28 ms·

Show HN: Make an app by adding JSON to this app

648 points by gliechtenstein 10y ago

gliechtenstein 10y ago
Guys, the author here. This is my first open source project and I worked really hard on it for 5 months. I think it's really cool, and I hope you guys like it. I would appreciate any kind of feedback!
- jamesmcintyre 10y ago
  This is awesome! Thanks for doing the work to make the project accessible to everyone!
- shakna 10y ago
  What's the local fallback like? Does this continue to work at all if the client does something like change networks? I quite like the look from the limited glance over. (Probably going in my list for the next tiny thing I have to build).
  - gliechtenstein 10y ago
    There's a $cache action where you can store any JSON object into cache associated with the current url and reuse it later https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/#cache-vs-local-variable https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/#cache-vs-... Also there's an undocumented mode called "offline", where the JSON loads from the server once and after that it always loads from the initially fetched JSON stored locally. You just need to set "head": {"offline": "true} Hope this answers the question!
    - joelhaasnoot 10y ago
      It'd be even better if you could ship a version to the App Store with an embedded JSON. That way you'll always have some version of your app. Or does it do that already?
      - gliechtenstein 10y ago
        Why would you want to have a version of your app? I think one of the coolest part is it works like a website but natively. If you wanted to version apps, I think you could version it at git level, or just think of it as an API deployment. No?
        CJKinni 10y ago
        I didn't ask the question, but had the same thought. Basically, what if the first time someone loads your app, they don't have a network connection? After the first load, it sounds like I can handle the issue with the cache, but I care a lot about a good experience the first time someone opens the app. Still, very cool!
        joelhaasnoot 10y ago
        This indeed: there are more cases than you think where someone downloads your app but has no internet connection when using it. And that could be the first time. Shipping a JSON file ensures the end user will always have something. That something could be as simple as a message "I'm loading data, internet connection is required".
        gliechtenstein 10y ago
        Currently, it is possible to set a data-uri as the root url (in a correct format https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_URI_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_URI_scheme) I think that's one way you could handle this situation. Or one could fork the code and change a couple of lines to make this work, technically it would be just a couple of lines of code, but I think policy-wise it needs to be thought out. Please follow the project and feel free to start an issue thread, we can discuss further! :)
        shakna 10y ago
        Versioning means you can use Continuous Deployment easier. Once all the tests pass for your new feature, it gets shipped, but not before.
- yNeolh 10y ago
  Really cool, I always thought about something like this, but yours is more powerful that I have ever thought XD. The thing about this Is you can make IDEs and UI designers "easily" because you already have the engine. So good job ;) With this you could hide some porn apps in appStore so I don't know how "legal" it is, but that's just a minor problem ;)
- ayumu722 10y ago
  this is weird man, I had a similar idea like about a year ago, and just started coding some prototypes of it this week, my original idea was to scan a QR code and then you'll be presented with a native app, and I needed a way to code the elements of the app, and i didn't want to waste time writing a parser, so I used Json too lol. I was coding for android, maybe we should join forces ;)
- saganus 10y ago
  This is very interesting. However I'm no iOS developer, so could you give me a cursory explanation on how it works? I mean, I can imagine creating a framework that has "empty" screens, and then just loading data into them, but this seems like it can do much more. So for example, if I want an app with say 4 screens, and GPS access (if supported) and a few buttons, do you have all those objects already in memory and just copy them and inject the data to show on screen? Or maybe it's too early and I'm missing something. Very neat though!
  - gliechtenstein 10y ago
    Almost correct. To be precise, it doesn't have the objects in memory, it instantiates all the native components on demand based on the JSON recipe. And all of them of course go away once you close that view.
    - mitchtbaum 10y ago
      >> how it works > it instantiates .. components on demand In general, to wrap your information engine around how information engines wrap around components, check out this marvelous design pattern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visitor_pattern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visitor_pattern , like here https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/blob/develop/app/Jasonette/JasonComponentFactory.m#L54 https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/blob/develop/app/...
      - saganus 10y ago
        Aha! thanks to both of you for the answer. I've read about the Visitor pattern before, but did not link it to an engine like this.
- hiou 10y ago
  This is fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to create it. This looks like an amazingly simple way to create a prototype.
  - gliechtenstein 10y ago
    Thank you! Why stop at prototype though? All you need is a couple of more lines to actually make it work (make network requests, call native functions, react to user interaction etc) :)
- nbrogi 10y ago
  It's great. I can definitely see an use for this.
- nthcolumn 10y ago
  I don't haz Apple but it looks great.
- profalseidol 10y ago
  Great, but too bad, it's for getting into the jail. edit: just in case, i am just criticizing the support of Apple's monopoly.
  - rahkiin 10y ago
    What monopoly? There are many times more android devices than iOS devices.
- profalseidol 10y ago
  Great, but too bad, it's for getting into the jail.
- ikeboy 10y ago
  Does this break any of Apple's rules?
  - gliechtenstein 10y ago
    nope!
    - JoelMcCracken 10y ago
      Can you explain how it doesn't? I immediately think of embedding an interpreter in this thing for real, general application development. Congrats on shipping. This thing is cool.
      - gliechtenstein 10y ago
        Thank you! I think this thread is relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12879487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12879487
    - djsumdog 10y ago
      I've heard Android pulling apps that try to update themselves outside of the store. I was thinking this would be a great way to get by the update process in general, since you could cache the json if off-line or pull a new version if you're online. Of course with that extreme of a view, web views would break the rules too. :-P In any case, it's a cool project. I hope to see more production stuff using it.
- primitivesuave 10y ago
  I think it's really cool too. I especially love open-source projects like this that just work. I also appreciate your significant effort to make extensive and helpful documentation. Out of curiosity, what prompted you to start building this?
  - gliechtenstein 10y ago
    I didn't start from a grandeur goal, but had an existing app on the appstore and was frustrated with every single aspect of the app development process. So I started implementing little by little just to make it easier, and ended up with an app that's actually a precursor to Jasonette. I extracted Jasonette out from that app so others can use it too :)
- Ecio78 10y ago
  Hi Ethan, it looks very interesting, one feedback and one question: Feedback: you should try to slow down the gif demos, at least in my Chrome/laptop they are quite fast and the viewer can't really appreciate it completely Question: I see that XCode is required, I don't have a Mac only an iPhone). Any possible way to use Jasonette without a Mac? I've seen some services like Mac in a cloud but I was more thinking about alternative methods. For example, as the only setup required is to provide the URL, couldn't you create a generic Jasonette test/dev app where you can provide the url and do the testing/development directly only on the json side?
  - downandout 10y ago
    You can run the latest MacOS in VMware on Windows. It works perfectly - Google "VMware Unlocker" as a starting point. This setup actually runs faster than the older Mac Mini I bought specifically to develop for iOS, and it's obviously much more convenient to be able to use a Mac from Windows whenever needed. Both Xcode and a $99 Apple Developer subscription are required if you wish to distribute the app anyway, so I'd suggest you go the VMware route if you don't want to buy Mac hardware or use a cloud service.
    - Ecio78 10y ago
      I heard that running MacOS on a non-Apple hardware was not considered a legal solution. Am I wrong? I thought my idea of having a test Jasonette app where you put the url from the app after the boot to do your testing could be very easily doable and way not it could allow also to test the various existing apps that OP created: he could create a test app that downloads a list of his demo apps (so it is always up to date), show a dropdown or similar to choose the demo app + allow you to specify your own custom test url using the keyboard of the device. In this way you have both a demo and a test application :)
      - downandout 10y ago
        IANAL but I'm fairly certain that given Apple's resources, if they wanted to stop this practice, they'd have obliterated VMWare Unlocker from the map. It's been around for years, they certainly know about it, and they haven't done anything about it. So if not expressly legal, they certainly don't seem to have a problem with it.
- ovao 10y ago
  Congratulations on your first OSS project! It definitely seems I could use this.
- gavanwoolery 10y ago
  I worked in mobile development for a while and had this idea in the back of my head during that time. I am glad to see that you have implemented it! Most frameworks walk the ugly line of having one foot in a standard stack (like a web stack) and one foot in the native-mobile world.
  - tajen 10y ago
    But isn't it forbidden by Apple's ToS? I thought scripting, loading code from the internet, and apps built from a code-generator were forbidden?
    - ENGNR 10y ago
      Only if you significantly change the functionality from what's in the description
- nichochar 10y ago
  Your project is really cool, you should be proud :) !
- sdsk8 10y ago
  Just came here to say this is AWSOME, keep up the good work and i wish you the best. This is going to help a lot of people that want to prototype or even deploy a full featured app without spending months of coding.
walke 10y ago
Very neat and well put together! Thank you for taking the time to prepare nice documentation to go along with it! Congrats on your release!
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Thank you! I had no idea documentation would be this hard. As a wise man said, I learned that open source project is "1% inspiration and 99% documentation" :)
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  I need some kind of service to create a wrapper app (yes, I know, everyone hates it and so do I) for website, only add a bit branding and hamburger menu. I've been looking for free or paid solutions, but I haven't found any.
libeclipse 10y ago
Wow that is actually a brilliant idea. Would you ever consider making an android version?
- bashtian 10y ago
  I had a similar idea and started with an android app [1] for creating an app template with a simple interface directly on the device. It's not as powerful as this, but maybe I can implement basic support for these templates. But right now this would be only like a viewer and not something that can be used for own apps, not sure how useful that could be. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bashtian.appcreator https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bashtian.a...
- yla92 10y ago
  There is something called json2view[0] for android which allows you to render the views according the specific json format. Definitely not as powerful as Jasonette but could be useful sometimes.
ruudk 10y ago
Cool idea. But I'm wondering if this is allowed in the App Store?
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Yup, in fact this was extracted from production apps on the appstore. Here's one: www.textethan.com The way this works is like how a web browser works, all the code you will ever need is already in the binary, the JSON markup is just used to custom-construct your own app to your liking in realtime.
  - yoz-y 10y ago
    What do you mean by extracted? Did those applications use something similar or did you collaborate with the creators?
    - gliechtenstein 10y ago
      No that's me. I'm Ethan, and I created that Ethan app. Jasonette was born out of my frustration with various aspects of working on the Ethan app. So that app (and all other apps I have created since) currently run on Jasonette. Sorry for the confusion with names.
- cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
  This doesn't download any binary code so I think it's fine
- kejaed 10y ago
  Yes it is. There was an SDK called TapLynx back in the day made by Brent Simmons of NewsGator and Innesential [0] fame. . It was $600 and a quick way to get an App released in the late App gold rush days with only an XML file. It was acquired by PushIO which was acquired by Oracle. Along the way the SDK stopped getting updates with new iOS versions and Apps stopped working. The yearly updates of the iOS SDK will impose a bunch of work on SDKs like this to keep up. A good model for open source. All the best to the author, might be a good model for a consulting gig around the open source SDK for sure. [0] http://inessential.com/ http://inessential.com/
mpweiher 10y ago
Instead of JSON, you could also consider sending XML markup. Oh wait, or maybe reuse an existing SGML/XML standard called...HTML. And then you could add scripting...
- joelhaasnoot 10y ago
  The problem with this is that there will always be some sort of disadvantage HTML5/hybrid/etc apps have over real native apps. Things like interaction, calendar integration, 3D graphics, etc, etc never work as well as they do as for native apps. In addition, if they do work on a technical level, Apple or Google may add an API tomorrow that either breaks, or you'll have to wait on the supplier of your HTML5 magic framework to add support, etc. If you want high quality, responsive UIs and apps, native is the way to go. For a simple app, I think this is a good idea - going to play around with it for some simple apps.
  - derefr 10y ago
    You're assuming that choosing HTML as a format forces you to use all the associated web-platform goop to render it. In the end, HTML is just a standard for defining view element hierarchies; CSS is just a standard for specifying declarative layout constraints on those element hierarchies; and JavaScript is (supposed to be) just a standard for specifying how interactions with those views are bound to your view-controller. (The view-controller in a browser originally being an NPAPI <object> like a Java or ActiveX applet.) None of these standard formats has any particular tie to the way web browsers use them. The standards, of course, go beyond syntax, and also specify the HTML elements, CSS properties, and JS DOM that define "the web" as a platform. But it's perfectly possible to use HTML, CSS, and JS syntax—with standard parsers!—to power your own windowing toolkit. Define your windowing toolkit's view hierarchy format as "HTML syntax, but with these valid elements" (where they map to the controls in the toolkit.) Define your windowing toolkit's layout constraint properties format as "CSS but with these valid properties", where these map to the properties the toolkit exposes on the controls. And finally, drop-in a JS engine, but don't tell it to expose any APIs to the view to control things from Javascript; rather just mirror the API of the view-controller attached to the view as a set of opaque callback functions that can be hooked up to the elements of the view with addEventListener. XUL or XAML could have just been this. ePub is basically just this (though in some implementations a webview is used.) And, as a side-benefit, it becomes very easy to, like ePub, define your element and layout-constraint formats as supersets of HTML and CSS, such that people can still use familiar HTML elements and CSS properties for inline rich-text styling inside <label>s et al, while still using your toolkit's controls for everything else.
nhorob67 10y ago
Native app newbie here. Can this solution be used to present data tables?
mentos 10y ago
Really great stuff! What is the most advanced application you have created with this? What functionality do you think is still lacking? If you were to try to create a full featured app I imagine you'd find that working in Swift is the better option. What this reveals to me is that the App Store submission and update process is so time consuming you would rather write your logic in Json than in native Swift/ObjC. If Xcode let you instantaneously push app binary updates would this be as useful?
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  There's an issue thread where we're discussing this: https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/4 https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/4
  - mentos 10y ago
    My fear is that for most apps Jasonette will be too abstract and require lower level languages like Swift/ObjC to be more expressive. I think a good exercise would be to find a popular mobile app and recreate all of the functionality with Jasonette, developing missing features where you need them. A demo showing you recreate Tinder or iMessage by bolting a few pieces of logic together in Jasonette would go a long way in maturing the functionality and demonstrating its viability. Have you considered weaving Parse or Firebase into this?
    - gliechtenstein 10y ago
      Yup, try this https://jasonbase.com/things/zn1/edit https://jasonbase.com/things/zn1/edit
  - mentos 10y ago
    The advantages of creating your own wysiwyg editor is that you can control exactly what functionality Jasonette supports and allow developers to create views across different platforms (right now Xcode is Mac only). But have you considered starting with Interface Builder and creating a tool to convert IB views to JSON? Interface Builder is home to a lot of developers who already understand how to use that tool, asking devs to work in a new half baked editor would probably be frustrating and add more complexity/moving parts which is your enemy as a new project/endeavor. If you create a tool that just converts IB views to JSON you can demonstrate progress much faster and learn and experiment with what the requirements of the final editor are. It will be much easier to stand up and way less effort than maintaining your own editor codebase while the project is young. Your time is the most valuable thing you have so don't spend it creating a new editor which could be its own project in itself. You want to put it towards expanding missing functionality between JSON and native components. One day when you find success and if you really still need to limit the user you can move all the functions you made for converting Interface Builder views into your own custom editor. I think first thing I would do is take a very complicated interface view from a native project and analyze the view hierarchy and report errors to the user like "Warning: Nested UITableViews are not supported in Jasonette", "UIButton delegate will be ignored", etc. Then once you create this sort of 'unit test' that the IB is well-formatted you can then go about exporting it to JSON. There may be a world where you actually are able to use all of the functionality of IB and don't ever have to have your own editor.
oliv__ 10y ago
Wow this is really impressive. If you had enough JSON-to-native "modules", basically anyone could write a native app in a few hours (since functionality in most apps is pretty much standard stuff)! Hell, if you pushed this further you could create an app store for code, letting you buy additional modules to plug into your app like lego.
ldjb 10y ago
This is a wonderful idea! Making app development faster and easier can only be a good thing. Now if only it were possible to place a generic version of this app on the App Store and allow users to load in the JSON for whatever app they want. Sadly I very much doubt Apple would allow it.
hex13 10y ago
Been there, done that. When I coded games, I made some simple JSON based file format and almost whole game was in form of JSON. I even implemented conditional and loops in JSON. But It can easy lead to inner platform effect. Not needed complexity. And in JSON you can't write JS code (needed for e.g. event handlers). So I switched to JS. Still data-driven approach (simple hierarchical objects with data), but with power of JS (and if you're use Babel, you could use JSX for your DSL). So: I don't think JSON is best format for what you try to achieve. It's just so limited. Besides what is added value of Jasonette? When I look on Jasonette I have feeling that it's just reinvents ReactJS but in JSON not JSX. Not sure if there is much profit with JSON format alone.
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/ https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/
  - hex13 10y ago
    yeah, predefined actions for often used features is good (if you assure that it would be possible to add some custom JS action if needed), but frankly I think this project could be better (I mean, really better, it would be killer app), if you would go further and made visual editor for that. Some sort of modern WYSIWYG. Nobody wants to edit manually plain JSON files... But if editor could let you to make apps without code and generate/modify these JSONs for you, it would be nice. I think data-driven approach is huge win for that. It's all data after all. What is the problem? Creating visual editor is hard. Idea is obvious, but implementation, ux etc. is hard (I see sometimes visual editors for apps and most of it are sh*t).
    - gliechtenstein 10y ago
      Thanks for the feedback! We discuss that issue here: https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/4 https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/4 Please follow the project if you're interested in finding out where this goes :)
  - 10y ago
felipeccastro 10y ago
This is very interesting, although JSON is not a very comfortable format to build manually - I think writing in YAML or CSON would be much cleaner to read/write, and easily converted to JSON. Also, any plans on building a UI for generating this JSON? If you have predefined components, you could make some sort of designer that builds the JSON for the user, that could turn into a commercial project I think.
- SparkyMcUnicorn 10y ago
  Transpilers should be pretty straight forward. Maybe even for HTML syntax.
  - gliechtenstein 10y ago
    Yeah we were actually discussing whether we should support HJSON natively or not https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/5 https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/5 But as for HTML, I decided to incorporate it natively because it's def worth it: https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/templates/#html https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/templates/#html
- Edmond 10y ago
  I have the perfect solution for this type of JSON configuration management, I wrote up a post on it: http://blog.crudzilla.com/2016/10/managing-configurations-with-object.html http://blog.crudzilla.com/2016/10/managing-configurations-wi... If you want to try the demo, send me an email (in my profile) and I will give you the login.
Kiro 10y ago
Looks cool but what kind of apps are you supposed to build with this?
amelius 10y ago
Is this HTML reinvented? :)
- IshKebab 10y ago
  Seems similar, but there are definitely advantages to this approach. HTML is crap for making apps.
ashish348 10y ago
how to make an app in 15 min | How to develop a mobile app free https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnsYachOafk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnsYachOafk
- hatsunearu 10y ago
  Didn't know Red Hat spams hacker news for some crappy mobile app thing!
ashish348 10y ago
Learn how to make an app in 15 min | How to develop a mobile app free Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnsYachOafk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnsYachOafk
devcorn 10y ago
Hey Buddy!, Great concept and smooth execution. Something for Android?
zupreme 10y ago
I'm at a restaurant reading this so I haven't had a chance to test it out yet but having reviewed the website I already see a massive use for this: Programmatic app building. This is an awesome idea. I can't wait to play with it.
blairanderson 10y ago
I would recommend adding documentation for shipping to the App Store. Even if it's as simple as "just build and submit".
djhworld 10y ago
The more I scrolled down this page the more impressed I got. What's the performance like? Does it handle switching views back and forth? Keep state?
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Thanks! I think the best way to see is to actually jump in and try it out. I tried my best to make the onboarding as seamless as possible, so normally it should take like 20 seconds from download to having the app on your phone (assuming you already have latest XCode installed) It does handle switching back and forth and everything else you would expect from a native app, because it is native (and not an emulation) :)
lpasselin 10y ago
Small detail I enjoyed from your website (on mobile, might be different for desktop) : header text positioned to the right of the screen (or content div). Position right is something we don't see often. This shows it is a great way to make your page easier to read.
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Thank you for noticing! :)
tzm 10y ago
Looks like a new name from jasonclient.org. Previously discussed 6 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11736817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11736817
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Yup I worked on open sourcing it for 6 months! This is the open source version of Jasonclient
swframe 10y ago
I've built similar platforms. Naturally, I think they are awesome. They are a core part of very valuable products like SAP, Salesforce, etc. You will get a lot of push back from high developers who prefer direct access to the native api or html. Please don't let them discourage you. My response to them is that they can build reusable components that are driven by your json layer (win-win). There are enough developers who will benefit. Try to get funding sooner than later. I waited too long. You can't keep up building this by yourself.
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Thank you for the advice! Honestly it means a lot!
  - throwaway43 10y ago
    Don't listen to the haters. This is extremely valuable. Especially in E-commerce. Like when you have an ever expanding product line and new categories are being added all the time. Ever wondered why Amazon uses web views all over ? Many E-commerce companies would love to be able to do extensive A/B testing or add analytics on the fly but are crippled by the App store and the limitations of native apps. Some have even built versions of this themselves. What we need is an Android port of this and then this will be some hot shit. I am willing to help on the iOS side in any way I can.
    - gliechtenstein 10y ago
      Thank you! Please follow the project and join the Slack channel if you can :)
      - throwaway43 10y ago
        But my personal view is that we should support a syntax that is a subset or derivative of HTML while being performant so that any existing web framework can generate smooth native apps (while also side stepping Apples rules against implementing a browser engine :P). It sounds stupid but I work in E-commerce and have wished for this many times.
jzelinskie 10y ago
FWIW, the name is quite similar to https://github.com/google/jsonnet https://github.com/google/jsonnet
desireco42 10y ago
I know, it is too simple, people's head just exploded. Well, there seem to be great number of uses for this. I think this is excellent idea. Off to make an app... or two.
markbnj 10y ago
Well you do need to be a little bit of a programmer. You have loops in there, and evaluating properties of objects, etc. Interesting idea and it looks like you've done a nice job of it.
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  I think I need to make some changes to the main screenshots, those are actually one of the most advanced features of Jasonette. You don't really need to use those templates at all. What those templates do is let you do advanced stuff like client-side rendering, dynamic data processing, etc. But you can build a full fledged app WITHOUT any of those advanced stuff. Watch the video on the website and you'll get it immediately!
robk 10y ago
This plus Huginn will be awesome for dynamic apps
babuskov 10y ago
I made something very similar in 2004. Instead of JSON, you would supply PHP arrays. The enabled to mix in some conditional code and make it more flexible for different usage patterns. We shipped a pretty big ERP application this way. I have since left the company, but the software still works on 200+ installations.
ing33k 10y ago
Congrats on the release ! this actually reminded me of a startup which lets you create a native app using API documentation ( swagger ). Edit : If I can find the bookmark, I will the link to that startup here.
achairapart 10y ago
What about Push Notifications? Are they supported somehow? Great project, by the way!
chaudhary27 10y ago
This is great. I am new to iOS and this seems very promising.
vvanders 10y ago
Very cool. For what it's worth most med-high profile games are built on similar techniques albeit at a larger scale. You're largely building tools and reusable components that let designers, artists and animators define behavior, look & feel. It goes by a couple different names but the most common one I see is "Content Driven Development". As you've noticed it has all sorts of benefits like fast iteration time, updates on the fly and ability to allow non-coders to bring in their perspectives to build experiences. Don't let the ivory tower haters get you down, it's a very powerful and valid approach in the appropriate domains.
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Thank you for the encouraging words!! { ˃̵̑ᴥ˂̵̑}b
  - hakcermani 10y ago
    Taking this a step further, perhaps this can become a quick mock up tool ?
joshu 10y ago
Is there support for loading more pieces of the app on demand (so the server can generate them?)
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  can you elaborate?
sintaxi 10y ago
This is really cool. Why not also support the web? With an Immutable store you could easily use react to display this app on the web without needing native install. Great job. Look forward to seeing where this goes.
ARothfusz 10y ago
How do app permissions work? Is there a way to make Jasonette request only the permissions needed by my JSON?
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  what kind of app permissions?
  - Implicated 10y ago
    Push notifications/camera/photo access and such?
yla92 10y ago
This is really great one. Shameless plug, we've built similar (but smaller) concept for the filter form of our apps[0] (cross platform, natively for Web, Android and iOS) mainly because we were tired of having to change the search filter form fields and logics in every app update. Now, we just have to change the configuration and the filter form changes instantly. [0]: web version can be found at - https://www.99.co/singapore/rent https://www.99.co/singapore/rent
anupshinde 10y ago
This looks very cool. And tempting at the first glance. As I read more of the documentation, I can't help stop comparing it with React-native for the rendering part. I remember somebody mentioning server-rendered mobile apps in one of the early react-native apps. This is pretty much achieving that. However, the comparison ends there. This is great! Its just too simple to make an app and probably when the app grows one could create a transpiler to generate this json
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Thanks! You'd be pleasantly surprised to learn what's coming up, please follow the project to stay in touch :)
Xeoncross 10y ago
Students (especially younger ones) often need more help seeing the light at the end of the learning tunnel. Something like this is a great start to teaching development and spurring them onto an actual language. I usually don't start with CSS let alone SCSS for websites, basic HTML shows them instant results for what they typed and gives them more endurance for the longer learning curve (but more power) provided by CSS.
ethaligan 10y ago
Never thought you could do that much with just JSON, this looks very promising for students or for fast prototyping.
yellowapple 10y ago
What would be the feasability of an Android port? I like the concept, but hate that it's for a platform that I refuse to touch with a ten-foot pole.
hyperpallium 10y ago
OK, this obviously looks like a web browser (native...) using json instead of (xml-like) html, though it's not good as a markup language. Interesting is having declarative templates on the client side, instead of server-side, for accessing json APIs. Of course you can do this in browsers (and it is done), but this is cleaner and simpler, being a fresh reinvention.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jwebb99 10y ago
Is is possible to include some kind rich text/html editor that can send data back to a server via JSON? Is it possible to send any user data back to a server with Jasonette?
jv22222 10y ago
Great Job. This is the next iteration of Titanium Appcelerator and Xamarin style apps (which basically do the same thing but internally).
ajhit406 10y ago
I found it interesting that the author has actually submitted the same idea 4 times to varying degrees of interest: https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=gliechtenstein https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=gliechtenstein It’s easy to forget that good ideas take a lot of time and iterations until they become magical. Great things do not happen overnight and without much sacrifice. The majority of people would give up the first time the community dismissed their prototype. Big props for not giving up.
- v512 10y ago
  Exactly my thought. You need a bit of luck along with good project to get viral on HN. Otherday I saw simple PDF memo generator got lots of traction while so many other cool apps didn't even surface up.
heavy_machinery 10y ago
This is awesome. Do you plan on releasing an Android version?
OOPMan 10y ago
Nice to see you getting so much positive feedback, here is some negative feedback balance it out: * How is this different from any of the other declarative app building systems that have, as yet, failed to take the world at large by storm? * Why JSON? I get it's universal but it's also annoying to write. Why didn't you consider YAML or , even better, HOCON? * Do you really think loop syntax in a declarative language is a good idea, because to me it always comes across as a nasty anti-pattern to get around the fact that declarative languages don't tend to handle this well? Otherwise, nice effort. Better than anything I've ever shown to the world :-)
emmanvazz 10y ago
This is awesome! I actually had this same idea and built a platform for non-technical people to have the ability to build native apps. We picked Xamarin.Forms as our mobile framework because that way we could target most of the mobile platforms and share as much code between those project. We also picked Drupal a CMS to give non-techies an easy framework to build things out. I am going to keep an eye on this project for some different ideas and maybe one day we can pick your brain with our idea/platform.
frostymarvelous 10y ago
Is anyone working on an Android port? I'd definitely want to give it a go. Haven't checked yet, but is there a spec for the json?
thecrazyone 10y ago
Android and web dev here, how would you compare this to nativescript and such? Instead of learning a new dsl, isn't web to native simpler? Unless you're developing a game I've never found native to be necessary. I'm one of those devs who moved from native to hybrid for faster development speed [edit] I really like how you're participating in the comments and how you reply. I really hope you do well, you seem like a nice person :-)
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Thank you! If you thought these JS based app development was fast, you're in for a real treat! Check out these apps I wrote as exercise: https://github.com/gliechtenstein/botlist.json https://github.com/gliechtenstein/botlist.json & https://github.com/gliechtenstein/kitty.json https://github.com/gliechtenstein/kitty.json I built these in around 15 minutes each, and you can too, once you get used to the markup you can too (which also is great since all you need to learn is the consistent JSON syntax which works for actions, view layouts, and styling. There is no real "environment setup" and "becoming a programmer" process that most people need to go through just to get anything running).
tomcam 10y ago
Late to the game--where does logic go? Looping? DB access? Would they be written in Objective C as actions?
- tomcam 10y ago
  OK, I missed that actions can be chained through an optional 'success' action: https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/#b-handling-another-actions-result https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/#b-handlin...
niklaslogren 10y ago
This seems similar to what is used internally at AppSpotr[1] (disclaimer: I'm a former employee). They also use JSON to represent apps that can be rendered in iOS/Android clients. The difference is that apps must be built using a WYSIWYG editor rather than by editing the JSON directly. From my experience, a JSON representation works very well for a big percentage of all the apps out there, and you can often do without custom code. Good job creating this open-source version, it looks very expressive and useful! [1] https://www.appspotr.com/ https://www.appspotr.com/
jscholes 10y ago
This looks really interesting. How can you localise an app's UI when using this?
- tomaskafka 10y ago
  I immediately thought of backing this with a simple node.js server and using templating for this.
unlogic 10y ago
> "text": "{{$jason.find('#about h2').text().trim()}}" Yeah, you can only get so far being declarative. Miracles don't happen.
tomaskafka 10y ago
One use case: you have a game or app, and want to publish rich promo screens for new features or in game events. Even to old versions of clients. We once built a tiny in-house framework for this, based on Lua (game downloaded a package of Lua script and image resources and displayed the promo). If there was something ready to use (and multiplatform - at least android and ios), we could have saved quite some development time.
robk 10y ago
This is quite useful with a Huginn server setup to dynamically feed JSON out https://github.com/cantino/huginn https://github.com/cantino/huginn
mcudich 10y ago
Neat project! I've been working on something similar here: https://github.com/mcudich/TemplateKit https://github.com/mcudich/TemplateKit
srikz 10y ago
This is nice. I always wondered why something like this isn't available. I built a nested tab-bar menu system for an e-commerce app recently which can be generated from a json file.
reubano 10y ago
This is very cool! Do you have a spec to share? First thing i thought of is that it would be awesome to write webapp and static site generator implementations of the jason spec. Im in the process of making my own static site, and im storing as much of configuration and content as possible in json.
lewtds 10y ago
Congratulations! I think you have "discovered" QML, my favorite environment for rapid GUI development, incredibly intuitive. You may want to to look into that for inspiration.
macca321 10y ago
So what this is, is an IOS hypermedia (AKA true REST) client, for consuming APIs serving a custom (as opposed to generic) hypermedia format. The format itself is designed for a particular problem domain, namely outputting mobile-application specific controls and behaviours. It would be an interesting exercise to extract those aspects into a custom vocab for JSON-LD + Hydra (or Siren, or (insert) other generic hypermedia formats). http://www.markus-lanthaler.com/hydra/ http://www.markus-lanthaler.com/hydra/ It would also be interesting to have the hypermedia format defined as a schema somewhere.
mark_wong 10y ago
I tried building the instagram clone but get: Failed to create provisioning profile. The app ID "home.master.Instagram-UI-example.Jasonette.com.githubusercontent.raw" cannot be registered to your development team. Change your bundle identifier to a unique string to try again. Anyone knows whats up? I ran the setup and inputted 2 and supplied the URL from the Github..
- mathiasrw 10y ago
  The app ID is alreay in use. Change the string (add your name or something)
donjuanica 10y ago
Finally got around to trying this today and so far I'm super-impressed. Thank you for making this available to all. I've already built an app for our local Capoeira Studio. Took me about 90mins not knowing anything about Jasonette beforehand. Normally I probably would have spent 2-3 days on something similar. There is definitely a space for this type of project. There will always be dissenters and those who disagree with your approach - but as they say, you can't please all the people all the time. Thanks for your work.

648 points by gliechtenstein 10y ago

Guys, the author here. This is my first open source project and I worked really hard on it for 5 months. I think it's really cool, and I hope you guys like it. I would appreciate any kind of feedback!

jamesmcintyre 10y ago
This is awesome! Thanks for doing the work to make the project accessible to everyone!
shakna 10y ago
What's the local fallback like? Does this continue to work at all if the client does something like change networks? I quite like the look from the limited glance over. (Probably going in my list for the next tiny thing I have to build).
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  There's a $cache action where you can store any JSON object into cache associated with the current url and reuse it later https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/#cache-vs-local-variable https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/#cache-vs-... Also there's an undocumented mode called "offline", where the JSON loads from the server once and after that it always loads from the initially fetched JSON stored locally. You just need to set "head": {"offline": "true} Hope this answers the question!
  - joelhaasnoot 10y ago
    It'd be even better if you could ship a version to the App Store with an embedded JSON. That way you'll always have some version of your app. Or does it do that already?
    - gliechtenstein 10y ago
      Why would you want to have a version of your app? I think one of the coolest part is it works like a website but natively. If you wanted to version apps, I think you could version it at git level, or just think of it as an API deployment. No?
      - CJKinni 10y ago
        I didn't ask the question, but had the same thought. Basically, what if the first time someone loads your app, they don't have a network connection? After the first load, it sounds like I can handle the issue with the cache, but I care a lot about a good experience the first time someone opens the app. Still, very cool!
        joelhaasnoot 10y ago
        This indeed: there are more cases than you think where someone downloads your app but has no internet connection when using it. And that could be the first time. Shipping a JSON file ensures the end user will always have something. That something could be as simple as a message "I'm loading data, internet connection is required".
        gliechtenstein 10y ago
        Currently, it is possible to set a data-uri as the root url (in a correct format https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_URI_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_URI_scheme) I think that's one way you could handle this situation. Or one could fork the code and change a couple of lines to make this work, technically it would be just a couple of lines of code, but I think policy-wise it needs to be thought out. Please follow the project and feel free to start an issue thread, we can discuss further! :)
      - shakna 10y ago
        Versioning means you can use Continuous Deployment easier. Once all the tests pass for your new feature, it gets shipped, but not before.
yNeolh 10y ago
Really cool, I always thought about something like this, but yours is more powerful that I have ever thought XD. The thing about this Is you can make IDEs and UI designers "easily" because you already have the engine. So good job ;) With this you could hide some porn apps in appStore so I don't know how "legal" it is, but that's just a minor problem ;)
ayumu722 10y ago
this is weird man, I had a similar idea like about a year ago, and just started coding some prototypes of it this week, my original idea was to scan a QR code and then you'll be presented with a native app, and I needed a way to code the elements of the app, and i didn't want to waste time writing a parser, so I used Json too lol. I was coding for android, maybe we should join forces ;)
saganus 10y ago
This is very interesting. However I'm no iOS developer, so could you give me a cursory explanation on how it works? I mean, I can imagine creating a framework that has "empty" screens, and then just loading data into them, but this seems like it can do much more. So for example, if I want an app with say 4 screens, and GPS access (if supported) and a few buttons, do you have all those objects already in memory and just copy them and inject the data to show on screen? Or maybe it's too early and I'm missing something. Very neat though!
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Almost correct. To be precise, it doesn't have the objects in memory, it instantiates all the native components on demand based on the JSON recipe. And all of them of course go away once you close that view.
  - mitchtbaum 10y ago
    >> how it works > it instantiates .. components on demand In general, to wrap your information engine around how information engines wrap around components, check out this marvelous design pattern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visitor_pattern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visitor_pattern , like here https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/blob/develop/app/Jasonette/JasonComponentFactory.m#L54 https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/blob/develop/app/...
    - saganus 10y ago
      Aha! thanks to both of you for the answer. I've read about the Visitor pattern before, but did not link it to an engine like this.
hiou 10y ago
This is fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to create it. This looks like an amazingly simple way to create a prototype.
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Thank you! Why stop at prototype though? All you need is a couple of more lines to actually make it work (make network requests, call native functions, react to user interaction etc) :)
nbrogi 10y ago
It's great. I can definitely see an use for this.
nthcolumn 10y ago
I don't haz Apple but it looks great.
profalseidol 10y ago
Great, but too bad, it's for getting into the jail. edit: just in case, i am just criticizing the support of Apple's monopoly.
- rahkiin 10y ago
  What monopoly? There are many times more android devices than iOS devices.
profalseidol 10y ago
Great, but too bad, it's for getting into the jail.
ikeboy 10y ago
Does this break any of Apple's rules?
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  nope!
  - JoelMcCracken 10y ago
    Can you explain how it doesn't? I immediately think of embedding an interpreter in this thing for real, general application development. Congrats on shipping. This thing is cool.
    - gliechtenstein 10y ago
      Thank you! I think this thread is relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12879487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12879487
  - djsumdog 10y ago
    I've heard Android pulling apps that try to update themselves outside of the store. I was thinking this would be a great way to get by the update process in general, since you could cache the json if off-line or pull a new version if you're online. Of course with that extreme of a view, web views would break the rules too. :-P In any case, it's a cool project. I hope to see more production stuff using it.
primitivesuave 10y ago
I think it's really cool too. I especially love open-source projects like this that just work. I also appreciate your significant effort to make extensive and helpful documentation. Out of curiosity, what prompted you to start building this?
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  I didn't start from a grandeur goal, but had an existing app on the appstore and was frustrated with every single aspect of the app development process. So I started implementing little by little just to make it easier, and ended up with an app that's actually a precursor to Jasonette. I extracted Jasonette out from that app so others can use it too :)
Ecio78 10y ago
Hi Ethan, it looks very interesting, one feedback and one question: Feedback: you should try to slow down the gif demos, at least in my Chrome/laptop they are quite fast and the viewer can't really appreciate it completely Question: I see that XCode is required, I don't have a Mac only an iPhone). Any possible way to use Jasonette without a Mac? I've seen some services like Mac in a cloud but I was more thinking about alternative methods. For example, as the only setup required is to provide the URL, couldn't you create a generic Jasonette test/dev app where you can provide the url and do the testing/development directly only on the json side?
- downandout 10y ago
  You can run the latest MacOS in VMware on Windows. It works perfectly - Google "VMware Unlocker" as a starting point. This setup actually runs faster than the older Mac Mini I bought specifically to develop for iOS, and it's obviously much more convenient to be able to use a Mac from Windows whenever needed. Both Xcode and a $99 Apple Developer subscription are required if you wish to distribute the app anyway, so I'd suggest you go the VMware route if you don't want to buy Mac hardware or use a cloud service.
  - Ecio78 10y ago
    I heard that running MacOS on a non-Apple hardware was not considered a legal solution. Am I wrong? I thought my idea of having a test Jasonette app where you put the url from the app after the boot to do your testing could be very easily doable and way not it could allow also to test the various existing apps that OP created: he could create a test app that downloads a list of his demo apps (so it is always up to date), show a dropdown or similar to choose the demo app + allow you to specify your own custom test url using the keyboard of the device. In this way you have both a demo and a test application :)
    - downandout 10y ago
      IANAL but I'm fairly certain that given Apple's resources, if they wanted to stop this practice, they'd have obliterated VMWare Unlocker from the map. It's been around for years, they certainly know about it, and they haven't done anything about it. So if not expressly legal, they certainly don't seem to have a problem with it.
ovao 10y ago
Congratulations on your first OSS project! It definitely seems I could use this.
gavanwoolery 10y ago
I worked in mobile development for a while and had this idea in the back of my head during that time. I am glad to see that you have implemented it! Most frameworks walk the ugly line of having one foot in a standard stack (like a web stack) and one foot in the native-mobile world.
- tajen 10y ago
  But isn't it forbidden by Apple's ToS? I thought scripting, loading code from the internet, and apps built from a code-generator were forbidden?
  - ENGNR 10y ago
    Only if you significantly change the functionality from what's in the description
nichochar 10y ago
Your project is really cool, you should be proud :) !
sdsk8 10y ago
Just came here to say this is AWSOME, keep up the good work and i wish you the best. This is going to help a lot of people that want to prototype or even deploy a full featured app without spending months of coding.

walke 10y ago

Very neat and well put together! Thank you for taking the time to prepare nice documentation to go along with it! Congrats on your release!

gliechtenstein 10y ago
Thank you! I had no idea documentation would be this hard. As a wise man said, I learned that open source project is "1% inspiration and 99% documentation" :)
angry-hacker 10y ago
I need some kind of service to create a wrapper app (yes, I know, everyone hates it and so do I) for website, only add a bit branding and hamburger menu. I've been looking for free or paid solutions, but I haven't found any.

libeclipse 10y ago

Wow that is actually a brilliant idea. Would you ever consider making an android version?

bashtian 10y ago
I had a similar idea and started with an android app [1] for creating an app template with a simple interface directly on the device. It's not as powerful as this, but maybe I can implement basic support for these templates. But right now this would be only like a viewer and not something that can be used for own apps, not sure how useful that could be. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bashtian.appcreator https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bashtian.a...
yla92 10y ago
There is something called json2view[0] for android which allows you to render the views according the specific json format. Definitely not as powerful as Jasonette but could be useful sometimes.

ruudk 10y ago

Cool idea. But I'm wondering if this is allowed in the App Store?

gliechtenstein 10y ago
Yup, in fact this was extracted from production apps on the appstore. Here's one: www.textethan.com The way this works is like how a web browser works, all the code you will ever need is already in the binary, the JSON markup is just used to custom-construct your own app to your liking in realtime.
- yoz-y 10y ago
  What do you mean by extracted? Did those applications use something similar or did you collaborate with the creators?
  - gliechtenstein 10y ago
    No that's me. I'm Ethan, and I created that Ethan app. Jasonette was born out of my frustration with various aspects of working on the Ethan app. So that app (and all other apps I have created since) currently run on Jasonette. Sorry for the confusion with names.
cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
This doesn't download any binary code so I think it's fine
kejaed 10y ago
Yes it is. There was an SDK called TapLynx back in the day made by Brent Simmons of NewsGator and Innesential [0] fame. . It was $600 and a quick way to get an App released in the late App gold rush days with only an XML file. It was acquired by PushIO which was acquired by Oracle. Along the way the SDK stopped getting updates with new iOS versions and Apps stopped working. The yearly updates of the iOS SDK will impose a bunch of work on SDKs like this to keep up. A good model for open source. All the best to the author, might be a good model for a consulting gig around the open source SDK for sure. [0] http://inessential.com/ http://inessential.com/

mpweiher 10y ago

Instead of JSON, you could also consider sending XML markup. Oh wait, or maybe reuse an existing SGML/XML standard called...HTML. And then you could add scripting...

joelhaasnoot 10y ago
The problem with this is that there will always be some sort of disadvantage HTML5/hybrid/etc apps have over real native apps. Things like interaction, calendar integration, 3D graphics, etc, etc never work as well as they do as for native apps. In addition, if they do work on a technical level, Apple or Google may add an API tomorrow that either breaks, or you'll have to wait on the supplier of your HTML5 magic framework to add support, etc. If you want high quality, responsive UIs and apps, native is the way to go. For a simple app, I think this is a good idea - going to play around with it for some simple apps.
- derefr 10y ago
  You're assuming that choosing HTML as a format forces you to use all the associated web-platform goop to render it. In the end, HTML is just a standard for defining view element hierarchies; CSS is just a standard for specifying declarative layout constraints on those element hierarchies; and JavaScript is (supposed to be) just a standard for specifying how interactions with those views are bound to your view-controller. (The view-controller in a browser originally being an NPAPI <object> like a Java or ActiveX applet.) None of these standard formats has any particular tie to the way web browsers use them. The standards, of course, go beyond syntax, and also specify the HTML elements, CSS properties, and JS DOM that define "the web" as a platform. But it's perfectly possible to use HTML, CSS, and JS syntax—with standard parsers!—to power your own windowing toolkit. Define your windowing toolkit's view hierarchy format as "HTML syntax, but with these valid elements" (where they map to the controls in the toolkit.) Define your windowing toolkit's layout constraint properties format as "CSS but with these valid properties", where these map to the properties the toolkit exposes on the controls. And finally, drop-in a JS engine, but don't tell it to expose any APIs to the view to control things from Javascript; rather just mirror the API of the view-controller attached to the view as a set of opaque callback functions that can be hooked up to the elements of the view with addEventListener. XUL or XAML could have just been this. ePub is basically just this (though in some implementations a webview is used.) And, as a side-benefit, it becomes very easy to, like ePub, define your element and layout-constraint formats as supersets of HTML and CSS, such that people can still use familiar HTML elements and CSS properties for inline rich-text styling inside <label>s et al, while still using your toolkit's controls for everything else.

nhorob67 10y ago

Native app newbie here. Can this solution be used to present data tables?

mentos 10y ago

Really great stuff! What is the most advanced application you have created with this? What functionality do you think is still lacking? If you were to try to create a full featured app I imagine you'd find that working in Swift is the better option. What this reveals to me is that the App Store submission and update process is so time consuming you would rather write your logic in Json than in native Swift/ObjC. If Xcode let you instantaneously push app binary updates would this be as useful?

gliechtenstein 10y ago
There's an issue thread where we're discussing this: https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/4 https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/4
- mentos 10y ago
  My fear is that for most apps Jasonette will be too abstract and require lower level languages like Swift/ObjC to be more expressive. I think a good exercise would be to find a popular mobile app and recreate all of the functionality with Jasonette, developing missing features where you need them. A demo showing you recreate Tinder or iMessage by bolting a few pieces of logic together in Jasonette would go a long way in maturing the functionality and demonstrating its viability. Have you considered weaving Parse or Firebase into this?
  - gliechtenstein 10y ago
    Yup, try this https://jasonbase.com/things/zn1/edit https://jasonbase.com/things/zn1/edit
- mentos 10y ago
  The advantages of creating your own wysiwyg editor is that you can control exactly what functionality Jasonette supports and allow developers to create views across different platforms (right now Xcode is Mac only). But have you considered starting with Interface Builder and creating a tool to convert IB views to JSON? Interface Builder is home to a lot of developers who already understand how to use that tool, asking devs to work in a new half baked editor would probably be frustrating and add more complexity/moving parts which is your enemy as a new project/endeavor. If you create a tool that just converts IB views to JSON you can demonstrate progress much faster and learn and experiment with what the requirements of the final editor are. It will be much easier to stand up and way less effort than maintaining your own editor codebase while the project is young. Your time is the most valuable thing you have so don't spend it creating a new editor which could be its own project in itself. You want to put it towards expanding missing functionality between JSON and native components. One day when you find success and if you really still need to limit the user you can move all the functions you made for converting Interface Builder views into your own custom editor. I think first thing I would do is take a very complicated interface view from a native project and analyze the view hierarchy and report errors to the user like "Warning: Nested UITableViews are not supported in Jasonette", "UIButton delegate will be ignored", etc. Then once you create this sort of 'unit test' that the IB is well-formatted you can then go about exporting it to JSON. There may be a world where you actually are able to use all of the functionality of IB and don't ever have to have your own editor.

oliv__ 10y ago

Wow this is really impressive. If you had enough JSON-to-native "modules", basically anyone could write a native app in a few hours (since functionality in most apps is pretty much standard stuff)! Hell, if you pushed this further you could create an app store for code, letting you buy additional modules to plug into your app like lego.

ldjb 10y ago

This is a wonderful idea! Making app development faster and easier can only be a good thing. Now if only it were possible to place a generic version of this app on the App Store and allow users to load in the JSON for whatever app they want. Sadly I very much doubt Apple would allow it.

hex13 10y ago

Been there, done that. When I coded games, I made some simple JSON based file format and almost whole game was in form of JSON. I even implemented conditional and loops in JSON. But It can easy lead to inner platform effect. Not needed complexity. And in JSON you can't write JS code (needed for e.g. event handlers). So I switched to JS. Still data-driven approach (simple hierarchical objects with data), but with power of JS (and if you're use Babel, you could use JSX for your DSL). So: I don't think JSON is best format for what you try to achieve. It's just so limited. Besides what is added value of Jasonette? When I look on Jasonette I have feeling that it's just reinvents ReactJS but in JSON not JSX. Not sure if there is much profit with JSON format alone.

gliechtenstein 10y ago
https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/ https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/
- hex13 10y ago
  yeah, predefined actions for often used features is good (if you assure that it would be possible to add some custom JS action if needed), but frankly I think this project could be better (I mean, really better, it would be killer app), if you would go further and made visual editor for that. Some sort of modern WYSIWYG. Nobody wants to edit manually plain JSON files... But if editor could let you to make apps without code and generate/modify these JSONs for you, it would be nice. I think data-driven approach is huge win for that. It's all data after all. What is the problem? Creating visual editor is hard. Idea is obvious, but implementation, ux etc. is hard (I see sometimes visual editors for apps and most of it are sh*t).
  - gliechtenstein 10y ago
    Thanks for the feedback! We discuss that issue here: https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/4 https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/4 Please follow the project if you're interested in finding out where this goes :)
- 10y ago

felipeccastro 10y ago

This is very interesting, although JSON is not a very comfortable format to build manually - I think writing in YAML or CSON would be much cleaner to read/write, and easily converted to JSON. Also, any plans on building a UI for generating this JSON? If you have predefined components, you could make some sort of designer that builds the JSON for the user, that could turn into a commercial project I think.

SparkyMcUnicorn 10y ago
Transpilers should be pretty straight forward. Maybe even for HTML syntax.
- gliechtenstein 10y ago
  Yeah we were actually discussing whether we should support HJSON natively or not https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/5 https://github.com/Jasonette/JASONETTE-iOS/issues/5 But as for HTML, I decided to incorporate it natively because it's def worth it: https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/templates/#html https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/templates/#html
Edmond 10y ago
I have the perfect solution for this type of JSON configuration management, I wrote up a post on it: http://blog.crudzilla.com/2016/10/managing-configurations-with-object.html http://blog.crudzilla.com/2016/10/managing-configurations-wi... If you want to try the demo, send me an email (in my profile) and I will give you the login.

Kiro 10y ago

Looks cool but what kind of apps are you supposed to build with this?

amelius 10y ago

Is this HTML reinvented? :)

IshKebab 10y ago
Seems similar, but there are definitely advantages to this approach. HTML is crap for making apps.

ashish348 10y ago

how to make an app in 15 min | How to develop a mobile app free https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnsYachOafk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnsYachOafk

hatsunearu 10y ago
Didn't know Red Hat spams hacker news for some crappy mobile app thing!

ashish348 10y ago

Learn how to make an app in 15 min | How to develop a mobile app free Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnsYachOafk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnsYachOafk

devcorn 10y ago

Hey Buddy!, Great concept and smooth execution. Something for Android?

zupreme 10y ago

I'm at a restaurant reading this so I haven't had a chance to test it out yet but having reviewed the website I already see a massive use for this: Programmatic app building. This is an awesome idea. I can't wait to play with it.

blairanderson 10y ago

I would recommend adding documentation for shipping to the App Store. Even if it's as simple as "just build and submit".

djhworld 10y ago

The more I scrolled down this page the more impressed I got. What's the performance like? Does it handle switching views back and forth? Keep state?

gliechtenstein 10y ago
Thanks! I think the best way to see is to actually jump in and try it out. I tried my best to make the onboarding as seamless as possible, so normally it should take like 20 seconds from download to having the app on your phone (assuming you already have latest XCode installed) It does handle switching back and forth and everything else you would expect from a native app, because it is native (and not an emulation) :)

lpasselin 10y ago

Small detail I enjoyed from your website (on mobile, might be different for desktop) : header text positioned to the right of the screen (or content div). Position right is something we don't see often. This shows it is a great way to make your page easier to read.

gliechtenstein 10y ago
Thank you for noticing! :)

tzm 10y ago

Looks like a new name from jasonclient.org. Previously discussed 6 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11736817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11736817

gliechtenstein 10y ago
Yup I worked on open sourcing it for 6 months! This is the open source version of Jasonclient

swframe 10y ago

I've built similar platforms. Naturally, I think they are awesome. They are a core part of very valuable products like SAP, Salesforce, etc. You will get a lot of push back from high developers who prefer direct access to the native api or html. Please don't let them discourage you. My response to them is that they can build reusable components that are driven by your json layer (win-win). There are enough developers who will benefit. Try to get funding sooner than later. I waited too long. You can't keep up building this by yourself.

gliechtenstein 10y ago
Thank you for the advice! Honestly it means a lot!
- throwaway43 10y ago
  Don't listen to the haters. This is extremely valuable. Especially in E-commerce. Like when you have an ever expanding product line and new categories are being added all the time. Ever wondered why Amazon uses web views all over ? Many E-commerce companies would love to be able to do extensive A/B testing or add analytics on the fly but are crippled by the App store and the limitations of native apps. Some have even built versions of this themselves. What we need is an Android port of this and then this will be some hot shit. I am willing to help on the iOS side in any way I can.
  - gliechtenstein 10y ago
    Thank you! Please follow the project and join the Slack channel if you can :)
    - throwaway43 10y ago
      But my personal view is that we should support a syntax that is a subset or derivative of HTML while being performant so that any existing web framework can generate smooth native apps (while also side stepping Apples rules against implementing a browser engine :P). It sounds stupid but I work in E-commerce and have wished for this many times.

jzelinskie 10y ago

FWIW, the name is quite similar to https://github.com/google/jsonnet https://github.com/google/jsonnet

desireco42 10y ago

I know, it is too simple, people's head just exploded. Well, there seem to be great number of uses for this. I think this is excellent idea. Off to make an app... or two.

markbnj 10y ago

Well you do need to be a little bit of a programmer. You have loops in there, and evaluating properties of objects, etc. Interesting idea and it looks like you've done a nice job of it.

gliechtenstein 10y ago
I think I need to make some changes to the main screenshots, those are actually one of the most advanced features of Jasonette. You don't really need to use those templates at all. What those templates do is let you do advanced stuff like client-side rendering, dynamic data processing, etc. But you can build a full fledged app WITHOUT any of those advanced stuff. Watch the video on the website and you'll get it immediately!

robk 10y ago

This plus Huginn will be awesome for dynamic apps

babuskov 10y ago

I made something very similar in 2004. Instead of JSON, you would supply PHP arrays. The enabled to mix in some conditional code and make it more flexible for different usage patterns. We shipped a pretty big ERP application this way. I have since left the company, but the software still works on 200+ installations.

ing33k 10y ago

Congrats on the release ! this actually reminded me of a startup which lets you create a native app using API documentation ( swagger ). Edit : If I can find the bookmark, I will the link to that startup here.

achairapart 10y ago

What about Push Notifications? Are they supported somehow? Great project, by the way!

chaudhary27 10y ago

This is great. I am new to iOS and this seems very promising.

vvanders 10y ago

Very cool. For what it's worth most med-high profile games are built on similar techniques albeit at a larger scale. You're largely building tools and reusable components that let designers, artists and animators define behavior, look & feel. It goes by a couple different names but the most common one I see is "Content Driven Development". As you've noticed it has all sorts of benefits like fast iteration time, updates on the fly and ability to allow non-coders to bring in their perspectives to build experiences. Don't let the ivory tower haters get you down, it's a very powerful and valid approach in the appropriate domains.

gliechtenstein 10y ago
Thank you for the encouraging words!! { ˃̵̑ᴥ˂̵̑}b
- hakcermani 10y ago
  Taking this a step further, perhaps this can become a quick mock up tool ?

joshu 10y ago

Is there support for loading more pieces of the app on demand (so the server can generate them?)

gliechtenstein 10y ago
can you elaborate?

sintaxi 10y ago

This is really cool. Why not also support the web? With an Immutable store you could easily use react to display this app on the web without needing native install. Great job. Look forward to seeing where this goes.

ARothfusz 10y ago

How do app permissions work? Is there a way to make Jasonette request only the permissions needed by my JSON?

gliechtenstein 10y ago
what kind of app permissions?
- Implicated 10y ago
  Push notifications/camera/photo access and such?

yla92 10y ago

This is really great one. Shameless plug, we've built similar (but smaller) concept for the filter form of our apps[0] (cross platform, natively for Web, Android and iOS) mainly because we were tired of having to change the search filter form fields and logics in every app update. Now, we just have to change the configuration and the filter form changes instantly. [0]: web version can be found at - https://www.99.co/singapore/rent https://www.99.co/singapore/rent

anupshinde 10y ago

This looks very cool. And tempting at the first glance. As I read more of the documentation, I can't help stop comparing it with React-native for the rendering part. I remember somebody mentioning server-rendered mobile apps in one of the early react-native apps. This is pretty much achieving that. However, the comparison ends there. This is great! Its just too simple to make an app and probably when the app grows one could create a transpiler to generate this json

gliechtenstein 10y ago
Thanks! You'd be pleasantly surprised to learn what's coming up, please follow the project to stay in touch :)

Xeoncross 10y ago

Students (especially younger ones) often need more help seeing the light at the end of the learning tunnel. Something like this is a great start to teaching development and spurring them onto an actual language. I usually don't start with CSS let alone SCSS for websites, basic HTML shows them instant results for what they typed and gives them more endurance for the longer learning curve (but more power) provided by CSS.

ethaligan 10y ago

Never thought you could do that much with just JSON, this looks very promising for students or for fast prototyping.

yellowapple 10y ago

What would be the feasability of an Android port? I like the concept, but hate that it's for a platform that I refuse to touch with a ten-foot pole.

hyperpallium 10y ago

OK, this obviously looks like a web browser (native...) using json instead of (xml-like) html, though it's not good as a markup language. Interesting is having declarative templates on the client side, instead of server-side, for accessing json APIs. Of course you can do this in browsers (and it is done), but this is cleaner and simpler, being a fresh reinvention.

deleted 10y ago

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jwebb99 10y ago

Is is possible to include some kind rich text/html editor that can send data back to a server via JSON? Is it possible to send any user data back to a server with Jasonette?

jv22222 10y ago

Great Job. This is the next iteration of Titanium Appcelerator and Xamarin style apps (which basically do the same thing but internally).

ajhit406 10y ago

I found it interesting that the author has actually submitted the same idea 4 times to varying degrees of interest: https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=gliechtenstein https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=gliechtenstein It’s easy to forget that good ideas take a lot of time and iterations until they become magical. Great things do not happen overnight and without much sacrifice. The majority of people would give up the first time the community dismissed their prototype. Big props for not giving up.

v512 10y ago
Exactly my thought. You need a bit of luck along with good project to get viral on HN. Otherday I saw simple PDF memo generator got lots of traction while so many other cool apps didn't even surface up.

heavy_machinery 10y ago

This is awesome. Do you plan on releasing an Android version?

OOPMan 10y ago

Nice to see you getting so much positive feedback, here is some negative feedback balance it out: * How is this different from any of the other declarative app building systems that have, as yet, failed to take the world at large by storm? * Why JSON? I get it's universal but it's also annoying to write. Why didn't you consider YAML or , even better, HOCON? * Do you really think loop syntax in a declarative language is a good idea, because to me it always comes across as a nasty anti-pattern to get around the fact that declarative languages don't tend to handle this well? Otherwise, nice effort. Better than anything I've ever shown to the world :-)

emmanvazz 10y ago

This is awesome! I actually had this same idea and built a platform for non-technical people to have the ability to build native apps. We picked Xamarin.Forms as our mobile framework because that way we could target most of the mobile platforms and share as much code between those project. We also picked Drupal a CMS to give non-techies an easy framework to build things out. I am going to keep an eye on this project for some different ideas and maybe one day we can pick your brain with our idea/platform.

frostymarvelous 10y ago

Is anyone working on an Android port? I'd definitely want to give it a go. Haven't checked yet, but is there a spec for the json?

thecrazyone 10y ago

Android and web dev here, how would you compare this to nativescript and such? Instead of learning a new dsl, isn't web to native simpler? Unless you're developing a game I've never found native to be necessary. I'm one of those devs who moved from native to hybrid for faster development speed [edit] I really like how you're participating in the comments and how you reply. I really hope you do well, you seem like a nice person :-)

gliechtenstein 10y ago
Thank you! If you thought these JS based app development was fast, you're in for a real treat! Check out these apps I wrote as exercise: https://github.com/gliechtenstein/botlist.json https://github.com/gliechtenstein/botlist.json & https://github.com/gliechtenstein/kitty.json https://github.com/gliechtenstein/kitty.json I built these in around 15 minutes each, and you can too, once you get used to the markup you can too (which also is great since all you need to learn is the consistent JSON syntax which works for actions, view layouts, and styling. There is no real "environment setup" and "becoming a programmer" process that most people need to go through just to get anything running).

tomcam 10y ago

Late to the game--where does logic go? Looping? DB access? Would they be written in Objective C as actions?

tomcam 10y ago
OK, I missed that actions can be chained through an optional 'success' action: https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/#b-handling-another-actions-result https://jasonette.github.io/documentation/actions/#b-handlin...

niklaslogren 10y ago

This seems similar to what is used internally at AppSpotr[1] (disclaimer: I'm a former employee). They also use JSON to represent apps that can be rendered in iOS/Android clients. The difference is that apps must be built using a WYSIWYG editor rather than by editing the JSON directly. From my experience, a JSON representation works very well for a big percentage of all the apps out there, and you can often do without custom code. Good job creating this open-source version, it looks very expressive and useful! [1] https://www.appspotr.com/ https://www.appspotr.com/

jscholes 10y ago

This looks really interesting. How can you localise an app's UI when using this?

tomaskafka 10y ago
I immediately thought of backing this with a simple node.js server and using templating for this.

unlogic 10y ago

> "text": "{{$jason.find('#about h2').text().trim()}}" Yeah, you can only get so far being declarative. Miracles don't happen.

tomaskafka 10y ago

One use case: you have a game or app, and want to publish rich promo screens for new features or in game events. Even to old versions of clients. We once built a tiny in-house framework for this, based on Lua (game downloaded a package of Lua script and image resources and displayed the promo). If there was something ready to use (and multiplatform - at least android and ios), we could have saved quite some development time.

robk 10y ago

This is quite useful with a Huginn server setup to dynamically feed JSON out https://github.com/cantino/huginn https://github.com/cantino/huginn

mcudich 10y ago

Neat project! I've been working on something similar here: https://github.com/mcudich/TemplateKit https://github.com/mcudich/TemplateKit

srikz 10y ago

This is nice. I always wondered why something like this isn't available. I built a nested tab-bar menu system for an e-commerce app recently which can be generated from a json file.

reubano 10y ago

This is very cool! Do you have a spec to share? First thing i thought of is that it would be awesome to write webapp and static site generator implementations of the jason spec. Im in the process of making my own static site, and im storing as much of configuration and content as possible in json.

lewtds 10y ago

Congratulations! I think you have "discovered" QML, my favorite environment for rapid GUI development, incredibly intuitive. You may want to to look into that for inspiration.

macca321 10y ago

So what this is, is an IOS hypermedia (AKA true REST) client, for consuming APIs serving a custom (as opposed to generic) hypermedia format. The format itself is designed for a particular problem domain, namely outputting mobile-application specific controls and behaviours. It would be an interesting exercise to extract those aspects into a custom vocab for JSON-LD + Hydra (or Siren, or (insert) other generic hypermedia formats). http://www.markus-lanthaler.com/hydra/ http://www.markus-lanthaler.com/hydra/ It would also be interesting to have the hypermedia format defined as a schema somewhere.

mark_wong 10y ago

I tried building the instagram clone but get: Failed to create provisioning profile. The app ID "home.master.Instagram-UI-example.Jasonette.com.githubusercontent.raw" cannot be registered to your development team. Change your bundle identifier to a unique string to try again. Anyone knows whats up? I ran the setup and inputted 2 and supplied the URL from the Github..

mathiasrw 10y ago
The app ID is alreay in use. Change the string (add your name or something)

donjuanica 10y ago

Finally got around to trying this today and so far I'm super-impressed. Thank you for making this available to all. I've already built an app for our local Capoeira Studio. Took me about 90mins not knowing anything about Jasonette beforehand. Normally I probably would have spent 2-3 days on something similar. There is definitely a space for this type of project. There will always be dissenters and those who disagree with your approach - but as they say, you can't please all the people all the time. Thanks for your work.