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Still, hardware is, well, hard. Silicon Valley has produced a raft of world-changing software startups, from Airbnb (a YC veteran) to Facebook. But it's a whole

Still, hardware is, well, hard. Silicon Valley has produced a raft of world-changing software startups, from Airbnb (a YC veteran) to Facebook. But it's a whole lot easier to beta-test an app than to prototype and then manufacture a gadget with a bunch of moving parts. Then you have to market the thing to the masses, who are already enamored of their Apple and Samsung products. Exhibits A and B: Fitbit, the fitness tracking company, and GoPro, maker of rugged little cameras. This week, both cut their sales forecasts for the crucial holiday quarter and watched their shares plunge. (Neither started life at YC.) Fitbit and GoPro's downturn is mostly fueled by mismanagement and poor decisions than hardware being intrinsically hard. The hard part of hardware is building something that works well enough and is in demand. When you have your device on people's wrist or mounted on their helmet, you have overcome the "hardware is hard" part. (for the most part). After that it's building on your original success, expanding your market and creating value for your customers; all of which are true for any other business, not strictly hardware. For fitbit and GoPro, the latter has proven more difficult.

wheelerwj 10y ago
But just to be clear, hardware IS hard.
- samstave 10y ago
  Aside: Shoot - this wants me to make a "front fell off" joke... but HN hates jokes.
  - exolymph 10y ago
    As evidenced by you getting downvoted. Oh, HN, I would say "never change" but I already don't expect you to.
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    Personally I don't mind some jokes here but I can't see what the joke is you're trying to make. If it was a clearly funny comment it perhaps wouldn't fair as badly.
    - evv 10y ago
      Its a reference to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
      - gadders 10y ago
        That's pretty funny.
      - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
        Which is funny to me, but the parent might as well have been referencing something their mate told them; how much of the global audience on HN knows that skit. Anyway, we're well OT.
- kylec 10y ago
  Yeah. Anyone remember WakeMate? They had nonstop problems with their hardware. And Lockitron had yield issues for two years on their deadbolt operating robot before cancelling it. Hardware is hard.
CydeWeys 10y ago
I don't know abut GoPro, but Fitbit deserves to fail. Their hardware is terrible. The warranty only lasts one year, yet I've had to replace both Fitbit devices I've had twice within that one year. I'm now Fitbit-less because the latest, a Charge HR, failed for the third time, and it's now out of that one year warranty. To give you an idea of how bad the Charge HR is, its charging plug attaches with metal prongs, but it plugs into a slim plastic housing that is only glued to the rest of the device. The obvious result is that the plastic housing eventually gets pulled off with the plug. That's how two of my three Charge HRs have died. It'd be like if your laptop were ruined within four months because the power cable pulled off an essential piece of the laptop housing rather than detaching cleanly, and now it won't attach in order to charge. The third Charge HR bricked itself during an unprompted firmware update, which started randomly and then I guess got interrupted midway through when I moved my phone too far from the device. It never recovered. I don't know what the hell they're optimizing for over at Fitbit HQ, but they're trying to sell $10 throw-away quality devices for >$100. It's outrageous. I actively discourage everyone I know from ever buying anything from them, and many other people I know have also completely sworn them off for the same reason. Their product just sucks.
- jacalata 10y ago
  The plastic housing failure is how my Charge HR died :(
- rezashirazian 10y ago
  My wife was an avid Fitbit fan a few years ago. Unfortunately her device failed after a few months, and the replacement a few weeks later. Her tone regarding the company is very much in line with what you've posted.
- CydeWeys 10y ago
  I forgot to write my conclusion because I got so livid and carried away about how much Fitbits suck, so here it is: I don't think Fitbit's troubles are necessarily an indictment of the hardware industry as a whole. I think they're particular to that company having a horrible product and horrible hardware engineering, to the point where poor build quality actively repulses users rather than creating repeat customers. GoPro similarly has lots of issues that I've heard from others, but I don't have first-hand experience like I do with Fitbit so I won't spend any further time on it. Contrast with, say, Apple, which is still a hardware company more so than it is anything else, and has become the largest publicly traded company in the world by doing so. I'm not a huge Apple fan by any means, but at least the devices don't suffer from such horrible flaws. My next laptop might not be another Macbook Pro, but it's at least in the running as an option because I've liked the one I currently have. Fitbit does not have that same charity from me.
dmritard96 10y ago
we build hardware (flair.co) and have just started shipping (woot!) and I think the trick with hardware is figuring out how to do the 'software wrapped in plastic'. If goPro was quicker to move into video storage and editing to go with their cameras or fitbit managed to push on fda approval and share data with your doctor (or their own doctors as a service) they could do some really cool stuff (and have really cool revenue...). Its not that as a stand alone product its not compelling - reminder, they IPOd... Looking at them and calling them failures is such a myopic perspective if you talk to any preseed, seed or A stage company. The trick is building a killer product and not worrying about the service if you can. Then transition over to a service model, selling leads, data, tools etc. If you can layer on services early on, thats fine, but not needed. If you never do it, it will come back to bite as challengers show up and erode margins and you saturate your 'ideal customer' market.
brudgers 10y ago
Based on some analysis I've read, GoPro's growth is somewhat limited by market saturation: a significant proportion of the people who are likely to be enthusiastic action camera users already have an action camera.

wheelerwj 10y ago

But just to be clear, hardware IS hard.

samstave 10y ago
Aside: Shoot - this wants me to make a "front fell off" joke... but HN hates jokes.
- exolymph 10y ago
  As evidenced by you getting downvoted. Oh, HN, I would say "never change" but I already don't expect you to.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  Personally I don't mind some jokes here but I can't see what the joke is you're trying to make. If it was a clearly funny comment it perhaps wouldn't fair as badly.
  - evv 10y ago
    Its a reference to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
    - gadders 10y ago
      That's pretty funny.
    - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
      Which is funny to me, but the parent might as well have been referencing something their mate told them; how much of the global audience on HN knows that skit. Anyway, we're well OT.
kylec 10y ago
Yeah. Anyone remember WakeMate? They had nonstop problems with their hardware. And Lockitron had yield issues for two years on their deadbolt operating robot before cancelling it. Hardware is hard.

CydeWeys 10y ago

I don't know abut GoPro, but Fitbit deserves to fail. Their hardware is terrible. The warranty only lasts one year, yet I've had to replace both Fitbit devices I've had twice within that one year. I'm now Fitbit-less because the latest, a Charge HR, failed for the third time, and it's now out of that one year warranty. To give you an idea of how bad the Charge HR is, its charging plug attaches with metal prongs, but it plugs into a slim plastic housing that is only glued to the rest of the device. The obvious result is that the plastic housing eventually gets pulled off with the plug. That's how two of my three Charge HRs have died. It'd be like if your laptop were ruined within four months because the power cable pulled off an essential piece of the laptop housing rather than detaching cleanly, and now it won't attach in order to charge. The third Charge HR bricked itself during an unprompted firmware update, which started randomly and then I guess got interrupted midway through when I moved my phone too far from the device. It never recovered. I don't know what the hell they're optimizing for over at Fitbit HQ, but they're trying to sell $10 throw-away quality devices for >$100. It's outrageous. I actively discourage everyone I know from ever buying anything from them, and many other people I know have also completely sworn them off for the same reason. Their product just sucks.

jacalata 10y ago
The plastic housing failure is how my Charge HR died :(
rezashirazian 10y ago
My wife was an avid Fitbit fan a few years ago. Unfortunately her device failed after a few months, and the replacement a few weeks later. Her tone regarding the company is very much in line with what you've posted.
CydeWeys 10y ago
I forgot to write my conclusion because I got so livid and carried away about how much Fitbits suck, so here it is: I don't think Fitbit's troubles are necessarily an indictment of the hardware industry as a whole. I think they're particular to that company having a horrible product and horrible hardware engineering, to the point where poor build quality actively repulses users rather than creating repeat customers. GoPro similarly has lots of issues that I've heard from others, but I don't have first-hand experience like I do with Fitbit so I won't spend any further time on it. Contrast with, say, Apple, which is still a hardware company more so than it is anything else, and has become the largest publicly traded company in the world by doing so. I'm not a huge Apple fan by any means, but at least the devices don't suffer from such horrible flaws. My next laptop might not be another Macbook Pro, but it's at least in the running as an option because I've liked the one I currently have. Fitbit does not have that same charity from me.

dmritard96 10y ago

we build hardware (flair.co) and have just started shipping (woot!) and I think the trick with hardware is figuring out how to do the 'software wrapped in plastic'. If goPro was quicker to move into video storage and editing to go with their cameras or fitbit managed to push on fda approval and share data with your doctor (or their own doctors as a service) they could do some really cool stuff (and have really cool revenue...). Its not that as a stand alone product its not compelling - reminder, they IPOd... Looking at them and calling them failures is such a myopic perspective if you talk to any preseed, seed or A stage company. The trick is building a killer product and not worrying about the service if you can. Then transition over to a service model, selling leads, data, tools etc. If you can layer on services early on, thats fine, but not needed. If you never do it, it will come back to bite as challengers show up and erode margins and you saturate your 'ideal customer' market.

brudgers 10y ago

Based on some analysis I've read, GoPro's growth is somewhat limited by market saturation: a significant proportion of the people who are likely to be enthusiastic action camera users already have an action camera.