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The latest rev pushed me to a PC for the first time in like 15 years. It's partly because I didn't love the new Macbook Pro, but also cause hey..change is fun s

by enjo 10y ago

The latest rev pushed me to a PC for the first time in like 15 years. It's partly because I didn't love the new Macbook Pro, but also cause hey..change is fun sometimes. I'm very happy with my new Surface Book. I never thought I'd like the touchscreen as much as I do. I LOVE being able to go to tablet mode for calls and stuff where I sort of want to just wander around. The pen has completely changed how I do flow-charting and wire-framing. The new Linux subsystem thing is a god-send. It was completely seamless for me to transition from the Mac to Windows pretty much solely because there wasn't really a transition. All our provisioning and development scripts just worked. It's been fun to do a bit of gaming on it too :) The touchpad is really the only thing that I think compares poorly. Apple really nails that whole experience. After a few weeks I'm getting better with it, but it's still painful compared to the precision and certainty I had on my Macbook Pro. I'm sure I'll be back on a Macbook someday (cause hey, change is fun) but no regrets right now.

jkahn 10y ago
A few months ago I made a similar transition - to a Surface Pro 4. I'd been on Mac since 2009. Before that, Windows and Linux. I think you sum it up well - there are some rough edges in the Windows world, but there also are in the Mac world. I find I hardly use my iPad now.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  Oddly enough I find the track pad on the Surface Pro 4 keyboard to be the absolute BEST track pad I've ever used on a PC (even better than the one I played with on the Surface Book) which is...just absurd and odd. But hey I thought it was interesting just how much I liked it compared to everything else.
  - 72deluxe 10y ago
    I found that the gestures were odd, coming from a MacBook. I also notice that my MacBook's touchpad (whilst great in macOS) being absurdly dumb when I reboot to Windows on the same hardware.
FireBeyond 10y ago
Same here. My employer, who is almost exclusively Mac, were reluctant to get me the new MBP. I got a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition (Kaby Lake) and so far, so good. Am very happy. Like you say, I wish it had the Apple touchpad (but not the new one - that's getting _too_ big). Everything else is great. The Infinity Edge screen, beautiful keyboard...
- Fnoord 10y ago
  Been considering getting one. They come with option of Ubuntu. But I read too many complaints on things like coil whine, HiDPI, and low uptime on battery.
  - izacus 10y ago
    Hmm? Doesn't the Kaby Lake have like 20+ hours of battery life with the fullHD screen? 14 or so with the hiDPI?
    - endemic 10y ago
      In Windows. Driver issues in Linux drop battery life to more "normal" levels, IIRC.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    Did hear about coil whine - mine doesn't exhibit it. HiDPI looks pretty good for the most part. I largely run with AC power, so really need to test this (I've only had it since Friday).
anexprogrammer 10y ago
When I've switched back and forth (to Thinkpads), I don't miss the touchpad as I love the trackpoint. I do miss trackpoint a few months when I've switched to Mac, despite the excellent touchpad.
roystonvassey 10y ago
Strong opinions, weakly held :) But, yes, I transition from a Mac (home) to Windows (work) daily and while I can choose not to, I find that working on different OS and learning its nuances has taught me a lot about how my Python programs execute, for instance.
taigeair 10y ago
Could you elaborate on its impact on how you do development? One reason I still have a mac is because it's so developer friendly. Linux is very time-consuming to make things work with and is incompatible with various hardware. Also some mac software is great.
- BoorishBears 10y ago
  I have a Zenbook. Windows for development isn't nearly as convinent as OSX. Yes there's lots of customization you can do to make it bearable. Powershell isn't as awful as CMD, but projects aren't supporting Powershell as much as bash any time this decade AFAIK. The Linux subsystem works, but the flow between Windows and Linux is lacking. I tried Linux. Linux doesn't handle my mix of high DPI and normal DPI monitors (every month I'm told Wayland is going to support it "soon") so I can't use it. I know that sounds silly, but my monitors are a huge part of how I work. Not supporting my workspace is pretty much a non-starter. But to seal the deal it also crashed going to sleep a few times. So I installed OSX... on my Zenbook. Because somehow OS X managed to handle my hardware better than Ubuntu had (bar the stock wireless card), and it was developer friendly. I prefer brew to apt-get. Yes, apt-get is vastly more powerful, but I never had brew fail on me because a previous install had messed up. OS X also has a lot of mindshare. Tooling tends tend to progress from Linux and OS X in ease of use before entering a gulf and reaching Windows eventually. I got my copy of OSX legitimately, but to me it's telling I essentially had to go to "bootleg OSX" to get my hardware and software experiences in sync. OS X even supports the touchscreen as a mouse, not that I ever used the touchscreen on a laptop that only supports the laptop form factor and no others...
  - Synaesthesia 10y ago
    Hackintosh works really well if you have the compatible hardware. It's also my platform of choice.
    - TheOneTrueKyle 10y ago
      Couldn't recommend this enough, though I do wish I had portability
FussyZeus 10y ago
Our company is sticking with our current stockpile of 2012-2014 Macbooks. They have a lot of life left in them anyway, but when it comes to an office, having to reinvest in new, HUGE displays, new cabling, new laptops? Apple needs to come up with something more compelling than a stupid bar. And agree, at home, Windows 10's unix capabilities are amazing. Apple needs to dedicate some real resources to the Mac line and turn them back from being overpriced toys and back to useful tools.
- x0x0 10y ago
  I just bought a new mid 2015 mbp for that reason. Beyond the $300 price increase, there's an additional $400 backdoor price increase for additional chargers and a pile of dongles to replace all the functionality that currently works. Not throwing in a single usb-A port was the final fuck you that tipped me over the edge to the older generation.
  - nicky0 10y ago
    $400 for dongles? Got a breakdown on that?
    - Lio 10y ago
      Not the original poster but I'll have a go... 1. OWC Thunderbolt 3 dock so I can connect my existing monitor and wired network (not yet available): $279. 2. Replacement for my USB-A Superdrive: $39.99 3. Thunderbolt 3 hdmi media kit for presentations: $49 4. USB-C SD card reader: $29 5. USB-C to Lightning cable: $20 6. USB-C to USB-A dongle so I can connect my ANT+ dongle: $9 7. Power supply extension cable (you don't get that included anymore): $19 8. Probably would want a USB-C to microUSB lead too (although I could go through the USB-A adapter with existing cables): $19 Total: $463.99 That doesn't seem too outlandish a set up for me. I haven't included an extra PSU, VGA or TB3 to TB2 for example. Now I live in the UK and the exchange rate isn't doing us any favours at the moment so all of the above will be somewhat more expensive too.
      - 10y ago
icelancer 10y ago
I am shocked how often I use my touchscreen on my Dell XPS laptop. I started off never using it, now find myself using it regularly when I'm on the go (not docked obviously). Takes a bit of time to get acquainted, but I really enjoy it.
- jpkeisala 10y ago
  Same here, I thought I would never touch it and almost looked option without it. Glad I bought touchscreen.
  - scholia 10y ago
    Ditto. Last year, I made the mistake of buying a non-touch laptop thinking I didn't care that much. Had to take it back to the shop and swap it for a touch-screen machine....
    - slantyyz 10y ago
      If you want touch on your laptop and you're not ready to upgrade yet, you should check out the AirBar. You do need to buy the right bar for your screen size though. It's obviously not as good as a real touch screen, but it seems like a decent substitute until you can get one. Product Site: http://www.air.bar/ http://www.air.bar/ Video Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR5r1EfvheI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR5r1EfvheI
      - scholia 10y ago
        Many thanks, that's very interesting.
      - XaspR8d 10y ago
        No 17" models. :(
atmosx 10y ago
> The new Linux subsystem thing is a god-send. Does that mean I get a UNIX env/shell on windows?
- nikofeyn 10y ago
  yes.
- UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
  Yes. Ubuntu 14.04 specifically[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux
  - Bedon292 10y ago
    And 16.04 is on developer preview, so that should hopefully be coming to everyone soon. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/release_notes#build-14951 https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/release_not...
- shams93 10y ago
  The only painful bit is that they don't yet support the nvidia drivers, I'm doing rnn under the linux subsystem and it works great except I'm hurting for gpu access. If you plan on using windows subsystem for linux for machine learning don't bother spending money on a GPU https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt-console-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windo/suggestions/16108045-opencl-cuda-gpu-support https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt-con...
- stinos 10y ago
  Yup, and to my (and many others' surprise), this thing works actually very well. Not every single app will run but all of the basics for what we need here (mainly gcc) seem to be fine. And it runs graphical apps as well: run an X server on Windows (Moba XTerm or so), export DISPLAY=:0 and of you go. Only tried it with SublimeText so far and that worked out so no complaints yet.
sbuttgereit 10y ago
To the touch experience you describe, I would add that the terminal support is also rather "meh". I use WSL a lot during the day; and the stock terminal is way not good and third party options such as conemu are OK, but still comes with annoying issues. My emacs quality time gets messed up because of some of these issues... there may be no way around some of that and it may simply be the reality of a system that maps certain keys one way and a subsystem that would like them another. Otherwise, I own a Surface Book for travel and tablet like usage and I use a Lenovo workstation for my day-to-day stuff. All Win 10. Very happy overall.
lobster_johnson 10y ago
I'm also considering a switch, but Windows drives me up the wall whenever I touch it. macOS has been getting uglier and more awkward to use the last few years, but Windows is still the king of ugly. So I've been considering Linux as my first option. I fired up a few VMs and dipped my toes in various Linux desktop environments: Elementary, Fedora 25, and Ubuntu (Unity) so far. These are all GNOME 3 variants. And... oh boy. Linux land really needs some kind of unifying revolution to happen, because this is a mess. Things have gotten a little smoother in the decade or so since I was last exploring Linux desktops, but it's like they're still figuring out what it's supposed to even be. GNOME feels like it's stuck between trying to be Windows and OS X, with some super weird details (like the launcher thing) that makes it feel like they had plans to build a touch screen OS for tablets or something. Meanwhile, there's little consistency between apps (and Elementary tries to remove menu bars as a concept, what's up with that?), and everything feels put together randomly by people with widely divergent ideas of what a kind of desktop environment to aspire to. It also struck me how much competition there is -- there are at least three GNOME forks (two of 3.x, one of 2.x), for example -- a situation which seems to exist partly due to infighting. Maybe with out tweaking and plugins and customization you can beat it into some shape that lets you work efficiently, but the experience put me off, to be honest. I don't like being that negative, but I was a bit shocked about how bad it was. Mint was next on my list, but I'm not sure I will continue since it's another GNOME 3 fork.
- bsg75 10y ago
  This is why I always return to XFCE. It may not be rapidly evolving, but if I'm running a Linux desktop, I want simple.
  - m_mueller 10y ago
    On what Distro though? What should I try if I want something that pretty much works out of the box i.e. has acceptable battery life + WiFi + Sound + Suspend mode on a Macbook / Latitude / Thinkpad without me having to set up config files according to all kinds of internet sources for a day... or even a week?
gct 10y ago
/r/hailcorporate
- Synaesthesia 10y ago
  I'm a big supporter of open source and anti-corporate but if you can tell me which open source hardware is up to standard I'd use that.
dawnerd 10y ago
Latest Macbook Pro drove me to finally switch to Ubuntu for my main dev machine. It sucks not having some of the mac apps I'm used to but I've had nearly 0 problems since switching.
_Codemonkeyism 10y ago
Same here, switched to a Dell XPS13 after 15 years of macs (Still use an iMac at work). Dell quality has been very bad though, I'm not amused. Linux bash on Windows also helped me a lot to transition development work to Windows.
- 20andup 10y ago
  I just bought an xps 15 running arch linux to replace my mba 13. The build quality is poorer for sure. My main complains. Keyboard: - Cheap plastic that doesn't feel nice to type for long hours - Oh I miss the mac keyboard layout, the control and alt keys on are hard to adjust on windows and linux especially when copy and paste puts your fingers in awkward positions Touchpad: - Good, but still a ways to go compared to macs. I am buying a MX Master to compensate for this. Battery Life: - Over exaggeration of duration in advertisement Its aesthetically pleasing but the general everyday use just doesn't physically feel great. With a macbook, its very easy to focus cause every command is almost second nature. With the xps, I have look back at the keyboard all the time to see what's going on. I need a linux machine so I don't have much choice. Or I can pay almost triple the price for a macbook pro for the same specs and even slower vm on top.
  - scholia 10y ago
    > I just bought an xps 15 running arch linux to replace my mba 13. The build quality is poorer for sure. and > Or I can pay almost triple the price for a macbook pro for the same specs and even slower vm on top. ;-)
  - tannhaeuser 10y ago
    What's the problem with the XPS keyboards? I have an XPS 13 skylake (early 2016) and I absolutely love the keyboard. I'm saying this as a touch typist who actually used a Model M keyboard (best keyboard ever made, period; fingers just fly over it) back in the day. I found the XPS keyboards way better than that of Mac notebooks, especially the newer ones found in last year's 12" Macbook, and now in the Macbook Pros.
dev_256 10y ago
Sometimes I wounder how much of HN comments is content advertisement.
- B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
  Unauthorized, not much, I think we're well ... hmm ... supervised ... (Authorized, not much either, it impedes unicorn hunting. Incidentally that's why jwz hates this place - slept under his desk for the delicious unicorn meat, has strong feelings about campers.)
somecallitblues 10y ago
What kind of anti virus program did you buy for it?
- kozak 10y ago
  You don't need to buy them anymore. Microsoft's one comes built in.
  - kbart 10y ago
    I wouldn't recommend it as it fails in pretty much any test I've seen. However, there are plenty of good, free antivirus software for Windows. I use Avast (free).
72deluxe 10y ago
I would love to use Windows all the time at home but as my Windows 10 installation believes it is up to date (but is clearly an old build number, irritatingly/stupidly only visible in the settings app and not my computer > Properties), it really is not up to date and I have no idea when Microsoft will decide that it is. It's rubbish. And the lack of consistency throughout the OS (icons different everywhere, duplication of settings app despite same underlying COM snap-ins, settings app titlebar isn't really a titlebar, 3 different right-click menus - one for the Start menu, one for Edge, one for everywhere else) it is driving me insane. You have to learn all of these edge cases on how to interact with core OS windows. That shouldn't be the case!! Windows 3.11 came with a manual (I have it) that informed you how to interact with the desktop and windows. Just imagine the mess they'd have to write for Windows 10 - "drag the blue bar at the top, unless it is the settings app, where there is no blue bar and you can't tell where the titlebar ends and the toolbar begins"; "single click on buttons, unless you are presented with the 'open with which app?' dialog where you will be able to double-click on the button that has the name of the application you wish to use" etc etc etc EDIT: And I say all this where I use my PC all day at work as a C++ Windows dev and Windows at home when I need to cross-compile. Don't get me started on the lack of future for the MFC codebase we have at work.
- yoz-y 10y ago
  Just to chime in that my windows 10 also still does not want to go to the Anniversary version. I have tried the auto update and the manual installer to no avail. Reinstalling the whole system did nothing as well. I have a standard 2014 mbp so the configuration is all but banal. Everybody is raving about the Linux subsystem but as far as I am concerned it does not exist.
  - 72deluxe 10y ago
    Yep that's the problem I am faced with too. My work PC is also on Windows 10 but not on the anniversary update, so I have no idea what wonderful new delights everyone is partying about. How can I be sure I am running a secure up to date system if the "am I up to date check" essentially lies to me?
Fiahil 10y ago
If not buying the new MBP is scary enough for Apple to make them really work on their laptops, I will stay a bit longer on my 2013 MBP. What's reassuring is that we need a Mac to work/compile iOS apps. Until they port the toolchain to iOS, not taking care of the Mac could be dangerous to their ecosystem.
guftagu 10y ago
I've honestly tried hard trying to use the Linux subsystem but I always end up hitting a roadblock because of some feature they don't support yet. Recently I tried installing postgres 9.5 and failed. There is also no sync between Windows files and those in Linux. Additionally so far I haven't seen a single good terminal emulator in Windows with the looks and features of Pantheon or iterm.
mcv 10y ago
It's been several years now that I've been wondering if my current Macbook might be my last one. I love the one I have (it's a late 2011 17" Macbook Pro with a ton of custom upgrades), but they don't make anything like it anymore, it's harder to do your own upgrades, and new versions of their beautiful OS are getting uglier. Windows is a no go for me. I want a unix underneath, and Windows has its own share of ugly (though I do keep hearing nice things about Surface). I haven't looked at Linux distros lately, but I'm hoping there's one that's as nice and pretty as OS X in its better days.
scholia 10y ago
> The touchpad is really the only thing that I think compares poorly. Which is why Surface Pro owners often turn to these: https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/productID.305934600 https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/productI... > I'm sure I'll be back on a Macbook someday (cause hey, change is fun) but no regrets right now. After a few years with Surface touch and pen, going back to a Mac is like having a limb removed....
missmymac 10y ago
I tried windows. I stopped because I didn't like all the telemetry they collect on users, including your keystroke and stylus movements. They say they do this to train Cortana, but it has the side effect of giving the NSA a front row seat to everything I do.
- binthere 10y ago
  You known this is optional, right? You can turn it off during and after installation of Windows. Also, Android and iOS + most of the popular apps you use, including the desktop ones, use some kind of tracking/telemetry and you don't even have the option to disable.
kabdib 10y ago
Actively taking my Mac environment into a Linux one. Have been for a couple of weeks now. [1] I use PCs for most of my development work, and Macs when I can (when I'm doing the more ops-like bits of devops, and for personal use). The MacOS environment is really nice, and the Windows tools for writing native code are really good, but the writing is on the wall: Own your computing environment or you will working at someone's sufferance. I'm not going to go full bull-goose Stallman, but it seems like a worthwhile thing to do. [1] It's rocky. Device support is spotty, and user interfaces are often staggeringly bad. Maybe with more people piling on things will get better.

by enjo 10y ago

jkahn 10y ago

A few months ago I made a similar transition - to a Surface Pro 4. I'd been on Mac since 2009. Before that, Windows and Linux. I think you sum it up well - there are some rough edges in the Windows world, but there also are in the Mac world. I find I hardly use my iPad now.

BinaryIdiot 10y ago
Oddly enough I find the track pad on the Surface Pro 4 keyboard to be the absolute BEST track pad I've ever used on a PC (even better than the one I played with on the Surface Book) which is...just absurd and odd. But hey I thought it was interesting just how much I liked it compared to everything else.
- 72deluxe 10y ago
  I found that the gestures were odd, coming from a MacBook. I also notice that my MacBook's touchpad (whilst great in macOS) being absurdly dumb when I reboot to Windows on the same hardware.

FireBeyond 10y ago

Same here. My employer, who is almost exclusively Mac, were reluctant to get me the new MBP. I got a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition (Kaby Lake) and so far, so good. Am very happy. Like you say, I wish it had the Apple touchpad (but not the new one - that's getting _too_ big). Everything else is great. The Infinity Edge screen, beautiful keyboard...

Fnoord 10y ago
Been considering getting one. They come with option of Ubuntu. But I read too many complaints on things like coil whine, HiDPI, and low uptime on battery.
- izacus 10y ago
  Hmm? Doesn't the Kaby Lake have like 20+ hours of battery life with the fullHD screen? 14 or so with the hiDPI?
  - endemic 10y ago
    In Windows. Driver issues in Linux drop battery life to more "normal" levels, IIRC.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  Did hear about coil whine - mine doesn't exhibit it. HiDPI looks pretty good for the most part. I largely run with AC power, so really need to test this (I've only had it since Friday).

anexprogrammer 10y ago

When I've switched back and forth (to Thinkpads), I don't miss the touchpad as I love the trackpoint. I do miss trackpoint a few months when I've switched to Mac, despite the excellent touchpad.

roystonvassey 10y ago

Strong opinions, weakly held :) But, yes, I transition from a Mac (home) to Windows (work) daily and while I can choose not to, I find that working on different OS and learning its nuances has taught me a lot about how my Python programs execute, for instance.

taigeair 10y ago

Could you elaborate on its impact on how you do development? One reason I still have a mac is because it's so developer friendly. Linux is very time-consuming to make things work with and is incompatible with various hardware. Also some mac software is great.

BoorishBears 10y ago
I have a Zenbook. Windows for development isn't nearly as convinent as OSX. Yes there's lots of customization you can do to make it bearable. Powershell isn't as awful as CMD, but projects aren't supporting Powershell as much as bash any time this decade AFAIK. The Linux subsystem works, but the flow between Windows and Linux is lacking. I tried Linux. Linux doesn't handle my mix of high DPI and normal DPI monitors (every month I'm told Wayland is going to support it "soon") so I can't use it. I know that sounds silly, but my monitors are a huge part of how I work. Not supporting my workspace is pretty much a non-starter. But to seal the deal it also crashed going to sleep a few times. So I installed OSX... on my Zenbook. Because somehow OS X managed to handle my hardware better than Ubuntu had (bar the stock wireless card), and it was developer friendly. I prefer brew to apt-get. Yes, apt-get is vastly more powerful, but I never had brew fail on me because a previous install had messed up. OS X also has a lot of mindshare. Tooling tends tend to progress from Linux and OS X in ease of use before entering a gulf and reaching Windows eventually. I got my copy of OSX legitimately, but to me it's telling I essentially had to go to "bootleg OSX" to get my hardware and software experiences in sync. OS X even supports the touchscreen as a mouse, not that I ever used the touchscreen on a laptop that only supports the laptop form factor and no others...
- Synaesthesia 10y ago
  Hackintosh works really well if you have the compatible hardware. It's also my platform of choice.
  - TheOneTrueKyle 10y ago
    Couldn't recommend this enough, though I do wish I had portability

FussyZeus 10y ago

Our company is sticking with our current stockpile of 2012-2014 Macbooks. They have a lot of life left in them anyway, but when it comes to an office, having to reinvest in new, HUGE displays, new cabling, new laptops? Apple needs to come up with something more compelling than a stupid bar. And agree, at home, Windows 10's unix capabilities are amazing. Apple needs to dedicate some real resources to the Mac line and turn them back from being overpriced toys and back to useful tools.

x0x0 10y ago
I just bought a new mid 2015 mbp for that reason. Beyond the $300 price increase, there's an additional $400 backdoor price increase for additional chargers and a pile of dongles to replace all the functionality that currently works. Not throwing in a single usb-A port was the final fuck you that tipped me over the edge to the older generation.
- nicky0 10y ago
  $400 for dongles? Got a breakdown on that?
  - Lio 10y ago
    Not the original poster but I'll have a go... 1. OWC Thunderbolt 3 dock so I can connect my existing monitor and wired network (not yet available): $279. 2. Replacement for my USB-A Superdrive: $39.99 3. Thunderbolt 3 hdmi media kit for presentations: $49 4. USB-C SD card reader: $29 5. USB-C to Lightning cable: $20 6. USB-C to USB-A dongle so I can connect my ANT+ dongle: $9 7. Power supply extension cable (you don't get that included anymore): $19 8. Probably would want a USB-C to microUSB lead too (although I could go through the USB-A adapter with existing cables): $19 Total: $463.99 That doesn't seem too outlandish a set up for me. I haven't included an extra PSU, VGA or TB3 to TB2 for example. Now I live in the UK and the exchange rate isn't doing us any favours at the moment so all of the above will be somewhat more expensive too.
    - 10y ago

icelancer 10y ago

I am shocked how often I use my touchscreen on my Dell XPS laptop. I started off never using it, now find myself using it regularly when I'm on the go (not docked obviously). Takes a bit of time to get acquainted, but I really enjoy it.

jpkeisala 10y ago
Same here, I thought I would never touch it and almost looked option without it. Glad I bought touchscreen.
- scholia 10y ago
  Ditto. Last year, I made the mistake of buying a non-touch laptop thinking I didn't care that much. Had to take it back to the shop and swap it for a touch-screen machine....
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    If you want touch on your laptop and you're not ready to upgrade yet, you should check out the AirBar. You do need to buy the right bar for your screen size though. It's obviously not as good as a real touch screen, but it seems like a decent substitute until you can get one. Product Site: http://www.air.bar/ http://www.air.bar/ Video Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR5r1EfvheI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR5r1EfvheI
    - scholia 10y ago
      Many thanks, that's very interesting.
    - XaspR8d 10y ago
      No 17" models. :(

atmosx 10y ago

> The new Linux subsystem thing is a god-send. Does that mean I get a UNIX env/shell on windows?

nikofeyn 10y ago
yes.
UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
Yes. Ubuntu 14.04 specifically[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux
- Bedon292 10y ago
  And 16.04 is on developer preview, so that should hopefully be coming to everyone soon. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/release_notes#build-14951 https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/release_not...
shams93 10y ago
The only painful bit is that they don't yet support the nvidia drivers, I'm doing rnn under the linux subsystem and it works great except I'm hurting for gpu access. If you plan on using windows subsystem for linux for machine learning don't bother spending money on a GPU https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt-console-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windo/suggestions/16108045-opencl-cuda-gpu-support https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt-con...
stinos 10y ago
Yup, and to my (and many others' surprise), this thing works actually very well. Not every single app will run but all of the basics for what we need here (mainly gcc) seem to be fine. And it runs graphical apps as well: run an X server on Windows (Moba XTerm or so), export DISPLAY=:0 and of you go. Only tried it with SublimeText so far and that worked out so no complaints yet.

sbuttgereit 10y ago

To the touch experience you describe, I would add that the terminal support is also rather "meh". I use WSL a lot during the day; and the stock terminal is way not good and third party options such as conemu are OK, but still comes with annoying issues. My emacs quality time gets messed up because of some of these issues... there may be no way around some of that and it may simply be the reality of a system that maps certain keys one way and a subsystem that would like them another. Otherwise, I own a Surface Book for travel and tablet like usage and I use a Lenovo workstation for my day-to-day stuff. All Win 10. Very happy overall.

lobster_johnson 10y ago

I'm also considering a switch, but Windows drives me up the wall whenever I touch it. macOS has been getting uglier and more awkward to use the last few years, but Windows is still the king of ugly. So I've been considering Linux as my first option. I fired up a few VMs and dipped my toes in various Linux desktop environments: Elementary, Fedora 25, and Ubuntu (Unity) so far. These are all GNOME 3 variants. And... oh boy. Linux land really needs some kind of unifying revolution to happen, because this is a mess. Things have gotten a little smoother in the decade or so since I was last exploring Linux desktops, but it's like they're still figuring out what it's supposed to even be. GNOME feels like it's stuck between trying to be Windows and OS X, with some super weird details (like the launcher thing) that makes it feel like they had plans to build a touch screen OS for tablets or something. Meanwhile, there's little consistency between apps (and Elementary tries to remove menu bars as a concept, what's up with that?), and everything feels put together randomly by people with widely divergent ideas of what a kind of desktop environment to aspire to. It also struck me how much competition there is -- there are at least three GNOME forks (two of 3.x, one of 2.x), for example -- a situation which seems to exist partly due to infighting. Maybe with out tweaking and plugins and customization you can beat it into some shape that lets you work efficiently, but the experience put me off, to be honest. I don't like being that negative, but I was a bit shocked about how bad it was. Mint was next on my list, but I'm not sure I will continue since it's another GNOME 3 fork.

bsg75 10y ago
This is why I always return to XFCE. It may not be rapidly evolving, but if I'm running a Linux desktop, I want simple.
- m_mueller 10y ago
  On what Distro though? What should I try if I want something that pretty much works out of the box i.e. has acceptable battery life + WiFi + Sound + Suspend mode on a Macbook / Latitude / Thinkpad without me having to set up config files according to all kinds of internet sources for a day... or even a week?

gct 10y ago

/r/hailcorporate

Synaesthesia 10y ago
I'm a big supporter of open source and anti-corporate but if you can tell me which open source hardware is up to standard I'd use that.

dawnerd 10y ago

Latest Macbook Pro drove me to finally switch to Ubuntu for my main dev machine. It sucks not having some of the mac apps I'm used to but I've had nearly 0 problems since switching.

_Codemonkeyism 10y ago

Same here, switched to a Dell XPS13 after 15 years of macs (Still use an iMac at work). Dell quality has been very bad though, I'm not amused. Linux bash on Windows also helped me a lot to transition development work to Windows.

20andup 10y ago
I just bought an xps 15 running arch linux to replace my mba 13. The build quality is poorer for sure. My main complains. Keyboard: - Cheap plastic that doesn't feel nice to type for long hours - Oh I miss the mac keyboard layout, the control and alt keys on are hard to adjust on windows and linux especially when copy and paste puts your fingers in awkward positions Touchpad: - Good, but still a ways to go compared to macs. I am buying a MX Master to compensate for this. Battery Life: - Over exaggeration of duration in advertisement Its aesthetically pleasing but the general everyday use just doesn't physically feel great. With a macbook, its very easy to focus cause every command is almost second nature. With the xps, I have look back at the keyboard all the time to see what's going on. I need a linux machine so I don't have much choice. Or I can pay almost triple the price for a macbook pro for the same specs and even slower vm on top.
- scholia 10y ago
  > I just bought an xps 15 running arch linux to replace my mba 13. The build quality is poorer for sure. and > Or I can pay almost triple the price for a macbook pro for the same specs and even slower vm on top. ;-)
- tannhaeuser 10y ago
  What's the problem with the XPS keyboards? I have an XPS 13 skylake (early 2016) and I absolutely love the keyboard. I'm saying this as a touch typist who actually used a Model M keyboard (best keyboard ever made, period; fingers just fly over it) back in the day. I found the XPS keyboards way better than that of Mac notebooks, especially the newer ones found in last year's 12" Macbook, and now in the Macbook Pros.

dev_256 10y ago

Sometimes I wounder how much of HN comments is content advertisement.

B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
Unauthorized, not much, I think we're well ... hmm ... supervised ... (Authorized, not much either, it impedes unicorn hunting. Incidentally that's why jwz hates this place - slept under his desk for the delicious unicorn meat, has strong feelings about campers.)

somecallitblues 10y ago

What kind of anti virus program did you buy for it?

kozak 10y ago
You don't need to buy them anymore. Microsoft's one comes built in.
- kbart 10y ago
  I wouldn't recommend it as it fails in pretty much any test I've seen. However, there are plenty of good, free antivirus software for Windows. I use Avast (free).

72deluxe 10y ago

I would love to use Windows all the time at home but as my Windows 10 installation believes it is up to date (but is clearly an old build number, irritatingly/stupidly only visible in the settings app and not my computer > Properties), it really is not up to date and I have no idea when Microsoft will decide that it is. It's rubbish. And the lack of consistency throughout the OS (icons different everywhere, duplication of settings app despite same underlying COM snap-ins, settings app titlebar isn't really a titlebar, 3 different right-click menus - one for the Start menu, one for Edge, one for everywhere else) it is driving me insane. You have to learn all of these edge cases on how to interact with core OS windows. That shouldn't be the case!! Windows 3.11 came with a manual (I have it) that informed you how to interact with the desktop and windows. Just imagine the mess they'd have to write for Windows 10 - "drag the blue bar at the top, unless it is the settings app, where there is no blue bar and you can't tell where the titlebar ends and the toolbar begins"; "single click on buttons, unless you are presented with the 'open with which app?' dialog where you will be able to double-click on the button that has the name of the application you wish to use" etc etc etc EDIT: And I say all this where I use my PC all day at work as a C++ Windows dev and Windows at home when I need to cross-compile. Don't get me started on the lack of future for the MFC codebase we have at work.

yoz-y 10y ago
Just to chime in that my windows 10 also still does not want to go to the Anniversary version. I have tried the auto update and the manual installer to no avail. Reinstalling the whole system did nothing as well. I have a standard 2014 mbp so the configuration is all but banal. Everybody is raving about the Linux subsystem but as far as I am concerned it does not exist.
- 72deluxe 10y ago
  Yep that's the problem I am faced with too. My work PC is also on Windows 10 but not on the anniversary update, so I have no idea what wonderful new delights everyone is partying about. How can I be sure I am running a secure up to date system if the "am I up to date check" essentially lies to me?

Fiahil 10y ago

If not buying the new MBP is scary enough for Apple to make them really work on their laptops, I will stay a bit longer on my 2013 MBP. What's reassuring is that we need a Mac to work/compile iOS apps. Until they port the toolchain to iOS, not taking care of the Mac could be dangerous to their ecosystem.

guftagu 10y ago

I've honestly tried hard trying to use the Linux subsystem but I always end up hitting a roadblock because of some feature they don't support yet. Recently I tried installing postgres 9.5 and failed. There is also no sync between Windows files and those in Linux. Additionally so far I haven't seen a single good terminal emulator in Windows with the looks and features of Pantheon or iterm.

mcv 10y ago

It's been several years now that I've been wondering if my current Macbook might be my last one. I love the one I have (it's a late 2011 17" Macbook Pro with a ton of custom upgrades), but they don't make anything like it anymore, it's harder to do your own upgrades, and new versions of their beautiful OS are getting uglier. Windows is a no go for me. I want a unix underneath, and Windows has its own share of ugly (though I do keep hearing nice things about Surface). I haven't looked at Linux distros lately, but I'm hoping there's one that's as nice and pretty as OS X in its better days.

scholia 10y ago

> The touchpad is really the only thing that I think compares poorly. Which is why Surface Pro owners often turn to these: https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/productID.305934600 https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/productI... > I'm sure I'll be back on a Macbook someday (cause hey, change is fun) but no regrets right now. After a few years with Surface touch and pen, going back to a Mac is like having a limb removed....

missmymac 10y ago

I tried windows. I stopped because I didn't like all the telemetry they collect on users, including your keystroke and stylus movements. They say they do this to train Cortana, but it has the side effect of giving the NSA a front row seat to everything I do.

binthere 10y ago
You known this is optional, right? You can turn it off during and after installation of Windows. Also, Android and iOS + most of the popular apps you use, including the desktop ones, use some kind of tracking/telemetry and you don't even have the option to disable.

kabdib 10y ago

Actively taking my Mac environment into a Linux one. Have been for a couple of weeks now. [1] I use PCs for most of my development work, and Macs when I can (when I'm doing the more ops-like bits of devops, and for personal use). The MacOS environment is really nice, and the Windows tools for writing native code are really good, but the writing is on the wall: Own your computing environment or you will working at someone's sufferance. I'm not going to go full bull-goose Stallman, but it seems like a worthwhile thing to do. [1] It's rocky. Device support is spotty, and user interfaces are often staggeringly bad. Maybe with more people piling on things will get better.