6 ms·

Kill flash, they said.. Flash version, [at least] 5 years ago: http://tsuyobi.heteml.jp/unity/flash/AngryBots/ http://tsuyobi.heteml.jp/unity/flash/AngryBots/

by k_ 10y ago

Kill flash, they said.. Flash version, [at least] 5 years ago: http://tsuyobi.heteml.jp/unity/flash/AngryBots/ http://tsuyobi.heteml.jp/unity/flash/AngryBots/ It's great to see WASM coming at last, but I must admit I'm a little disappointed (for now, anyway). Huge download, and though it runs smoothly (firefox 50) I'm not really impressed given what was possible with the flash version.

AstroJetson 10y ago
WASM won't work on my browser, but the flash version does. ... and there goes Tuesdays work plan...
- sp332 10y ago
  For me it's the opposite. And my browser shortcuts like closing tabs still work in the WASM version.
wingless 10y ago
I have always found the "Flash is horrible, kill Flash" circlejerk very unproductive. Flash was the best solution we had to media in the web ecosystem, and if we still had it, it would still be the best solution by far!
bartread 10y ago
Haha - I've run into exactly this problem writing games in HTML5 and JavaScript. I was all smug thinking, "Hah - screw these Flash guys and their stupid loading progress bars because of all that dreadful Flash bloat. I'll show them!" Except, of course, I didn't, did I? Because most of that bloat is actually game assets (graphics, textures, sound effects, music, oh, and time spent churning out procedurally generated content), and not just the useless crap I thought it probably was(1), so it makes no difference what you're using as a platform, and you still end up with a progress bar (basically). The code on its own comes down in a flash, but that's only a part of the equation, and in terms of load/initialisation time, not a big part. Still, what I never do is display a pop-up prompting the user to install Flash, or Unity, or Java, or whatever, which is a definite improvement. (1) In fairness I do download all sfx and music in the background, so you don't have to wait for them all to load before you can start playing.
bhouston 10y ago
I think the issue was the separate flash runtime was a pain to maintain and make secure. I think battery life was also an issue. I wonder when the first "no wasm" browser plugins will come.
- BatFastard 10y ago
  The flash runtime still exists on iphones, now its called AIR. And you have to buy it thru the app store.
koonsolo 10y ago
Old-timers as myself already saw this coming. The main idea of killing Flash was because some websites completely ran on it, which is bad. But games never was an issue, and never will be. Battery life, system resources, downloading assets, ..., it's all the same if you use either Flash or JavaScript. Newsflash: Apple didn't block Flash because it is "bad", they blocked it because they wanted you to go through their app store Newsflash: Games written for Flash (in ActionScript3) also run on Android and iOS. It even became "Best Mobile Application Development product" of 2014 and 2015. They say Flash advertisement banners were annoying, so what do you think about those JavaScript popup banners that pop in the middle of the page you are reading, saying "Please subscribe to our mailing list"? I you develop a game for Flash, it runs consistently in the Flash plugin. If you develop a game in JavaScript, you need to test it in all browsers you want to support. And yes, they are all different. And still gives troubles so many years later. Surprising? Not for old farts like myself. But no worries. I looked at my google analytics for the past few years. Most visitors moved to Chrome. Flash plugin installed percentage: remained the same.
- mawburn 10y ago
  http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/15/11679394/chrome-to-block-flash-later-2016 http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/15/11679394/chrome-to-block-f... Nails in the coffin.
  - koonsolo 10y ago
    I still need to see how this turns out in practice. But if they completely get rid of it, this will mean more headaches for game developers, and more gamers crying that stuff doesn't work. Non-game related, this might actually be a good thing. But coming from a game development background, this is a huge step back, both for game developers and gamers who want to play straight in the browser. But as said, we will see how inconvenient they make it.
- mamadrood 10y ago
  Flash also has huge security flaws and memory leaks. Pretty much like Java applets. At least with JS, if it leaks or has security breach, the browser's developer can fix it without waiting for a 3rd party, or I can use a different browser.
tonmoy 10y ago
IMO flash didn't fit into the open web vision, if I wanted to make my own browser, it couldn't gain traction until adobe decided to release flash for my browser
- captainmuon 10y ago
  Side note, the "open web" is probably one of the most misleading phrases of the last couple years. Because: > if I wanted to make my own browser muhahahaha (sorry). What I am trying to say, is that basically nobody can make a new browser from scratch today (not just a redecorated webkit). The only entities that can create or maintain browsers are megacorporations (Apple, MS, Google) or dedicated foundations (Mozilla). Now, imagine a parallel universe where there is a standardized API for browser plugins which run in a sandbox (unlike NPAPI). Any startup can easily create bring new technologies to the web platform. You could put the plugins on the OS'es app store and vet them like regular apps if yuo like. Virtual reality, accessing a 3D printer, custom hardware, ... or just better network access and the ability to run a IMAP mail client, a terminal, or a bittorrent client in the browser (without a server). I'd argue that the "open web" is actually one of the less open possible architectures, and limits what you can do. And the reason for this are business interests of Apple & co.: Why would you sell your app in the app store and give apple a 30% cut, if you could do everything a native app can in the browser? And I also bet some of the restrictions of the open web are benefitting the content industry - like restricting what formats you can use, the inability to use full networking (and to create a P2P "pirate itunes" without central server in the browser), the introduction of DRM in the browser (EME) and so on.
  - BatFastard 10y ago
    I agree captain, but this whole discussion is starting to resemble The_Donald thread on Reddit.
amelius 10y ago
Also, it doesn't really show the potential of WASM, since most of the graphics is done in OpenGL anyway.

by k_ 10y ago

AstroJetson 10y ago

WASM won't work on my browser, but the flash version does. ... and there goes Tuesdays work plan...

sp332 10y ago
For me it's the opposite. And my browser shortcuts like closing tabs still work in the WASM version.

wingless 10y ago

I have always found the "Flash is horrible, kill Flash" circlejerk very unproductive. Flash was the best solution we had to media in the web ecosystem, and if we still had it, it would still be the best solution by far!

bartread 10y ago

Haha - I've run into exactly this problem writing games in HTML5 and JavaScript. I was all smug thinking, "Hah - screw these Flash guys and their stupid loading progress bars because of all that dreadful Flash bloat. I'll show them!" Except, of course, I didn't, did I? Because most of that bloat is actually game assets (graphics, textures, sound effects, music, oh, and time spent churning out procedurally generated content), and not just the useless crap I thought it probably was(1), so it makes no difference what you're using as a platform, and you still end up with a progress bar (basically). The code on its own comes down in a flash, but that's only a part of the equation, and in terms of load/initialisation time, not a big part. Still, what I never do is display a pop-up prompting the user to install Flash, or Unity, or Java, or whatever, which is a definite improvement. (1) In fairness I do download all sfx and music in the background, so you don't have to wait for them all to load before you can start playing.

bhouston 10y ago

I think the issue was the separate flash runtime was a pain to maintain and make secure. I think battery life was also an issue. I wonder when the first "no wasm" browser plugins will come.

BatFastard 10y ago
The flash runtime still exists on iphones, now its called AIR. And you have to buy it thru the app store.

koonsolo 10y ago

Old-timers as myself already saw this coming. The main idea of killing Flash was because some websites completely ran on it, which is bad. But games never was an issue, and never will be. Battery life, system resources, downloading assets, ..., it's all the same if you use either Flash or JavaScript. Newsflash: Apple didn't block Flash because it is "bad", they blocked it because they wanted you to go through their app store Newsflash: Games written for Flash (in ActionScript3) also run on Android and iOS. It even became "Best Mobile Application Development product" of 2014 and 2015. They say Flash advertisement banners were annoying, so what do you think about those JavaScript popup banners that pop in the middle of the page you are reading, saying "Please subscribe to our mailing list"? I you develop a game for Flash, it runs consistently in the Flash plugin. If you develop a game in JavaScript, you need to test it in all browsers you want to support. And yes, they are all different. And still gives troubles so many years later. Surprising? Not for old farts like myself. But no worries. I looked at my google analytics for the past few years. Most visitors moved to Chrome. Flash plugin installed percentage: remained the same.

mawburn 10y ago
http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/15/11679394/chrome-to-block-flash-later-2016 http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/15/11679394/chrome-to-block-f... Nails in the coffin.
- koonsolo 10y ago
  I still need to see how this turns out in practice. But if they completely get rid of it, this will mean more headaches for game developers, and more gamers crying that stuff doesn't work. Non-game related, this might actually be a good thing. But coming from a game development background, this is a huge step back, both for game developers and gamers who want to play straight in the browser. But as said, we will see how inconvenient they make it.
mamadrood 10y ago
Flash also has huge security flaws and memory leaks. Pretty much like Java applets. At least with JS, if it leaks or has security breach, the browser's developer can fix it without waiting for a 3rd party, or I can use a different browser.

tonmoy 10y ago

IMO flash didn't fit into the open web vision, if I wanted to make my own browser, it couldn't gain traction until adobe decided to release flash for my browser

captainmuon 10y ago
Side note, the "open web" is probably one of the most misleading phrases of the last couple years. Because: > if I wanted to make my own browser muhahahaha (sorry). What I am trying to say, is that basically nobody can make a new browser from scratch today (not just a redecorated webkit). The only entities that can create or maintain browsers are megacorporations (Apple, MS, Google) or dedicated foundations (Mozilla). Now, imagine a parallel universe where there is a standardized API for browser plugins which run in a sandbox (unlike NPAPI). Any startup can easily create bring new technologies to the web platform. You could put the plugins on the OS'es app store and vet them like regular apps if yuo like. Virtual reality, accessing a 3D printer, custom hardware, ... or just better network access and the ability to run a IMAP mail client, a terminal, or a bittorrent client in the browser (without a server). I'd argue that the "open web" is actually one of the less open possible architectures, and limits what you can do. And the reason for this are business interests of Apple & co.: Why would you sell your app in the app store and give apple a 30% cut, if you could do everything a native app can in the browser? And I also bet some of the restrictions of the open web are benefitting the content industry - like restricting what formats you can use, the inability to use full networking (and to create a P2P "pirate itunes" without central server in the browser), the introduction of DRM in the browser (EME) and so on.
- BatFastard 10y ago
  I agree captain, but this whole discussion is starting to resemble The_Donald thread on Reddit.

amelius 10y ago

Also, it doesn't really show the potential of WASM, since most of the graphics is done in OpenGL anyway.