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Show HN: Fun tool that cut my family and friends tech support time in half

285 points by fiesycal 10y ago

ars 10y ago
When you type in a problem, don't open google in a different window. I'm technical, and I didn't notice the new window (tab actually) till much later - I just thought the site was broken and ignored what I typed. Someone non-technical is for sure not going to notice it.
nathancahill 10y ago
So the first 2 are rebooting and making sure it has power. The third is "up to date". I do quite a bit of tech support for my family and neither of those issues are really issues. The #1 issue for me is "this free app I installed wanted to install a browser addon and now I see ads everywhere". The #2 is "this free app I installed hijacks everything on my Mac to show ads". I've spent countless hours educating them about malware, but how can they know that the app that promises to make their computer fast again is malware?
- ekianjo 10y ago
  The best thing I ever found to reduce the risk of malware is to move them to a Linux distro. The risk is not zero but from a user perspective I install the software they need from package repositories remotely, and that more or less settles it. Of course this is not for everyone, but for folks who for the most only need a browser a Linux distro is a good choice.
  - jessriedel 10y ago
    If your solution to malware problems with an unsophisticated user is to just cripple their ability to install anything, why not let instead let them keep Windows/Mac and give them an account with minimal privileges?
    - jjnoakes 10y ago
      Because he is probably way more familiar with remote administration of a Linux machine.
      - ekianjo 10y ago
        Precisely.
    - mclifton 10y ago
      That's how I set up the in-laws laptop with Windows 10. I kept all admin privileges in a separate account with a password only I know. They both get their own unprivileged user accounts, with the standard protections turned on (Firewall, Defender). Haven't had an issue so far, and it's been about 6 months.
    - andrepd 10y ago
      Cripple their ability to install anything? What are you suggesting?
      - mhurron 10y ago
        How do you install TurboTax on Linux? None of the software they have, none of the software anyone they know uses will install on their Linux machine. Very quickly most will get the idea that the computer is broken and you need to come and fix it because you were the one that broke it.
        funnyfacts365 10y ago
        Then you charge them money and do as they ask. Or they can go ask someone else to do it for free, maybe that friend who recommended the software that doesn't run on Linux, given that they know better than you...
        mhurron 10y ago
        If you want to throw a wedge in between you and your family over this that's fine, but you did break it by preventing them from doing what they wanted with their computer.
  - sgk284 10y ago
    For folks who mostly just need a browser and for whom malware is a risk, you really can't do better than an iPad. I love Linux, but there really is no beating an iPad if you need a PC-approximate that is absurdly low maintenance.
    - rudedogg 10y ago
      There's also CloudReady, it's based on Chromium OS. I installed it on a relatives computer after making sure they just needed a browser, and so far so good. It's been around 4-6 months and they said it's working fine. https://www.neverware.com/#introtext-3 https://www.neverware.com/#introtext-3
    - p10_user 10y ago
      My parents hardly ever use a desktop computer since getting tablets and smart phones, but they still need and use one for business activities (self employment Excel entries, scanning and emailing documents, taxes). So while I wholeheartedly agree with you, I don't think the tablet can necessarily 100% eliminate the need for a desktop computer.
    - intrasight 10y ago
      iPads are great. But what beats it is a Fire HD8. I got one for me and for my mother-in-law on CyberMonday for $56 each. That's about 1/10th the price of an iPad. I did not login to Amazon. I did install Chrome and VLC so she has music, videos, and the web - all one needs on such a device. Hopefully it gets rooted soon so I can install a generic Android ROM.
      - jethro_tell 10y ago
        What sort of OS support updates is that getting?
        intrasight 10y ago
        OTA OS updates still occur on Fire tablet even if you don't register. I've disabled them via OpenDns in case the current OS version becomes rootable.
- AWildDHHAppears 10y ago
  On a Mac!? That's impossible. There's no malware on a Mac!
- nathancahill 10y ago
  I can't edit my comment anymore, but I should have been clear. My family is relatively tech-savy: My father is a photographer and a power user in a handful of Adobe apps. He manages backup disk arrays and can debug most common computer problems. The real issue is that malware (adware?) is so damn convincing that he honestly believes it will make his 2 year old computer cleaner/better/faster/longer battery life. Once these apps are installed, they set themselves up in /Library/LaunchDaemons, /Library/LaunchAgents, browser addons, default search engines and several other places and they are absolutely a pain to get rid of over the phone. So no, the solution for them is not, switch to Chromebooks. Ideally Apple would update their existing malware rules to include these "legitimate" but extremely shady apps.
- spullara 10y ago
  Restrict them to installing only from the Mac App Store.
- coroxout 10y ago
  I had the opposite problem recently: how can they know that things are not malware? My dad complained that his laptop would pop up "strange pictures" and ask if he "liked what he saw" and that they kept coming up even though he always said no. I thought he'd acquired some sort of malware popping up fake dating site ads, but it turned out that he had upgraded to Windows 10 and was referring to the scenic photos it now shows at the login prompt/unlock screen...
  - mcherm 10y ago
    That is actually one of the better stories of family tech support that I have heard. I laughed out loud, but in sympathy, not maliciously. Thanks for sharing!
QuercusMax 10y ago
I'm not sure why "No" is dark; it almost looks like it's pre-clicked. Is the idea to trick them into doing what it asked?
howderek 10y ago
I think this needs a "I don't know" option that leads to links to support pages. I've certainly dealt with friends and family who don't know how to check if their software is up to date and update it if it's not. I also think the "Did this fix your problem?" prompts after saying "Yes" are redundant.
- diziet 10y ago
  The "Did this fix your problem?" interrupts the flow and forces people to pay attention to the question instead of blindly clicking, and it is certainly there on purpose.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- asdfasdfa11112 10y ago
  Depending on the device, I would say. Maybe if it were phrased, "Do you regularly see annoying popups that ask you to update your software?" Shoot, I guess even that is a poor wording. I do know, however, that every time Apple pushes an iOS update, I get a text from my mom to see if she should accept the update. (She got an iphone last summer for the first time, and does not know how to install apps.)
sornaensis 10y ago
> Have you tried turning it on and off again? Um. Joke on the first question? Or typo?
wishinghand 10y ago
I thought it was just going to be an amazon affiliate link to a Chromebook.
arikrak 10y ago
This reminds me of https://xkcd.com/627/ https://xkcd.com/627/. I think both both these 'tools' could be expanded a bit to be more useful (though maybe less humorous). Though one issue with less tech-knowledgable people is that they may have trouble following some instructions from Google and the like.
rcdmd 10y ago
Equal parts tongue-in-cheek and time-saving.
saycheese 10y ago
Another common issue is if the device needs to be plugged in that the outlet or power strip is not receiving power.
jkfhdslk 10y ago
I put "[expletive] everywhere" as a joke for describing the problem with the phone, and then it google searched that, resulting in a hard command + W. lame.
src3 10y ago
The last step should be replaced by some sort of autogenerated https://lmgtfy.com https://lmgtfy.com link. :)
- 24gttghh 10y ago
  An automatic lmgtfy link? How meta :) I find this tool to be subtely-less-insulting to the end-user than lmgtfy, especially if they don't happen to read the blog post where it says[0]: "Just send the link to anyone who takes up a bit too much of your valuable time." [0]https://www.grammable.me/blogs/news/grammable-it-support-tool-gist https://www.grammable.me/blogs/news/grammable-it-support-too...
catshirt 10y ago
nice work. would be cool (albeit maybe difficult), to summarize the best result instead of taking them to Google directly. i suspect anyone using this page who gets to the Google results page will have no idea where to stat when they get there. a less interesting solution would maybe be to provide a video that explains how to Google solutions for technical issues & error messages.
- fiesycal 10y ago
  Yea that would be awesome. Maybe I can work on it in the next version.
givinguflac 10y ago
Neat. Personally I would say "turn it off and on again" while this says the reverse. If it's targeted at a non-technical user, it needs to be foolproof. I have helped users before that would see this and literally turn their computer on and off, and wonder why the computer isn't working while off as instructed.
- jethro_tell 10y ago
  Some people can't be helped.
- rosstex 10y ago
  This is the funniest part of the whole tool
vacri 10y ago
This didn't help me with my high-load mongodb server issue... :(
- nathancahill 10y ago
  Honestly turning it off and back on again usually helps the mongodbs :/
grecy 10y ago
I'm a software engineer, and I have no idea what "is your device up to date?" means. Does that mean do I have the latest iPhone, or do I have the latest device drivers (I think I have heard that from Windows users). Not too sure there.
- djsumdog 10y ago
  My exact same thoughts. I was like, "Where's the button my parents would click?"
  - econnors 10y ago
    The thought of my mom calling me for help answering a question on the debugging tool I gave her made me laugh.
panorama 10y ago
One thing I'd particularly like when dealing with my parents' issues is an _easy_ way to set up remote screenshare and access. It's one thing when the problem is that their computer isn't booting (in which this site would definitely help ;)), but another if the problem is that they can't find a file they downloaded or something like that. I'd pay for a tool like this that was easy to set up and use that didn't have to involve my parents installing TeamViewer, coordinating a channel, and so on. Edit: Thanks for the advice all, will install one of these suggestions when I head home for the holidays.
- perishabledave 10y ago
  IIRC Fog Creek's Copilot was specifically for that purpose. Not sure how actively it's being maintained now thought. https://www.copilot.com/ https://www.copilot.com/ I had hopes that Screen Hero would fill that role before Slack bought them out. Still a great tool, wish it wasn't tied to Slack though.
- joeax 10y ago
  I had my mom install the join.me app on her laptop and tablet. When she has problems she just types "join.me" in the browser (or opens the app) and reads me the join code over the phone. In a couple minutes I find that disabled setting, or the app she installed but can't find, or clean up the crapware from the kitten screensaver she installed, and she's on her way.
- an_account 10y ago
  If you both have macs, it's built in, but sort of hidden. Just open up messages on both computer -> go to your parents' contact -> click details -> click the button next to their name that looks like two screens (it's next to the video chat button). It'll ring on their computer, all they have to do is accept. Edit: Apparently you can just spotlight search for the "screen sharing" application and just type in their apple id.
- Confusion 10y ago
  I installed TeamViewer for them and set it up to allow remote access from my account, with a safe password. I can access their computer without their involvement. It doesn't get any easier than that.
rudedogg 10y ago
I think you may as well say "Sorry, I'm not going to help you. Search Google. Bye." It's annoying being asked to help with support, but if it's someone I care about I would never send them this. Maybe I'm missing the joke?
chirau 10y ago
I can't believe that some people here think that it is better to move your relatives, who are scared/prone to malware but don't think to restart their computer first, to Linux. What a joke really. Linux is good and all, but come on people, among iOS, MacOS, Windows, Chrome and Linux, it's the least usable and least user friendly.
- morganvachon 10y ago
  It depends on the user, you can't make such a blanket statement and expect to be taken seriously. My non-techie wife wandered onto my Elementary OS installation one day while I was at work, and despite having never used anything but Windows on the desktop (not even a Mac) she navigated just fine without me there to guide her. She was able to use it to go online, find something she wanted to print, print it, and then download, edit, and save a photo she wanted for her blog. Granted, those weren't pro-level tasks, but it's typical of what your average Grandma will do with her PC. Everything the average user does these days is all done in the browser; Google grokked that, and we now have Chrome OS. I'd love to move my mother to Elementary (I've previously considered a Chromebook for her but my new stance on Google gives me pause) just so she will not be as susceptible to drive-by malware. I think if you give folks a fighting chance, you'll find that Windows doesn't have to be the only OS for Mr. and Mrs. Average User.
  - keithpeter 10y ago
    Users below the upper quartile (if we can model computer competence along a single axis) are coping just fine with a range of OSes on mobile devices including tablets - Android, iOS. People are getting used to working out slightly unfamiliar interfaces.
    - webmaven 10y ago
      Which raises the whole problem of mobile device resource hogs and adware.
- eklavya 10y ago
  My father, sisters would disagree. I only had Linux on the home computer for last 7-8 years. There are absolutely no support requirements, because it keeps on working the same way with no surprises. They can not setup windows, macOS, linux by themselves, but once setup for them Linux is the most effective solution and least headache for me.
wyldfire 10y ago
Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/627/ https://xkcd.com/627/
morgl 10y ago
>Have you tried turning it on and off again? It seems that the tool is inspired by the 'IT crowd'. IRL, unfortunately people may skip the first steps thinking that they are taken as idiots.
julienmarie 10y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8
sturmeh 10y ago
90% of my family support requests are caused by updating software.
PostOnce 10y ago
I looked at grammable.me to see what it is. Looks like instapainting.com arbitrage, I wonder how long that will be viable.
- Leszek 10y ago
  Also looks like a similar attempt to SEO and get customers by posting unrelated techie stuff under the same domain -- cf. instapainting discussion in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767.
- edelans 10y ago
  I thought about it too. I checked the WHOIS record : Domain Name: GRAMMABLE.ME Registry Domain ID: D425500000001103903-AGRS Registrar WHOIS Server: Registrar URL: www.namecheap.com Updated Date: 2016-11-25T10:04:27Z Creation Date: 2016-11-25T10:04:19Z grammable.me was registered a few weeks after the [indiehacker article on instapainting](https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting) buzzed on HN about a month ago : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767 . Don't know what to think about it, looks like a bit unfair to me to copy cat someone who decided to share so much of his experience. I would love to know what Chris Chen (instapainting founder) and Courtland Allen (indie hacker founder) think about it. Personally I really enjoy reading indie hacker stories, I find it very inspiring. It would be a shame people stop sharing their success because some guys copy cat them...
- milankragujevic 10y ago
  I can't even load it, it freezes my laptop and forces me to reboot or wait for 2 minutes before Chrome prompts me to kill the tab. (Intel Celeron N3160 + 4GB RAM)
appelza 10y ago
Trust silly shit like this to make the top of HN. Omg, what tech did u use to create this, on your macbook???
- sctb 10y ago
  Please comment civilly and substantively on Hacker News or not at all. We ban accounts that continue like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - appelza 10y ago
    nah
Deestan 10y ago
I would add a "I don't know" option. Family members who need tech support from me are generally unable to answer things like: > Is your device up to date? First, they aren't familiar with what is considered a "device". Does it mean the calendar app on the phone (where they see observed problems)? Surely it can't mean their iPad, because that's an iPad and not a "device". The "device" must be the charger thingy. What does "updated" mean? The clock and date are correct, is that what it means? The SIM card is just a week old, so that means device is updated, right? Or they updated their calendar app, so then all is good. Or maybe "device" refers to the internet box at home? If they correctly identify it as "probably not updated", the next instruction is equally opaque: > Update it. This needs a "how?" answer, in addition to "okay".
- sspiff 10y ago
  Most commonly, people coming to me for help make a blanket statement like "X is broken", where X could be their phone, computer, an application or website, the Internet as a whole. X is also generally inaccurate. For instance, if the browser icon on my parents computer is moved for whatever reason, they will say that "the Internet is broken". If my mother can't figure out what button to press in a mobile application to get what she wants, "her phone is broken".
  - Zelmor 10y ago
    Maybe you should start with the basic concepts next time you are around. Explain things like computer, internet, operating system, programs. Just in a Feynman style of explanation, very brief and easy to understand. Once my mother called that the tablet said it had a virus and should scan immediately. I asked what she saw on the screen, what she was doing when it occurred. It was an aggressive pop-up in an app she was using. I explained to her the intent of these pop-ups, which she understood and said that it did look fishy, hence her call. Next time I was around, I rooted their device and put an ad-blocker on it.
    - Ziomislaw 10y ago
      If only it was that easy. Most of the ppl having simmilar problems will only pretend to listen and remember your explanations, only to run to you with the exact same problem in a couple of hours.
sabujp 10y ago
Is my system up to date? Yes I'm running the latest vanilla kernel and latest atheros firmware and my wifi connectivity still sucks.
Tempest1981 10y ago
But you still need a paper/offline version, for when they call to tell you that the Internet is down.
cgvgffyv 10y ago
Fun machine that will cut your family and friends tech support time completely: An iPad. /thread
koliber 10y ago
Regarding the "is it plugged in?" question. A great anecdote I heard was that the support person on the phone asked if the power plug was clean. The user was confused. The support person told them to unplug it, blow the dust out of the holes, and plug it back in. This fixed the problem! The issue was that the power plug was in the socket, but too loose to connect. Somehow, the support person figured this was the case (prior experience?) and knew that if he asked "is it plugged in?" he would get a "yes". Taking the power plug out and putting it back in ensured that it would be in properly. But just asking the person to do that can be faced with push-back or even a lie that they did it (since the power plug obviously was already connected). I always chuckled at the story but did not think it was true. I worked tech support while attending university. One time, I had an on-site where the monitor just stopped working. We went through the standard question on the phone, including asking if it is plugged in, and of course it was. Could not get it fixed over the phone. Once on-site, it turned out it was a loose power cable. I could have avoided an on-site had I only asked them to blow the dust out of the power cable. Maybe this should be added to the questionnaire.
- Jaruzel 10y ago
  It's the Nintendo Cartridge Effect.
  - sleepychu 10y ago
    Aaactually I suspect that's to do with capacitors. You allow them time to discharge. Still a great name for this though!
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - seanp2k2 10y ago
      Unless there are bleeder resistors (common when you have tons of capacitance e.g. In higher-end audio amps) or components which otherwise drain the caps, they'll likely hold a charge a lot longer than the 30 seconds someone would spend blowing the dust out.
known 10y ago
You fixed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle
owenwil 10y ago
The easiest way to fix my family and friends' tech support time was buying them a Mac. Even better, moving the trickier ones to Chromebooks. Nobody calls anymore.
amelius 10y ago
You should add an option to add questions. If you crowdsource it, you could end up with a giant support-question tree! Then it could be fun AND useful :) See [1] for a similar idea, but applied to guessing animals. See [2] for a more serious approach. [1] http://www.animalgame.com/ http://www.animalgame.com/ [2] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/095219769290052L http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/09521976929...
madshiva 10y ago
I did all and it's still not working What is not working? I don't know but it's not working (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
anotheryou 10y ago
Well... usually the device works somehow and they are incapable of giving a good description of the problem. That's the real problem. I used the tool like my mother would and had these Problems: 1. the device is on! Of course I know it's plugged in! 2. "is the device up to date". What does that mean? The clock seems to be going correctly! It's not the newest model, but fairly recent... 3. I now have the google results for "the titles don't work anymore" - I think far more helpful would be a simple form helping writing a report: - What is the name of the program where the problem occurs (you can find that here [screenshot showing a title bar]) - Describe step by step what you did when the error occurred. Once done, please do these exact steps again to see if the problem still occurs. - What did you expect to happen? - What did actually happen? - Did it work before? - If it did, when did it work the last time? Did you change anything since than? - Any further guesses on what might be relevant to the problem or what might cause it? - When we solve the problem, what do I get? (multiple choice: nothing - still owed me one, a beer, a hug, other [ ])
Yizahi 10y ago
Tech support for my family is usually "WiFi is not working", "WiFi is working only on his device and not mine", "WiFi is turning on and of randomly and constantly". I hate WiFi :) . It is almost impossible to debug and usually ends in rebooting all involved devices, sometimes it helps.
z3t4 10y ago
It's interesting that the nr1 most common problem with a computer is the internal state, so it has to be restarted.
nrki 10y ago
FYI it's "power cord" not "power chord". Power chord is a music thing. Power cord is a cord that supplies power.
oliv__ 10y ago
I wasn't sure what to expect when it asked me to type my problem in: when that tab opened that gave me a good laugh haha. So true.
sharemywin 10y ago
can I suggest a question to ask what software they are using. Then append it to your google search. So, it would look like "Excel copy and paste"
JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Anybody else find this too cute and patronizing? Its the guy saying "You're an idiot and I'm too smart and busy to be bothered by family. Your problems don't matter."
- dark_ph0enix 10y ago
  No, not really. Deal with a handful of end users and all of sudden this makes a heap of sense.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    Whether it makes sense or not is beside the point. Its insulting to be treated like a child. That's unarguable.
marvin 10y ago
This site is blocked by Fortiguard at my workplace, just FYI.

285 points by fiesycal 10y ago

ars 10y ago

When you type in a problem, don't open google in a different window. I'm technical, and I didn't notice the new window (tab actually) till much later - I just thought the site was broken and ignored what I typed. Someone non-technical is for sure not going to notice it.

nathancahill 10y ago

So the first 2 are rebooting and making sure it has power. The third is "up to date". I do quite a bit of tech support for my family and neither of those issues are really issues. The #1 issue for me is "this free app I installed wanted to install a browser addon and now I see ads everywhere". The #2 is "this free app I installed hijacks everything on my Mac to show ads". I've spent countless hours educating them about malware, but how can they know that the app that promises to make their computer fast again is malware?

ekianjo 10y ago
The best thing I ever found to reduce the risk of malware is to move them to a Linux distro. The risk is not zero but from a user perspective I install the software they need from package repositories remotely, and that more or less settles it. Of course this is not for everyone, but for folks who for the most only need a browser a Linux distro is a good choice.
- jessriedel 10y ago
  If your solution to malware problems with an unsophisticated user is to just cripple their ability to install anything, why not let instead let them keep Windows/Mac and give them an account with minimal privileges?
  - jjnoakes 10y ago
    Because he is probably way more familiar with remote administration of a Linux machine.
    - ekianjo 10y ago
      Precisely.
  - mclifton 10y ago
    That's how I set up the in-laws laptop with Windows 10. I kept all admin privileges in a separate account with a password only I know. They both get their own unprivileged user accounts, with the standard protections turned on (Firewall, Defender). Haven't had an issue so far, and it's been about 6 months.
  - andrepd 10y ago
    Cripple their ability to install anything? What are you suggesting?
    - mhurron 10y ago
      How do you install TurboTax on Linux? None of the software they have, none of the software anyone they know uses will install on their Linux machine. Very quickly most will get the idea that the computer is broken and you need to come and fix it because you were the one that broke it.
      - funnyfacts365 10y ago
        Then you charge them money and do as they ask. Or they can go ask someone else to do it for free, maybe that friend who recommended the software that doesn't run on Linux, given that they know better than you...
        mhurron 10y ago
        If you want to throw a wedge in between you and your family over this that's fine, but you did break it by preventing them from doing what they wanted with their computer.
- sgk284 10y ago
  For folks who mostly just need a browser and for whom malware is a risk, you really can't do better than an iPad. I love Linux, but there really is no beating an iPad if you need a PC-approximate that is absurdly low maintenance.
  - rudedogg 10y ago
    There's also CloudReady, it's based on Chromium OS. I installed it on a relatives computer after making sure they just needed a browser, and so far so good. It's been around 4-6 months and they said it's working fine. https://www.neverware.com/#introtext-3 https://www.neverware.com/#introtext-3
  - p10_user 10y ago
    My parents hardly ever use a desktop computer since getting tablets and smart phones, but they still need and use one for business activities (self employment Excel entries, scanning and emailing documents, taxes). So while I wholeheartedly agree with you, I don't think the tablet can necessarily 100% eliminate the need for a desktop computer.
  - intrasight 10y ago
    iPads are great. But what beats it is a Fire HD8. I got one for me and for my mother-in-law on CyberMonday for $56 each. That's about 1/10th the price of an iPad. I did not login to Amazon. I did install Chrome and VLC so she has music, videos, and the web - all one needs on such a device. Hopefully it gets rooted soon so I can install a generic Android ROM.
    - jethro_tell 10y ago
      What sort of OS support updates is that getting?
      - intrasight 10y ago
        OTA OS updates still occur on Fire tablet even if you don't register. I've disabled them via OpenDns in case the current OS version becomes rootable.
AWildDHHAppears 10y ago
On a Mac!? That's impossible. There's no malware on a Mac!
nathancahill 10y ago
I can't edit my comment anymore, but I should have been clear. My family is relatively tech-savy: My father is a photographer and a power user in a handful of Adobe apps. He manages backup disk arrays and can debug most common computer problems. The real issue is that malware (adware?) is so damn convincing that he honestly believes it will make his 2 year old computer cleaner/better/faster/longer battery life. Once these apps are installed, they set themselves up in /Library/LaunchDaemons, /Library/LaunchAgents, browser addons, default search engines and several other places and they are absolutely a pain to get rid of over the phone. So no, the solution for them is not, switch to Chromebooks. Ideally Apple would update their existing malware rules to include these "legitimate" but extremely shady apps.
spullara 10y ago
Restrict them to installing only from the Mac App Store.
coroxout 10y ago
I had the opposite problem recently: how can they know that things are not malware? My dad complained that his laptop would pop up "strange pictures" and ask if he "liked what he saw" and that they kept coming up even though he always said no. I thought he'd acquired some sort of malware popping up fake dating site ads, but it turned out that he had upgraded to Windows 10 and was referring to the scenic photos it now shows at the login prompt/unlock screen...
- mcherm 10y ago
  That is actually one of the better stories of family tech support that I have heard. I laughed out loud, but in sympathy, not maliciously. Thanks for sharing!

QuercusMax 10y ago

I'm not sure why "No" is dark; it almost looks like it's pre-clicked. Is the idea to trick them into doing what it asked?

howderek 10y ago

I think this needs a "I don't know" option that leads to links to support pages. I've certainly dealt with friends and family who don't know how to check if their software is up to date and update it if it's not. I also think the "Did this fix your problem?" prompts after saying "Yes" are redundant.

diziet 10y ago
The "Did this fix your problem?" interrupts the flow and forces people to pay attention to the question instead of blindly clicking, and it is certainly there on purpose.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
asdfasdfa11112 10y ago
Depending on the device, I would say. Maybe if it were phrased, "Do you regularly see annoying popups that ask you to update your software?" Shoot, I guess even that is a poor wording. I do know, however, that every time Apple pushes an iOS update, I get a text from my mom to see if she should accept the update. (She got an iphone last summer for the first time, and does not know how to install apps.)

sornaensis 10y ago

> Have you tried turning it on and off again? Um. Joke on the first question? Or typo?

wishinghand 10y ago

I thought it was just going to be an amazon affiliate link to a Chromebook.

arikrak 10y ago

This reminds me of https://xkcd.com/627/ https://xkcd.com/627/. I think both both these 'tools' could be expanded a bit to be more useful (though maybe less humorous). Though one issue with less tech-knowledgable people is that they may have trouble following some instructions from Google and the like.

rcdmd 10y ago

Equal parts tongue-in-cheek and time-saving.

saycheese 10y ago

Another common issue is if the device needs to be plugged in that the outlet or power strip is not receiving power.

jkfhdslk 10y ago

I put "[expletive] everywhere" as a joke for describing the problem with the phone, and then it google searched that, resulting in a hard command + W. lame.

src3 10y ago

The last step should be replaced by some sort of autogenerated https://lmgtfy.com https://lmgtfy.com link. :)

24gttghh 10y ago
An automatic lmgtfy link? How meta :) I find this tool to be subtely-less-insulting to the end-user than lmgtfy, especially if they don't happen to read the blog post where it says[0]: "Just send the link to anyone who takes up a bit too much of your valuable time." [0]https://www.grammable.me/blogs/news/grammable-it-support-tool-gist https://www.grammable.me/blogs/news/grammable-it-support-too...

catshirt 10y ago

nice work. would be cool (albeit maybe difficult), to summarize the best result instead of taking them to Google directly. i suspect anyone using this page who gets to the Google results page will have no idea where to stat when they get there. a less interesting solution would maybe be to provide a video that explains how to Google solutions for technical issues & error messages.

fiesycal 10y ago
Yea that would be awesome. Maybe I can work on it in the next version.

givinguflac 10y ago

Neat. Personally I would say "turn it off and on again" while this says the reverse. If it's targeted at a non-technical user, it needs to be foolproof. I have helped users before that would see this and literally turn their computer on and off, and wonder why the computer isn't working while off as instructed.

jethro_tell 10y ago
Some people can't be helped.
rosstex 10y ago
This is the funniest part of the whole tool

vacri 10y ago

This didn't help me with my high-load mongodb server issue... :(

nathancahill 10y ago
Honestly turning it off and back on again usually helps the mongodbs :/

grecy 10y ago

I'm a software engineer, and I have no idea what "is your device up to date?" means. Does that mean do I have the latest iPhone, or do I have the latest device drivers (I think I have heard that from Windows users). Not too sure there.

djsumdog 10y ago
My exact same thoughts. I was like, "Where's the button my parents would click?"
- econnors 10y ago
  The thought of my mom calling me for help answering a question on the debugging tool I gave her made me laugh.

panorama 10y ago

One thing I'd particularly like when dealing with my parents' issues is an _easy_ way to set up remote screenshare and access. It's one thing when the problem is that their computer isn't booting (in which this site would definitely help ;)), but another if the problem is that they can't find a file they downloaded or something like that. I'd pay for a tool like this that was easy to set up and use that didn't have to involve my parents installing TeamViewer, coordinating a channel, and so on. Edit: Thanks for the advice all, will install one of these suggestions when I head home for the holidays.

perishabledave 10y ago
IIRC Fog Creek's Copilot was specifically for that purpose. Not sure how actively it's being maintained now thought. https://www.copilot.com/ https://www.copilot.com/ I had hopes that Screen Hero would fill that role before Slack bought them out. Still a great tool, wish it wasn't tied to Slack though.
joeax 10y ago
I had my mom install the join.me app on her laptop and tablet. When she has problems she just types "join.me" in the browser (or opens the app) and reads me the join code over the phone. In a couple minutes I find that disabled setting, or the app she installed but can't find, or clean up the crapware from the kitten screensaver she installed, and she's on her way.
an_account 10y ago
If you both have macs, it's built in, but sort of hidden. Just open up messages on both computer -> go to your parents' contact -> click details -> click the button next to their name that looks like two screens (it's next to the video chat button). It'll ring on their computer, all they have to do is accept. Edit: Apparently you can just spotlight search for the "screen sharing" application and just type in their apple id.
Confusion 10y ago
I installed TeamViewer for them and set it up to allow remote access from my account, with a safe password. I can access their computer without their involvement. It doesn't get any easier than that.

rudedogg 10y ago

I think you may as well say "Sorry, I'm not going to help you. Search Google. Bye." It's annoying being asked to help with support, but if it's someone I care about I would never send them this. Maybe I'm missing the joke?

chirau 10y ago

I can't believe that some people here think that it is better to move your relatives, who are scared/prone to malware but don't think to restart their computer first, to Linux. What a joke really. Linux is good and all, but come on people, among iOS, MacOS, Windows, Chrome and Linux, it's the least usable and least user friendly.

morganvachon 10y ago
It depends on the user, you can't make such a blanket statement and expect to be taken seriously. My non-techie wife wandered onto my Elementary OS installation one day while I was at work, and despite having never used anything but Windows on the desktop (not even a Mac) she navigated just fine without me there to guide her. She was able to use it to go online, find something she wanted to print, print it, and then download, edit, and save a photo she wanted for her blog. Granted, those weren't pro-level tasks, but it's typical of what your average Grandma will do with her PC. Everything the average user does these days is all done in the browser; Google grokked that, and we now have Chrome OS. I'd love to move my mother to Elementary (I've previously considered a Chromebook for her but my new stance on Google gives me pause) just so she will not be as susceptible to drive-by malware. I think if you give folks a fighting chance, you'll find that Windows doesn't have to be the only OS for Mr. and Mrs. Average User.
- keithpeter 10y ago
  Users below the upper quartile (if we can model computer competence along a single axis) are coping just fine with a range of OSes on mobile devices including tablets - Android, iOS. People are getting used to working out slightly unfamiliar interfaces.
  - webmaven 10y ago
    Which raises the whole problem of mobile device resource hogs and adware.
eklavya 10y ago
My father, sisters would disagree. I only had Linux on the home computer for last 7-8 years. There are absolutely no support requirements, because it keeps on working the same way with no surprises. They can not setup windows, macOS, linux by themselves, but once setup for them Linux is the most effective solution and least headache for me.

wyldfire 10y ago

Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/627/ https://xkcd.com/627/

morgl 10y ago

>Have you tried turning it on and off again? It seems that the tool is inspired by the 'IT crowd'. IRL, unfortunately people may skip the first steps thinking that they are taken as idiots.

julienmarie 10y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8

sturmeh 10y ago

90% of my family support requests are caused by updating software.

PostOnce 10y ago

I looked at grammable.me to see what it is. Looks like instapainting.com arbitrage, I wonder how long that will be viable.

Leszek 10y ago
Also looks like a similar attempt to SEO and get customers by posting unrelated techie stuff under the same domain -- cf. instapainting discussion in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767.
edelans 10y ago
I thought about it too. I checked the WHOIS record : Domain Name: GRAMMABLE.ME Registry Domain ID: D425500000001103903-AGRS Registrar WHOIS Server: Registrar URL: www.namecheap.com Updated Date: 2016-11-25T10:04:27Z Creation Date: 2016-11-25T10:04:19Z grammable.me was registered a few weeks after the [indiehacker article on instapainting](https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting) buzzed on HN about a month ago : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767 . Don't know what to think about it, looks like a bit unfair to me to copy cat someone who decided to share so much of his experience. I would love to know what Chris Chen (instapainting founder) and Courtland Allen (indie hacker founder) think about it. Personally I really enjoy reading indie hacker stories, I find it very inspiring. It would be a shame people stop sharing their success because some guys copy cat them...
milankragujevic 10y ago
I can't even load it, it freezes my laptop and forces me to reboot or wait for 2 minutes before Chrome prompts me to kill the tab. (Intel Celeron N3160 + 4GB RAM)

appelza 10y ago

Trust silly shit like this to make the top of HN. Omg, what tech did u use to create this, on your macbook???

sctb 10y ago
Please comment civilly and substantively on Hacker News or not at all. We ban accounts that continue like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- appelza 10y ago
  nah

Deestan 10y ago

I would add a "I don't know" option. Family members who need tech support from me are generally unable to answer things like: > Is your device up to date? First, they aren't familiar with what is considered a "device". Does it mean the calendar app on the phone (where they see observed problems)? Surely it can't mean their iPad, because that's an iPad and not a "device". The "device" must be the charger thingy. What does "updated" mean? The clock and date are correct, is that what it means? The SIM card is just a week old, so that means device is updated, right? Or they updated their calendar app, so then all is good. Or maybe "device" refers to the internet box at home? If they correctly identify it as "probably not updated", the next instruction is equally opaque: > Update it. This needs a "how?" answer, in addition to "okay".

sspiff 10y ago
Most commonly, people coming to me for help make a blanket statement like "X is broken", where X could be their phone, computer, an application or website, the Internet as a whole. X is also generally inaccurate. For instance, if the browser icon on my parents computer is moved for whatever reason, they will say that "the Internet is broken". If my mother can't figure out what button to press in a mobile application to get what she wants, "her phone is broken".
- Zelmor 10y ago
  Maybe you should start with the basic concepts next time you are around. Explain things like computer, internet, operating system, programs. Just in a Feynman style of explanation, very brief and easy to understand. Once my mother called that the tablet said it had a virus and should scan immediately. I asked what she saw on the screen, what she was doing when it occurred. It was an aggressive pop-up in an app she was using. I explained to her the intent of these pop-ups, which she understood and said that it did look fishy, hence her call. Next time I was around, I rooted their device and put an ad-blocker on it.
  - Ziomislaw 10y ago
    If only it was that easy. Most of the ppl having simmilar problems will only pretend to listen and remember your explanations, only to run to you with the exact same problem in a couple of hours.

sabujp 10y ago

Is my system up to date? Yes I'm running the latest vanilla kernel and latest atheros firmware and my wifi connectivity still sucks.

Tempest1981 10y ago

But you still need a paper/offline version, for when they call to tell you that the Internet is down.

cgvgffyv 10y ago

Fun machine that will cut your family and friends tech support time completely: An iPad. /thread

koliber 10y ago

Regarding the "is it plugged in?" question. A great anecdote I heard was that the support person on the phone asked if the power plug was clean. The user was confused. The support person told them to unplug it, blow the dust out of the holes, and plug it back in. This fixed the problem! The issue was that the power plug was in the socket, but too loose to connect. Somehow, the support person figured this was the case (prior experience?) and knew that if he asked "is it plugged in?" he would get a "yes". Taking the power plug out and putting it back in ensured that it would be in properly. But just asking the person to do that can be faced with push-back or even a lie that they did it (since the power plug obviously was already connected). I always chuckled at the story but did not think it was true. I worked tech support while attending university. One time, I had an on-site where the monitor just stopped working. We went through the standard question on the phone, including asking if it is plugged in, and of course it was. Could not get it fixed over the phone. Once on-site, it turned out it was a loose power cable. I could have avoided an on-site had I only asked them to blow the dust out of the power cable. Maybe this should be added to the questionnaire.

Jaruzel 10y ago
It's the Nintendo Cartridge Effect.
- sleepychu 10y ago
  Aaactually I suspect that's to do with capacitors. You allow them time to discharge. Still a great name for this though!
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    Unless there are bleeder resistors (common when you have tons of capacitance e.g. In higher-end audio amps) or components which otherwise drain the caps, they'll likely hold a charge a lot longer than the 30 seconds someone would spend blowing the dust out.

known 10y ago

You fixed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

owenwil 10y ago

The easiest way to fix my family and friends' tech support time was buying them a Mac. Even better, moving the trickier ones to Chromebooks. Nobody calls anymore.

amelius 10y ago

You should add an option to add questions. If you crowdsource it, you could end up with a giant support-question tree! Then it could be fun AND useful :) See [1] for a similar idea, but applied to guessing animals. See [2] for a more serious approach. [1] http://www.animalgame.com/ http://www.animalgame.com/ [2] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/095219769290052L http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/09521976929...

madshiva 10y ago

I did all and it's still not working What is not working? I don't know but it's not working (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

anotheryou 10y ago

Well... usually the device works somehow and they are incapable of giving a good description of the problem. That's the real problem. I used the tool like my mother would and had these Problems: 1. the device is on! Of course I know it's plugged in! 2. "is the device up to date". What does that mean? The clock seems to be going correctly! It's not the newest model, but fairly recent... 3. I now have the google results for "the titles don't work anymore" - I think far more helpful would be a simple form helping writing a report: - What is the name of the program where the problem occurs (you can find that here [screenshot showing a title bar]) - Describe step by step what you did when the error occurred. Once done, please do these exact steps again to see if the problem still occurs. - What did you expect to happen? - What did actually happen? - Did it work before? - If it did, when did it work the last time? Did you change anything since than? - Any further guesses on what might be relevant to the problem or what might cause it? - When we solve the problem, what do I get? (multiple choice: nothing - still owed me one, a beer, a hug, other [ ])

Yizahi 10y ago

Tech support for my family is usually "WiFi is not working", "WiFi is working only on his device and not mine", "WiFi is turning on and of randomly and constantly". I hate WiFi :) . It is almost impossible to debug and usually ends in rebooting all involved devices, sometimes it helps.

z3t4 10y ago

It's interesting that the nr1 most common problem with a computer is the internal state, so it has to be restarted.

nrki 10y ago

FYI it's "power cord" not "power chord". Power chord is a music thing. Power cord is a cord that supplies power.

oliv__ 10y ago

I wasn't sure what to expect when it asked me to type my problem in: when that tab opened that gave me a good laugh haha. So true.

sharemywin 10y ago

can I suggest a question to ask what software they are using. Then append it to your google search. So, it would look like "Excel copy and paste"

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

Anybody else find this too cute and patronizing? Its the guy saying "You're an idiot and I'm too smart and busy to be bothered by family. Your problems don't matter."

dark_ph0enix 10y ago
No, not really. Deal with a handful of end users and all of sudden this makes a heap of sense.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  Whether it makes sense or not is beside the point. Its insulting to be treated like a child. That's unarguable.

marvin 10y ago

This site is blocked by Fortiguard at my workplace, just FYI.