5 ms·

Russian deaths from malnutrition rate 5x lower than in the US

13 points by ommunist 10y ago

internaut 10y ago
Russians have a habit of employing scientific information in their daily lives. For instance: I've been told that a Russian or Eastern European weather forecaster sometimes gives health advice based on the air pressure changes. In America or the UK I know this would be dismissed as 'woo'. Unless it was contextualized correctly of course. Such as between friends or within a relevant domain like medicine. Sometimes I worry we might be retarded.
- dekhn 10y ago
  It's more likely that Russia simply underreports malnutrition. Anyway, got more specifics on the weather forecaster giving health advice on air pressure changes? I mean, other than, "watch out for rain"?
  - tetromino_ 10y ago
    For one thing, air pressure changes are a common trigger for migraines: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/migraine-headache/expert-answers/migraine-headache/faq-20058505 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/migraine-heada... http://www.webmd.com/migraines-headaches/headache-and-migraine-trigger-weather http://www.webmd.com/migraines-headaches/headache-and-migrai...
    - dekhn 10y ago
      And so what would you do if you had a migraine? It's not like you can adjust the pressure by staying inside- it equilibrates.
      - internaut 10y ago
        You might want to talk to some engineers about that. It may be possible to have a fine degree of control over air pressure in today's high spec houses because of their high air tightness requirements. I don't know that it is possible, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was because they are so tight they have to employ mechanical ventilation. I know hospitals employ air pressure as a way of controlling for disease spreading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_room_pressure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_room_pressure
        dpark 10y ago
        > It may be possible to have a fine degree of control over air pressure in today's high spec houses because of their high air tightness requirements. Houses are not that airtight. Long before a house gets airtight enough to maintain a pressure differential efficiently, the occupants will get ill as off-gassing from carpets and paints and wood finishes cannot escape. If you run a large negative pressure in a typical house, you also risk carbon monoxide poisoning from sucking exhaust from the furnace into the living space. > I know hospitals employ air pressure as a way of controlling for disease spreading. They use air pressure this way specifically because construction is not airtight. If you run a negative pressure differential (which requires a pretty beefy blower to accomplish and isn't very energy efficient), you end up pulling air in from all the gaps and cracks and porous materials, which means that contaminated air is not going into all the gaps and cracks and porous materials.
        internaut 10y ago
        > Houses are not that airtight. Long before a house gets airtight enough to maintain a pressure differential efficiently, the occupants will get ill as off-gassing from carpets and paints and wood finishes cannot escape. They are that airtight. That is why they put in mechanical ventilation such as HRV and ERV. The houses are that air tight that off-gassing is a problem once they get down below 0.6 ACH @ 50 pascals as they do in passive house builds. > If you run a large negative pressure in a typical house, you also risk carbon monoxide poisoning from sucking exhaust from the furnace into the living space. It happens, I read this the other week. https://www.reddit.com/r/TinyHouses/comments/5ec33i/the_big_tiny_house_problem_nobody_seems_to_be/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TinyHouses/comments/5ec33i/the_big_... > They use air pressure this way specifically because construction is not airtight. If you run a negative pressure differential (which requires a pretty beefy blower to accomplish and isn't very energy efficient), you end up pulling air in from all the gaps and cracks and porous materials, which means that contaminated air is not going into all the gaps and cracks and porous materials. I understand why a negative pressure room works. The linked to Wikipedia page explains it. They are an example of manipulating air pressure to affect an outcome. What I don't understand is what point you're trying to make. If it is that the air tightness of a house coupled with a HRV is not sufficient to effect barometric pressure on a human body, then I already acknowledged that might be so. It also might be sufficient, which is why suggested getting an expert's opinion.
      - DanBC 10y ago
        You can make sure you have your medication ready.
        dekhn 10y ago
        If you have migraines, wouldn't you always have your meds? Pressure isn't the only cause, so it's not like people would say "oh, I might get a migraine" and bring their pill that day, but leave it home otherwise. You're coming up with increasingly implausible explanations for why metereologists giving "health" advice means a culture is more scientific.
        DanBC 10y ago
        > You're > increasingly I've only given one (admittedly bad) example!
      - tetromino_ 10y ago
        The valuable thing is that you'd know in advance that you are likely getting a migraine, giving you a chance to adjust your activities for the day. For example, you may want to reschedule your dream job interview.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  What kind of health advice relies on air pressure ? wearing masks ? (no sarcasm)
  - internaut 10y ago
    Yes, probably. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-04/thunderstorm-asthma-warning-for-victoria-as-weather-heats-up/8090670 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-04/thunderstorm-asthma-wa... If changes in barometric pressure change how pollen is dispersed then wearing a mask might be the right answer for a person with respiratory problems.
- dpark 10y ago
  > I've been told that a Russian or Eastern European weather forecaster sometimes gives health advice based on the air pressure changes. The weather forecaster is not qualified to give medical advice, so this does not seem to constitute "employing scientific information" in daily life. If by "woo" you mean pseudoscience worth ignoring then yes, it sounds like "woo".
  - internaut 10y ago
    This is very real. Barometric pressure directly affects your ability to breathe. Recently several people died by asthma attack in Australia and thousands of people with no preexisting history of respiratory illness suddenly developed symptoms. The most likely explanation so far was the sudden change in barometric pressure and high pollen counts. If atmospheric pressure decreases it shall lower your blood pressure. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-pressure/expert-answers/blood-pressure/faq-20058250 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-pre... More generally, weather has a direct effect on mood and behaviour. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/11/09/weather-can-change-your-mood/ http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/11/09/weather-can...
    - dpark 10y ago
      > Barometric pressure directly affects your ability to breathe. Sure. Go for a jog on a mountain and you'll find that you miss the higher pressure. > Recently several people died by asthma attack in Australia and thousands of people with no preexisting history of respiratory illness suddenly developed symptoms. The most likely explanation so far was the sudden change in barometric pressure and high pollen counts. Thousands unexpectedly developed symptoms? This is hard to believe. Also impossible to separate from the high pollen count that's known to cause problems for millions. > If atmospheric pressure decreases it shall lower your blood pressure. That's some serious cherry-picking. It's an article about cold weather causing higher blood pressure with a brief mention of other potential factors that mostly only affect people over 65. > More generally, weather has a direct effect on mood and behaviour. Obviously.
      - 10y ago
whack 10y ago
Setting Russia aside for a second, the UK has a malnutrition rate that's 4-5x lower than the US as well. Why is this? I suspect this is related to the high rates of obesity in the US, and that this site is including all deaths caused by obesity related problems?
- dpark 10y ago
  France also has a rate ~4x higher than the US, and even Norway has a rate double that of the US. I do wonder how much of this is difference is legitimate differences between countries and how much is a difference in categorization. Are the French really 20x as likely to die of malnutrition as the neighboring Germans?
  - marcosdumay 10y ago
    How much of it is pure noise? Those numbers are smaller than 1/100,000. You are counting 200 occurrences an year at the US, and many less at France or Germany.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      I have it hard time to believe that only 200 people die in the US due to malnutrition it's likely different classification. Death due to lack of certain nutrients isn't that uncommon. While VAD deaths in the US and the west are probably rare VDD related deaths are quite common especially in cardiac cases. Same goes for many other things. If you only count acute starvation then 200 cases per year might make sense but diet has a huge impact on mortality.
      - marcosdumay 10y ago
        That's the number on the link, rounding up US population, and down the death rate. A single hospital misclassifying deaths could double it and maybe not even raise an alarm.
      - dpark 10y ago
        > Death due to lack of certain nutrients isn't that uncommon. Citation? My understanding is that study after study has generally shown little impact from vitamin supplementation except in specific cases where subjects show obvious signs of deficiency (e.g. iron deficiency in pregnant women). > VDD related deaths are quite common especially in cardiac cases I'm assuming this is "vitamin D deficiency". I'd against ask for a citation. I couldn't find anything supporting this claim. Seems to be a risk factor but that's very different than being caused by the deficiency. We’re still a few years away from clinical trials that explore the possible link between taking vitamin D supplements to achieve higher vitamin D levels, and lower cardiovascular risk. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heart_vascular_institute/clinical_services/centers_excellence/womens_cardiovascular_health_center/patient_information/health_topics/vitamin_d_and_the_heart.html http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heart_vascular_institute/clin...
wnevets 10y ago
According to the russian media they also have higher levels of freedom there too.
cjensen 10y ago
Gosh I'd need to know a lot more about this number before drawing any conclusions. For example, what counts as malnutrition? In the US, do addicts die from spending too little on food? If a baby dies due to untreated gestational diabetes, is that malnutrition? Does Russia categorize the death of a drunk differently than the US? So many sad questions.
yenda 10y ago
The rate is so high In France it's hard to believe.
- dpark 10y ago
  20x the rate in Germany. It's very hard to believe this data is consistent across nations.

13 points by ommunist 10y ago

Russians have a habit of employing scientific information in their daily lives. For instance: I've been told that a Russian or Eastern European weather forecaster sometimes gives health advice based on the air pressure changes. In America or the UK I know this would be dismissed as 'woo'. Unless it was contextualized correctly of course. Such as between friends or within a relevant domain like medicine. Sometimes I worry we might be retarded.

dekhn 10y ago
It's more likely that Russia simply underreports malnutrition. Anyway, got more specifics on the weather forecaster giving health advice on air pressure changes? I mean, other than, "watch out for rain"?
- tetromino_ 10y ago
  For one thing, air pressure changes are a common trigger for migraines: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/migraine-headache/expert-answers/migraine-headache/faq-20058505 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/migraine-heada... http://www.webmd.com/migraines-headaches/headache-and-migraine-trigger-weather http://www.webmd.com/migraines-headaches/headache-and-migrai...
  - dekhn 10y ago
    And so what would you do if you had a migraine? It's not like you can adjust the pressure by staying inside- it equilibrates.
    - internaut 10y ago
      You might want to talk to some engineers about that. It may be possible to have a fine degree of control over air pressure in today's high spec houses because of their high air tightness requirements. I don't know that it is possible, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was because they are so tight they have to employ mechanical ventilation. I know hospitals employ air pressure as a way of controlling for disease spreading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_room_pressure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_room_pressure
      - dpark 10y ago
        > It may be possible to have a fine degree of control over air pressure in today's high spec houses because of their high air tightness requirements. Houses are not that airtight. Long before a house gets airtight enough to maintain a pressure differential efficiently, the occupants will get ill as off-gassing from carpets and paints and wood finishes cannot escape. If you run a large negative pressure in a typical house, you also risk carbon monoxide poisoning from sucking exhaust from the furnace into the living space. > I know hospitals employ air pressure as a way of controlling for disease spreading. They use air pressure this way specifically because construction is not airtight. If you run a negative pressure differential (which requires a pretty beefy blower to accomplish and isn't very energy efficient), you end up pulling air in from all the gaps and cracks and porous materials, which means that contaminated air is not going into all the gaps and cracks and porous materials.
        internaut 10y ago
        > Houses are not that airtight. Long before a house gets airtight enough to maintain a pressure differential efficiently, the occupants will get ill as off-gassing from carpets and paints and wood finishes cannot escape. They are that airtight. That is why they put in mechanical ventilation such as HRV and ERV. The houses are that air tight that off-gassing is a problem once they get down below 0.6 ACH @ 50 pascals as they do in passive house builds. > If you run a large negative pressure in a typical house, you also risk carbon monoxide poisoning from sucking exhaust from the furnace into the living space. It happens, I read this the other week. https://www.reddit.com/r/TinyHouses/comments/5ec33i/the_big_tiny_house_problem_nobody_seems_to_be/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TinyHouses/comments/5ec33i/the_big_... > They use air pressure this way specifically because construction is not airtight. If you run a negative pressure differential (which requires a pretty beefy blower to accomplish and isn't very energy efficient), you end up pulling air in from all the gaps and cracks and porous materials, which means that contaminated air is not going into all the gaps and cracks and porous materials. I understand why a negative pressure room works. The linked to Wikipedia page explains it. They are an example of manipulating air pressure to affect an outcome. What I don't understand is what point you're trying to make. If it is that the air tightness of a house coupled with a HRV is not sufficient to effect barometric pressure on a human body, then I already acknowledged that might be so. It also might be sufficient, which is why suggested getting an expert's opinion.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      You can make sure you have your medication ready.
      - dekhn 10y ago
        If you have migraines, wouldn't you always have your meds? Pressure isn't the only cause, so it's not like people would say "oh, I might get a migraine" and bring their pill that day, but leave it home otherwise. You're coming up with increasingly implausible explanations for why metereologists giving "health" advice means a culture is more scientific.
        DanBC 10y ago
        > You're > increasingly I've only given one (admittedly bad) example!
    - tetromino_ 10y ago
      The valuable thing is that you'd know in advance that you are likely getting a migraine, giving you a chance to adjust your activities for the day. For example, you may want to reschedule your dream job interview.
agumonkey 10y ago
What kind of health advice relies on air pressure ? wearing masks ? (no sarcasm)
- internaut 10y ago
  Yes, probably. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-04/thunderstorm-asthma-warning-for-victoria-as-weather-heats-up/8090670 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-04/thunderstorm-asthma-wa... If changes in barometric pressure change how pollen is dispersed then wearing a mask might be the right answer for a person with respiratory problems.
dpark 10y ago
> I've been told that a Russian or Eastern European weather forecaster sometimes gives health advice based on the air pressure changes. The weather forecaster is not qualified to give medical advice, so this does not seem to constitute "employing scientific information" in daily life. If by "woo" you mean pseudoscience worth ignoring then yes, it sounds like "woo".
- internaut 10y ago
  This is very real. Barometric pressure directly affects your ability to breathe. Recently several people died by asthma attack in Australia and thousands of people with no preexisting history of respiratory illness suddenly developed symptoms. The most likely explanation so far was the sudden change in barometric pressure and high pollen counts. If atmospheric pressure decreases it shall lower your blood pressure. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-pressure/expert-answers/blood-pressure/faq-20058250 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-pre... More generally, weather has a direct effect on mood and behaviour. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/11/09/weather-can-change-your-mood/ http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/11/09/weather-can...
  - dpark 10y ago
    > Barometric pressure directly affects your ability to breathe. Sure. Go for a jog on a mountain and you'll find that you miss the higher pressure. > Recently several people died by asthma attack in Australia and thousands of people with no preexisting history of respiratory illness suddenly developed symptoms. The most likely explanation so far was the sudden change in barometric pressure and high pollen counts. Thousands unexpectedly developed symptoms? This is hard to believe. Also impossible to separate from the high pollen count that's known to cause problems for millions. > If atmospheric pressure decreases it shall lower your blood pressure. That's some serious cherry-picking. It's an article about cold weather causing higher blood pressure with a brief mention of other potential factors that mostly only affect people over 65. > More generally, weather has a direct effect on mood and behaviour. Obviously.
    - 10y ago

whack 10y ago

Setting Russia aside for a second, the UK has a malnutrition rate that's 4-5x lower than the US as well. Why is this? I suspect this is related to the high rates of obesity in the US, and that this site is including all deaths caused by obesity related problems?

dpark 10y ago
France also has a rate ~4x higher than the US, and even Norway has a rate double that of the US. I do wonder how much of this is difference is legitimate differences between countries and how much is a difference in categorization. Are the French really 20x as likely to die of malnutrition as the neighboring Germans?
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  How much of it is pure noise? Those numbers are smaller than 1/100,000. You are counting 200 occurrences an year at the US, and many less at France or Germany.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    I have it hard time to believe that only 200 people die in the US due to malnutrition it's likely different classification. Death due to lack of certain nutrients isn't that uncommon. While VAD deaths in the US and the west are probably rare VDD related deaths are quite common especially in cardiac cases. Same goes for many other things. If you only count acute starvation then 200 cases per year might make sense but diet has a huge impact on mortality.
    - marcosdumay 10y ago
      That's the number on the link, rounding up US population, and down the death rate. A single hospital misclassifying deaths could double it and maybe not even raise an alarm.
    - dpark 10y ago
      > Death due to lack of certain nutrients isn't that uncommon. Citation? My understanding is that study after study has generally shown little impact from vitamin supplementation except in specific cases where subjects show obvious signs of deficiency (e.g. iron deficiency in pregnant women). > VDD related deaths are quite common especially in cardiac cases I'm assuming this is "vitamin D deficiency". I'd against ask for a citation. I couldn't find anything supporting this claim. Seems to be a risk factor but that's very different than being caused by the deficiency. We’re still a few years away from clinical trials that explore the possible link between taking vitamin D supplements to achieve higher vitamin D levels, and lower cardiovascular risk. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heart_vascular_institute/clinical_services/centers_excellence/womens_cardiovascular_health_center/patient_information/health_topics/vitamin_d_and_the_heart.html http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heart_vascular_institute/clin...

wnevets 10y ago

According to the russian media they also have higher levels of freedom there too.

cjensen 10y ago

Gosh I'd need to know a lot more about this number before drawing any conclusions. For example, what counts as malnutrition? In the US, do addicts die from spending too little on food? If a baby dies due to untreated gestational diabetes, is that malnutrition? Does Russia categorize the death of a drunk differently than the US? So many sad questions.

yenda 10y ago

The rate is so high In France it's hard to believe.

dpark 10y ago
20x the rate in Germany. It's very hard to believe this data is consistent across nations.