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Starting a real business
- sillepl 10y agoStripe Atlas would be a lot better if it would have more of the kind of payments that CoinPayments allows: ETH, DASH, Monero, Litecoin, ... I believe that Stripe Atlas has only Bitcoin as a cryptocurrency, correct?
- rco8786 10y agoI imagine that including those payment types would have a marginal, at best, effect on Atlas as a product. In total they probably account for < 0.1%(likely even less) of all online transactions and are not a real blocker for anyone starting a business unless the business is dealing in those currencies.
- mtrpcic 10y agoYeah. I suspect that those currencies are so minuscule in volume compared to USD (and other currencies) that Stripe wouldn't even pay back the engineering cost of implementing those new currencies (at least, not in the next year or two)
- kevinburke 10y agoI don't see what this has to do with the linked article, which is about the basics of incorporating a company and managing money and risk.
- hkon 10y agoIf you want to know if you are running a real business, answer this simple question. Are you making money? If you are, you run a business, if not, you run a liability.
- peterbonney 10y agoMaking money by what measure? Cash on cash return? Current cash flow? GAAP profits? Making investments with a positive expected value? If I buy a government bond I won't "make money" until the principal is repaid. But that doesn't mean I acquired a liability - it means I invested money in something. Likewise for buying real estate or any business that monetizes a capital asset. Are those not real businesses? Investing today for uncertain earnings in the future is perfectly legitimate, in tech, in brick & mortar businesses, really in anything. It doesn't mean you can be unrealistic, but it does mean that you shouldn't be short-sighted.
- hkon 10y agoThat is too complicated. Given infinite time, if you don't make money you're out of business.
- peterbonney 10y agoGiven infinite time we're all dead. My point is that "are you making money" (implicit: right now) is in fact not an appropriate criteria as you suggest.
- hkon 10y agoThen we disagree
- peterbonney 10y agoClearly. :) Per your definition, Uber is not running a real business. I have serious doubts about their long run viability, but to claim it's not a business is... strange?
- hbcondo714 10y agoLengthy and comprehensive guide[1] but no support for LLCs (yet) which cost less to incorporate [1] https://stripe.com/atlas/guide#incorporation https://stripe.com/atlas/guide#incorporation
- soared 10y ago> 80% of entrepreneurs are sole proprietors or partnerships This seems interesting but makes complete sense. Most ideas likely won't pan out and incroporating usually isn't worth the time. I'm in Colorado and making a c-corp took all of 15 minutes, but I've been told in other states its a huge proccess. If it wasn't so simple and I didn't have free legal support, I definitley would not have done it. https://stripe.com/atlas/guide#incorporation https://stripe.com/atlas/guide#incorporation
- ggregoire 10y agoIf I understand well, in the US, everybody is sole proprietor by default and you don't need any agreement from the government to start your personal business? In France, if I plan to earn any money from a website I built, I need to create at least a "micro-entreprise" [1] to declare my income (up to 32,900€/y for a SaaS). [1] https://www.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprises/vosdroits/F23264 https://www.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprises/vos...
- ensignavenger 10y agoAccording to this website: http://www.companyformationfrance.com/types-of-french-companies http://www.companyformationfrance.com/types-of-french-compan... there is, but I couldn't vouch for the accuracy of it. Edit: If you know French- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entreprise_individuelle https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entreprise_individuelle might be your answer.
- ggregoire 10y agoActually, "entreprise individuelle" and "micro-entreprise" are almost the same status (the diff is the limited income for the latter). The big diff apparently is that everyone in the US is sole proprietor by default, while in France you need to ask an agreement from the government.
- ensignavenger 10y agoI see- the first link equates entreprise individuelle with a sole-propritership. Is the paperwork just registering for tax purposes or something?
- patio11 10y agoI wrote this (and the linked guide). Feel free to ask me if you have any questions or comments, in particular about things you'd like to see us cover in the future. If you'd rather do it over email, my address is my HN username @stripe.com
- projectileboy 10y agoStripe + patio11 = good^2 Thanks for writing this!
- will_brown 10y agoWell done. I appreciate you took the time to mention LLC, since the "fund raising startup" is always advised to go DE C-corp and that (I believe) is what Stripe Atlas is currently doing. One note on the LLC, it says they are cheaper to "incorporate", that depends on the State. Disclosure: I'm was a corporate transactions attorney and I applied to Stripe Atlas, it was actually pretty cool, they asked what products/service I would create for Stripe Atlas and I built it here: www.generalcounselcloud.com The primary purpose is Registered Agent, which is always over looked and I don't think a startup has tackled. For example, I didn't see anything in the initial write up on Registered Agent (what it is, who they are, the price) but every business organization must have one. My startup also does annual reports, your write up mentions they are easy (which they are) and most business owners do it themselves or pay a CPA ~$100, personally I find a lot of business owners willing to pay for the convenience and peace of mind. If appropriate I'd ask your thoughts since these are services are complementary not competitive with Stripe Atlas.
- biztos 10y agoYour "Learn More" link does nothing, just FYI.
- will_brown 10y agoUpdated, thanks!
- chrishacken 10y ago
- miles_matthias 10y agoAbsolutely love this! There's no one better than Patrick to talk about starting a "real" business and being a solo entrepreneur. Really looking forward to learning as much as I can from his guides. On a personal note, Patrick is an awesome guy. I'm still super thankful he took time out of his busy schedule to do our little podcast: http://startupcto.io/podcast/0-23-cross-training-with-sales-marketing-featuring-patio11/ http://startupcto.io/podcast/0-23-cross-training-with-sales-...
- tvladeck 10y agoIf you're just starting out, the worst decision you can make is to incorporate as a C-corp. An LLC makes vastly more sense, even for the tiny proportion of companies that want VC funding (and specifically institutional funding - funding from other sources would not matter as much - I'll explain why below). Stripe Atlas really ought to make the default an LLC. The two major reasons why: 1. When you're a C-corp, you pay taxes twice. Once at the corporate level, and once at the individual level. This matters both for ongoing income but also for any liquidation event - as most liquidation events are asset, not stock, sales, you're getting taxed twice here too. 2. You can go from LLC -> C-corp easily but not the reverse. Why would you make the decision before you have to? Start as an LLC. In the very unlikely event you are taking institutional funding you can convert; in most cases, you'll happily stay as an LLC and keep the extra tax dollars you'd be giving the government. Finally - all this business that VCs prefer to invest in Delaware C corps because of the legal knowledge there is - sorry - bullshit. They do it because they have to invest in taxed entities, because they themselves are partnerships so their interest in any flow-through entity will flow up to their investors, some of which are non-profits. Non-profits, like pensions, risk losing their non-profit status if they have unrelated business taxable income. There is a solution here, which is to have a special purpose blocker corp that sits in between the VC partnership and the LLC. This is done all the time in private equity but not in VC and there is no principled reason why not. So there you have it. Don't do Stripe Atlas because you're forcing yourself to make a decision you don't need to make right now, that's irreversible, and that may end up costing you a lot of money. IANAL, but I am a Wharton MBA
- nodesocket 10y agoI currently have a California LLC (single founder) not looking to raise VC. While the LLC has been nice because it greatly simplifies taxes, do be aware there is a mandatory $800 tax every year (no matter how much revenue you make). The $800 tax sucks, because when you're just starting out, $800 a year can be painful if your startup is making less than $1,000 a month.
- dublinben 10y agoIf you're interested in reducing taxes, you shouldn't have incorporated in California. Quite a few other states have no such minimum taxes.
- crispytx 10y agoSeems like Stripe is trying to jack Clerky's business.
- rubicon33 10y agoWhile I definitely appreciate what Stripe is trying to do here, they've left out one of the most important, but perhaps less tangible aspects to starting a business: Getting off the ground! Say you have an idea, maybe even a prototype... MAYBE even a functional software business that's drawing some small income! How do you go about GROWING that idea, or tiny business? Do you HAVE to seek external capitol? Do most successful startups utilize angel / VC funds to "make it"? If so, where do you go, and how much do you ask for? What happens if your business fails?! Do you owe all that money back? Are people going to be pissed at you? Are you blacklisted from the industry? Etc. Etc. The point I'm getting at is... It seems to me like they've left out the part about resources. Funds. The stuff that really gives your idea, a strong kick in the pants.
- bgilroy26 10y agoYou do not have to seek external capital. If your business fails you are not blacklisted from industry. The link below has some basic information about fundraising for startups http://venturebeat.com/2009/07/08/startup-fundraising-101/ http://venturebeat.com/2009/07/08/startup-fundraising-101/
- annerajb 10y agoI was so exited about Stripe atlas. But for me it came around 2 months late. I already used a online website to register a C-Corp and they have no process to "import" your c-corp you either start all over again or dont use it. I also have no idea what would I have to do to "close" the existing c-corp and start anew using atlas.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- giis 10y agoAnyone here can share their thoughts on benefits of Delaware C-Corp vs incorporating in Singapore?
- geff82 10y agoIt is two different countries. It always depends, where your main/your first business will be. I, for example, could easily set up a company in Dubai with ZERO taxes. But as my main customers live in Germany, it will be difficult for me to tell them why they are invoiced by a company in the UAE
- sjg007 10y agohey.. patrick mckenzie aka patio11!
- jondubois 10y agoI've never had this "imposter syndrome". The main feeling I've struggled with in the past was that the market I was in had been monopolized by well-funded, well-advertised imposters. I mean that strictly in the sense that a lot of startups these days are selling their product before it's even finished - I feel that by me actually taking the time to complete the product (instead of going around raising capital), that I'm at a disadvantage. It's dangerous to legitimize this concept of 'imposter syndrome' - Some actual crooks might use it as an excuse and start to think that what they're doing is normal.
- chrisbennet 10y agoI think you may be misunderstanding "imposter syndrome". From Wikipedia: "Impostor syndrome (also known as impostor phenomenon or fraud syndrome) is a concept describing high-achieving individuals who are marked by an inability to internalize their accomplishments and a persistent fear of being exposed as a "fraud"."
- jakozaur 10y agoAbsolutely amazing world for entrepreneurs around the world. It used to be that incorporating in Delaware for foreign companies was almost a secret knowledge that cost quite a lot in legal fees and travel. Right now it is almost click through. I hope this will lead to VC money being more accessible as anyone can create Delaware if there is someone willing to write you cheque. Same with credit card payments, it used to be super expensive and painful to integrate, right now its a simple API. Thanks Stripe.
- edblarney 10y ago"We’re all making it up as we go along." This is rubbish. Most regular people are not :). Entrepreneurs - maybe. Just because you're 'faking it until you make it' does not necessarily mean that it's 'ok'. Most businesses are well established, and there are long running norms and practices. Working for a bank, usually you need a very specific education, then several years of learning the ropes, and there's no way around it, unless you want an embarrassing hole in your knowledge. So yes, it's good advice for some, but there's a reason you might feel like an 'impostor' and it could be because you are. There is a reason that most CEO's are 40-50 something and not 23. Heyzeus.
- hobo_mark 10y agoIn case anyone else is going to Ctrl+F 'Europe': > We’re writing primarily from the perspective of U.S. companies—it’s most relevant to Atlas customers (all of whom have U.S. companies) I take this to mean this won't work for those on the other side of the pond?