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I've always wondered why the karma of the upvoter isn't weighed into the equation. If someone like tptacek (with 259K karma) votes my comment up, I think that'

I've always wondered why the karma of the upvoter isn't weighed into the equation. If someone like tptacek (with 259K karma) votes my comment up, I think that's a lot more relevant than someone with 300 karma.

vit05 10y ago
I remember something similar to this on digg. The results wasn't great. "Power users"
pbhjpbhj 10y ago
I'd like to have the comments delivered with metadata and have a small JavaScript to sort them. A few defaults (hot, new, etc.) and chance to try popular sort algos. Then chance to weight by popularity of the user, upvotes/downvotes, or location, or whatever is possible with the metadata.
DanBC 10y ago
I have 38,000 karma. I think it's a terrible idea for my karma value to make my upvotes weigh more.
- CPLX 10y ago
  I have 6,000 karma. I agree with one sixth of your comment.
sparky_z 10y ago
In the aggregate, karma is a measure of volume, not of quality. Members with lots of karma are often the ones who spend all of their free time writing comments and submitting links, focusing on quick, easy wins. There's no reason to think they're the ones with the most discerning taste. Using average karma per comment would be an improvement, but it still favors people who are on the site constantly (so they can be the first to make the obvious comment that everybody upvotes) and frequent the most popular (and lowest effort) subreddits. Another problem: the last thing reddit needs is more incentive for users to improve their personal karma score. Karma is useful for readers, but that benefit is balanced against the incentives it provides for writers to optimize their karma score above all other considerations. I think HN achieves this balance better than reddit does by deemphasizing personal karma scores in various ways, and this is reflected in the user experience. It's bad enough when karma's just a driver of personal gamification. If it actually provided users with social clout and ability to frame the conversation, well, then it would be something with real world value. You wouldn't need click farms to manufacture viral content, just a few well-placed accounts with high scores. High-karma upvotes as a service. As a side-gig for a careful power user, it would be nigh-undetectable. Think of the difference between HN and reddit, then multiply it 10-fold. I think that's what you would end up with.
- stephengillie 10y ago
  Upvotes-as-a-service? That's the echo chamber eating its own tail.
  - sparky_z 10y ago
    Not sure what you mean.
JoshTriplett 10y ago
I think that would have a stronger tendency to create an echo chamber. If anything, I'd suggest the reverse: it should count for more to have more votes from a less tightly coupled portion of the graph. As in, cluster the set of users based on various types of interactions, and include a multiplicative factor in scoring based on the distinctness of the users upvoting something. That way, you can get a modest score by appealing strongly to a small subset of users, but a massive score only by appealing to many distinct sets of users.
- ThrustVectoring 10y ago
  It'd also automatically damp the effects of voting rings.

vit05 10y ago

I remember something similar to this on digg. The results wasn't great. "Power users"

pbhjpbhj 10y ago

I'd like to have the comments delivered with metadata and have a small JavaScript to sort them. A few defaults (hot, new, etc.) and chance to try popular sort algos. Then chance to weight by popularity of the user, upvotes/downvotes, or location, or whatever is possible with the metadata.

DanBC 10y ago

I have 38,000 karma. I think it's a terrible idea for my karma value to make my upvotes weigh more.

CPLX 10y ago
I have 6,000 karma. I agree with one sixth of your comment.

sparky_z 10y ago

In the aggregate, karma is a measure of volume, not of quality. Members with lots of karma are often the ones who spend all of their free time writing comments and submitting links, focusing on quick, easy wins. There's no reason to think they're the ones with the most discerning taste. Using average karma per comment would be an improvement, but it still favors people who are on the site constantly (so they can be the first to make the obvious comment that everybody upvotes) and frequent the most popular (and lowest effort) subreddits. Another problem: the last thing reddit needs is more incentive for users to improve their personal karma score. Karma is useful for readers, but that benefit is balanced against the incentives it provides for writers to optimize their karma score above all other considerations. I think HN achieves this balance better than reddit does by deemphasizing personal karma scores in various ways, and this is reflected in the user experience. It's bad enough when karma's just a driver of personal gamification. If it actually provided users with social clout and ability to frame the conversation, well, then it would be something with real world value. You wouldn't need click farms to manufacture viral content, just a few well-placed accounts with high scores. High-karma upvotes as a service. As a side-gig for a careful power user, it would be nigh-undetectable. Think of the difference between HN and reddit, then multiply it 10-fold. I think that's what you would end up with.

stephengillie 10y ago
Upvotes-as-a-service? That's the echo chamber eating its own tail.
- sparky_z 10y ago
  Not sure what you mean.

JoshTriplett 10y ago

I think that would have a stronger tendency to create an echo chamber. If anything, I'd suggest the reverse: it should count for more to have more votes from a less tightly coupled portion of the graph. As in, cluster the set of users based on various types of interactions, and include a multiplicative factor in scoring based on the distinctness of the users upvoting something. That way, you can get a modest score by appealing strongly to a small subset of users, but a massive score only by appealing to many distinct sets of users.

ThrustVectoring 10y ago
It'd also automatically damp the effects of voting rings.