8 ms·

Yes, great. But if you are not able to get news coverage about your problem, then you are out of luck? Yeah, sorry, Google. I once trusted you, but now I am mi

Yes, great. But if you are not able to get news coverage about your problem, then you are out of luck? Yeah, sorry, Google. I once trusted you, but now I am migrating away from everything Google (except search).

johnnyfaehell 10y ago
So you stop using everything but the thing they care about?
- mcintyre1994 10y ago
  Presumably it's more moving away from everything that stores data they care about. I don't care if I lose my search history, that'd be annoying because Google would get dumber, but ultimately whatever. Losing emails or photo backups or Drive though, is stuff I care about.
- chrisper 10y ago
  Yes, because if they close my account I can still use google search. My goal is not so much about harming them by avoiding them, but rather to not be dependent on them.
- massysett 10y ago
  They certainly care about having gigabytes of mail that they can scan for patterns and use to target ads.
rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
Sadly, yes. It's like calling a congressional representative and not having donated enough money to their campaign for your words to be worth their time, yet it's somehow even less fair and accountable. Also, DuckDuckGo?
- chrisper 10y ago
  I haven't used DuckDuckGo in years. Has it improved?
  - josh64 10y ago
    Yeah surprisingly a lot in the last year.
  - oldmanhorton 10y ago
    I find that it still falls down with a lot of programming questions, but in those cases I can always punt out to google. Aside from that, I think it works plenty well.
    - marcosdumay 10y ago
      It's not good with loosely formulated queries. But if you have a good selection of words to use, it's better than Google.
  - mlok 10y ago
    It happens to me 5% of the time : if the results are not what you expect, you can still ask DuckDuckGo to use google, just add !g to your search (or !gm for Google Maps, or !yc for Hacker News etc.) So userful! More here : https://duckduckgo.com/bang https://duckduckgo.com/bang
    - clappski 10y ago
      That's awesome, there's even ones for documentation (!cpp)
    - mrighele 10y ago
      Yes. This makes ddg useful as a default search engine even if you decide that you always want to use Google Search, because that you can use all the other bangs. Being able to search "on the fly" wikipedia, youtube, google maps etc. is very valuable
  - ambivalence 10y ago
- jfaat 10y ago
  Is anyone still using StartPage? Haven't seen it mentioned but it's been a great alternative for me. I use DDG on my iphone since safari won't let you set StartPage as the default.
nilved 10y ago
Use DuckDuckGo(og)
- justinv 10y ago
  Yes! DuckDuckGo is great. You can always use !g interobang if you want to search google
  - vlunkr 10y ago
    I've set DDG as my default a couple of times, and I find that I end up `!g`ing every search eventually. Maybe it's time to try again though.
    - bb101 10y ago
      Me too! I use !g so much that I end up inadvertently typing it when searching on google.com. The day of reckoning is near - use DDG as intended or just switch back to using Google as the default search.
      - orbitingpluto 10y ago
        But you're using it as intended. I'd much rather type "!gi blah" or "!gn blah" than move my hands to the mouse/trackpad to click on the Google Images or News link.
        qb45 10y ago
        See Firefox keyword bookmarks.
        orbitingpluto 10y ago
        I use bookmark keywords to get access to a cluster or folder of bookmarks instead of mousing. Also not interested in making 9000 bookmarks to reproduce bang functionality: https://duckduckgo.com/bang https://duckduckgo.com/bang Plus you still have to type "bookmark" <wait> "search"
rb808 10y ago
I started using Bing. My main problem isn't privacy or bad news, its one company dominating search - hopefully this will help out the competition. + you get gift cards :)
vvanders 10y ago
Yep, I'm going to be migrating my email off of gmail soon as well. #1 rule when you get as large as Google is not to burn your users trust. This was about a big of a screw-up as you could do there. You should keep your different services separate and isolated and only ban in the areas of business where it impacts things negatively.
- bradleyjg 10y ago
  Why does Google care about the trust of scammers? Some customers are not worth the effort. This time it was a mass phone scalping scheme, next time it might be a fraudulent click scheme. Google is better off if people like that never use one of their products again. It's as if some person kicked out of a store for shoplifting swore they'd never shop there ever again. Good!
  - waterphone 10y ago
    Because they falsely accuse people of things, often—especially with AdSense—and that's it, you have zero recourse, your account is permanently dead. There are a ton of people who have been accused of invalid click fraud on AdSense and got banned, but who never clicked their own ads. The common Google and Google fanboy reply is to dismiss those claims and say people are lying, but I can tell you from personal experience that while maybe some are, not all are.
    - bradleyjg 10y ago
      The answer is to work on the accuracy of the process, not to throw up their hands and stop trying to ban scammers. For this story in particular did anyone come forward to say that they had been banned that didn't participate in the scalping scam? There's a culture of impunity out there on the internet were people think they can cheat the system and nothing will ever come it (think manufactured spending for example). Well, sometimes something does come of it. Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.
      - mahyarm 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
acchan 10y ago
Google Search is one of Google's easiest products to switch away from. DuckDuckGo, Bing, whatever. They all do the job.
- powercf 10y ago
  Having been using ddg for the past year, I can say that its results are, unfortunately, noticeably worse than google's. For a lot of technical searches I end up resorting to google.
  - leadingthenet 10y ago
    Same, but it's 85% of the way there for most, everyday searches. For everything else, there's '!g'.
kels 10y ago
The fact that it has to be a covered by news really sucks. I ran a website that got our AdSense account shut down for what Google claimed was invalid clicks. I never clicked on our ads and we made little money from AdSense (we had other ad networks). Since my personal Gmail account was used as a backup email my personal account's AdSense account was also banned. They won't reinstate either account or give any more details. I don't use any Google Cloud services because I'm afraid that all of my accounts would get shut down for any reason and I would lose all of that data.
- waterphone 10y ago
  Yep, same has happened to me. Right before I was going to get my first payout of $100 or so, I got my AdSense account killed for invalid click activity. I never intentionally clicked, and the one time I accidentally did I reported it to them (which is what they said to do in the event of an accidental click). I turned over information, offered them server logs, etc., but never got anything more than stock replies that my request for reconsideration was denied and they wouldn't tell me anything more detailed. That happened a number of years ago and I haven't had them kill any of my other accounts for any reason, but it remains a concern and I certainly don't trust them.
  - x0x0 10y ago
    The hard math with ads is that Google keeps perhaps 30%, and from that they pay themselves and their costs. So there's not very much customer service you can offer on accounts that earn them $100 to $300/year. And there really is an enormous amount of real fraud.
    - ComputerGuru 10y ago
      That's not how it works, though. In business, you always factor in the cost of everyone, across the board. Ten minutes on the phone with technical support with any small software company is certainly worth more than the paltry $20 license you paid for. Just like hotels factor in the price and rate of stolen towels when pricing their rooms for everyone, Google, like any other business, makes money from some of te customers and loses money on others. We don't get to pick only the winning horses. Your grocery store doesn't ban you because you dropped a dozen eggs and then left with a 10¢ stick of gum - they price it in.
Ph0X 10y ago
So you're upset because they had a system that automatically banned people intentionally trying to break their system by running a massive illegal reselling scheme? These people were far from being innocent little bystanders who were hit collaterally. Yet, Google still pardoned them and restored their account EVEN when what they did was clearly not only against the ToS but actually probably against the law too. Yes, I agree it's a scary thought, I will automatically takeout my data and keep personal backups, but let's be honest here, those people in my opinion very well deserved what they got. You can't shit on someone's lawn and expect them to welcome you in their house.
- mi100hael 10y ago
  > illegal reselling scheme Citation needed. In the past decade, tech companies have managed to perpetuate the toxic notion that they can attach strings to your physical purchases. Despite their aspirations, legally you are free to do as you like with a physical product once you legally purchase it.
  - CrossWired 10y ago
    But they have the right to refuse the sell in the first place, which I would not have blamed them if they did, but swinging the ban hammer AFTER the fact is a bit harsh in this case.
- nitrogen 10y ago
  What ever happened to the first sale doctrine? > You can't shit on someone's lawn and expect them to welcome you in their house. Pets do exactly this, so if any company treats people like property, they shouldn't be surprised by those people's behavior in response.
mevile 10y ago
I migrated away from Google years ago after a similar incident. I use Fastmail for email. It's decent enough. I am happy to pay for services. I still use Google's search, calendar, browser and location services and Google Play for my android devices. I use YouTube frequently as well. I think the big problem are gmail and drive. By not using Gmail and Google Drive you will prevent something as bad as this from hurting you. My calendar isn't that important to me. If I lost my Google account I'd lose my apps and movies. It's not good, but it's not as big a deal as losing access to my email and personal files. My cloud storage has always been Dropbox, it's always been great. I backup my cloud storage (and disk storage) with Arq.
- josephb 10y ago
  Fastmail has calendar support now. Although I haven't yet migrated away from google for Cal.

johnnyfaehell 10y ago

So you stop using everything but the thing they care about?

mcintyre1994 10y ago
Presumably it's more moving away from everything that stores data they care about. I don't care if I lose my search history, that'd be annoying because Google would get dumber, but ultimately whatever. Losing emails or photo backups or Drive though, is stuff I care about.
chrisper 10y ago
Yes, because if they close my account I can still use google search. My goal is not so much about harming them by avoiding them, but rather to not be dependent on them.
massysett 10y ago
They certainly care about having gigabytes of mail that they can scan for patterns and use to target ads.

rm_-rf_slash 10y ago

Sadly, yes. It's like calling a congressional representative and not having donated enough money to their campaign for your words to be worth their time, yet it's somehow even less fair and accountable. Also, DuckDuckGo?

chrisper 10y ago
I haven't used DuckDuckGo in years. Has it improved?
- josh64 10y ago
  Yeah surprisingly a lot in the last year.
- oldmanhorton 10y ago
  I find that it still falls down with a lot of programming questions, but in those cases I can always punt out to google. Aside from that, I think it works plenty well.
  - marcosdumay 10y ago
    It's not good with loosely formulated queries. But if you have a good selection of words to use, it's better than Google.
- mlok 10y ago
  It happens to me 5% of the time : if the results are not what you expect, you can still ask DuckDuckGo to use google, just add !g to your search (or !gm for Google Maps, or !yc for Hacker News etc.) So userful! More here : https://duckduckgo.com/bang https://duckduckgo.com/bang
  - clappski 10y ago
    That's awesome, there's even ones for documentation (!cpp)
  - mrighele 10y ago
    Yes. This makes ddg useful as a default search engine even if you decide that you always want to use Google Search, because that you can use all the other bangs. Being able to search "on the fly" wikipedia, youtube, google maps etc. is very valuable
- ambivalence 10y ago
jfaat 10y ago
Is anyone still using StartPage? Haven't seen it mentioned but it's been a great alternative for me. I use DDG on my iphone since safari won't let you set StartPage as the default.

nilved 10y ago

Use DuckDuckGo(og)

justinv 10y ago
Yes! DuckDuckGo is great. You can always use !g interobang if you want to search google
- vlunkr 10y ago
  I've set DDG as my default a couple of times, and I find that I end up `!g`ing every search eventually. Maybe it's time to try again though.
  - bb101 10y ago
    Me too! I use !g so much that I end up inadvertently typing it when searching on google.com. The day of reckoning is near - use DDG as intended or just switch back to using Google as the default search.
    - orbitingpluto 10y ago
      But you're using it as intended. I'd much rather type "!gi blah" or "!gn blah" than move my hands to the mouse/trackpad to click on the Google Images or News link.
      - qb45 10y ago
        See Firefox keyword bookmarks.
        orbitingpluto 10y ago
        I use bookmark keywords to get access to a cluster or folder of bookmarks instead of mousing. Also not interested in making 9000 bookmarks to reproduce bang functionality: https://duckduckgo.com/bang https://duckduckgo.com/bang Plus you still have to type "bookmark" <wait> "search"

rb808 10y ago

I started using Bing. My main problem isn't privacy or bad news, its one company dominating search - hopefully this will help out the competition. + you get gift cards :)

vvanders 10y ago

Yep, I'm going to be migrating my email off of gmail soon as well. #1 rule when you get as large as Google is not to burn your users trust. This was about a big of a screw-up as you could do there. You should keep your different services separate and isolated and only ban in the areas of business where it impacts things negatively.

bradleyjg 10y ago
Why does Google care about the trust of scammers? Some customers are not worth the effort. This time it was a mass phone scalping scheme, next time it might be a fraudulent click scheme. Google is better off if people like that never use one of their products again. It's as if some person kicked out of a store for shoplifting swore they'd never shop there ever again. Good!
- waterphone 10y ago
  Because they falsely accuse people of things, often—especially with AdSense—and that's it, you have zero recourse, your account is permanently dead. There are a ton of people who have been accused of invalid click fraud on AdSense and got banned, but who never clicked their own ads. The common Google and Google fanboy reply is to dismiss those claims and say people are lying, but I can tell you from personal experience that while maybe some are, not all are.
  - bradleyjg 10y ago
    The answer is to work on the accuracy of the process, not to throw up their hands and stop trying to ban scammers. For this story in particular did anyone come forward to say that they had been banned that didn't participate in the scalping scam? There's a culture of impunity out there on the internet were people think they can cheat the system and nothing will ever come it (think manufactured spending for example). Well, sometimes something does come of it. Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.
    - mahyarm 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

acchan 10y ago

Google Search is one of Google's easiest products to switch away from. DuckDuckGo, Bing, whatever. They all do the job.

powercf 10y ago
Having been using ddg for the past year, I can say that its results are, unfortunately, noticeably worse than google's. For a lot of technical searches I end up resorting to google.
- leadingthenet 10y ago
  Same, but it's 85% of the way there for most, everyday searches. For everything else, there's '!g'.

kels 10y ago

The fact that it has to be a covered by news really sucks. I ran a website that got our AdSense account shut down for what Google claimed was invalid clicks. I never clicked on our ads and we made little money from AdSense (we had other ad networks). Since my personal Gmail account was used as a backup email my personal account's AdSense account was also banned. They won't reinstate either account or give any more details. I don't use any Google Cloud services because I'm afraid that all of my accounts would get shut down for any reason and I would lose all of that data.

waterphone 10y ago
Yep, same has happened to me. Right before I was going to get my first payout of $100 or so, I got my AdSense account killed for invalid click activity. I never intentionally clicked, and the one time I accidentally did I reported it to them (which is what they said to do in the event of an accidental click). I turned over information, offered them server logs, etc., but never got anything more than stock replies that my request for reconsideration was denied and they wouldn't tell me anything more detailed. That happened a number of years ago and I haven't had them kill any of my other accounts for any reason, but it remains a concern and I certainly don't trust them.
- x0x0 10y ago
  The hard math with ads is that Google keeps perhaps 30%, and from that they pay themselves and their costs. So there's not very much customer service you can offer on accounts that earn them $100 to $300/year. And there really is an enormous amount of real fraud.
  - ComputerGuru 10y ago
    That's not how it works, though. In business, you always factor in the cost of everyone, across the board. Ten minutes on the phone with technical support with any small software company is certainly worth more than the paltry $20 license you paid for. Just like hotels factor in the price and rate of stolen towels when pricing their rooms for everyone, Google, like any other business, makes money from some of te customers and loses money on others. We don't get to pick only the winning horses. Your grocery store doesn't ban you because you dropped a dozen eggs and then left with a 10¢ stick of gum - they price it in.

Ph0X 10y ago

So you're upset because they had a system that automatically banned people intentionally trying to break their system by running a massive illegal reselling scheme? These people were far from being innocent little bystanders who were hit collaterally. Yet, Google still pardoned them and restored their account EVEN when what they did was clearly not only against the ToS but actually probably against the law too. Yes, I agree it's a scary thought, I will automatically takeout my data and keep personal backups, but let's be honest here, those people in my opinion very well deserved what they got. You can't shit on someone's lawn and expect them to welcome you in their house.

mi100hael 10y ago
> illegal reselling scheme Citation needed. In the past decade, tech companies have managed to perpetuate the toxic notion that they can attach strings to your physical purchases. Despite their aspirations, legally you are free to do as you like with a physical product once you legally purchase it.
- CrossWired 10y ago
  But they have the right to refuse the sell in the first place, which I would not have blamed them if they did, but swinging the ban hammer AFTER the fact is a bit harsh in this case.
nitrogen 10y ago
What ever happened to the first sale doctrine? > You can't shit on someone's lawn and expect them to welcome you in their house. Pets do exactly this, so if any company treats people like property, they shouldn't be surprised by those people's behavior in response.

mevile 10y ago

I migrated away from Google years ago after a similar incident. I use Fastmail for email. It's decent enough. I am happy to pay for services. I still use Google's search, calendar, browser and location services and Google Play for my android devices. I use YouTube frequently as well. I think the big problem are gmail and drive. By not using Gmail and Google Drive you will prevent something as bad as this from hurting you. My calendar isn't that important to me. If I lost my Google account I'd lose my apps and movies. It's not good, but it's not as big a deal as losing access to my email and personal files. My cloud storage has always been Dropbox, it's always been great. I backup my cloud storage (and disk storage) with Arq.

josephb 10y ago
Fastmail has calendar support now. Although I haven't yet migrated away from google for Cal.