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> I knew it was rare for people to know manual transmissions, but why such a preference for automatic? I think this is twofold. First off, most drivers educati

> I knew it was rare for people to know manual transmissions, but why such a preference for automatic? I think this is twofold. First off, most drivers education doesn't teach a manual transmission anymore, nor is drivers education a requirement. While my parents learned on a simulator in school, I learned it from experience (and so happy I did) - my first car was a manual. But the second part of this is that there tends to be a very small number of cars that even offer a manual transmission: Generally small cars, pickup trucks, and "sporty" cars. I live in Norway now, and have a smallish 4-door sedan with a manual transmission: The same sort of car is difficult to find in the US. The masculinity still happens, but I think it is simply plays out differently. In a lot of areas, you are just as masculine in a pickup truck as a vehicle. Sidenote: I am with you with preferring a manual transmission. In fact, knowing how to drive one and understanding the gears helped me with an automatic once.

torrent-of-ions 10y ago
> nor is drivers education a requirement This is it really. Americans aren't very good at driving. In the UK we are taught that it's one of the most dangerous things you'll do in your life, which it is. In America it's just like learning to walk. You have to do it and it doesn't matter how you learn. Check out the road safety stats. USA is pretty much an outlier amongst first world countries by most metrics.
- crispyambulance 10y ago
  The key figure, I think, is number of fatalities per billion vehicle Kilometers. For the USA that is 7.1. Unfortunately, Americans drive A LOT MORE than most other countries, so raw annual fatality count is very high (~34K). By comparison UK has 3.6 fatalities/billion KM and fatality count of 1.8K. Population ratio is ~6:1 US:UK. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...) There are other countries where fatalities are much higher.
  - torrent-of-ions 10y ago
    It seems that the fatalities per billion vehicle kilometres will be skewed simply by the average trip length being longer in the US. Fatalities per number of trips is probably a better metric since longer trips tend to use safer roads like motorways. It's just not possible to rack up that many "safe" miles somewhere like the UK, while the number of more high risk miles, ie. towns and country roads, is probably more similar. As suspected, that metric is the one the US does the best on in the article linked. The best metric is probably fatalities per capita. It's not fair to take into account only the number vehicles because the whole population is at risk when it comes to cars. And it's not fair to take into account number of miles travelled due to the difference in trip lengths.
    - hx87 10y ago
      > It seems that the fatalities per billion vehicle kilometres will be skewed simply by the average trip length being longer in the US. Trip length figures into the denominator (deaths/billion kilometers), so everything else being the same, longer trip lengths won't skew the statistic.
      - Dylan16807 10y ago
        Not that the statistic will be skewed with respect to itself. But that it will be skewed against what really matters. It might be the wrong decision to factor out distance.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- strictnein 10y ago
  > nor is drivers education a requirement Not sure what state they're referring to, but it's a requirement in every place I know of. The general process when you're 15-16 typically includes: - A number of Driver's ed classes that typically end with behind the wheel training - Learners permit granted that only allows you to drive with an adult (21+) in the car. - Drive without incident for a certain period of time - Pass a written test - Pass a full road course - Full license granted
  - pc86 10y ago
    I went to HS in rural PA in 00-04 and the only "drivers ed" we got was one class a week for a month or two where we just went over the DMV handbook. No practical training or testing, it was expected that your parents taught you how to actually drive.
  - Broken_Hippo 10y ago
    I'm originally from Indiana. All that is actually required is that you hold a learner's permit for a set time and pass the driving and written test. To actually learn to drive, you just gotta have an adult in the car. In theory, this is to teach you how to drive. Outside of that, there are a few restrictions on the license after you start driving, mostly on passengers from what I can remember. Some folks do take drivers ed, which is usually offered at the high school after school or during the summer. When folks do this, they can get their learners permit at a younger age. It is quite common in the rural areas for kids to learn to drive tractors when they are 13/14 or younger.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
>nor is drivers education a requirement This was probably the case when you learned to drive (it was when I did) but many (most?) US States are starting to crack down on this and require formal driver's ed in some cases. There's also a lot more restrictions on young drivers than there was when I was a young driver. For the non-Americans, in the US each State licenses their drivers and they all have different requirements.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  It has been more than 20 years since I learned to drive and admittedly I'm only really familiar with Indiana laws, save for the last 3-4 years. And you are right, there are some vast improvements in the area, some a little ill-thought out. Most of these I've seen were increases in driving age, Requiring a longer permit holding time, more indepth written tests, and restrictions on either new license holders or teenage license holders. That said, I wasn't aware of cases where drivers ed was a requirement at all. Everywhere else it doesn't matter so long as one can pass the both the written and driving test.
kjetijor 10y ago
Norway is (probably) still a manual transmission holdout, potentially in part because you'll most likely end up being taught driving a manual as there's restrictions attached to your license. If you do your practical on an automatic, you're restricted to automatic, if you do it on a manual you get to drive both manual/automatic. Anecdotally - early automatic transmissions weren't all that great on the windy mountain roads. My dad had two primary complaints (after having had an automatic rental). Tricking the car into downshifting to maintain speed or accelerate on steep ascents, and passing people on steep ascents, usually involved slamming on the brakes to trick the car into downshifting. (This were in the mid-90ies). My dad held onto the manual transmission until probably 2012-2013.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  The restriction bit is absolutely correct. I'd guess that a good number of folks that learn on an automatic or take the tests in an automatic do so by choice or physical need, however. Folks have to take courses from a driving school, which supplies the car for both the training and the actual test. I completely understand why it is a manual transmission holdout. Your anecdote confirms the attitude from my spouse (the native Norwegian) and others. A manual is just safer, both because of the mountains and the snow.

torrent-of-ions 10y ago

> nor is drivers education a requirement This is it really. Americans aren't very good at driving. In the UK we are taught that it's one of the most dangerous things you'll do in your life, which it is. In America it's just like learning to walk. You have to do it and it doesn't matter how you learn. Check out the road safety stats. USA is pretty much an outlier amongst first world countries by most metrics.

crispyambulance 10y ago
The key figure, I think, is number of fatalities per billion vehicle Kilometers. For the USA that is 7.1. Unfortunately, Americans drive A LOT MORE than most other countries, so raw annual fatality count is very high (~34K). By comparison UK has 3.6 fatalities/billion KM and fatality count of 1.8K. Population ratio is ~6:1 US:UK. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...) There are other countries where fatalities are much higher.
- torrent-of-ions 10y ago
  It seems that the fatalities per billion vehicle kilometres will be skewed simply by the average trip length being longer in the US. Fatalities per number of trips is probably a better metric since longer trips tend to use safer roads like motorways. It's just not possible to rack up that many "safe" miles somewhere like the UK, while the number of more high risk miles, ie. towns and country roads, is probably more similar. As suspected, that metric is the one the US does the best on in the article linked. The best metric is probably fatalities per capita. It's not fair to take into account only the number vehicles because the whole population is at risk when it comes to cars. And it's not fair to take into account number of miles travelled due to the difference in trip lengths.
  - hx87 10y ago
    > It seems that the fatalities per billion vehicle kilometres will be skewed simply by the average trip length being longer in the US. Trip length figures into the denominator (deaths/billion kilometers), so everything else being the same, longer trip lengths won't skew the statistic.
    - Dylan16807 10y ago
      Not that the statistic will be skewed with respect to itself. But that it will be skewed against what really matters. It might be the wrong decision to factor out distance.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
strictnein 10y ago
> nor is drivers education a requirement Not sure what state they're referring to, but it's a requirement in every place I know of. The general process when you're 15-16 typically includes: - A number of Driver's ed classes that typically end with behind the wheel training - Learners permit granted that only allows you to drive with an adult (21+) in the car. - Drive without incident for a certain period of time - Pass a written test - Pass a full road course - Full license granted
- pc86 10y ago
  I went to HS in rural PA in 00-04 and the only "drivers ed" we got was one class a week for a month or two where we just went over the DMV handbook. No practical training or testing, it was expected that your parents taught you how to actually drive.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  I'm originally from Indiana. All that is actually required is that you hold a learner's permit for a set time and pass the driving and written test. To actually learn to drive, you just gotta have an adult in the car. In theory, this is to teach you how to drive. Outside of that, there are a few restrictions on the license after you start driving, mostly on passengers from what I can remember. Some folks do take drivers ed, which is usually offered at the high school after school or during the summer. When folks do this, they can get their learners permit at a younger age. It is quite common in the rural areas for kids to learn to drive tractors when they are 13/14 or younger.

nommm-nommm 10y ago

>nor is drivers education a requirement This was probably the case when you learned to drive (it was when I did) but many (most?) US States are starting to crack down on this and require formal driver's ed in some cases. There's also a lot more restrictions on young drivers than there was when I was a young driver. For the non-Americans, in the US each State licenses their drivers and they all have different requirements.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago
It has been more than 20 years since I learned to drive and admittedly I'm only really familiar with Indiana laws, save for the last 3-4 years. And you are right, there are some vast improvements in the area, some a little ill-thought out. Most of these I've seen were increases in driving age, Requiring a longer permit holding time, more indepth written tests, and restrictions on either new license holders or teenage license holders. That said, I wasn't aware of cases where drivers ed was a requirement at all. Everywhere else it doesn't matter so long as one can pass the both the written and driving test.

kjetijor 10y ago

Norway is (probably) still a manual transmission holdout, potentially in part because you'll most likely end up being taught driving a manual as there's restrictions attached to your license. If you do your practical on an automatic, you're restricted to automatic, if you do it on a manual you get to drive both manual/automatic. Anecdotally - early automatic transmissions weren't all that great on the windy mountain roads. My dad had two primary complaints (after having had an automatic rental). Tricking the car into downshifting to maintain speed or accelerate on steep ascents, and passing people on steep ascents, usually involved slamming on the brakes to trick the car into downshifting. (This were in the mid-90ies). My dad held onto the manual transmission until probably 2012-2013.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago
The restriction bit is absolutely correct. I'd guess that a good number of folks that learn on an automatic or take the tests in an automatic do so by choice or physical need, however. Folks have to take courses from a driving school, which supplies the car for both the training and the actual test. I completely understand why it is a manual transmission holdout. Your anecdote confirms the attitude from my spouse (the native Norwegian) and others. A manual is just safer, both because of the mountains and the snow.