10 ms·

Oculus CEO Brendan Iribe Steps Down

128 points by serg_chernata 10y ago

lowglow 10y ago
Just from an outsider's perspective: The entire Oculus acquisition has been one fumble after another, I dare call it a debacle. They traded their community trust online to participate and get the resources of a bigger company (probably due to competitive pressure). The bigger company was facebook, which doesn't evoke a large amount of community trust, so there was considerable splintering in the community rallying behind what was seen as the future champ of VR. This was the same early adopter community that wanted to spend the money, buy the rigs, develop for the platform, and further VR in general. Now when I see old school innovators join up, it just feels like they've sold out by association. I don't know what's going to save its image? Maybe a killer app?
- marricks 10y ago
  I feel this view point assumes most people are Reddit users. Reddit gave them a ton of hate for being purchased by FB, and most people on Reddit hate FB, but the statistics and how much their units are sold tells us they're not having a problem reaching customers. Most companies gave really favorable reviews of touch, and gear vr has sold really well. I think the image problem is mostly just vocal Reddit users.
  - nightski 10y ago
    Are they looking to just push units? If so that strategy might work for a while. But many of us are under the impression they are looking to build an ecosystem, and the hardware is just a replaceable component to that (with plenty of competition). I feel like the concerns were more around what that ecosystem was going to be like, than the viability and or cool factor of the hardware itself. (i.e. just because I was an early adopter of a dk2 does not mean I am on board with Oculus for the long run).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - seanwilson 10y ago
    > I feel this view point assumes most people are Reddit users. Reddit gave them a ton of hate for being purchased by FB, and most people on Reddit hate FB, but the statistics and how much their units are sold tells us they're not having a problem reaching customers. > Most companies gave really favorable reviews of touch, and gear vr has sold really well. I think the image problem is mostly just vocal Reddit users. Something like 80% of internet users use Facebook. Anyone that thinks that Facebook integration is going to bother the average person (or care that Facebook just owns the company) is out of touch.
    - lj3 10y ago
      > Something like 80% of internet users use Facebook. Do you have a source far that percentage? It seems high.
      - chc 10y ago
        Given that Facebook boasts 1.8 billion monthly active users users, and there are about 3.5 billion Internet users, it seems broadly plausible that 80% of people on the Internet have used Facebook — but 80% definitely aren't regular users.
      - patch_collector 10y ago
        Pew Research had a January 2014 number of 71% of 'online adults' being on facebook, Statista had 79% of US internet users for April of 2016. http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/social-networking-fact-sheet/ http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/social-networking-fac... https://www.statista.com/statistics/246230/share-of-us-internet-users-who-use-selected-social-networks/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/246230/share-of-us-inter...
      - seanwilson 10y ago
        Haven't looked into how accurate these are but it's mentioned fairly often. "Market leader Facebook was used by 79 percent of internet users" https://www.statista.com/statistics/246230/share-of-us-internet-users-who-use-selected-social-networks/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/246230/share-of-us-inter... "71% of online adults use Facebook" http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/social-networking-fact-sheet/ http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/social-networking-fac... "72% of all online US adults visit Facebook at least once a month" https://www.brandwatch.com/blog/96-amazing-social-media-statistics-and-facts-for-2016/ https://www.brandwatch.com/blog/96-amazing-social-media-stat...
- badlucklottery 10y ago
  >I don't know what's going to save its image? Maybe a killer app? For me they'd save a lot of face if they just opened up their APIs/store to other headsets. They tried to pin down the PC VR HMD market and failed due to Valve/HTC. But they're still trying to become the Steam of VR despite Steam doing the same and having the distinct advantage of already being the Steam of everything else. But there's definitely room for other storefronts out there like GOG and EA's Origin so I don't begrudge them wanting to take that 30% for themselves but let me use whatever HMD I want.
  - errantspark 10y ago
    I can't agree more. The whole Oculus platform is so intrusive, it really feels like they care 100% about ways to extract value from their IP and 0% about delivering something users want.
  - dahdum 10y ago
    My major gripe with them too, they aren't competing on technology but rather marketing and exclusivity arrangements. So glad they aren't the only ones driving the space forward, otherwise it's IE6 all over again.
  - jwcooper 10y ago
    Are they actively blocking the other HMD's or just not supporting them with drivers, etc? I know they locked it down at one point with DRM, but quickly backtracked. Revive is a free option, that works with the Oculus Store and the Vive but that's obviously not as nice as native support from Oculus.
  - krisroadruck 10y ago
    Honestly I'd like to see VR headsets be treated more like PC monitors or video cards than like game consoles. A display with some tracking sensors should have to come with a walled garden. I feel this would encourage a lot more VR game development as well as a lot faster release cycle on new hardware, as well as a better range of hardware options, just like how you can buy a cheapo monitor or video card and live with lower resolution/framerates, or you can splurge a couple grand and get a really nice one. Games don't really care which end of that spectrum you go, they have settings to accommodate various resolutions and graphical horsepower.
marricks 10y ago
They're probably sitting on this until touch successfully shipped. This typically happens when something goes wrong though and so far Oculus seems to have sold pretty well from what we can glean. No one expected it to sell millions of units, yet. Perhaps there is a daily usage rate of devices they find troubling. Then again, it could just be Facebook taking more control. Iribe is staying at the company and from the article, > he's vacating the CEO seat and moving within the company to lead its PC VR group So perhaps the statements are sincere and he's just staying focused on the PC division, which is all Oculus was initially.
- FLGMwt 10y ago
  Doesn't seem like a bad move for product leadership either, since Carmack has been mobile (non-PC) his whole time there.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - sp332 10y ago
    Carmack has been on mobile? I remember him blogging about The Climb, which is PC-only. https://developer3.oculus.com/blog/the-art-of-presence-and-immersion-in-the-climb/ https://developer3.oculus.com/blog/the-art-of-presence-and-i...
    - retromario 10y ago
      John Carmack has done extensive work on the Gear VR. Here's a fascinating talk from 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB_u3FvUTQc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB_u3FvUTQc
- Impossible 10y ago
  Superdata research projects Oculus Rift sales for 2016 to be 360K (https://www.superdataresearch.com/vr-market-update-october-2016/ https://www.superdataresearch.com/vr-market-update-october-2...) (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-11-29-vr-the-biggest-loser-this-holiday http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-11-29-vr-the-bigg... for the updated numbers which downgrade PSVR to 750k). Early CV1 goals stated by Iribe put the headset at 1 million (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/06/oculus-expects-to-sell-north-of-a-million-units-for-first-consumer-rift/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/06/oculus-expects-to-sell...). Although this was a realistic goal the reality is way lower than the target, and that might be part of why Iribe has stepped down. From informal conversations I've had in the past with both people from Valve and PSVR it seems like PSVR and Vive numbers are closer to projections. I think Vive stole a lot of potential high end buyers from Oculus, not launching with Touch was a mistake for them. I also believe this market is a lot more price sensitive than Oculus thought it would be, The Rift has currently sold 200K units more than the DK2 with a much bigger marketing push, more high quality content and a better product, but 2x (or 3x if you include Touch) price point. I wonder if they should have made a "Super DK2". Lower quality headset hardware but Rift quality tracking and touch support at a lower price. Anecdotally, many people believe VR is a niche market that is comparable to 3D TVs and doesn't add much, but I've also met people that would buy a highend VR headset (quality matters also) if the price was right and the setup was easy. A "cheap" ($250-$400) easy to use all-in-one unit with inside out tracking, tracked controllers and a good library of games, software and content could be the tipping point for the VR market.
dharmon 10y ago
Just a wild guess, but it's possible that since Zuckerberg has a keen interest in VR that he's basically taking all of the fun vision / strategy parts of being the Oculus CEO and leaving Iribe with the slog.
- wangchow 10y ago
  Zuckerberg is a peener.
  - sctb 10y ago
    Please comment civilly and substantively on HN or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - wangchow 10y ago
      Sorry I was having a silly day at work. Then, I tried to delete the post but I cannot anymore! EDIT: But Zuckerberg is a peener when he states that fake news is fake; he's drinking his own Koolaid.
- mikeryan 10y ago
  I think you may be correct but got there the wrong way. From the lateral movement I think Iribe wanted to stay product focused instead of business focused and moved laterally within Facebook to do that. Whether it was from Zuckerberg or just the normal evolution curve of a startup CEO from productization to monetization can be debated - but the move to stay within Facebook seems to indicate it wasn't Zuckerberg's fingers (or handcuffs).
return0 10y ago
Now is the best time to leave VR, before the entire fleet sinks.
- eugeniub 10y ago
  This comment doesn't make any sense. Have you tried VR?
  - wentoodeep 10y ago
    YES, too much hype surroinding VR. Augmented Reality is the future, watch IronMan.
amaks 10y ago
It looks like they (Zuckerberg?) realized that high end device model by Oculus is not competitive compared with the mobile VR solutions like Daydream.
theschwa 10y ago
I'm rather surprised that amongst the speculation in the comments, no one is really considering that maybe Iribe's comments are true. Maybe he really did miss being more involved in the product and engineering part of the job. The company has grown up very quickly, and I have to imagine at this point as CEO, he was spending most of his time in high level business talks and not doing what he loves and what he's best at.
- flashman 10y ago
  Iribe is thought to be worth $2bn. He doesn't need CEO money, he needs something that he's passionate about.
  - adventured 10y ago
    How do you get to $2 billion? All of Oculus was purchased for $2 billion. Facebook's stock has roughly doubled since the acquisition. Iribe didn't own 50% of the company. Neither Bloomberg nor Forbes list him as a billionaire. Given their access & skill at measuring such well-known wealth, it's overwhelmingly likely they'd have those numbers pegged.
    - flashman 10y ago
      You're right, I mistook the Oculus number for his wealth. Nevertheless I think he's still probably in the realms of what they call "fuck-off money".
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  They specifically mention his focus on PC and his replacement was head of mobile before. The obvious explanation to me is that the company has decided to focus on mobile, since that's the mass market play. That would've required Iribe to devote a large portion of his time to mobile. Maybe he just wasn't the right person for that job.
- bratsche 10y ago
  The first job I had after graduating from school was at Scaleform, which was Brendan's first company. I certainly wouldn't say I got to know him all that well or anything, but he definitely was into the code and the product. I could see him missing being more involved in the product and engineering.
wolfgke 10y ago
The whole DRM move for their headsets brought Oculus a bad reputation among many VR enthusiasts: > https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/05/23/oculus-rift-update-blocks-htc-vive-revive/ https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/05/23/oculus-rift-upda... > http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/oculus-workaround-to-play-on-htc-vive-rendered-inoperable-by-app-update/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/oculus-workaround-to-p... Though they removed it after lots of users protested: > https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/06/24/oculus-rift-vive-no-headset-check/ https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/06/24/oculus-rift-vive... > http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/oculus-reverses-course-dumps-its-vr-headset-checking-drm/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/oculus-reverses-course... But the bad image that they got for this still persists among many. --- Another thing that Oculus did (probably because of pressure from Facebook, their parent company) is inserting dubious terms into their Terms of Service: > http://gizmodo.com/there-are-some-super-shady-things-in-oculus-rifts-terms-1768678169 http://gizmodo.com/there-are-some-super-shady-things-in-ocul...
- blhack 10y ago
  This should be a lesson: acts like this are poisonous. Nobody I know would even consider buying an oculus at this point because it seems like the ENTIRE VR community has turned against them. It means that when I go online to do research on what to buy, I'm not going to find anybody praising the oculus.
  - AtheistOfFail 10y ago
    The issue with the hardware isn't just the price. You factor in the good faith of the company and past knowledge. Look at Microsoft and the Kinect. After abandoning the hardware, people just stopped doing projects with Kinect, there was even a 3D scanner based off of it (which was cheaper than commercial model)
    - future1979 10y ago
      Don't remind me. I got the he Xbox one on "sale" last Black Friday. Really ticked off that they sold hw on sale just before the end. I say the end because I see almost no games supporting it these days.
skizm 10y ago
Random brain dump of questions since I haven't had a chance to actually try a VR headset yet: - Outside of car games, space sims, or any other game where the main character is mostly sitting down, does VR work well? - Apart from games what other applications are there at the moment? -Anyone try replacing their monitor with a VR headset? How'd that go? - Anyone try combining a VR headset plus a kinect? Seems like a natural combination.
- errantspark 10y ago
  1). Yes, Space Pirate Trainer is currently my #1 VR title by a wide margin. Out of Ammo is also pretty fun, but something like an order of magnitude less fun than SPT. 2). Few in the consumer space, most of them are tech demos with little real utility. Tilt Brush and Google Earth are among the most compelling non-game offerings. 3). I've made some half hearted attempts at REPL/console type stuff in VR. It's barely useable, the angular resolution is still prohibitively small. I use 4 physical monitors normally, and while I like the idea of replacing them with a VR headset that future is still quite far away. 4). I've also made some half hearted attempts at this, and others have tried as well, but this was in the era of the DK1 and I didn't achieve anything meaningful. I'm definitely going to give it another go with the Vive at some point. The LEAP motion however integrates very well with VR (either headset) and I'd recommend experimenting with it. I've made some pretty compelling minority-report style tech demos that feel pretty natural to use. Granted I'm aware of the LEAP's tracking limitations and stay within the space of gestures/hand poses it recognizes without problems. When I demo the tech to other people they often have MUCH more trouble than I do. Mostly because of occlusion problems. The LEAP is basically just 2 cameras without much stereo separation so one hand occluding the other, or the back of the hand occluding the fingers etc is something you've got to be cognizant of when using it.
- theschwa 10y ago
  I'm a bit of a VR enthusiast, and I'm not a gamer, so I think I can answer some of these. >- Outside of car games, space sims, or any other game where the main character is mostly sitting down, does VR work well? Very well. The thing I hate most, as a non-gamer, is having to learn all of the confusing controls. I really like that VR games take away most of the complication and allow you to do what feels natural. Probably for the same reasons a lot of people like the Wii. I've been having a lot of fun in games like Vanishing Realms:a first person dungeon crawling RPG http://store.steampowered.com/app/322770/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/322770/ , The Unspoken: where you have magic battles in a New York like setting http://www.insomniacgames.com/games/the-unspoken/ http://www.insomniacgames.com/games/the-unspoken/ , and a bunch of the puzzle type games. >- Apart from games what other applications are there at the moment? Not enough in my opinion, but I've spent the last week using Oculus Medium to make 3D models, and using Quill to make VR paintings. This is actually the area I'm most interested in, and I know that some companies are working behind closed doors at the moment to make more creative tools as well as business and social type tools. -Anyone try replacing their monitor with a VR headset? How'd that go? I do this frequently for consuming movies, but the resolution isn't at a point where I'd recommend it for long periods of time if you're doing text editing. I still occasionally browse and listen to music with the screen set to a gigantic size, but it hasn't replaced my monitors. - Anyone try combining a VR headset plus a kinect? Seems like a natural combination. Several companies and individuals are. This guy has been involved in the VR scene for many years and has some interesting experiments using several kinects to do mixed reality work http://doc-ok.org/?p=965 http://doc-ok.org/?p=965
MorePowerToYou 10y ago
I wanted to like VR. I made a few apps, shipped a game, tried the Rift, Vive, and PSVR. My initial enthusiasm spread to friends and family. Peers purchased GearVRs and ordered cardboard. Fast forward a few years and every single one of those headsets is gathering dust. Once enthusiastic friends won't take my VR hardware for free. I guess my primary gripe is that it's just not comfortable relative to any other form of entertainment. It's worse than reading on a phone or tablet. It's worse than playing games on a phone, console, or PC. It's worse than watching movies in the theatre. Sure, those are high bars and VR is still kinda young. But all the hype is quickly being exposed as bullshit. VR isn't catching on. Catching on looks like the iPhone in 2008-2009 or the web in the late nineties.
- robertfw 10y ago
  I think it's disingenuous to gauge VR based on GearVR/cardboard/other low cost mobile based headsets. A good VR experience is predicated on excellent tracking to ensure a 1:1 match between movement in the real world with the virtual world, and those headsets simply cannot do that. Of course they are collecting dust, poor tracking leads to nausea.
- brian-armstrong 10y ago
  You've hit on an interesting point. I've wondered about this before, if VR would be too onerous for people who came home and just want to relax. It requires wearing a bulky headset and potentially the same movement gameplay stuff that people criticized the Wii for. Not that it isn't really interesting, but it's definitely not as comfortable/passive as other entertainment
  - croon 10y ago
    I have a Vive. I've used it maybe 5 times in a month. I get a bit nauseous (but not too bad, i'm very sensitive), and you kind of sweaty after a while (not because of physical labour), but those aren't really obstacles for me. It's a great product and there are some truly cool experiences there, but my main gripe is just powering everything up, unbundling cables, and putting everything on. In my case also moving a couple of chairs out of my play area. I imagine future AR tech to be better in this regard, when you can adapt to whatever your interior looks like, and when you go wireless. Though just getting that new wireless addon for Vive and attaching easier headphones (Rift has the edge there) would reduce the threshold for "just play for a bit".
stevebmark 10y ago
Distancing yourself from Palmer Luckey is probably a good move. Distancing yourself from Oculus is probably a good move too.
- andruby 10y ago
  What happened to Palmer Luckey? I haven't been keeping up with the Oculus news for a while.
  - nacs 10y ago
    A story is linked within the article that explains what happened: https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/26/why-is-the-oculus-founder-trying-to-bring-hateful-memes-offline/ https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/26/why-is-the-oculus-founde...
    - andruby 10y ago
      Ok, he made a misstep. Is he still active at Oculus? What's his role nowadays?
      - cookiecaper 10y ago
        A misstep? That article is an embarrassing hit piece like the many others that have been written about anyone who is willing to even slightly countenance the concept that anything tangentially Trump-related can be legitimate, just like the hits on Thiel. The Silicon Valley shame machine is an utter and complete disgrace.
  - cookiecaper 10y ago
    I hadn't heard about how people are crucifying him for donating to an organization that was vaguely pro-Trump (which speaks to how bad SV is, not Palmer), but prior to that, the announcement of CV1 really hurt his reputation in the community. It was everything he said it wouldn't be, and very little he said it would be. Since he's active on Reddit, people went through his comment history and found all the occasions he made comments that the CV1 would be something it wasn't, or wouldn't be something it was, and confronted him. He basically said "things change" and everyone was very mad at him. He responded to a few things like a typical reddit user which is never good damage control when reddit is having a meltdown over your conduct. People were also very upset about the Facebook buyout, which I remember hearing took the Oculus execs by surprise. Palmer has not been popular with the community as Oculus has transitioned from a Kickstarter project to a grown-up company that got acquired for $2B. I personally think people are way too harsh on him, and that their expectations were unrealistic.
debt 10y ago
Yup oculus is a failure. Smart man not to have his name tainted by a soon to implode venture; good move Iribe.
camus2 10y ago
VR is a bubble. It is a gimmick and will never be popular and profitable (in the video game industry, there are other applications where VR is useful, like surgery,architecture...) . I'm never sick in cars, yet VR makes me sick, it gives me headache and makes me want to puke. If it does that to me, I can't imagine how painful VR is for others.

128 points by serg_chernata 10y ago

Just from an outsider's perspective: The entire Oculus acquisition has been one fumble after another, I dare call it a debacle. They traded their community trust online to participate and get the resources of a bigger company (probably due to competitive pressure). The bigger company was facebook, which doesn't evoke a large amount of community trust, so there was considerable splintering in the community rallying behind what was seen as the future champ of VR. This was the same early adopter community that wanted to spend the money, buy the rigs, develop for the platform, and further VR in general. Now when I see old school innovators join up, it just feels like they've sold out by association. I don't know what's going to save its image? Maybe a killer app?

marricks 10y ago
I feel this view point assumes most people are Reddit users. Reddit gave them a ton of hate for being purchased by FB, and most people on Reddit hate FB, but the statistics and how much their units are sold tells us they're not having a problem reaching customers. Most companies gave really favorable reviews of touch, and gear vr has sold really well. I think the image problem is mostly just vocal Reddit users.
- nightski 10y ago
  Are they looking to just push units? If so that strategy might work for a while. But many of us are under the impression they are looking to build an ecosystem, and the hardware is just a replaceable component to that (with plenty of competition). I feel like the concerns were more around what that ecosystem was going to be like, than the viability and or cool factor of the hardware itself. (i.e. just because I was an early adopter of a dk2 does not mean I am on board with Oculus for the long run).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- seanwilson 10y ago
  > I feel this view point assumes most people are Reddit users. Reddit gave them a ton of hate for being purchased by FB, and most people on Reddit hate FB, but the statistics and how much their units are sold tells us they're not having a problem reaching customers. > Most companies gave really favorable reviews of touch, and gear vr has sold really well. I think the image problem is mostly just vocal Reddit users. Something like 80% of internet users use Facebook. Anyone that thinks that Facebook integration is going to bother the average person (or care that Facebook just owns the company) is out of touch.
  - lj3 10y ago
    > Something like 80% of internet users use Facebook. Do you have a source far that percentage? It seems high.
    - chc 10y ago
      Given that Facebook boasts 1.8 billion monthly active users users, and there are about 3.5 billion Internet users, it seems broadly plausible that 80% of people on the Internet have used Facebook — but 80% definitely aren't regular users.
    - patch_collector 10y ago
      Pew Research had a January 2014 number of 71% of 'online adults' being on facebook, Statista had 79% of US internet users for April of 2016. http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/social-networking-fact-sheet/ http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/social-networking-fac... https://www.statista.com/statistics/246230/share-of-us-internet-users-who-use-selected-social-networks/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/246230/share-of-us-inter...
    - seanwilson 10y ago
      Haven't looked into how accurate these are but it's mentioned fairly often. "Market leader Facebook was used by 79 percent of internet users" https://www.statista.com/statistics/246230/share-of-us-internet-users-who-use-selected-social-networks/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/246230/share-of-us-inter... "71% of online adults use Facebook" http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/social-networking-fact-sheet/ http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/social-networking-fac... "72% of all online US adults visit Facebook at least once a month" https://www.brandwatch.com/blog/96-amazing-social-media-statistics-and-facts-for-2016/ https://www.brandwatch.com/blog/96-amazing-social-media-stat...
badlucklottery 10y ago
>I don't know what's going to save its image? Maybe a killer app? For me they'd save a lot of face if they just opened up their APIs/store to other headsets. They tried to pin down the PC VR HMD market and failed due to Valve/HTC. But they're still trying to become the Steam of VR despite Steam doing the same and having the distinct advantage of already being the Steam of everything else. But there's definitely room for other storefronts out there like GOG and EA's Origin so I don't begrudge them wanting to take that 30% for themselves but let me use whatever HMD I want.
- errantspark 10y ago
  I can't agree more. The whole Oculus platform is so intrusive, it really feels like they care 100% about ways to extract value from their IP and 0% about delivering something users want.
- dahdum 10y ago
  My major gripe with them too, they aren't competing on technology but rather marketing and exclusivity arrangements. So glad they aren't the only ones driving the space forward, otherwise it's IE6 all over again.
- jwcooper 10y ago
  Are they actively blocking the other HMD's or just not supporting them with drivers, etc? I know they locked it down at one point with DRM, but quickly backtracked. Revive is a free option, that works with the Oculus Store and the Vive but that's obviously not as nice as native support from Oculus.
- krisroadruck 10y ago
  Honestly I'd like to see VR headsets be treated more like PC monitors or video cards than like game consoles. A display with some tracking sensors should have to come with a walled garden. I feel this would encourage a lot more VR game development as well as a lot faster release cycle on new hardware, as well as a better range of hardware options, just like how you can buy a cheapo monitor or video card and live with lower resolution/framerates, or you can splurge a couple grand and get a really nice one. Games don't really care which end of that spectrum you go, they have settings to accommodate various resolutions and graphical horsepower.

marricks 10y ago

They're probably sitting on this until touch successfully shipped. This typically happens when something goes wrong though and so far Oculus seems to have sold pretty well from what we can glean. No one expected it to sell millions of units, yet. Perhaps there is a daily usage rate of devices they find troubling. Then again, it could just be Facebook taking more control. Iribe is staying at the company and from the article, > he's vacating the CEO seat and moving within the company to lead its PC VR group So perhaps the statements are sincere and he's just staying focused on the PC division, which is all Oculus was initially.

FLGMwt 10y ago
Doesn't seem like a bad move for product leadership either, since Carmack has been mobile (non-PC) his whole time there.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- sp332 10y ago
  Carmack has been on mobile? I remember him blogging about The Climb, which is PC-only. https://developer3.oculus.com/blog/the-art-of-presence-and-immersion-in-the-climb/ https://developer3.oculus.com/blog/the-art-of-presence-and-i...
  - retromario 10y ago
    John Carmack has done extensive work on the Gear VR. Here's a fascinating talk from 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB_u3FvUTQc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB_u3FvUTQc
Impossible 10y ago
Superdata research projects Oculus Rift sales for 2016 to be 360K (https://www.superdataresearch.com/vr-market-update-october-2016/ https://www.superdataresearch.com/vr-market-update-october-2...) (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-11-29-vr-the-biggest-loser-this-holiday http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-11-29-vr-the-bigg... for the updated numbers which downgrade PSVR to 750k). Early CV1 goals stated by Iribe put the headset at 1 million (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/06/oculus-expects-to-sell-north-of-a-million-units-for-first-consumer-rift/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/06/oculus-expects-to-sell...). Although this was a realistic goal the reality is way lower than the target, and that might be part of why Iribe has stepped down. From informal conversations I've had in the past with both people from Valve and PSVR it seems like PSVR and Vive numbers are closer to projections. I think Vive stole a lot of potential high end buyers from Oculus, not launching with Touch was a mistake for them. I also believe this market is a lot more price sensitive than Oculus thought it would be, The Rift has currently sold 200K units more than the DK2 with a much bigger marketing push, more high quality content and a better product, but 2x (or 3x if you include Touch) price point. I wonder if they should have made a "Super DK2". Lower quality headset hardware but Rift quality tracking and touch support at a lower price. Anecdotally, many people believe VR is a niche market that is comparable to 3D TVs and doesn't add much, but I've also met people that would buy a highend VR headset (quality matters also) if the price was right and the setup was easy. A "cheap" ($250-$400) easy to use all-in-one unit with inside out tracking, tracked controllers and a good library of games, software and content could be the tipping point for the VR market.

dharmon 10y ago

Just a wild guess, but it's possible that since Zuckerberg has a keen interest in VR that he's basically taking all of the fun vision / strategy parts of being the Oculus CEO and leaving Iribe with the slog.

wangchow 10y ago
Zuckerberg is a peener.
- sctb 10y ago
  Please comment civilly and substantively on HN or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - wangchow 10y ago
    Sorry I was having a silly day at work. Then, I tried to delete the post but I cannot anymore! EDIT: But Zuckerberg is a peener when he states that fake news is fake; he's drinking his own Koolaid.
mikeryan 10y ago
I think you may be correct but got there the wrong way. From the lateral movement I think Iribe wanted to stay product focused instead of business focused and moved laterally within Facebook to do that. Whether it was from Zuckerberg or just the normal evolution curve of a startup CEO from productization to monetization can be debated - but the move to stay within Facebook seems to indicate it wasn't Zuckerberg's fingers (or handcuffs).

return0 10y ago

Now is the best time to leave VR, before the entire fleet sinks.

eugeniub 10y ago
This comment doesn't make any sense. Have you tried VR?
- wentoodeep 10y ago
  YES, too much hype surroinding VR. Augmented Reality is the future, watch IronMan.

amaks 10y ago

It looks like they (Zuckerberg?) realized that high end device model by Oculus is not competitive compared with the mobile VR solutions like Daydream.

theschwa 10y ago

I'm rather surprised that amongst the speculation in the comments, no one is really considering that maybe Iribe's comments are true. Maybe he really did miss being more involved in the product and engineering part of the job. The company has grown up very quickly, and I have to imagine at this point as CEO, he was spending most of his time in high level business talks and not doing what he loves and what he's best at.

flashman 10y ago
Iribe is thought to be worth $2bn. He doesn't need CEO money, he needs something that he's passionate about.
- adventured 10y ago
  How do you get to $2 billion? All of Oculus was purchased for $2 billion. Facebook's stock has roughly doubled since the acquisition. Iribe didn't own 50% of the company. Neither Bloomberg nor Forbes list him as a billionaire. Given their access & skill at measuring such well-known wealth, it's overwhelmingly likely they'd have those numbers pegged.
  - flashman 10y ago
    You're right, I mistook the Oculus number for his wealth. Nevertheless I think he's still probably in the realms of what they call "fuck-off money".
erikpukinskis 10y ago
They specifically mention his focus on PC and his replacement was head of mobile before. The obvious explanation to me is that the company has decided to focus on mobile, since that's the mass market play. That would've required Iribe to devote a large portion of his time to mobile. Maybe he just wasn't the right person for that job.
bratsche 10y ago
The first job I had after graduating from school was at Scaleform, which was Brendan's first company. I certainly wouldn't say I got to know him all that well or anything, but he definitely was into the code and the product. I could see him missing being more involved in the product and engineering.

wolfgke 10y ago

The whole DRM move for their headsets brought Oculus a bad reputation among many VR enthusiasts: > https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/05/23/oculus-rift-update-blocks-htc-vive-revive/ https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/05/23/oculus-rift-upda... > http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/oculus-workaround-to-play-on-htc-vive-rendered-inoperable-by-app-update/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/05/oculus-workaround-to-p... Though they removed it after lots of users protested: > https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/06/24/oculus-rift-vive-no-headset-check/ https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/06/24/oculus-rift-vive... > http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/oculus-reverses-course-dumps-its-vr-headset-checking-drm/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/oculus-reverses-course... But the bad image that they got for this still persists among many. --- Another thing that Oculus did (probably because of pressure from Facebook, their parent company) is inserting dubious terms into their Terms of Service: > http://gizmodo.com/there-are-some-super-shady-things-in-oculus-rifts-terms-1768678169 http://gizmodo.com/there-are-some-super-shady-things-in-ocul...

blhack 10y ago
This should be a lesson: acts like this are poisonous. Nobody I know would even consider buying an oculus at this point because it seems like the ENTIRE VR community has turned against them. It means that when I go online to do research on what to buy, I'm not going to find anybody praising the oculus.
- AtheistOfFail 10y ago
  The issue with the hardware isn't just the price. You factor in the good faith of the company and past knowledge. Look at Microsoft and the Kinect. After abandoning the hardware, people just stopped doing projects with Kinect, there was even a 3D scanner based off of it (which was cheaper than commercial model)
  - future1979 10y ago
    Don't remind me. I got the he Xbox one on "sale" last Black Friday. Really ticked off that they sold hw on sale just before the end. I say the end because I see almost no games supporting it these days.

skizm 10y ago

Random brain dump of questions since I haven't had a chance to actually try a VR headset yet: - Outside of car games, space sims, or any other game where the main character is mostly sitting down, does VR work well? - Apart from games what other applications are there at the moment? -Anyone try replacing their monitor with a VR headset? How'd that go? - Anyone try combining a VR headset plus a kinect? Seems like a natural combination.

errantspark 10y ago
1). Yes, Space Pirate Trainer is currently my #1 VR title by a wide margin. Out of Ammo is also pretty fun, but something like an order of magnitude less fun than SPT. 2). Few in the consumer space, most of them are tech demos with little real utility. Tilt Brush and Google Earth are among the most compelling non-game offerings. 3). I've made some half hearted attempts at REPL/console type stuff in VR. It's barely useable, the angular resolution is still prohibitively small. I use 4 physical monitors normally, and while I like the idea of replacing them with a VR headset that future is still quite far away. 4). I've also made some half hearted attempts at this, and others have tried as well, but this was in the era of the DK1 and I didn't achieve anything meaningful. I'm definitely going to give it another go with the Vive at some point. The LEAP motion however integrates very well with VR (either headset) and I'd recommend experimenting with it. I've made some pretty compelling minority-report style tech demos that feel pretty natural to use. Granted I'm aware of the LEAP's tracking limitations and stay within the space of gestures/hand poses it recognizes without problems. When I demo the tech to other people they often have MUCH more trouble than I do. Mostly because of occlusion problems. The LEAP is basically just 2 cameras without much stereo separation so one hand occluding the other, or the back of the hand occluding the fingers etc is something you've got to be cognizant of when using it.
theschwa 10y ago
I'm a bit of a VR enthusiast, and I'm not a gamer, so I think I can answer some of these. >- Outside of car games, space sims, or any other game where the main character is mostly sitting down, does VR work well? Very well. The thing I hate most, as a non-gamer, is having to learn all of the confusing controls. I really like that VR games take away most of the complication and allow you to do what feels natural. Probably for the same reasons a lot of people like the Wii. I've been having a lot of fun in games like Vanishing Realms:a first person dungeon crawling RPG http://store.steampowered.com/app/322770/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/322770/ , The Unspoken: where you have magic battles in a New York like setting http://www.insomniacgames.com/games/the-unspoken/ http://www.insomniacgames.com/games/the-unspoken/ , and a bunch of the puzzle type games. >- Apart from games what other applications are there at the moment? Not enough in my opinion, but I've spent the last week using Oculus Medium to make 3D models, and using Quill to make VR paintings. This is actually the area I'm most interested in, and I know that some companies are working behind closed doors at the moment to make more creative tools as well as business and social type tools. -Anyone try replacing their monitor with a VR headset? How'd that go? I do this frequently for consuming movies, but the resolution isn't at a point where I'd recommend it for long periods of time if you're doing text editing. I still occasionally browse and listen to music with the screen set to a gigantic size, but it hasn't replaced my monitors. - Anyone try combining a VR headset plus a kinect? Seems like a natural combination. Several companies and individuals are. This guy has been involved in the VR scene for many years and has some interesting experiments using several kinects to do mixed reality work http://doc-ok.org/?p=965 http://doc-ok.org/?p=965

MorePowerToYou 10y ago

I wanted to like VR. I made a few apps, shipped a game, tried the Rift, Vive, and PSVR. My initial enthusiasm spread to friends and family. Peers purchased GearVRs and ordered cardboard. Fast forward a few years and every single one of those headsets is gathering dust. Once enthusiastic friends won't take my VR hardware for free. I guess my primary gripe is that it's just not comfortable relative to any other form of entertainment. It's worse than reading on a phone or tablet. It's worse than playing games on a phone, console, or PC. It's worse than watching movies in the theatre. Sure, those are high bars and VR is still kinda young. But all the hype is quickly being exposed as bullshit. VR isn't catching on. Catching on looks like the iPhone in 2008-2009 or the web in the late nineties.

robertfw 10y ago
I think it's disingenuous to gauge VR based on GearVR/cardboard/other low cost mobile based headsets. A good VR experience is predicated on excellent tracking to ensure a 1:1 match between movement in the real world with the virtual world, and those headsets simply cannot do that. Of course they are collecting dust, poor tracking leads to nausea.
brian-armstrong 10y ago
You've hit on an interesting point. I've wondered about this before, if VR would be too onerous for people who came home and just want to relax. It requires wearing a bulky headset and potentially the same movement gameplay stuff that people criticized the Wii for. Not that it isn't really interesting, but it's definitely not as comfortable/passive as other entertainment
- croon 10y ago
  I have a Vive. I've used it maybe 5 times in a month. I get a bit nauseous (but not too bad, i'm very sensitive), and you kind of sweaty after a while (not because of physical labour), but those aren't really obstacles for me. It's a great product and there are some truly cool experiences there, but my main gripe is just powering everything up, unbundling cables, and putting everything on. In my case also moving a couple of chairs out of my play area. I imagine future AR tech to be better in this regard, when you can adapt to whatever your interior looks like, and when you go wireless. Though just getting that new wireless addon for Vive and attaching easier headphones (Rift has the edge there) would reduce the threshold for "just play for a bit".

stevebmark 10y ago

Distancing yourself from Palmer Luckey is probably a good move. Distancing yourself from Oculus is probably a good move too.

andruby 10y ago
What happened to Palmer Luckey? I haven't been keeping up with the Oculus news for a while.
- nacs 10y ago
  A story is linked within the article that explains what happened: https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/26/why-is-the-oculus-founder-trying-to-bring-hateful-memes-offline/ https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/26/why-is-the-oculus-founde...
  - andruby 10y ago
    Ok, he made a misstep. Is he still active at Oculus? What's his role nowadays?
    - cookiecaper 10y ago
      A misstep? That article is an embarrassing hit piece like the many others that have been written about anyone who is willing to even slightly countenance the concept that anything tangentially Trump-related can be legitimate, just like the hits on Thiel. The Silicon Valley shame machine is an utter and complete disgrace.
- cookiecaper 10y ago
  I hadn't heard about how people are crucifying him for donating to an organization that was vaguely pro-Trump (which speaks to how bad SV is, not Palmer), but prior to that, the announcement of CV1 really hurt his reputation in the community. It was everything he said it wouldn't be, and very little he said it would be. Since he's active on Reddit, people went through his comment history and found all the occasions he made comments that the CV1 would be something it wasn't, or wouldn't be something it was, and confronted him. He basically said "things change" and everyone was very mad at him. He responded to a few things like a typical reddit user which is never good damage control when reddit is having a meltdown over your conduct. People were also very upset about the Facebook buyout, which I remember hearing took the Oculus execs by surprise. Palmer has not been popular with the community as Oculus has transitioned from a Kickstarter project to a grown-up company that got acquired for $2B. I personally think people are way too harsh on him, and that their expectations were unrealistic.

debt 10y ago

Yup oculus is a failure. Smart man not to have his name tainted by a soon to implode venture; good move Iribe.

camus2 10y ago

VR is a bubble. It is a gimmick and will never be popular and profitable (in the video game industry, there are other applications where VR is useful, like surgery,architecture...) . I'm never sick in cars, yet VR makes me sick, it gives me headache and makes me want to puke. If it does that to me, I can't imagine how painful VR is for others.