4 ms·

I'm not sure I 'get' the aims of the college here. Why is it important for these students to be in class? I would expect the important bits from the colleges pe

I'm not sure I 'get' the aims of the college here. Why is it important for these students to be in class? I would expect the important bits from the colleges perspective would be: Did the student pay tuition? Did the student learn the material the class covered? I can't see any other things the university need worry about and I can't see how either of those two questions could lead to the need for some strict attendance policies that are connected to student grades. Perhaps, the school is concerned that if people don't come to class and still do well it will become common knowledge that students can learn the same material more effectively on their own. Bad news, I think that cats already out of the bag.

joezydeco 16y ago
As a parent who plans to pay for my son's college education, I think I'd like this system. It's a lot harder for a student to whine "I'm failing this class! This biased professor hates me!" while being able to discover that sonny-boy was only in class 25% of the time.
- philk 16y ago
  Tell your kids you'll only pay for classes they pass and don't accept any excuses. I never found lectures to be particularly useful anyway.
  - jimbokun 16y ago
    Did you ask questions? If there were too many students to ask questions, I agree. In that case, you might as well be watching a video lecture at your own convenience. I find the ability to ask at least an occasional question during a lecture, however, a big part of the value of taking a college course.
    - philk 16y ago
      The lectures were unfortunately too big to ask questions. Ultimately I found that to learn effectively I needed to try applying the material to problems, try to solve the problems, and then use questions to overcome any sticking points I was having. I'm not sure it can really be done effectively in anything but the smallest of classes.
  - FluidDjango 16y ago
    > I never found lectures to be particularly useful anyway. Nor I. You and I are not the norm (evidence: we are on HN). But I have taught in a community college in rural/bluecollar area where the only hope that some students had of breaking out of their apathetic, educationally-clueless family/community was to have instructor(s) who mentored them - that is connected personally. Being present in class was not sufficient for them to transcend the crippling effects of their upbringings. But it was the first (and necessary) step for those without other mentors in their lives. [ Apologies for any arrogant sound in the above. Calling it like I have seen it. ]
    - tseabrooks 16y ago
      Hmmm. I'm 26 and I still forget all the times my dad admonish me for overestimating people. "You can't assume everyone else thinks like you do or knows all the things you do". I think the problem though is when you 'require' all students to be in class as part of your grade. This is little different than classrooms in a high school that are set up to help students falling behind that end up hurting / punishing the top performing students.
  - drewcrawford 16y ago
    Your advice is in fact superior. But, from the university's standpoint, which strategy is a better selling point? Tracking attendance "solves" the problem of, you know, actually having to parent your kids. I bet there's a lot of parents who want to pay for that.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  > while being able to discover that sonny-boy was only in class 25% of the time. If that's the case the problem likely commenced at a much earlier date, and no RFID'ing is going to change it.
harry 16y ago
It is a waste of resources for a college to recruit, advise and coddle an incoming class of students to only lose 20-25% of them due to fail outs after the first two semesters. Retention is a huge issue at state level universities. It's not really important that every kid goes to class, it's important for the university to be able to identify when a kid who usually goes to class suddenly stops. Computer attendance tracking is something the administration of KU have tossed around. They want to do a few things with it: 1. provide an early indication whether or not a student may be struggling due to something like alcohol abuse or personal difficulties that the university has structures/programs existing for support. (here, they will likely avoid the more big brother tag readers or "id card swipes in class" and use a metrics looking at meal plan use, gym activities, and student activity involvement.) 2. They'd like to very quickly nail down who is in what room in case of an emergency. (Chem lab catching fire, gunman, rabid badgers) This is pretty much a C-Y-A maneuver. 3. provide a system to the faculty that do pass around paper to opt-in and use. The paper passing around is hokey and requiring students to purchase a 50$ license for a 50$ 'click pad' ontop of the 150$ book is seen as asinine. I don't necessarily agree with any of this, it's just what has been discussed here.

joezydeco 16y ago

As a parent who plans to pay for my son's college education, I think I'd like this system. It's a lot harder for a student to whine "I'm failing this class! This biased professor hates me!" while being able to discover that sonny-boy was only in class 25% of the time.

philk 16y ago
Tell your kids you'll only pay for classes they pass and don't accept any excuses. I never found lectures to be particularly useful anyway.
- jimbokun 16y ago
  Did you ask questions? If there were too many students to ask questions, I agree. In that case, you might as well be watching a video lecture at your own convenience. I find the ability to ask at least an occasional question during a lecture, however, a big part of the value of taking a college course.
  - philk 16y ago
    The lectures were unfortunately too big to ask questions. Ultimately I found that to learn effectively I needed to try applying the material to problems, try to solve the problems, and then use questions to overcome any sticking points I was having. I'm not sure it can really be done effectively in anything but the smallest of classes.
- FluidDjango 16y ago
  > I never found lectures to be particularly useful anyway. Nor I. You and I are not the norm (evidence: we are on HN). But I have taught in a community college in rural/bluecollar area where the only hope that some students had of breaking out of their apathetic, educationally-clueless family/community was to have instructor(s) who mentored them - that is connected personally. Being present in class was not sufficient for them to transcend the crippling effects of their upbringings. But it was the first (and necessary) step for those without other mentors in their lives. [ Apologies for any arrogant sound in the above. Calling it like I have seen it. ]
  - tseabrooks 16y ago
    Hmmm. I'm 26 and I still forget all the times my dad admonish me for overestimating people. "You can't assume everyone else thinks like you do or knows all the things you do". I think the problem though is when you 'require' all students to be in class as part of your grade. This is little different than classrooms in a high school that are set up to help students falling behind that end up hurting / punishing the top performing students.
- drewcrawford 16y ago
  Your advice is in fact superior. But, from the university's standpoint, which strategy is a better selling point? Tracking attendance "solves" the problem of, you know, actually having to parent your kids. I bet there's a lot of parents who want to pay for that.
jacquesm 16y ago
> while being able to discover that sonny-boy was only in class 25% of the time. If that's the case the problem likely commenced at a much earlier date, and no RFID'ing is going to change it.

harry 16y ago

It is a waste of resources for a college to recruit, advise and coddle an incoming class of students to only lose 20-25% of them due to fail outs after the first two semesters. Retention is a huge issue at state level universities. It's not really important that every kid goes to class, it's important for the university to be able to identify when a kid who usually goes to class suddenly stops. Computer attendance tracking is something the administration of KU have tossed around. They want to do a few things with it: 1. provide an early indication whether or not a student may be struggling due to something like alcohol abuse or personal difficulties that the university has structures/programs existing for support. (here, they will likely avoid the more big brother tag readers or "id card swipes in class" and use a metrics looking at meal plan use, gym activities, and student activity involvement.) 2. They'd like to very quickly nail down who is in what room in case of an emergency. (Chem lab catching fire, gunman, rabid badgers) This is pretty much a C-Y-A maneuver. 3. provide a system to the faculty that do pass around paper to opt-in and use. The paper passing around is hokey and requiring students to purchase a 50$ license for a 50$ 'click pad' ontop of the 150$ book is seen as asinine. I don't necessarily agree with any of this, it's just what has been discussed here.