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I would understand it if they kicked the customers out of their webstores for physical products. Or if they forbade reselling via license, and had a contractual

I would understand it if they kicked the customers out of their webstores for physical products. Or if they forbade reselling via license, and had a contractual penalty (where permissible by law). But closing your email accounts? Google (the company that sells phones) and Google (the company that hosts all your digital life) are only incedentally the same entity. It's like your power company also sells toasters, and you resell a toaster on ebay, which they dont like, and then they cut your electricity in retalliation. It's like if Alphabet bought a company running tollways, and they banned you from using their streets.

sp332 10y ago
It mentions that most people made up brand-new accounts to run the deal from. If Google's initial investigation showed only brand-new accounts, it might explain their move to delete the accounts entirely. They reversed the decision when they realized real accounts were getting caught up as well.
- Ph0X 10y ago
  Yeah, let's be honest, if you're running a scheme like this, you probably have a hunch that it may not be the most legal thing ever... why the hell would you use your real account with all your information instead of making a new dummy account? They probably assumed it was a bunch of fake account and deleted them all in one big swoop, but once they realized a few of them were real, they restored them... Just the media blowing things out of proportion, and for some reason everyone's defending these people who were doing something clearly very shady and wrong. I do agree though that the thought of losing access to all your data is scary, and people should definitely do takeout and be more conscious about it, but in this case specifically, it was hardly Google's fault. Google is at the end of the day a service, and if you go on their lawn and start shitting all over it, what do you expect will happen?
  - kuschku 10y ago
    > Google is at the end of the day a service, and if you go on their lawn and start shitting all over it, what do you expect will happen? Or, rather, Google is a utility. At least Gmail is by now. That has very interesting implications.
- dahdum 10y ago
  They reversed because they got a ton of bad press for it. They've been banning accounts with no recourse for years now, and will continue to do so until people speak out loudly enough against it. Maybe then at least they could allow those banned to export their data.
mxuribe 10y ago
I agree with your statements. ...However, to me it feels like its not so much that google killed off access to email as if it was a separate product...Rather, the physical device that google sells (and its associated platform a la Play store) are dependent on an identity mechanism...And the identity mechanism was what google was trying to shut down...It so happens of course that the identity mechanism that google chose to use (and has chosen to use for their android-based phones) is one's gmail address. THIS begs the question, if there was no such dependency (like one's gmail address), could google have exerted such power in shutting down these people's access? I'll admit I've traditionally been a fan of android phones...but this just struck me as way too much power, and scary. Yeah, i might still need a semi-"throw away" google/gmail account to use my phone, etc. But as far as one of my "identity mechanisms", I'm starting to look at alternatives such as fastmail.com (which I just started a trial account with) for my main email. If anyone can suggest other alternatives - for quality (non-free) mail providers beyond just fastmail - I'm all ears.
- Senji 10y ago
  The "identity mechanism" is actually your "Google account", gmail and the other google accounts used to be separate. But some one had the bright idea to force G+ on everyone by forcing them to merge all accounts, thus drawing audience from gmail and youtube. A really swell move. If google wanted to they could provide oauth like identity only service.
  - mxuribe 10y ago
    Yep, agreed; i could not have said this better myself! +1
  - Ph0X 10y ago
    Google isn't just Gmail and Youtube anymore though. Maybe it was 5-10 years ago, but now there are dozens of products. Music, Calendar, Drive, Docs, Android. All of those require an account. You're basically implying that they should have a separate account for every one of their services, which makes absolutely no sense... Then, back when there are just two things, merging them into one was maybe not so good of a decision, but at this point, having a single account makes much more sense from a user experience point of view.
doubt_me 10y ago
Also even if you have more than enough sufficient information to get a lost Gmail back. Send them your state issued drivers license and ID and birth certificate. It is still not enough to get my account back. What do I honestly do in a situation like that? (After 2 years of failed recovery attempts, hunting down google employees on social media and their work or personal emails) I got one single Google employee to respond to a help thread I posted on the Gmail help forums. He responded with a question that was already answered in the original post. And it took me 6 months to get there.
- btown 10y ago
  If people don't see this, might as well do an Ask HN with more context and contact information. Likely that many Googlers read this.
  - doubt_me 10y ago
    I tried everything x100 on steroids over the last 2 years. I was strictly ignored and the only thing left for me to do is to go walk in to the Gmail teams office and sit down on a computer and fix it myself.
    - lemmings19 10y ago
      I doubt you.
    - ryanlol 10y ago
      You're certainly not the only one. Even as a paying customer it's impossible to get in touch with anyone if you get locked out.
      - dawnerd 10y ago
        Not even if you get locked out. I tried asking them why my paid gsuite account couldn't be used like a normal google account and all they could do was copy+paste some response about how great paying for google was and that I wasn't paying for anything else. Alphabet REALLY needs to work on their customer service, especially for paying customers. I don't trust having email on a domain I don't control (you can't move a gmail account to another provider like you can a phone number). Yet if you want to take advantage of all the features of google home/music/youtube you have to use a normal gmail account.
SilasX 10y ago
>It's like your power company also sells toasters, and you resell a toaster on ebay, which they dont like, and then they cut your electricity in retalliation. Isn't that how The Phone Company used to work?
- mhurron 10y ago
  And just like the phone company, Google doesn't have to care.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  And in a lot of places. Until governments broke them down. Looks to me that Google has too many monopolies under the same administration.
Applejinx 10y ago
Could be worse. Google are really tight with the Obama White House. If they're serious enough about maintaining relations with a Trump Whiter House, you might get a digital death sentence for calling a certain man a 'tiny-fingered, cheeto-faced, ferret-wearing sh#tgibbon' :) Of course, that name-calling person was a Scot, but Google is everywhere and everything…
iamnothere 10y ago
> It's like if Alphabet bought a company running tollways, and they banned you from using their streets. If it's their road, what's the problem? It's not like the government is banning you from the roads. (Joking, in case it isn't obvious.)
serge2k 10y ago
This is why their should be regulation. Email should be on par with telephone service.

sp332 10y ago

It mentions that most people made up brand-new accounts to run the deal from. If Google's initial investigation showed only brand-new accounts, it might explain their move to delete the accounts entirely. They reversed the decision when they realized real accounts were getting caught up as well.

Ph0X 10y ago
Yeah, let's be honest, if you're running a scheme like this, you probably have a hunch that it may not be the most legal thing ever... why the hell would you use your real account with all your information instead of making a new dummy account? They probably assumed it was a bunch of fake account and deleted them all in one big swoop, but once they realized a few of them were real, they restored them... Just the media blowing things out of proportion, and for some reason everyone's defending these people who were doing something clearly very shady and wrong. I do agree though that the thought of losing access to all your data is scary, and people should definitely do takeout and be more conscious about it, but in this case specifically, it was hardly Google's fault. Google is at the end of the day a service, and if you go on their lawn and start shitting all over it, what do you expect will happen?
- kuschku 10y ago
  > Google is at the end of the day a service, and if you go on their lawn and start shitting all over it, what do you expect will happen? Or, rather, Google is a utility. At least Gmail is by now. That has very interesting implications.
dahdum 10y ago
They reversed because they got a ton of bad press for it. They've been banning accounts with no recourse for years now, and will continue to do so until people speak out loudly enough against it. Maybe then at least they could allow those banned to export their data.

mxuribe 10y ago

I agree with your statements. ...However, to me it feels like its not so much that google killed off access to email as if it was a separate product...Rather, the physical device that google sells (and its associated platform a la Play store) are dependent on an identity mechanism...And the identity mechanism was what google was trying to shut down...It so happens of course that the identity mechanism that google chose to use (and has chosen to use for their android-based phones) is one's gmail address. THIS begs the question, if there was no such dependency (like one's gmail address), could google have exerted such power in shutting down these people's access? I'll admit I've traditionally been a fan of android phones...but this just struck me as way too much power, and scary. Yeah, i might still need a semi-"throw away" google/gmail account to use my phone, etc. But as far as one of my "identity mechanisms", I'm starting to look at alternatives such as fastmail.com (which I just started a trial account with) for my main email. If anyone can suggest other alternatives - for quality (non-free) mail providers beyond just fastmail - I'm all ears.

Senji 10y ago
The "identity mechanism" is actually your "Google account", gmail and the other google accounts used to be separate. But some one had the bright idea to force G+ on everyone by forcing them to merge all accounts, thus drawing audience from gmail and youtube. A really swell move. If google wanted to they could provide oauth like identity only service.
- mxuribe 10y ago
  Yep, agreed; i could not have said this better myself! +1
- Ph0X 10y ago
  Google isn't just Gmail and Youtube anymore though. Maybe it was 5-10 years ago, but now there are dozens of products. Music, Calendar, Drive, Docs, Android. All of those require an account. You're basically implying that they should have a separate account for every one of their services, which makes absolutely no sense... Then, back when there are just two things, merging them into one was maybe not so good of a decision, but at this point, having a single account makes much more sense from a user experience point of view.

doubt_me 10y ago

Also even if you have more than enough sufficient information to get a lost Gmail back. Send them your state issued drivers license and ID and birth certificate. It is still not enough to get my account back. What do I honestly do in a situation like that? (After 2 years of failed recovery attempts, hunting down google employees on social media and their work or personal emails) I got one single Google employee to respond to a help thread I posted on the Gmail help forums. He responded with a question that was already answered in the original post. And it took me 6 months to get there.

btown 10y ago
If people don't see this, might as well do an Ask HN with more context and contact information. Likely that many Googlers read this.
- doubt_me 10y ago
  I tried everything x100 on steroids over the last 2 years. I was strictly ignored and the only thing left for me to do is to go walk in to the Gmail teams office and sit down on a computer and fix it myself.
  - lemmings19 10y ago
    I doubt you.
  - ryanlol 10y ago
    You're certainly not the only one. Even as a paying customer it's impossible to get in touch with anyone if you get locked out.
    - dawnerd 10y ago
      Not even if you get locked out. I tried asking them why my paid gsuite account couldn't be used like a normal google account and all they could do was copy+paste some response about how great paying for google was and that I wasn't paying for anything else. Alphabet REALLY needs to work on their customer service, especially for paying customers. I don't trust having email on a domain I don't control (you can't move a gmail account to another provider like you can a phone number). Yet if you want to take advantage of all the features of google home/music/youtube you have to use a normal gmail account.

SilasX 10y ago

>It's like your power company also sells toasters, and you resell a toaster on ebay, which they dont like, and then they cut your electricity in retalliation. Isn't that how The Phone Company used to work?

mhurron 10y ago
And just like the phone company, Google doesn't have to care.
marcosdumay 10y ago
And in a lot of places. Until governments broke them down. Looks to me that Google has too many monopolies under the same administration.

Applejinx 10y ago

Could be worse. Google are really tight with the Obama White House. If they're serious enough about maintaining relations with a Trump Whiter House, you might get a digital death sentence for calling a certain man a 'tiny-fingered, cheeto-faced, ferret-wearing sh#tgibbon' :) Of course, that name-calling person was a Scot, but Google is everywhere and everything…

iamnothere 10y ago

> It's like if Alphabet bought a company running tollways, and they banned you from using their streets. If it's their road, what's the problem? It's not like the government is banning you from the roads. (Joking, in case it isn't obvious.)

serge2k 10y ago

This is why their should be regulation. Email should be on par with telephone service.