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Chinese smiths forge a large flange on the street [video]
- dmreedy 10y agoThey way they maneuvered those forklifts in the beginning almost reminded me of watching ants dragging a large bit of scavenge back to the colony, or any sort of insect with limited manipulation affordances (mandibles, maybe forelegs). I wonder how long it takes the brain to learn to translate to limited output. I remember being utterly baffled and clumsy my first time playing a twin stick first person shooter. Is the process generalizable to any sort of 'get my output devices to do my intention' process (i.e., does the same process wire you to learn to play a musical instrument, or type)?
- Gravityloss 10y agoWith a few exoskeleton suits it would be possible to make such custom forged pieces quite fast. The forklift is a little bit cumbersome, while the manual workers don't have enough strength.
- falcolas 10y agoHonestly, I didn't see a lot of wasted time in that - the individual moves were happening as quickly as the hammer could go up and come back down; only the gross moves to change out tools or go back to the forge seemed less than optimal.
- henrikschroder 10y agoLook at the Swedish forging video someone posted above, they have a "forklift" with a pretty cool mechanical gripper, which is acting like a big hand for the operator.
- mtw 10y agoWhat are these pieces used for? They seem very rough
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- cannonpr 10y agoHave a look at the end of the video, you will see it's finishing process in snapshots to engineering specs. The main process you are seeing is only the initial forging before you use higher accuracy machinery for the final processing.
- falcolas 10y agoAnd with a total time less than it would take to machine the same piece out of an appropriately sized block of solid steel. Forging is frequently used to get to an approximate shape, even in things as simple as forks.
- jaclaz 10y agoAdditionally - generally speaking - forged steel has better mechanical properties than cast steel. Example: http://www.atcgroup.com.au/CustomCastingForging/TheDifferenceBetweenCastingForging.aspx http://www.atcgroup.com.au/CustomCastingForging/TheDifferenc...
- agumonkey 10y agoI was wondering why not cast it to a ring mold then finalize the shape ?
- 10y ago
- krona 10y agoVery cool (and hot.) Here is a Swedish version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEF2erBBVZ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEF2erBBVZ4 (first 3 minutes)
- lkajsd 10y agoThis looks significantly safer therefore less impressive. Stupid i know but it's true.
- icebraining 10y agoThat's subjective. To me the forces exerted by those machines (particularly the first "upsetting" and "punching") look more impressive than the "hammer it out" approach.
- maxerickson 10y agoIt'd be interesting to see a comparison of the economics and flexibility of the two foundries.
- usrusr 10y agoThat is the most interesting question about old industrialized countries vs "China" (put in quotes because they certainly have developed beyond a pure low-wage approach by now). The high per-hour productivity achieved by highly optimized automation seems to come at a cost that is difficult to quantify. One year you might proudly undercut an army of low wage welders with your sophisticated welding robots. But if a year later the market suddenly demands carbon fiber, then your robots will weld on at a loss to at least partially recoup their investment while the welders are retrained for doing prepreg layups. The difference is ultimately rooted in the initial wage differential, but the consequences go beyond price.
- maxerickson 10y agoThe machinery at the Swedish foundry actually looks pretty flexible to me. One of the big differences I saw was the hydraulics, so they could do a step very quickly, where the hammer might take several drops to accomplish the same thing.
- amiramir 10y agoI love the teamwork and mutual understanding. I'd have a hard time making a circular object like that out of clay, yet these guys collaborate to make this massive thing with very little drama (or explicit communication). As a software person I love me a bit of metal bashing :-)
- keehun 10y agoIt would be awesome to know how long their apprenticeship period was—or is there even one? That nonverbal communication is impressive, and the picture at the end gives me the impression that they're proud as a team of their work.
- fallinghawks 10y agoI was thoroughly impressed by the precise manipulation with the forklifts, particularly the rotation while they were punching the hole in the center. One guy pushes it at an offset angle, which rotates it, then the other repositions it to center. It's almost like a dance.
- mschuster91 10y agoHaving driven a couple of forklifts and excavators some years ago, yes, this takes quite a load of skill - especially that they basically did not communicate at all.
- jjcc 10y agoFor the precision, here's a video that I can find on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkhw9aXQi_0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkhw9aXQi_0 edit: I thought it was a Chinese competition I watched before. It seems not. There were similar skill competitions with different large equipment
- aaron-lebo 10y agoIt's funny, things like this remind me how much we overrate certain kinds of expertise and underrate others. Those smiths will probably make a fraction of what the average software developer will and hopefully they won't die an early death due to some kind of industrial accident. This video might literally be the only mark that one of them leaves on history. The intelligence and skill it takes to do it though is astounding. These guys might not be even able to read (this is not an assumption, just a possibility), but they can do this as well as anyone on the planet. It's a real monument to human ingenuity. Meanwhile, his well-educated counterpart in the West can't stop getting job offers because they've figured out how to twiddle some bits. If they're lucky, they might even be able to make something worth hundreds of thousands, or millions, or even billions, and then people will assume that they know what they are doing and that their opinions matter. But at the end of the day...there's very little difference between them. We're just really smart creatures.
- 11thEarlOfMar 10y agoAdding to my 'collection' of mesmerizing manual labor: Building a tile-roofed hut by hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE&list=PLGnWLXjIDnpBR4xqf3FO-xFFwE-ucq4Fj&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P73REgj-3UE&list=PLGnWLXjIDn... Building a brick vaulted ceiling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB8TWMKHHMQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB8TWMKHHMQ The cinder block wall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VGjA66RSm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VGjA66RSm0
- gnu8 10y agoDigging a well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuzDyFquyqw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuzDyFquyqw
- geon 10y agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/ArtisanVideos/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtisanVideos/
- etatoby 10y agoLaying 150+ bricks in 100 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AuK_k980tk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AuK_k980tk
- minikomi 10y agoShinkansen nose cone production https://youtu.be/cfLEQDuXAO8 https://youtu.be/cfLEQDuXAO8
- maxerickson 10y ago/on the street/using a giant permanently installed industrial hammer/
- markbnj 10y agoHa yeah obviously the work yard of a foundry or metal shop of some kind. Still a damn impressive display of drop forging.
- vram22 10y agoWhy is it impressive (as a person who doesn't know anything about such stuff)? the coordination, etc.? Edit: The only kind of forging and smith work I've ever seen (live) is of Indian itinerant blacksmiths in villages (like at fairs) doing their stuff. Used to sometimes get iron garden tools made by them.
- markbnj 10y agoWell that's sort of like asking me what is good about pizza, or why I like a certain song, but anyway... I find it impressive that using only a couple of forklifts and a drop hammer they were able to forge a part of that size and shape.
- vram22 10y agoWell that's exactly it :) I know something about pizzas and songs - so if either of them was the topic I probably wouldn't have asked why it was impressive. But knew nothing about forging. Anyway, got it now, thanks. And I agree it is impressive.
- theoh 10y agoI'd be curious to know how the hammer works. The classic invention of the industrial revolution was Nasmyth's steam hammer, but plumbing providing steam at high pressure seems absent from this setup. Nasmyth's hammer was the first automatic hammer that could come down harder than just the acceleration due to gravity. So I'm very curious to know how that's being achieved here.
- agumonkey 10y agoMad Max meets Conan.
- IshKebab 10y agoWish they'd shown some video of the turning. That lathe is impressive!
- HillaryBriss 10y agothe true genius isn't shown in this video the true genius occurred when a manager and some workers first figured out how to take that hunk of metal, a forklift, some guys with metal sticks and that towering smashee-thingee out back and produce those lovely flanges for about five dollars and ninety cents worth of labor
- elsjaako 10y agoThis appears to be a youtube channel that reposts other videos to get the ad revenue. As far as I can tell this is the original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68NXH4Nmbvk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68NXH4Nmbvk
- kqr2 10y agoYes it would be great if the mods could replace link.
- fspeech 10y agoThe key take-away for me after watching this video is to not prematurely jump to conclusions. I stopped right after the team photo praising the teamwork first time around. While impressed by the teamwork and skills of manual labor, I was unimpressed by the roughness of the forged product. Only after reading some of the comments here did I realize that was not the end of the story. More stills at the end of the video show that the end product after further milling is indeed high quality to tight spec. I feel like this experience of making a premature judgement may have some relevance to understanding China stories in general. The crudeness of some of the implements fit with my pre-conceived bias that the product was not going to be high quality, even though the skills of the labor involved should have alerted me that there should be sufficient value-add to justify the investment in said skills. I even thought this was some weird craftsmanship demo.
- contras1970 10y agothus spake amerikanistra
- walshemj 10y agoThat's not in the "street" its a steel plant with an out door drop hammer.
- nullnilvoid 10y agoThis is amazing engineering. Great teamwork for these guys. They seem well-trained and know what they are doing. My first thought is this is very dangerous. Not much safety measures. What if the hammer drops on someone's head?
- beachstartup 10y agoi suspect the danger is if they don't position the piece correctly, the hammer drops on it, and something goes flying or shatters and mauls someone.
- drtse4 10y agoExtremely unsafe, it's quite easy to spot moments where this video could have had a gruesome conclusion, but I'm glad too see that at least someone gave them those plastic masks to provide the illusion of safety to those who wear them. And health care in Cina, I'm guessing that's top notch.
- rabboRubble 10y agoMesmerizing... sent this to my metal working Dad and he was harsh in his criticism: - complete lack of safety gear for the workers, especially against hearing loss - open coke burning contributing to air pollution - no quality control with obvious cold working of the metal - no noise or pollution abatement for the neighbors There were more criticisms, but he was extremely dubious about the claim that the final product met US production standards.
- beachstartup 10y agothis is almost certainly illegal, but they paid someone to look the other way, because it's cheaper, and faster (and hence more dangerous/problematic) to do it this way.
- kurthr 10y agoI agree with the comment as far as it goes... but it's only cheaper and faster, if you need a relatively small number of these parts. If you can standardize the forged part (before mill/lathe), then it's almost certainly cheaper, faster (per part), and more repeatable/efficient to build an automated forge to do it. That's even ignoring legality or safety.
- JorgeGT 10y ago> he was extremely dubious about the claim that the final product met US production standards. I have my doubts about backyard foundry guys having traceable calibration paperwork for their ultrasonic testing equipment (which is the only standard they mention; there are many many more).
- cylinder 10y agoPretty sure this scene is straight out of the American frontier in the industrial revolution.
- loukrazy 10y agoholy cow that open fire was smoking like hell. No wonder Beijing is a smoggy mess with production like this happening.
- runeks 10y agoHere's a video of the same process, but from a country where firms have an easier time accumulating capital: https://youtu.be/tEF2erBBVZ4 https://youtu.be/tEF2erBBVZ4
- agentgt 10y agoThis reminds me of the show "How It's Made" which I watch religiously. One take away I always get from the show is how much is automated and how much isn't. Metal work always seems to requires a tremendous amount of skill (e.g. one of the episodes was making shovels and spades and an apprenticeship requires like a year of training). Even metal casting requires skill because of the finishing (sanding + polishing) required. Regardless I highly recommend the show if you like watching things like this. (funny side story about me watching the show: my wife hates the show and told me to change the channel because she said it is like "watching paint dry"... sure enough next scene paint was being dried).
- Chos89 10y agoI know it's probably a custom order, but don't they have a cast which is more similar to the end product that they can use, saving them time by skipping a few steps?
- inimino 10y agoForging has benefits over casting in cost and in the properties of the finished product. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging
- reneherse 10y agoAs I understand it, forged metal is stronger than cast metal, because the forging process aligns the crystallized structure of the metal into a "grain" that is parallel to the geometry of the final part.
- suprjami 10y ago"Watch the whole video to get the whole story". Thanks for the tip, genius.
- aunty_helen 10y agoComments like this aren't really welcome around here, there's plenty of other places on the internet where you can go if you want to be like that.
- kylebenzle 10y agoI appreciated the snark and thought it well deserved for an undeserving top level comment, sometimes something more than a down-vote is called for.
- cooper12 10y agoThe snark is unwarranted because the parent is quite self-aware of their misjudgment and their comment would be helpful for others who didn't watch completely until the end. (when this was posted on reddit a lot of comments expressed a similar sentiment because they didn't watch completely until the end; [0] they thought the group photo was the end) By the way any comment can be top-level as long as it is its own thread of thought. Anything else is either a reply to one of those threads or a duplicate thread. [0]: And in another comment ITT as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13201088 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13201088
- suprjami 10y agoWow, such hypocrisy. On one hand you say snark is unwarranted because HN posters are of a higher caliber than other sites and we don't post that sort of stuff around here. On the other hand you say people on Reddit commented without watching the whole video (commenting with incomplete data, i.e. talking out their ass) so people on HN will do the same, so telling people to watch the whole video and be informed before opening their mouth is sage advice. If HN is so perfect with idyllic commenters who are undeserving of snark, they wouldn't be posting a response to a video without watching the whole video. A requirement of posting would be to have watched an entire video or read a whole article and not just skim the first bit and vomit out the first thing that comes to mind. Thanks for the confirmation that this place has gone down the toilet just like the last decades have claimed Slashdot, Digg, and Reddit before it.
- jstanley 10y agoTo everyone complaining that this looks unsafe and rough: yes, it's not as safe as it could be, and yes the forging is not as perfect as it could be (although it gets machined later anyway). But this is a bunch of guys working together and solving a problem, despite not having the tooling or resources they might like. This is great.
- maxmax 10y agoLove the open forge (probably coal-fired) in the background. In other news: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/beijing-smog-pollution-red-alert-declared-in-china-capital-and-21-other-cities https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/beijing-smog-p...
- ChuckMcM 10y agoInteresting sets of comments here and on the various videos. "hammer forging" is an old an well understood technique, its basically taking a blacksmith's workflow and scaling it up with hydraulics and mechanical lift assist :-). That said, once the initial shape is good, they chuck it up in a pretty good sized lathe to bring it into final tolerance. This saves a lot of wasted steel since you don't spend tool time cutting away a ton or more of excess material. Forging also makes the steel harder but a bit more less tough (sometimes a part will be annealed in a large oven after forging to release stresses). While I'm sure these guys all know a guy who is missing a hand or foot or died while doing this, all of the ironworkers I've met and talked with seemed to really enjoy their work. My guess is that its cathartic pounding some really amazing material into shape. A blacksmith at Plumas Eureka state park remarked that the amazing thing about the blacksmiths of the 1890's when the mine was operating was that their handy work was around for all to see and admire some 125 years later, and it still serves its intended purpose. Not something I can say about software I've written or hardware I've designed.
- inimino 10y agoAround the ten minute mark when the forklift puts the piece back in the furnace you can see off to the side someone throws water on the ground in front of the furnace so as not to melt the forklift's tires. Gives some idea of the temperatures involved and working conditions.
- andyidsinga 10y agohot damn! I can't help but say, aside from being awesome, it reminds me of the hydraulic press channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcMDMoNu66_1Hwi5-MeiQgw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcMDMoNu66_1Hwi5-MeiQgw