6 ms·

Can we please just bring back removable batteries?

by Slackwise 10y ago

simplexion 10y ago
How would this resolve any issues?
- Slackwise 10y ago
  Well it would have likely solved the Note 7 recall, and any futures battery recalls. It would also allow a user to remove an unsafe battery so that it's not in use while waiting for a replacement.
  - johncolanduoni 10y ago
    Didn't the phones with replacement batteries also catch fire?
  - simplexion 10y ago
    Less than .01% of the phones caught fire. The recall is crazy.
    - nradov 10y ago
      If the Note 7 hadn't been recalled then eventually many more would have probably caught fire. We'll never know what the cumulative failure rate would have been if the devices had been left in the field for years. Eventually people would have been killed.
    - greglindahl 10y ago
      The fraction of phones that caught on fire was similar to the fraction of hoverboards that caught on fire. Normal products with similar batteries have a much lower failure rate.
    - MBCook 10y ago
      Do you have a source for that number?
    - jschwartzi 10y ago
      When you decide whether a risk is unacceptable, there are two parts to consider: the likelihood of the event, and the potential worst-case scenario should the event come to pass. .01% is a very low likelihood, but the worst case scenario that one of these phones maims the user is an extremely bad outcome. In this framework the recall is the most sensible thing to do.
    - wlesieutre 10y ago
      .10% within a few weeks of release. Without a recall, that number keeps on climbing and nobody has any idea where it stops. 1% of phones exploded? 10%? You obviously can't unexplode the ones that exploded already, but a recall is about the ones that haven't exploded yet.
  - vitus 10y ago
    I thought the problem with the note 7 was with the power controller, and not the batteries -- didn't phones continue catching fire after the first recall?
    - greglindahl 10y ago
      There is still no root cause for the Note 7 issue, apparently.
- ScottBurson 10y ago
  It would have saved Samsung billions of dollars if they could have just replaced the batteries and not had to buy back 2.5M phones.
  - CamperBob2 10y ago
    No, it would ultimately have caused more fires with no way to blame them on anyone in particular. If we're going to treat batteries as safety-critical components, then it's counterproductive to encourage end users to replace them with the cheapest ones they can find. Mobile phones with replaceable batteries aren't coming back, and good riddance.
    - Vendan 10y ago
      So your solution is to say "no, only large companies are allowed to pick batteries". Well, the Note 7 seems to show how good an idea that is. Plenty of devices have replaceable batteries without them exploding, and if anything, a replaceable battery would let you say "hey, this battery is getting old, let's replace it" rather then continuing to use a device with an old, possibly failing battery.
      - CamperBob2 10y ago
        Well, the Note 7 seems to show how good an idea that is. Yes, as a matter of fact, that's exactly what the Note 7 debacle demonstrated. There was a quality problem that could cause fires. There was a single party who could be expected to take responsibility. Finally, there was a coordinated worldwide recall. Problem solved, system working as intended. Sucks to be Samsung, of course, but the end result will be safer batteries for everyone. Plenty of devices have replaceable batteries without them exploding, and if anything, a replaceable battery would let you say "hey, this battery is getting old, let's replace it" rather then continuing to use a device with an old, possibly failing battery. Sorry, that's not going to happen. Get used to disappointment.
        Vendan 10y ago
manicdee 10y ago
That will not prevent batteries spontaneously combusting. Replaceable batteries will only address the pain of safety recalls and increase the risk of fires due to consumers choosing to buy cheaper off-brand batteries.
- Slackwise 10y ago
  You are correct on both accounts, but I still think it's an overall safety benefit in the case of a recall. Portable dongle batteries have the same potential problems, so it's shifting the danger from one location to another. My statement, though, is not entirely to address just safety, but also planned obsolescence, and consumer convenience. I've always carried a spare battery since even my HTC WinMo "smartphone" days. Same with my PowerBook.
- nradov 10y ago
  Actually removable batteries should be less likely to spontaneously combust. Most battery failures seem to be caused by short circuits due to compression or flexing. Removable batteries are mechanically stronger because they have integral cases instead of just relying on the device casing for protection. Personally I would never buy a cell phone with a built in battery. I always have spare batteries for my phones and frequently swap them out. It sure beats being tied to a charger, or plugging an external battery to an awkward and fragile USB connector.
  - gruturo 10y ago
    You state absolutely valid facts, but removable batteries carry one huge additional risk: You can now go purchase a no-name cheap explosion-prone chinese one, which your phone manufacturer (barring recent incidents) most likely would have protected you from, with their QA. Granted, you can do that anyway today if you go to an unauthorized shop for a replacement, or even get it yourself via Amazon/Ebay & co., but the general availability of shitty batteries for retail purchase would increase the size of the problem by an order of magnitude.
    - kbart 10y ago
jplasmeier 10y ago
I would prefer water-resistance to removable batteries... (I don't think it's that simple, but given the choice, I would take the tight seal)
- matejn 10y ago
  The Samsung Galaxy XCover I used to own managed both water resistance and a removable battery.
nraynaud 10y ago
No, because of reliability. Either you have a connector or a spring neither is good for reliability
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  When was the last time you've heard of a phone that failed due to a broken battery connector? Phones are already designed as throwaway trash to be discarded in 18 months (and if you somehow keep it for longer, the software industry will happily make it almost unusable within the next 2 years). Reduced reliability of a battery connector isn't a meaningful topic, and it never was - not even in the old dumbphone days.
  - lvillani 10y ago
    My Galaxy Nexus would often shut down due to a loose battery connector. It was a widespread problem and the workaround was to fold paper or tinfoil at the bottom of the battery to push it against the connector.
  - rwmj 10y ago
    I've personally had two phones fail because of the battery connector. Anec-data for sure, but those spring clips are not robust at all.
Theodores 10y ago
Can we just go back to the 80's when you could chain smoke your way through duty free cigarettes whilst reading a highly flammable and freely provided newspaper, pissed, oh, and flying at 70000 feet, twice the speed of sound on Concorde? Check in was so much quicker then and nobody had exploding batteries.
brixon 10y ago
One of the reasons I am getting an LG V20.

Can we please just bring back removable batteries?

simplexion 10y ago

How would this resolve any issues?

Slackwise 10y ago
Well it would have likely solved the Note 7 recall, and any futures battery recalls. It would also allow a user to remove an unsafe battery so that it's not in use while waiting for a replacement.
- johncolanduoni 10y ago
  Didn't the phones with replacement batteries also catch fire?
- simplexion 10y ago
  Less than .01% of the phones caught fire. The recall is crazy.
  - nradov 10y ago
    If the Note 7 hadn't been recalled then eventually many more would have probably caught fire. We'll never know what the cumulative failure rate would have been if the devices had been left in the field for years. Eventually people would have been killed.
  - greglindahl 10y ago
    The fraction of phones that caught on fire was similar to the fraction of hoverboards that caught on fire. Normal products with similar batteries have a much lower failure rate.
  - MBCook 10y ago
    Do you have a source for that number?
  - jschwartzi 10y ago
    When you decide whether a risk is unacceptable, there are two parts to consider: the likelihood of the event, and the potential worst-case scenario should the event come to pass. .01% is a very low likelihood, but the worst case scenario that one of these phones maims the user is an extremely bad outcome. In this framework the recall is the most sensible thing to do.
  - wlesieutre 10y ago
    .10% within a few weeks of release. Without a recall, that number keeps on climbing and nobody has any idea where it stops. 1% of phones exploded? 10%? You obviously can't unexplode the ones that exploded already, but a recall is about the ones that haven't exploded yet.
- vitus 10y ago
  I thought the problem with the note 7 was with the power controller, and not the batteries -- didn't phones continue catching fire after the first recall?
  - greglindahl 10y ago
    There is still no root cause for the Note 7 issue, apparently.
ScottBurson 10y ago
It would have saved Samsung billions of dollars if they could have just replaced the batteries and not had to buy back 2.5M phones.
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  No, it would ultimately have caused more fires with no way to blame them on anyone in particular. If we're going to treat batteries as safety-critical components, then it's counterproductive to encourage end users to replace them with the cheapest ones they can find. Mobile phones with replaceable batteries aren't coming back, and good riddance.
  - Vendan 10y ago
    So your solution is to say "no, only large companies are allowed to pick batteries". Well, the Note 7 seems to show how good an idea that is. Plenty of devices have replaceable batteries without them exploding, and if anything, a replaceable battery would let you say "hey, this battery is getting old, let's replace it" rather then continuing to use a device with an old, possibly failing battery.
    - CamperBob2 10y ago
      Well, the Note 7 seems to show how good an idea that is. Yes, as a matter of fact, that's exactly what the Note 7 debacle demonstrated. There was a quality problem that could cause fires. There was a single party who could be expected to take responsibility. Finally, there was a coordinated worldwide recall. Problem solved, system working as intended. Sucks to be Samsung, of course, but the end result will be safer batteries for everyone. Plenty of devices have replaceable batteries without them exploding, and if anything, a replaceable battery would let you say "hey, this battery is getting old, let's replace it" rather then continuing to use a device with an old, possibly failing battery. Sorry, that's not going to happen. Get used to disappointment.
      - Vendan 10y ago

manicdee 10y ago

That will not prevent batteries spontaneously combusting. Replaceable batteries will only address the pain of safety recalls and increase the risk of fires due to consumers choosing to buy cheaper off-brand batteries.

Slackwise 10y ago
You are correct on both accounts, but I still think it's an overall safety benefit in the case of a recall. Portable dongle batteries have the same potential problems, so it's shifting the danger from one location to another. My statement, though, is not entirely to address just safety, but also planned obsolescence, and consumer convenience. I've always carried a spare battery since even my HTC WinMo "smartphone" days. Same with my PowerBook.
nradov 10y ago
Actually removable batteries should be less likely to spontaneously combust. Most battery failures seem to be caused by short circuits due to compression or flexing. Removable batteries are mechanically stronger because they have integral cases instead of just relying on the device casing for protection. Personally I would never buy a cell phone with a built in battery. I always have spare batteries for my phones and frequently swap them out. It sure beats being tied to a charger, or plugging an external battery to an awkward and fragile USB connector.
- gruturo 10y ago
  You state absolutely valid facts, but removable batteries carry one huge additional risk: You can now go purchase a no-name cheap explosion-prone chinese one, which your phone manufacturer (barring recent incidents) most likely would have protected you from, with their QA. Granted, you can do that anyway today if you go to an unauthorized shop for a replacement, or even get it yourself via Amazon/Ebay & co., but the general availability of shitty batteries for retail purchase would increase the size of the problem by an order of magnitude.
  - kbart 10y ago

jplasmeier 10y ago

I would prefer water-resistance to removable batteries... (I don't think it's that simple, but given the choice, I would take the tight seal)

matejn 10y ago
The Samsung Galaxy XCover I used to own managed both water resistance and a removable battery.

nraynaud 10y ago

No, because of reliability. Either you have a connector or a spring neither is good for reliability

TeMPOraL 10y ago
When was the last time you've heard of a phone that failed due to a broken battery connector? Phones are already designed as throwaway trash to be discarded in 18 months (and if you somehow keep it for longer, the software industry will happily make it almost unusable within the next 2 years). Reduced reliability of a battery connector isn't a meaningful topic, and it never was - not even in the old dumbphone days.
- lvillani 10y ago
  My Galaxy Nexus would often shut down due to a loose battery connector. It was a widespread problem and the workaround was to fold paper or tinfoil at the bottom of the battery to push it against the connector.
- rwmj 10y ago
  I've personally had two phones fail because of the battery connector. Anec-data for sure, but those spring clips are not robust at all.

Theodores 10y ago

Can we just go back to the 80's when you could chain smoke your way through duty free cigarettes whilst reading a highly flammable and freely provided newspaper, pissed, oh, and flying at 70000 feet, twice the speed of sound on Concorde? Check in was so much quicker then and nobody had exploding batteries.

brixon 10y ago

One of the reasons I am getting an LG V20.