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AWS announces new region in Canada

• exhilaration 10y ago
  For the curious, the data center is in Montreal according to the press release: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20161208006034/en/Amazon-Web-Services-Cloud-Customers-Data-Centers http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20161208006034/en/Amaz...
  • api 10y ago
    OVH has a monster data center there too. The region has very cheap power due to a lot of hydroelectric available.
    • gaius 10y ago
      OVH is French-speaking too, so they will probably have the advantage for now.
      • an_d_rew 10y ago
        Not Quebecois-French, though, LOL...
    • faeriol 10y ago
      The region should have become the Datacenter capital of North-America... Cold temperatures, Cheap (and renewable) power...
      • notheguyouthink 10y ago
        > Should have Is there a reason it didn't? (i'm not "in the know")
        • ihsw 10y ago
          Shit internet up until recently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Internet_Exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Internet_Exchange
          • chipperyman573 10y ago
            40GB/s??? How does amazon expect to put an entire region in there and to share the 40GB/s with the other hosts already up there (OVH)?
            • otoburb 10y ago
              If we believe the Cacti graphs, over the past several weeks the Montréal QIX peaked at 50Gbps[1]. Your comment implies that the QIX might be running over a mere 40Gbps link, but presumably their aggregate link capacity is (much?) higher than that. [1] http://www.qix.ca/en/qix/network http://www.qix.ca/en/qix/network
            • antaviana 10y ago
              Amazon connections between regions are owned by Amazon. Only last mile traffic would need to go to an Exchange.
            • rgbrenner 10y ago
              "averaging 40gbps" != "maximum 40gbps" Also, qix puts their member list online, and Amazon has a 10gbps port: http://www.qix.ca/en/members/membership http://www.qix.ca/en/members/membership From 2013: "deployed over 180 Gbps of capacity into the exchange." https://www.cologix.com/pdf/QIX-Case-Study.pdf https://www.cologix.com/pdf/QIX-Case-Study.pdf
            • mcmatterson 10y ago
              That's 40gbps of voluntary (technically settlement free, but not in the usual meaning of the term) peering, not paid transit. Paid transit numbers are several orders of magnitude higher, and total traffic numbers are unknown.
          • 10y ago
      • mistermann 10y ago
        Any idea what would a data center pay per year for cooling? Would it be worthwhile to build in a cooler location where cooling would be free in the winter? And maybe even (somehow) freeze water in the winter and melt it in the summer to provide additional "free" cooling? (Might be a bit of a stretch)
        • faeriol 10y ago
          Now for cooling, the montreal region has subzero temps from lateish november to somthing like almost april... Apparently Wikipedia has a half decent article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_in_Canada Not sure about that freeze water in the winter and use it in the summer idea at such a low latitude... But yes, using an artificial lake (or even a real one... given the population does not go bersek about protecting the wildlife) as a heat echanger might be an idea. Lake would most likely come close to freezing in the winter (need to engineer this properly) but in the summer you could get water from the depths to provide extra cooling power. Idea, put a beach there, get cheers from the population. Other idea: run a river from up north in your datacenter and you've got a nice cooling strategy for basically... free. Better idea yet... Build the datacenter on top of the hydroelectric damn... Last thing to do is to run the lines... Not like Quebec had not mastered running lines over hundreds of kilometers anyways, they've been importing power from the north for decades.
          • ficklepickle 10y ago
            Water is most dense around 4°C. Accordingly the bottom of a large body like the great lakes is near that temperature year round. This is part of the reason why fish can survive in lakes that freeze over in the winter. This is exploited in deep water source cooling [1]. Such a thing is implemented in Lake Ontario since 2004. Very cool imo :) [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_water_source_cooling https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_water_source_cooling
          • therein 10y ago
            I got an even better idea. Why not build the datacenter inside the hydroelectric dam? You get electricity from the turbines and cooling from the artificial lake at what's likely to be a high altitude. Now all you need it rock solid connectivity but you've got an incredibly small carbon footprint.
      • simonebrunozzi 10y ago
        You need proximity to a ton of people to become the Datacenter capital; I doubt Montreal qualifies.
        • deleted 10y ago
          [deleted]
        • smathieu 10y ago
          Montreal is the 19th largest metropolitan area in North America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_metropolitan_areas_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_metropo... It's also very close to the American North East for data transfer...
        • ficklepickle 10y ago
          600km(~360 miles) by road from NYC... Could possibly be worthwhile if the energy is significantly cheaper* * Pure speculation on my part
        • deleted 10y ago
          [deleted]
        • dghughes 10y ago
          I think the GTA has as many people ~8 million as all of Quebec ~8 million.
          • betaby 10y ago
            No, GTA is ~6M and Greater Montreal ~4 GTA is not that big in terms of population and very sparse comparable with other big metros.
    • wyck 10y ago
      OVH is actually located right inside a hydro dam about 15 minutes away from the city: http://www.hydroquebec.com/visit/monteregie/beauharnois.html http://www.hydroquebec.com/visit/monteregie/beauharnois.html
      • dx034 10y ago
        Where do you see that info? Couldn't find anything that they're actually in the dam, rather very close by?
        • wyck 10y ago
          Its mentioned on the wiki page , and several trade magazines about servers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauharnois,_Quebec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauharnois,_Quebec It's on the dam's land and about 300 meters from the actual dam itself.
  • richerlariviere 10y ago
    It is located in Montreal downtown
    • mattkrause 10y ago
      Really? There were rumors that it would be in Baie D’Urfe, which is on the southwest tip of the island, fairly far from downtown Montreal. Here's a job posting for "data center security" which seems to be located out there: https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/452269 https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/452269
    • dgemm 10y ago
      There are multiple sites, and if it's anything like other regions, then one at most would be downtown
      • richerlariviere 10y ago
        https://twitter.com/affairesmtl/status/807221404961800193 https://twitter.com/affairesmtl/status/807221404961800193
        • dgemm 10y ago
          You can read about what constitutes a region in the AWS documentation, and it's not one building downtown. Full disclosure: I work there.
  • count 10y ago
    FWIW, it's not 'a data center'. It's at least 3 a few miles apart from each other. They might (probably do) still end up in Montreal, depending on where those city/county limits lie.
    • smashed 10y ago
      According to [1] it seems there are 2 az. 1: https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global-infrastructure/ https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global-infrastructure/
      • deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      • discodave 10y ago
        S3, Dynamo and some other servicea always have three AZs, sometimes they only expose 2 EC2 AZs to save money in new/small regions. James Hamilton just announced that they were going to stop doing this but I guess this region was already under construction.
        • sudhirj 10y ago
          Aurora requires 3 as well, in order to establish quorum for leader elections in case of network partitions.
        • smashed 10y ago
          Makes sense, thanks for correcting me.
• gaurav-gupta 10y ago
  sure don't have to worry about keeping the servers cool eh? :)
  • tempestn 10y ago
    The location will help, but it's not like Montreal is in the frozen tundra. It's about 30 miles from the border with Vermont. All of Washington state is north of Montreal.
    • olalonde 10y ago
      It's not the frozen tundra but you can't compare climates with latitude alone. Montreal still gets a lot colder than Washington State or Vancouver. Source: https://gfycat.com/UnlinedAdorableElectriceel https://gfycat.com/UnlinedAdorableElectriceel
      • tempestn 10y ago
        Ha, yes, I know. The reference to Vermont was more relevant. I actually chose Washington state intentionally over North Dakota since its mild climate made for a more striking comparison. Factually correct, but perhaps a bit misleading.
    • bryanlarsen 10y ago
      It may not be frozen tundra, but Montreal does get quite a bit of snow, a lot more snow than the tundra does. AWS should use one of those giant snow dumps for cooling purposes -- those things often have snow well into August.
• ironlady 10y ago
  So many companies that legally required a server physically located in Canada are going to be running to AWS now, practically everyone touching health care, government, personal data, or even getting some level of government funding likely was obligated to keep things within Canadian borders.
  • davidjgraph 10y ago
    How can you be sure that data transmitting between the centre and user in Canada doesn't leave Canadian borders?
    • a-priori 10y ago
      You can't. Most data transmitted between cities in Canada goes through the US. The only mitigation is to make sure you encrypt everything in transit and ensure that the private keys never leave Canada.
      • toomuchtodo 10y ago
        And please please please make sure your server is configured to support Perfect Forward Secrecy. https://www.ssllabs.com/projects/best-practices/ https://www.ssllabs.com/projects/best-practices/
        • luhn 10y ago
          A good source for the recommended SSL configuration for Apache, nginx, et al.: https://mozilla.github.io/server-side-tls/ssl-config-generator/ https://mozilla.github.io/server-side-tls/ssl-config-generat...
    • mynameisvlad 10y ago
      I don't believe there's any requirements for the data to never cross borders on transmission, just that it must be stored in Canada.
      • 10y ago
• ironlady 10y ago
  So many companies that legally required a server physically located in Canada are going to be running to AWS now, practically everyone touching health care, government, personal data, or even getting some level of government funding likely was obligated to keep things within Canadian borders.
• neom 10y ago
  DigitalOcean also has a DC in Canada, this is really useful for companies in Canada or doing business in Canada that have requirements around keeping Canadian customer data in Canada. Additionally the Canadian startup ecosystem seems to be doing pretty well relatively to other regions.
  • Twirrim 10y ago
    Data Locality is going to continue to be a strong driver for cloud providers getting a presence in different countries. It feels like it's post-Snowden (but it may be I wasn't paying enough attention before then), but more and more countries have been passing data locality laws and are less willing to have their data residing in the US.
    • api 10y ago
      Does data locality matter if the servers are controlled by a US company?
      • Cyph0n 10y ago
        Well, in theory, US companies could still leak user data out, but the consequences are dire if Canada (or whoever) finds out. On the other hand, if Canadian user data is stored in AWS US East for example, then Canada can do absolutely nothing from a legal standpoint.
        • eigenvector 10y ago
          If the US government did demand data stored in Canada from a US company in contravention of Canadian law, wouldn't they just include a gag order so the US company can't tell their customer about it? And since the vast majority of the US company's assets and operations are in the US, they wouldn't dare stand up to the US government.
          • count 10y ago
            Microsoft is fighting for everybody on this one right now. http://www.technology-law-blog.co.uk/2016/07/relief-in-the-cloud-community-as-microsoft-wins-appeal-in-irish-email-server-case.html http://www.technology-law-blog.co.uk/2016/07/relief-in-the-c...
• simlevesque 10y ago
  I'm in Montreal. If I understand, most of the speed boost I might feel will be EC2 instances and CloudFront stuff. Will it have any effect on S3's latency ?
  • ta_wh 10y ago
    As far as I understand, it will have a positive effect on S3's latency, for straightforward reasons. But to what extent? Maybe some BOE calculations might help... Throwing out a guess, the gains probably won't be too extreme. EDIT: Of course this is dependent on what region you're currently in!
  • dgemm 10y ago
    It won't affect latency to any bucket in any other region. But if you create an S3 bucket in Montreal then you should have excellent latency to that.
• coding123 10y ago
  Good move for AWS and Canada :)
• josephscott 10y ago
  And the blog post about this from Jeff Barr - https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/now-open-aws-canada-central-region/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/now-open-aws-canada-central...
  • jeffbarr 10y ago
    Thanks!
• ris 10y ago
  Got to wonder if there's been an uptick in enquiries about moving some operations across the border in the last month.
  • alex_anglin 10y ago
    n=1 and all, but the Internet Archive's Canadian mirror is a notable example: https://blog.archive.org/2016/11/29/help-us-keep-the-archive-free-accessible-and-private/ https://blog.archive.org/2016/11/29/help-us-keep-the-archive...
  • dorfsmay 10y ago
    The site went live today. It takes a lot more than a month to plan something like this! As others have commented, I do think it has more to do with legal requirements (health industry etc...).
• numbsafari 10y ago
  I hear it runs on maple syrup.
  • kahnpro 10y ago
    I live in Montreal and the local authorities have already begun maple syrup rationing due to the new data centre. I'm only permitted one litre per month. People are starting to riot.
    • perardi 10y ago
      Maple syrup is serious business/organized crime in Montreal. CBC: Reputed ringleader in $18.7M maple syrup heist found guilty http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/maple-syrup-heist-quebec-canada-guilty-1.3848431 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/maple-syrup-heist-que...
• dubcanada 10y ago
  The prices seem to have a 14% roughly increase compared to US East. I also assume that this also means Canadian tax is going to start being added onto all the prices?
  • vacri 10y ago
    Yes. They add Australian, Japanese, and UK tax to services run in those regions. Canada will be in the same boat.
  • deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
• metaloha 10y ago
  When did Montreal become "central" Canada? Why didn't Amazon call it Canada East instead?
  • skylan_q 10y ago
    As far as I've ever known, Ontario and Quebec are central Canada.
    • cmrdporcupine 10y ago
      Growing up in Alberta, people often referred to Ontario/QC as "out east" and "down east." My brother still does that. And many people there seem unable to make a proper distinction between eastern and central Canada economically or politically too.
      • mthoms 10y ago
        In my experience, Ontario and Quebec are colloquially referred to as "Out East" or "Eastern Provinces" while the Atlantic provinces are referred to more often as "The Maritimes" or the "East Coast".
    • mthoms 10y ago
      I'm curious - where did you grow up? Growing up in Ontario I remember always being told we were in "Eastern Canada".
    • alfredxing 10y ago
      Ontario/Quebec are definitely commonly called "East" out here in Vancouver. The Maritimes are, well, the Maritimes. Central usually means the prairies.
    • wattt 10y ago
      Central Canada means Manitoba mostly, since it is geographic centre as well as being in central timezone.
    • metaloha 10y ago
• edblarney 10y ago
  Finally. We are so similar to the US, that we're generally considered an afterthought for everything. 'Just give them the us thing' is the US companies Canadian strategy ...
• forrestbrazeal 10y ago
  This announcement actually broke some code of mine today. I have a scheduled AWS Lambda function that downloads the current EC2 Price List every hour to make some real-time cost savings calculations for stopped resources. The addition of the Canada prices to that file made it just a bit too large for the memory assigned to the function, causing a silent "Process exited without completing request" crash. Good times.
  • nothrabannosir 10y ago
    Purely out of curiosity; are you allowed to share how much time this cost you to make, and how much money / month it saves you? I love the idea, and the fact that you actually implemented it. :)
    • forrestbrazeal 10y ago
      It's part of a larger system called Hanover (built entirely on Lambda/API Gateway/DynamoDB/static S3) that handles scheduled shutdowns and cost savings reports across our many AWS development accounts. We built the shutdown POC in less than a week - the front end reporting console took a bit longer. We may open source it at some point. In the meantime you can check out: - A session my boss did at re:Invent that touches on some of our cloud management tools, including Hanover [0] - A blog post I did back when we were putting this together that explains our approach to calculating EC2 prices for live instances (it's not as easy as you would think/hope) [1] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epx_32c3c6s&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epx_32c3c6s&feature=youtu.be [1] https://forrestbrazeal.com/2016/09/25/adventures-in-aws-understanding-the-price-list-api/ https://forrestbrazeal.com/2016/09/25/adventures-in-aws-unde...
• mcrae 10y ago
  I wonder how they are coming up with the region names? Most are cities (Sao Paolo, Frankfurt), some are countries (Ireland), some regions (N. Virginia, Oregon). This new region is unique in that is does not refer to an actual place, and that the name alone is not descriptive (in the AWS console, it says just "Central" in the header).
  • discodave 10y ago
    Maybe it's just in case Quebec secedes. ;) In all seriousness I can see AWS eventually having to put multiple regions in some countries because the x province doesn't trust the y province.
• redwood 10y ago
  Would love to see three AZs