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I grew up in Vancouver and I think this law is necessary (maybe). The big question here is...how do they tell if the house is unoccupied or if the owner is on a
by huangc10 10y ago
I grew up in Vancouver and I think this law is necessary (maybe). The big question here is...how do they tell if the house is unoccupied or if the owner is on an extended vacation? Can it really be enforced?
- sriram_sun 10y agoI think there is a similar issue in Geneva.
- vkou 10y agoThey can't - this is all for show.
- vehementi 10y agoWhy post with such confidence when you're not informed?
- vkou 10y agoWhen you're throwing two million dollars at a house, sight-unseen, that you then let stand empty for years, how difficult would it be to hire a housekeeper to come around the place every week, and make it look lived-in?
- gorkemyurt 10y agoyou might as well actually rent it out at that point..
- snrplfth 10y agoThat means tenancy contracts, risk of damage, and a whole raft of legal obligations.
- derefr 10y agoIf you're an absentee building owner, you don't (can't, really) worry about any of those things yourself. Instead, you lease your building to a property management agency, who handles all of that for you.
- jonknee 10y agoWell being a tax cheat also introduces a whole raft of legal obligations...
- snrplfth 10y agoI mean, as compared to the cost of making it look lived-in, or just stopping by so as to technically "be occupying it". Rents in Vancouver are at a very low ratio to the cash value of property, as bad as 70:1 (value:annual rent.) In the normal world, it's more usually 20:1. This means that the costs and risks of renting a property in Vancouver are often considered not worth it.
- anindha 10y agoThey could have a whistle blower reward. Someone is going to find out. Say 20% of the fine goes to the person that reported it.
- eli 10y agoHaving someone keep the house clean and presentable is in itself a laudable goal.
- OJFord 10y ago> When you're throwing two million dollars at a house, > sight-unseen, that you then let stand empty for years, ... you're not breaking a sweat paying the $20k. It sucks, you'd rather keep your $20k, of course. But it's not worth risking cheating it...
- mahyarm 10y agoWell with a gov't power monopoly, they can do things like check power and water utility usage. You can also look at tax return address records for the BC income tax part. Driver license / BCID / immigration records are another. You can also do a 'prove you have a resident in X months or be assessed fines' like many HOAs and mortgage agreements do for various things. Policies over large numbers aren't about %100 enforcement, a general behavior modification is considered a success usually.
- charlesdm 10y agoThey do this in Monaco as well. I read in an article a while back that some nonresidents have automated timers to turn on/off the lights, turn on the heating, water, etc.
- spitfire 10y agoI think that's mostly for tax avoidance purposes. So they can claim they were in Monaco for tax purposes - Avoiding taxes in their home country.
- charlesdm 10y agoTax evasion, actually. But yes. Was just implying that checking (or data mining) might not always lead to positives when you're dealing with cunning individuals.
- shermablanca 10y agoI was going to say this. These rules will drive investment in home automation. I'm also willing to bet that a large portion of the revenue generated from this scheme will be spent on the manpower necessary to enforce it. That being said I'm happy to be proven wrong, but can we expect any sort of data to support a hypothesis? I'm not sure as I'm unfamiliar with Canada's policies on access to public data.
- charlesdm 10y ago
- seanmcdirmid 10y agoThey ask politely, and you either lie or tell the truth. This is a big difference between the west and a country like the PRC where strong rule of law isn't a given. In the west, they will simply ask, with the caveat that perjury is a serious crime if you are found out. In China, they will figure out another way since trust isn't assumed and lying is considered a much weaker offense. Completely different systems. (The PRC is trying to go in a trust direction with income self reporting, but it doesn't affect the taxes you pay, oddly enough.)
- seanmcdirmid 10y agoHere is a better description: http://www.calgaryherald.com/vancouver+slaps+year+empty+homes+about/12372683/story.html http://www.calgaryherald.com/vancouver+slaps+year+empty+home... (Vancouver slaps $10,000 a year tax on empty homes. Lie about it and it’s $10,000 a day)
- elchief 10y agoIt's not a criminal trial. The burden of proof is low and the onus is on the homeowner, not the city. So if the city decides your property is vacant, you can go ahead and prove you were there, or you pay up.
- no1youknowz 10y ago> Can it really be enforced? Yes, it can be enforced. For example, in the US. Housing associations have staff that run around in cars taking photos of literally everything. Grass too long - Fine. Bins out outside of trash date - Fine. This happens daily. I know because I used to live at an HOA. My point being, hire individuals with cars to keep track of houses. Have photos of non-residency and then impose heavy fine to recoup costs.
- schwap 10y agoThat doesn't seem feasible for an entire city at all.
- bacongobbler 10y agoIt wouldn't be a daily thing. Maybe once every other year at most. The cost would be minimal to the government to hire a few contractors for a one-day thing.
- derefr 10y agoSort of like how the Consumer Price Index gets calculated, then.
- the_watcher 10y agoIf you are thinking about having someone driving around to photograph everything frequently, yes. But a couple of cars outfitted like the Google Street View cars, each given a section of the city to drive every other month or so is very feasible. You could also put cameras on any public transit vehicles to keep photos coming in from vehicles that are already being operated by city funds.
- quickben 10y agoWhy not? If you are looking at least 10k/house in taxes, it's very efficient to have a full time staff to check out the recently flipped (well...) MLG houses.
- 10y ago
- Kluny 10y agoI think Vancouverites are going to be phoning in to report their neighbors.