
- wcummings 10y agoI really doubt this virus has anything to do with obesity in aggregate, the causes are pretty well understood. >in my reading in North America it is very difficult to eat in a healthy way and in my personal experience people are eager to find reasons other than the food supply, tastes, and behaviors. You hit the nail on the head, this is probably why this story got as many votes as it did.
- zbjornson 10y agoThere's actually a lot of data on this because adenoviruses are popular vaccine vectors of study right now, and the selected serotype must be one that as few people as possible have titers against, so researchers test random people for immunity. For example, [0] (2010) reports that ~5% of people in the US were positive for Ad36, 35% Thailand, 52% South Africa, 91%(!) Malawi, 88% Cameroon, 48% Botswana, 43% Brazil. Malawi, Cameroon, Thailand and Botswana are solidly in the lower % obesity parts of the map that you linked to, while the US has the lowest antibody prevalence and highest obesity. They don't have Ad36 data for Europe unfortunately, but ... Ad36 is not the only adipogenic (fat-causing) serotype. Ad5, 9, 31, 36 and 37 are all correlated or linked to being adipogenic [1]. The above paper [0] has numbers for Ad5 if you're interested: Europe was 39% negative, US 31%, the African countries 10-13%, Brazil 18%. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19925902 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19925902 [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26352001 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26352001
- mangeletti 10y ago[removed my unsubstantiated complaints about the article]
- charlieflowers 10y agoDownright deceptive summary. The article shares a boatload of interesting, relevant evidence of a correlation between certain viruses and fat. Plus, the article actually expresses some doubt that the "hook" was the cause (it was not a hook, it was a rooster's talon)
- overgard 10y agoYou're doing exactly what you claim they're doing -- misrepresenting the article. They're saying there's possibly a virus that can cause obesity, and it might come from chickens. They're not claiming that it causes all obesity, just that it may be a vector.
- lngnmn 10y agoVirus, really? Would it cause an epidemic in so-called third world? Or is it a social virus, which has something to do with habits, social norms, junk food and lifestyle of over-consumption?
- PepeGomez 10y agoIt did? The US may be the only first world country in the top 20 obese countries.
- ginko 10y agoThis could also be a possible explanation for this: http://www.livescience.com/10277-obesity-rise-animals.html http://www.livescience.com/10277-obesity-rise-animals.html >Allison first stumbled across evidence of overweight animals while looking at data on marmosets from the Wisconsin National Primate Research Center. The average weight of the monkeys had gone up over the decades, he noticed, and there seemed to be no plausible explanation. Allison queried primate center researcher Joseph Kemnitz as to what the cause might be: Were the marmosets from a different supplier? Had they been bred to be larger? The answers were "no" and "no." >But the monkeys' diets had been changed over the years, a switch that was well-documented by the lab. So Allison tried running the numbers again, this time controlling for the diet change. >"It only made the results stronger," he said. With the diet change, the animals should have lost weight, if anything.
- heptathorp 10y ago> With the diet change, the animals should have lost weight, if anything. I think the far more likely explanation is that they don't have a complete understanding of nutrition and their expectations about the diet change were wrong. "But we put the marmosets on a No-Fat diet! They should be losing weight!"
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- KirinDave 10y agoFad diets a la Taubes's poorly researched book are not very popular in lab settings, where calories in/out work tends to make quantification easier. And given the low cost and overhead of fresher food, many research animals I've been involved with in a past life are pretty well compared to th humans overseeing them.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- djyaz1200 10y agoFor the sake of discussion let's just say this virus makes people more prone to Obesity (certainly there is a lot of correlation)... It would be interesting to test if the damage and/or mechanism of this virus is a one time event or ongoing issue. What would happen if the people and/or chickens were given anti-viral meds... or took lots of vitamin C? Is the effect reversed? I have no idea what would happen but I'd be very interested to see. HIV patients given antiviral drugs sometimes experience lipodystrophy, which may somehow be related but that's just a wild guess. Also, if I'm a ruthless chicken farmer wouldn't I want all my chickens to have this since it makes them heavier based on the same food intake? Finally, what's going on with the people who have the antibody but haven't gained weight? What's different about their immune function, diet and/or lifestyle.
- ilaksh 10y agoAssuming they are trying to come up with a treatment based on this theory but that wasn't mentioned.
- DoodleBuggy 10y agoThere's an endless search for blame, but it's almost always about food intake. Types of food, amounts of food, level of activity. In modern society, people generally eat ridiculously calorie dense overprocessed garbage food that ravages insulin sensitivity and then they remain inactive for 23+ hours a day, barely shuffling from a car to a desk to a car to a couch. Unsurprisingly, they gain weight.
- commentzorro 10y agoCongratulations on completely not understanding the entire issue of weight gain and obesity research that's been happening for the last 15 years. You win all the prizes.
- DoodleBuggy 10y agoWith that kind of vapid nonsensical comment I can tell you're a true expert on at least part of the topic.
- commentzorro 10y agoWhat you cannot see is still there if only you let the light stream from your eyes. Be well second half.
- dang 10y agoPlease don't post uncivil or unsubstantive comments, even when provoked. It just makes the thread worse.
- mSparks 10y agoplease take your life somewhere else.
- dang 10y agoWe ban accounts for being uncivil like this (and below), so please don't do this again. Instead, please (re)-read the following, and post civilly and substantively, or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
- DrScump 10y agoCurse you, interwebz, for triggering today's time suck by forcing me to surf deeper and deeper into PubMed. There is a bunch of new papers on AD-36 in just the last 8 weeks! Anyway, here are some points of interest: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4517116/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4517116/ "Adenovirus 36 and Obesity: An Overview" -- non-paywalled full text! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25479564 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25479564 Adenovirus 36 attenuates weight loss from exercise (!) but improves glycemic control by increasing mitochondrial activity in the liver. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27825952 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27825952 Adenovirus 36 antibody detection: Improving the standard serum neutralization assay. (The first assay I heard of, in 2001, cost about $500 then.) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24614097 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24614097 Proof-of-concept for a virus-induced obesity vaccine; vaccination against the obesity agent adenovirus 36 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27903748 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27903748 Hepatic Expression of Adenovirus 36 E4ORF1 Improves Glycemic Control and Promotes Glucose Metabolism via AKT Activation
- mtw 10y agoThe truth is that obesity is complex and does not have a single risk factor. Lack of exercise, over-eating, depression, anxiety, gut bacteria, food chemicals (emulsifiers, asapartame etc.), refined grains and now this virus all are risk factors. They also interact with each other, making understanding complex (see http://outcomereference.com/outcomes/3 http://outcomereference.com/outcomes/3 ) I am glad though they are researching this. If a vaccine could be found, it might decrease risk for a significant portion of the population. It does not negate the fact that dish portions in North America are much larger than they should be or that there is still too much processed food in the average american diet.