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The Smartwatch as a concept is a good one, however the current offerings have one of two problems: Pebble's problem is the lack of features, and specific to us

The Smartwatch as a concept is a good one, however the current offerings have one of two problems: Pebble's problem is the lack of features, and specific to users of iOS like myself, relative instability and weirdness when it comes to important things like notifications. The monochrome screen is also less attractive though IMO bearable. Apple Watch's problem is battery life. It's absolutely unattractive to me to have yet another thing I need to charge once a day. It wins on pretty much everything else but such a low battery life is crippling to this sort of device. I feel like between the two you have a rough approximation of the laptop offerings of the early 80's. Yes, they did exist and some people used them, but by and large they were terrible for the functions they were built for. I have a feeling in not even that much time, we'll have proper smart watches with good integration across platforms that will have a screen like Apple's and the life of a Pebble, but for now, laying out $250 for what's basically a bleeding edge prototype is unattractive to the mainstream consumer. Edit: Question for HN: Would you all consider a Fitbit to be a smartwatch? I mean it's a watch-esque device that does more intelligent things than just a regular watch but I feel like that's more of a wearable monitoring device.

tedajax 10y ago
Honestly the Pebble is perfect because it's so stripped down. It does exactly what I want it to do which is show me notifications, the time, track my sleep, let me set timers and press next in spotify without pulling my phone out of my pocket. It does all of this with a battery that I charge once a week. I'm very sad Pebble is gone.
- sundvor 10y ago
  I'm a 100% with you. If I need advanced features my phone is right in my pocket. Timers, notifications, Spotify is perfectly handler with the always on display, week long battery life. I got the Pebble 2 from Kickstarter, having also ordered the Time 2, and was blown away by how sharp the P2 screen is -monochrome and all. Very sad I won't get the new Time 2, as I felt the Pebble Time Steel display was a step backwards from the OG Steel in terms of readability. My first reaction to the news was to locate a white P2 on Amazon to replace my wife's Pebble Time. Hope to get it just in time for Christmas. I'm still very sad about how it all panned out, for the team and all the loyal fans, and selfishly so mostly because I won't see the Time 2 - not only would the display be a massive improvement, but CPU and memory also.
mikestew 10y ago
Would you all consider a Fitbit to be a smartwatch? I would, which is why I wear a Garmin now despite having backed two Pebble Kickstarters. AFAIK, a FitBit does everything the original Pebble did, which was mainly put notifications on your wrist. I know my Garmin does everything that the original Pebble did (mainly notifications), and I can use it when I go running without having to bring my phone. So, yeah, in comparison the original Pebble, FitBit is a smartwatch as defined by the smartwatch market in its current state. That doesn't mean that I don't think it's early days, just as you with your laptop comparison.
- runwerks 10y ago
  which garmin do you wear?
  - mikestew 10y ago
    Fenix HR. But I think most of Garmin's line has at least some basic notification functionality, even down to the inexpensive Vivo line. Fenix HR specifically because trail runner (need the extra battery for those really long runs), hiker (alt/bar/compass is nice), and all-around outdoorsy guy (device signals my outdoorsiness), in case that was the nature of your question.
verandaguy 10y ago
>The monochrome screen is also less attractive though IMO bearable. The (colour-screen) Pebble Time and Time Steel have been on the market for about 1.5-2 years now, and also included a microphone for relaying voice commands to your phone. The Pebble 2 would've included all of this, plus a larger screen. It managed to preserve a battery life of (easily) the better part of a week. RE your question: the FitBit isn't a smartwatch. It's designed around a single function (fitness monitoring).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- kobeya 10y ago
  Pebble 2 shipped, btw.
  - verandaguy 10y ago
    My mistake!
    - PetitPrince 10y ago
      Your statement is correct about the Pebble Time 2 though (Pebble Time ~ higher end of the Pebble line)
- bradyd 10y ago
  > the FitBit isn't a smartwatch. It's designed around a single function (fitness monitoring) While that is true of most FitBit models, the FitBit Charge 2 has some smartwatch features like notifications.
  - heywire 10y ago
    Same of the FitBit Blaze. I'm quite happy with my Blaze. It does notifications (email, call, sms/iMessage, apps) and music control as well. Battery life has been pretty good, though it doesn't really matter, I simply charge it when I'm in the shower and getting ready in the morning, and that's enough to get me back to 100% battery each morning.
lfuller 10y ago
I've found that the battery life issue has been largely overblown, especially with the Apple Watch Series 2. On most days (all features enabled, moderate app usage, no GPS usage) I still have between 65% - 75% of battery life remaining. Even if the battery life wasn't that good, is it really that hard to take your watch off before bed and set it on a magnetic charger? I've worn watches my whole life and have never slept with them on.
- FussyZeus 10y ago
  Being a sysadmin having the thing on my wrist overnight is the best use case for me to have it, that way if I get alerts in the night I can have it vibrate so I don't wake the wife. In all likelihood I would charge it at work, not at home. But I get what you're saying, that's interesting.
- derekp7 10y ago
  I take it you aren't interested in sleep tracking? I find it helpful to know how much "deep" sleep I've gotten -- and it does tend to correlate with how I feel the next day. But as long as it lasts for more than a day, and if it charges fast enough, you could always charge it in the car on the way to work. Or charge it while in morning while in the shower.
  - MBCook 10y ago
    I know people who use the Apple Watch for that. The battery is small enough that they let it barge twice a day (when getting ready in the morning, some time in the evening) that it tops up to 100% in a short amount of time.
  - rconti 10y ago
    I've never tried using my Apple Watch 2 for sleep tracking as it's usually only around 50-60% at the end of the day, and it's 'best' to charge at night. Granted, I'm already wearing a Fitbit Charge HR and have a Hello Sense sleep tracker as well. I've also noticed on the odd occasion where i sleep with my apple watch on, the screen lights up too frequently as i roll over. The fitbit does that too, but isn't as bright. Anyway, if you can barely/hopefully survive 2 days with it, it means you really need to charge it daily. Again, something I'd rather do while sleeping than at my desk.
grey-area 10y ago
For me the problem with smart watches is that they're not independent devices. If you have to carry a phone anyway, what's the point in an accessory to the phone which duplicates the functions on a smaller screen? The only use I found for the ones I've tried was glancing at text messages rather than taking out the phone, but even that let's people more easily interrupt me...
- FussyZeus 10y ago
  Being a user of a six plus, where getting my phone out of my pocket can be an issue, the convenience of having it on my wrist is huge. Just not huge enough to currently overcome the inconveniences.
derekp7 10y ago
I was planning on getting the Pebble 2 sometime next spring as a replacement for my current Pebble Time. So I've been comparing what's out there. My phone is Android, so that leaves out the Apple watch. Also, not impressed with Android Wear watches. It looks like the Samsung Gear S3 comes pretty close -- it runs Tizen (which is derived from Nokia's Maemo), so it looks like it should be easy to develop for. Also has an always-on screen, and "up to" a 3-day battery life. I just wish they could make a screen that looks as good as AMOLED, but was passively illuminated during the daytime.
- nbz118 10y ago
  I moved from a Pebble Time to a Gear S2 and my experience has been overall pretty positive. A few things I've noticed: - battery life is very good compared to apple/android. I can usually get 2-3 full days of regular use with the ambient display on. - It looks way more like a regular watch, most people don't notice unless you start using it. It also fits a lot better on my smaller wrist. - The screen is amazing indoors, meh outdoors. Kind of the opposite of what I experienced with the pebble. - Very limited app selection. I don't actually use any apps besides what it came with, and even then I think all I use is just the calendar and weather. I mostly have it for the notifications, which work extremely well, so I don't really care about that. Might be a bigger deal for you.
  - derekp7 10y ago
    Thanks, that is really good information. I originally had a basic Fitbit (work was giving them out), got addicted to the fitness / sleep tracking, but wanted to upgrade to something that showed time and give notifications (I frequently miss text messages because I don't hear or feel the phone in my pocket all the time) -- so I got the Pebble. The apps I don't use that much, although there is one Weather-related watch face on the Pebble that I don't think I could live without. It shows a graph of the temperature and chance of rain for the next several hours, and has a mini calendar on it with color dots next to each day representing sunny, cloudy, rain or snow. Makes it real easy to tell at a glance what is coming up weather-wise.
phire 10y ago
I've owned a Pebble Time since that kickstarter and I've found that all I use it for is: * Telling the time * Tracking my activity level * Tracking my sleep * Timer and occasionally a smart Alarm * Letting me see my motivations without pulling my phone out. * changing volume/track on spotify. The fitbit charge 2 has most of those features, the main thing it's lacking are timer, smart alarm, spotify control and the more advanced alerts (apparently it only does text/calls and calendar). All those missing features are software features rather than hardware features, I kind of expect fitbit acquired pebble so it could get some of that technology.
- brlewis 10y ago
  Fitbit Blaze also shows notifications from apps you select.
  - phire 10y ago
    Looks like it also has music control too. But I'm not sure how they manage to claim a 5 day with a color LCD display, I guess I should add the "always on display" to the list of pebble features I used.
- Fnoord 10y ago
  I was quite emotional the day I learned Pebble was RIP while from this article it seems the CEO gave a good shot to do the best for his customers and employees. Alas, nothing can replace it (yet) My Pebble Classic (!) can do: * Time/Date (with many watchfaces) * Calendar * Weather * Stepcounter * Sleep tracker * Alarms, Timers, and Stopwatch (smart alarm for sleep, other ones useful in the kitchen) * HRM (via SimplyHRM or Strava) * Running/bike tracking (native or e.g. w/Strava) * Music control (Spotify, awesome during sports) * Google Maps support (also with navigation) * 2FA HOTP * Oh, and notifications (w/filters) * With recharging once a week. Which also means the battery is gonna last, unlike those watches who recharge daily. * Works under shower, too. * And all this, for the price of ~100 EUR (a few EUR for some of the above apps). My Pebble had the dreaded graphics issue. Pebble 2 has build-in HRM, but it isn't as accurate as my Polar H7. Pebble 2 has a crystal clear screen, the design looks more professional, and the wristband is better than the previous iteration. The only thing I've never quite been able to set up, is managing a shopping list for in the grocery store (just with the ability to flag what is done). I miss such a feature so much! Using my smartphone for this is a ticking timebomb. One day, a kid is just gonna bump into me and poof its gonna drop on the floor. Won't happen with a smartwatch. And that is a use case right there, one no other device than a smartwatch can fulfill. I admit, smartwatch use cases right now are niches, but that doesn't mean they're irrelevant. Plus, in The Netherlands it is going to be illegal to use a smartphone on the bike. A smartphone is far more safe, and it won't drop. Being attached on the wrist has a clear advantage for use cases like these. One disadvantage is information leaking. Although smartphones are also vulnerable to that.
tw04 10y ago
If you've considered an Apple Watch then I'll give my requisite recommendation to look at a Garmin. It won't have quite the features that the Apple watch does - but it's perfectly usable as a standalone device, has a battery life long enough that I don't even think about it (think week(s)), and has amazing built-in GPS. It can potentially be more expensive than a Pebble, but competitive with an Apple watch, if not cheaper (depending on model). As a fitness tracker and notification machine I'd say it's superior to an Apple Watch - I haven't had an Apple Watch but have had android wear devices which seem to be about the same in terms of battery life and functionality.
revelation 10y ago
The "watch with largish LiIon battery" market is very odd. Nobody seems to have any clue what the market wants or what the market is. The only company doing reliably well is Garmin, who just iterated on their sports watches with low hanging fruit like smartphone notifications or step counters (one of the most bizarre features). Everyone else is just in a drunken random walk. So now there are watches that waste lots of battery on recording rough HR all day but totally fail reliably capturing HR during sport activities. I have no clue what they think that is doing, utterly useless.
- rconti 10y ago
  According to most on-wrist HR device reviews I've seen (for example, dcrainmaker), the on-wrist devices work just fine but filter 'noise' too aggressively to accurately capture your abrupt heart rate fall when doing intervals. For most people, this is 'good enough'. I have an AppleWatch2, Fitbit Charge HR, and a Suunto Ambit that uses a chest strap. To be honest, the chest strap is unreliable enough that I don't think I'd say that system works better than the on-wrist devices.
madenine 10y ago
Just picked up an Alta, I'd say its a smart watch-light. I wouldn't get a full smart watch, probably ever. I don't need a full screen on my wrist. For me, the killer features are: Tracks my steps/motion, tells time, vibration alerts and alarms. If they can keep making it smaller / more like a wrist band, I'll buy each new version that comes out. I want something small/subtle, not packed with features.
outworlder 10y ago
> The monochrome screen is also less attractive though IMO bearable. True. But the color is very nice. It's a bit washed out when the backlight is on, but ok.

tedajax 10y ago

Honestly the Pebble is perfect because it's so stripped down. It does exactly what I want it to do which is show me notifications, the time, track my sleep, let me set timers and press next in spotify without pulling my phone out of my pocket. It does all of this with a battery that I charge once a week. I'm very sad Pebble is gone.

sundvor 10y ago
I'm a 100% with you. If I need advanced features my phone is right in my pocket. Timers, notifications, Spotify is perfectly handler with the always on display, week long battery life. I got the Pebble 2 from Kickstarter, having also ordered the Time 2, and was blown away by how sharp the P2 screen is -monochrome and all. Very sad I won't get the new Time 2, as I felt the Pebble Time Steel display was a step backwards from the OG Steel in terms of readability. My first reaction to the news was to locate a white P2 on Amazon to replace my wife's Pebble Time. Hope to get it just in time for Christmas. I'm still very sad about how it all panned out, for the team and all the loyal fans, and selfishly so mostly because I won't see the Time 2 - not only would the display be a massive improvement, but CPU and memory also.

mikestew 10y ago

Would you all consider a Fitbit to be a smartwatch? I would, which is why I wear a Garmin now despite having backed two Pebble Kickstarters. AFAIK, a FitBit does everything the original Pebble did, which was mainly put notifications on your wrist. I know my Garmin does everything that the original Pebble did (mainly notifications), and I can use it when I go running without having to bring my phone. So, yeah, in comparison the original Pebble, FitBit is a smartwatch as defined by the smartwatch market in its current state. That doesn't mean that I don't think it's early days, just as you with your laptop comparison.

runwerks 10y ago
which garmin do you wear?
- mikestew 10y ago
  Fenix HR. But I think most of Garmin's line has at least some basic notification functionality, even down to the inexpensive Vivo line. Fenix HR specifically because trail runner (need the extra battery for those really long runs), hiker (alt/bar/compass is nice), and all-around outdoorsy guy (device signals my outdoorsiness), in case that was the nature of your question.

verandaguy 10y ago

>The monochrome screen is also less attractive though IMO bearable. The (colour-screen) Pebble Time and Time Steel have been on the market for about 1.5-2 years now, and also included a microphone for relaying voice commands to your phone. The Pebble 2 would've included all of this, plus a larger screen. It managed to preserve a battery life of (easily) the better part of a week. RE your question: the FitBit isn't a smartwatch. It's designed around a single function (fitness monitoring).

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kobeya 10y ago
Pebble 2 shipped, btw.
- verandaguy 10y ago
  My mistake!
  - PetitPrince 10y ago
    Your statement is correct about the Pebble Time 2 though (Pebble Time ~ higher end of the Pebble line)
bradyd 10y ago
> the FitBit isn't a smartwatch. It's designed around a single function (fitness monitoring) While that is true of most FitBit models, the FitBit Charge 2 has some smartwatch features like notifications.
- heywire 10y ago
  Same of the FitBit Blaze. I'm quite happy with my Blaze. It does notifications (email, call, sms/iMessage, apps) and music control as well. Battery life has been pretty good, though it doesn't really matter, I simply charge it when I'm in the shower and getting ready in the morning, and that's enough to get me back to 100% battery each morning.

lfuller 10y ago

I've found that the battery life issue has been largely overblown, especially with the Apple Watch Series 2. On most days (all features enabled, moderate app usage, no GPS usage) I still have between 65% - 75% of battery life remaining. Even if the battery life wasn't that good, is it really that hard to take your watch off before bed and set it on a magnetic charger? I've worn watches my whole life and have never slept with them on.

FussyZeus 10y ago
Being a sysadmin having the thing on my wrist overnight is the best use case for me to have it, that way if I get alerts in the night I can have it vibrate so I don't wake the wife. In all likelihood I would charge it at work, not at home. But I get what you're saying, that's interesting.
derekp7 10y ago
I take it you aren't interested in sleep tracking? I find it helpful to know how much "deep" sleep I've gotten -- and it does tend to correlate with how I feel the next day. But as long as it lasts for more than a day, and if it charges fast enough, you could always charge it in the car on the way to work. Or charge it while in morning while in the shower.
- MBCook 10y ago
  I know people who use the Apple Watch for that. The battery is small enough that they let it barge twice a day (when getting ready in the morning, some time in the evening) that it tops up to 100% in a short amount of time.
- rconti 10y ago
  I've never tried using my Apple Watch 2 for sleep tracking as it's usually only around 50-60% at the end of the day, and it's 'best' to charge at night. Granted, I'm already wearing a Fitbit Charge HR and have a Hello Sense sleep tracker as well. I've also noticed on the odd occasion where i sleep with my apple watch on, the screen lights up too frequently as i roll over. The fitbit does that too, but isn't as bright. Anyway, if you can barely/hopefully survive 2 days with it, it means you really need to charge it daily. Again, something I'd rather do while sleeping than at my desk.

grey-area 10y ago

For me the problem with smart watches is that they're not independent devices. If you have to carry a phone anyway, what's the point in an accessory to the phone which duplicates the functions on a smaller screen? The only use I found for the ones I've tried was glancing at text messages rather than taking out the phone, but even that let's people more easily interrupt me...

FussyZeus 10y ago
Being a user of a six plus, where getting my phone out of my pocket can be an issue, the convenience of having it on my wrist is huge. Just not huge enough to currently overcome the inconveniences.

derekp7 10y ago

I was planning on getting the Pebble 2 sometime next spring as a replacement for my current Pebble Time. So I've been comparing what's out there. My phone is Android, so that leaves out the Apple watch. Also, not impressed with Android Wear watches. It looks like the Samsung Gear S3 comes pretty close -- it runs Tizen (which is derived from Nokia's Maemo), so it looks like it should be easy to develop for. Also has an always-on screen, and "up to" a 3-day battery life. I just wish they could make a screen that looks as good as AMOLED, but was passively illuminated during the daytime.

nbz118 10y ago
I moved from a Pebble Time to a Gear S2 and my experience has been overall pretty positive. A few things I've noticed: - battery life is very good compared to apple/android. I can usually get 2-3 full days of regular use with the ambient display on. - It looks way more like a regular watch, most people don't notice unless you start using it. It also fits a lot better on my smaller wrist. - The screen is amazing indoors, meh outdoors. Kind of the opposite of what I experienced with the pebble. - Very limited app selection. I don't actually use any apps besides what it came with, and even then I think all I use is just the calendar and weather. I mostly have it for the notifications, which work extremely well, so I don't really care about that. Might be a bigger deal for you.
- derekp7 10y ago
  Thanks, that is really good information. I originally had a basic Fitbit (work was giving them out), got addicted to the fitness / sleep tracking, but wanted to upgrade to something that showed time and give notifications (I frequently miss text messages because I don't hear or feel the phone in my pocket all the time) -- so I got the Pebble. The apps I don't use that much, although there is one Weather-related watch face on the Pebble that I don't think I could live without. It shows a graph of the temperature and chance of rain for the next several hours, and has a mini calendar on it with color dots next to each day representing sunny, cloudy, rain or snow. Makes it real easy to tell at a glance what is coming up weather-wise.

phire 10y ago

I've owned a Pebble Time since that kickstarter and I've found that all I use it for is: * Telling the time * Tracking my activity level * Tracking my sleep * Timer and occasionally a smart Alarm * Letting me see my motivations without pulling my phone out. * changing volume/track on spotify. The fitbit charge 2 has most of those features, the main thing it's lacking are timer, smart alarm, spotify control and the more advanced alerts (apparently it only does text/calls and calendar). All those missing features are software features rather than hardware features, I kind of expect fitbit acquired pebble so it could get some of that technology.

brlewis 10y ago
Fitbit Blaze also shows notifications from apps you select.
- phire 10y ago
  Looks like it also has music control too. But I'm not sure how they manage to claim a 5 day with a color LCD display, I guess I should add the "always on display" to the list of pebble features I used.
Fnoord 10y ago
I was quite emotional the day I learned Pebble was RIP while from this article it seems the CEO gave a good shot to do the best for his customers and employees. Alas, nothing can replace it (yet) My Pebble Classic (!) can do: * Time/Date (with many watchfaces) * Calendar * Weather * Stepcounter * Sleep tracker * Alarms, Timers, and Stopwatch (smart alarm for sleep, other ones useful in the kitchen) * HRM (via SimplyHRM or Strava) * Running/bike tracking (native or e.g. w/Strava) * Music control (Spotify, awesome during sports) * Google Maps support (also with navigation) * 2FA HOTP * Oh, and notifications (w/filters) * With recharging once a week. Which also means the battery is gonna last, unlike those watches who recharge daily. * Works under shower, too. * And all this, for the price of ~100 EUR (a few EUR for some of the above apps). My Pebble had the dreaded graphics issue. Pebble 2 has build-in HRM, but it isn't as accurate as my Polar H7. Pebble 2 has a crystal clear screen, the design looks more professional, and the wristband is better than the previous iteration. The only thing I've never quite been able to set up, is managing a shopping list for in the grocery store (just with the ability to flag what is done). I miss such a feature so much! Using my smartphone for this is a ticking timebomb. One day, a kid is just gonna bump into me and poof its gonna drop on the floor. Won't happen with a smartwatch. And that is a use case right there, one no other device than a smartwatch can fulfill. I admit, smartwatch use cases right now are niches, but that doesn't mean they're irrelevant. Plus, in The Netherlands it is going to be illegal to use a smartphone on the bike. A smartphone is far more safe, and it won't drop. Being attached on the wrist has a clear advantage for use cases like these. One disadvantage is information leaking. Although smartphones are also vulnerable to that.

tw04 10y ago

If you've considered an Apple Watch then I'll give my requisite recommendation to look at a Garmin. It won't have quite the features that the Apple watch does - but it's perfectly usable as a standalone device, has a battery life long enough that I don't even think about it (think week(s)), and has amazing built-in GPS. It can potentially be more expensive than a Pebble, but competitive with an Apple watch, if not cheaper (depending on model). As a fitness tracker and notification machine I'd say it's superior to an Apple Watch - I haven't had an Apple Watch but have had android wear devices which seem to be about the same in terms of battery life and functionality.

revelation 10y ago

The "watch with largish LiIon battery" market is very odd. Nobody seems to have any clue what the market wants or what the market is. The only company doing reliably well is Garmin, who just iterated on their sports watches with low hanging fruit like smartphone notifications or step counters (one of the most bizarre features). Everyone else is just in a drunken random walk. So now there are watches that waste lots of battery on recording rough HR all day but totally fail reliably capturing HR during sport activities. I have no clue what they think that is doing, utterly useless.

rconti 10y ago
According to most on-wrist HR device reviews I've seen (for example, dcrainmaker), the on-wrist devices work just fine but filter 'noise' too aggressively to accurately capture your abrupt heart rate fall when doing intervals. For most people, this is 'good enough'. I have an AppleWatch2, Fitbit Charge HR, and a Suunto Ambit that uses a chest strap. To be honest, the chest strap is unreliable enough that I don't think I'd say that system works better than the on-wrist devices.

madenine 10y ago

Just picked up an Alta, I'd say its a smart watch-light. I wouldn't get a full smart watch, probably ever. I don't need a full screen on my wrist. For me, the killer features are: Tracks my steps/motion, tells time, vibration alerts and alarms. If they can keep making it smaller / more like a wrist band, I'll buy each new version that comes out. I want something small/subtle, not packed with features.

outworlder 10y ago

> The monochrome screen is also less attractive though IMO bearable. True. But the color is very nice. It's a bit washed out when the backlight is on, but ok.