6 ms·

Apple, maybe, actually fights for your privacy, while Lenovo definitely exploits it for money. Is there a secure enclave chip in Lenovo? Do you really trust th

by elchief 10y ago

Apple, maybe, actually fights for your privacy, while Lenovo definitely exploits it for money. Is there a secure enclave chip in Lenovo? Do you really trust their firmware?

gruez 10y ago
I don't see how that's a relevant point if you're going to do a fresh install anyways, unless you think lenovo is going to use something like vpro to spy on you without the OS.
- jkestner 10y ago
  You're funding spyware, even if it's not on your own computer.
  - gruez 10y ago
    if you're referring to the superfish scandal, that piece of software wasn't developed by lenovo, it was developed by a third party, who paid lenovo to install it on their windows images. so i don't see how buying lenovo is "funding spyware".
    - tedunangst 10y ago
      More like Lenovo is taxing spyware, if you're going to install something other than Windows. Superfish only loses money on that transaction.
      - jkestner 10y ago
        Well, that makes me feel better. Let me rephrase: By buying Lenovo, you're supporting a company that exchanges the privacy and security of unwitting customers for profit.
  - na85 10y ago
    It goes both ways. By buying Apple you're funding walled gardens and anti-choice design patterns, abusive labor practices including child labor and sweatshop conditions at their prime contractors, and collusion with NSA et al via PRISM.
    - grzm 10y ago
      I'm not arguing a defense of Apple here. Honest question: Are there differences between computer manufacturers in these regards that you're aware of?
    - givinguflac 10y ago
      This comment is just ridiculous. Apple does more than ANY manufacturer to improve working and supply chain conditions, anywhere, and most OEMs use the same facilities so blaming Apple specifically is doubly silly. How is the Mac even close to a walled garden or anti choice??? They allow Windows and any app you want to be installed.. What are you talking about? And please, do provide a source for your "collusion with NSA" accusation as every other statement and action by Apple shows the opposite.
      - na85 10y ago
        Wow bud, sorry to have insulted your favourite company. They did in fact participate in PRISM, sorry to get you so worked up.
      - xorxornop 10y ago
        Hmm, let's see: can't run OSX and variants thereof except on Apple hardware (despite acceptable to flawless hardware compatibility), can't build software for OSX and variants thereof except on a Mac (despite being perfectly workable), can't use a different app store on iOS...
        rarepostinlurkr 10y ago
        Wasn't this very post about clear hardware incompatibilities with the latest laptops and linux? Despite appearing to be the same, it's clearly not, otherwise it would simply 'just work'. The idea that a constrained team spent the time to intentionally 'break' some 'standard' functionality to prohibit linux from working is laughable as well.
- givinguflac 10y ago
  They do. They've modified BIOS in the past to keep the spyware going.
cyrus_ 10y ago
Lenovo's malware scandal should certainly give you pause, but do note that it was only installed on its consumer laptops. Thinkpads were unaffected. Moreover, Apple is far from the cleanly ethical choice you seem to think it is. It blocks or impedes the installation of software that it has unilaterally decided is against its interests + takes a ludicrous percentage of revenue via the App Store.
- voidlogic 10y ago
  >Lenovo's malware scandal should certainly give you pause, but do note that it was only installed on its consumer laptops. Thinkpads were unaffected. And would not matter if you were installing Linux per this thread...
  - vardump 10y ago
    Operating system doesn't matter much when the malware is in BIOS or firmware code.
    - voidlogic 10y ago
      >Operating system doesn't matter much when the malware is in BIOS or firmware code. Are you insinuating that was the case here? Source please, I'd be interested to read about that.
      - voltagex_ 10y ago
        https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenovo-busted-stealthily-installing-crapware-via-bios-fresh-windows-installs.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenov...
      - Figs 10y ago
        Here are three news articles on what happened: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/lenovo-used-windows-anti-theft-feature-to-install-persistent-crapware/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/lenovo... http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-and-uefi-anti-theft-mechanism-makes-systems-less-secure/ http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-and-uefi-anti-th... http://www.pcworld.com/article/2969365/security/lenovos-service-engine-marks-yet-another-bloatware-blunder-for-the-company.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2969365/security/lenovos-serv... This should really only affect Windows systems as far as I know -- Windows is running an executable stored in the firmware at boot (a rather dubious feature, in my opinion, but it's intended as an anti-theft measure). Lenovo used that feature to try to circumvent removal of their crapware when someone reinstalls the OS.
234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
Err, Apple was a willing participant in the NSA's PRISM program.
- rarepostinlurkr 10y ago
  Someone adding a companies name to a slide is not proof of being a willing participant in anything.
  - 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
    Alright, why don't you tell me all the proof you have that Apple was not a participant in the programme? The NSA talks about them in internal documents, that they have absolutely zero incentive to lie on, that Apple is a part of PRISM. Why would the NSA lie about that on an internal document. Don't you think there would be documents saying "We tried to get Apple to cooperate, but they didn't. Until they do, these are the steps, techniques, and hacks we will use against their technology." I don't remember seeing any such documents.
    - discordance 10y ago
      My guess is most of the companies (Yahoo excluded) on the PRISM slide were not complicit with the PRISM or the NSA. More likely, they were pwned by the NSA without their knowing.
- orthecreedence 10y ago
  As much as I dislike Apple, I actually really doubt they were willing.

by elchief 10y ago

Apple, maybe, actually fights for your privacy, while Lenovo definitely exploits it for money. Is there a secure enclave chip in Lenovo? Do you really trust their firmware?

gruez 10y ago

I don't see how that's a relevant point if you're going to do a fresh install anyways, unless you think lenovo is going to use something like vpro to spy on you without the OS.

jkestner 10y ago
You're funding spyware, even if it's not on your own computer.
- gruez 10y ago
  if you're referring to the superfish scandal, that piece of software wasn't developed by lenovo, it was developed by a third party, who paid lenovo to install it on their windows images. so i don't see how buying lenovo is "funding spyware".
  - tedunangst 10y ago
    More like Lenovo is taxing spyware, if you're going to install something other than Windows. Superfish only loses money on that transaction.
    - jkestner 10y ago
      Well, that makes me feel better. Let me rephrase: By buying Lenovo, you're supporting a company that exchanges the privacy and security of unwitting customers for profit.
- na85 10y ago
  It goes both ways. By buying Apple you're funding walled gardens and anti-choice design patterns, abusive labor practices including child labor and sweatshop conditions at their prime contractors, and collusion with NSA et al via PRISM.
  - grzm 10y ago
    I'm not arguing a defense of Apple here. Honest question: Are there differences between computer manufacturers in these regards that you're aware of?
  - givinguflac 10y ago
    This comment is just ridiculous. Apple does more than ANY manufacturer to improve working and supply chain conditions, anywhere, and most OEMs use the same facilities so blaming Apple specifically is doubly silly. How is the Mac even close to a walled garden or anti choice??? They allow Windows and any app you want to be installed.. What are you talking about? And please, do provide a source for your "collusion with NSA" accusation as every other statement and action by Apple shows the opposite.
    - na85 10y ago
      Wow bud, sorry to have insulted your favourite company. They did in fact participate in PRISM, sorry to get you so worked up.
    - xorxornop 10y ago
      Hmm, let's see: can't run OSX and variants thereof except on Apple hardware (despite acceptable to flawless hardware compatibility), can't build software for OSX and variants thereof except on a Mac (despite being perfectly workable), can't use a different app store on iOS...
      - rarepostinlurkr 10y ago
        Wasn't this very post about clear hardware incompatibilities with the latest laptops and linux? Despite appearing to be the same, it's clearly not, otherwise it would simply 'just work'. The idea that a constrained team spent the time to intentionally 'break' some 'standard' functionality to prohibit linux from working is laughable as well.
givinguflac 10y ago
They do. They've modified BIOS in the past to keep the spyware going.

cyrus_ 10y ago

Lenovo's malware scandal should certainly give you pause, but do note that it was only installed on its consumer laptops. Thinkpads were unaffected. Moreover, Apple is far from the cleanly ethical choice you seem to think it is. It blocks or impedes the installation of software that it has unilaterally decided is against its interests + takes a ludicrous percentage of revenue via the App Store.

voidlogic 10y ago
>Lenovo's malware scandal should certainly give you pause, but do note that it was only installed on its consumer laptops. Thinkpads were unaffected. And would not matter if you were installing Linux per this thread...
- vardump 10y ago
  Operating system doesn't matter much when the malware is in BIOS or firmware code.
  - voidlogic 10y ago
    >Operating system doesn't matter much when the malware is in BIOS or firmware code. Are you insinuating that was the case here? Source please, I'd be interested to read about that.
    - voltagex_ 10y ago
      https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenovo-busted-stealthily-installing-crapware-via-bios-fresh-windows-installs.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150812/11395231925/lenov...
    - Figs 10y ago
      Here are three news articles on what happened: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/lenovo-used-windows-anti-theft-feature-to-install-persistent-crapware/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/lenovo... http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-and-uefi-anti-theft-mechanism-makes-systems-less-secure/ http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-and-uefi-anti-th... http://www.pcworld.com/article/2969365/security/lenovos-service-engine-marks-yet-another-bloatware-blunder-for-the-company.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2969365/security/lenovos-serv... This should really only affect Windows systems as far as I know -- Windows is running an executable stored in the firmware at boot (a rather dubious feature, in my opinion, but it's intended as an anti-theft measure). Lenovo used that feature to try to circumvent removal of their crapware when someone reinstalls the OS.

234dd57d2c8db 10y ago

Err, Apple was a willing participant in the NSA's PRISM program.

rarepostinlurkr 10y ago
Someone adding a companies name to a slide is not proof of being a willing participant in anything.
- 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
  Alright, why don't you tell me all the proof you have that Apple was not a participant in the programme? The NSA talks about them in internal documents, that they have absolutely zero incentive to lie on, that Apple is a part of PRISM. Why would the NSA lie about that on an internal document. Don't you think there would be documents saying "We tried to get Apple to cooperate, but they didn't. Until they do, these are the steps, techniques, and hacks we will use against their technology." I don't remember seeing any such documents.
  - discordance 10y ago
    My guess is most of the companies (Yahoo excluded) on the PRISM slide were not complicit with the PRISM or the NSA. More likely, they were pwned by the NSA without their knowing.
orthecreedence 10y ago
As much as I dislike Apple, I actually really doubt they were willing.