7 ms·

I was excited to see this but this game is crazy partisan and does nothing but to further divide us.

by ones_and_zeros 10y ago

Pigo 10y ago
I played all three to see if they tried to show other perspectives, but no. It's just a hit piece.
- noer 10y ago
  It's an opinion piece and says as much in the intro.
  - Pigo 10y ago
    Oh I missed that, thanks for the heads up though. I'm not sure why, but I really thought it would be more of game with some actual insight instead of "isn't Trump a bully".
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      It's not about Donald Trump but about a systematic, multi-year effort by the Republican Party to make it harder for likely Democratic voters to vote.
- mtanski 10y ago
  What are the other perspectives you speak of? The massive voter fraud by dead people, illegals and people voting multiple times? You know, that's been debunked by countless sources actually doing the investigative work to find voter fraud.
  - travmatt 10y ago
    """ “You didn’t hear about fraud in North Carolina until blacks started voting in large numbers,” said Barber, who has also led a series of large protests against the law. “Then all of a sudden, there’s a problem with how people are voting.” “People keep asking, ‘When they passed this law, were they racist in their heart?’ It doesn’t matter,” he added. “You look at the heart of their policies. If I tell you this law is going to affect black people more than anyone else, and you still go ahead and do it, you yourself are making clear exactly what you are.” Longtime Republican consultant Carter Wrenn, a fixture in North Carolina politics, said the GOP’s voter fraud argument is nothing more than an excuse. “Of course it’s political. Why else would you do it?” he said, explaining that Republicans, like any political party, want to protect their majority. While GOP lawmakers might have passed the law to suppress some voters, Wrenn said, that does not mean it was racist. “Look, if African Americans voted overwhelmingly Republican, they would have kept early voting right where it was,” Wrenn said. “It wasn’t about discriminating against African Americans. They just ended up in the middle of it because they vote Democrat.” Barber, though, argued that Republicans are playing with words. """ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-the-republican-creation-of-the-north-carolina-voting-bill-dubbed-the-monster-law/2016/09/01/79162398-6adf-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-th...
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      There's a reason the VRA protections abolished by the Supreme Court focused on racial effect rather than intent.
frostburg 10y ago
It's not like voter suppression of vulnerable groups is a tactic that can work at the same time for both of your major parties. This "golden mean" line of reasoning is not worth much.
- nomoreaccoubts 10y ago
  The reasoning on the other side is that you should do something to ensure the integrity of your elections. What stops non-citizens from voting? It's telling that the party opposed to voter verification laws stands to gain from the potential votes of tens of millions of illegal residents. As far as I know, no one is checking outside of states with voter ID laws.
  - travmatt 10y ago
    >As far as I know, no one is checking outside of states with voter ID laws "A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast"[0] Seems like a pretty comprehensive check if you ask me. [0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-com...
    - nomoreaccoubts 10y ago
      That article is referring to voter impersonation. What's to stop an illegal voter from simply voting under their own name and checking the box that says they are a US citizen? I'm genuinely curious. Is there any verification of citizenship in non-ID states?
      - travmatt 10y ago
        Each state handles voter registration differently, although most ask for some proof of citizenship at some point. Also: """ Election fraud happens. But ID laws are not aimed at the fraud you’ll actually hear about. Most current ID laws (Wisconsin is a rare exception) aren’t designed to stop fraud with absentee ballots (indeed, laws requiring ID at the polls push more people into the absentee system, where there are plenty of real dangers). Or vote buying. Or coercion. Or fake registration forms. Or voting from the wrong address. Or ballot box stuffing by officials in on the scam. In the 243-page document that Mississippi State Sen. Chris McDaniel filed on Monday with evidence of allegedly illegal votes in the Mississippi Republican primary, there were no allegations of the kind of fraud that ID can stop. Instead, requirements to show ID at the polls are designed for pretty much one thing: people showing up at the polls pretending to be somebody else in order to each cast one incremental fake ballot. This is a slow, clunky way to steal an election. Which is why it rarely happens. """ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-com...
carrier_lost 10y ago
It's in the Opinion section. It's not supposed to be an objective presentation; it's there to make a point.
- AdamN 10y ago
  It shouldn't have the NYTimes logo and it should be op-ed, not opinion in that case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op-ed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op-ed
travmatt 10y ago
Is it factually accurate? Is it giving a full picture of voter suppression, or do you believe that Democrats engage in the practice and this fact is being omitted? IMO complaining about partisanship is just dodging a conversation on the merits, if in fact the objective truth is partisan. Back when Republicans were the Party of Lincoln it would have been both factual and partisan of me to say they were the political party of abolition, and the Democrats were the party of plantation owners.
- ones_and_zeros 10y ago
  The DNC are no saints[0]. "Others complained about long lines, shuttered polling locations and inexperienced polling-place employees. Entire blocks and buildings of voters in some districts were purged from the voter rolls, de Blasio said." [0] http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/officials-investigating-why-126000-voters-were-purged-from-ny-rolls/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/officials-investigating-...
  - lambda 10y ago
    That's not the DNC, that's the New York Board of Elections. The DNC doesn't run the actual voting of the primaries, that's done by the local election commissions, just like for the general elections. This varies by state, it's generally the state parties that decide how primaries are run in their state, not the DNC.
  - travmatt 10y ago
    I can't tell if you're alleging something or simply raising some spectre of bad behavior as proof of some type of equivalency. If you are alleging something, your theory runs into some problems: 1. The DNC doesn't run the elections, as another commenter posited. 2. The voters who were purged were disproportionately Spanish, and minority & Spanish voters have disproportionately voted for Clinton and against Sanders [0]. Are you suggesting that the DNC secretly coordinated with an outside body to purge voters to hurt their presumptive nominee? Personally, I tend to assume bureaucratic incompetency quicker than I do a conspiracy. In any case, to avoid a false equivalency, these are the facts: Democrats may be associated with a voter purge (itself a legal and routine occurrence) which took some voters out of rolls who, based on their demographics, broke disproportionately for their nominee. Republicans have mounted a coordinated and sustained assault on the franchisement of minorities in America. This includes the encouragement of voter intimidation, and: """ A review of these documents shows that North Carolina GOP leaders launched a meticulous and coordinated effort to deter black voters, who overwhelmingly vote for Democrats. The law, created and passed entirely by white legislators, evoked the state’s ugly history of blocking African Americans from voting — practices that had taken a civil rights movement and extensive federal intervention to stop. Last month, a three-judge federal appeals panel struck down the North Carolina law, calling it “the most restrictive voting law North Carolina has seen since the era of Jim Crow.” Drawing from the emails and other evidence, the 83-page ruling charged that Republican lawmakers had targeted “African Americans with almost surgical precision.” """[1] [0]http://time.com/4301762/new-york-voting-problems-hillary-clinton/ http://time.com/4301762/new-york-voting-problems-hillary-cli... [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-the-republican-creation-of-the-north-carolina-voting-bill-dubbed-the-monster-law/2016/09/01/79162398-6adf-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-th...
chickenfries 10y ago
It literally calls itself an op-ed in the intro.
emodendroket 10y ago
What do you want? So is carping about "voter fraud" and requiring IDs.

I was excited to see this but this game is crazy partisan and does nothing but to further divide us.

Pigo 10y ago

I played all three to see if they tried to show other perspectives, but no. It's just a hit piece.

noer 10y ago
It's an opinion piece and says as much in the intro.
- Pigo 10y ago
  Oh I missed that, thanks for the heads up though. I'm not sure why, but I really thought it would be more of game with some actual insight instead of "isn't Trump a bully".
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    It's not about Donald Trump but about a systematic, multi-year effort by the Republican Party to make it harder for likely Democratic voters to vote.
mtanski 10y ago
What are the other perspectives you speak of? The massive voter fraud by dead people, illegals and people voting multiple times? You know, that's been debunked by countless sources actually doing the investigative work to find voter fraud.
- travmatt 10y ago
  """ “You didn’t hear about fraud in North Carolina until blacks started voting in large numbers,” said Barber, who has also led a series of large protests against the law. “Then all of a sudden, there’s a problem with how people are voting.” “People keep asking, ‘When they passed this law, were they racist in their heart?’ It doesn’t matter,” he added. “You look at the heart of their policies. If I tell you this law is going to affect black people more than anyone else, and you still go ahead and do it, you yourself are making clear exactly what you are.” Longtime Republican consultant Carter Wrenn, a fixture in North Carolina politics, said the GOP’s voter fraud argument is nothing more than an excuse. “Of course it’s political. Why else would you do it?” he said, explaining that Republicans, like any political party, want to protect their majority. While GOP lawmakers might have passed the law to suppress some voters, Wrenn said, that does not mean it was racist. “Look, if African Americans voted overwhelmingly Republican, they would have kept early voting right where it was,” Wrenn said. “It wasn’t about discriminating against African Americans. They just ended up in the middle of it because they vote Democrat.” Barber, though, argued that Republicans are playing with words. """ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-the-republican-creation-of-the-north-carolina-voting-bill-dubbed-the-monster-law/2016/09/01/79162398-6adf-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-th...
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    There's a reason the VRA protections abolished by the Supreme Court focused on racial effect rather than intent.

frostburg 10y ago

It's not like voter suppression of vulnerable groups is a tactic that can work at the same time for both of your major parties. This "golden mean" line of reasoning is not worth much.

nomoreaccoubts 10y ago
The reasoning on the other side is that you should do something to ensure the integrity of your elections. What stops non-citizens from voting? It's telling that the party opposed to voter verification laws stands to gain from the potential votes of tens of millions of illegal residents. As far as I know, no one is checking outside of states with voter ID laws.
- travmatt 10y ago
  >As far as I know, no one is checking outside of states with voter ID laws "A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast"[0] Seems like a pretty comprehensive check if you ask me. [0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-com...
  - nomoreaccoubts 10y ago
    That article is referring to voter impersonation. What's to stop an illegal voter from simply voting under their own name and checking the box that says they are a US citizen? I'm genuinely curious. Is there any verification of citizenship in non-ID states?
    - travmatt 10y ago
      Each state handles voter registration differently, although most ask for some proof of citizenship at some point. Also: """ Election fraud happens. But ID laws are not aimed at the fraud you’ll actually hear about. Most current ID laws (Wisconsin is a rare exception) aren’t designed to stop fraud with absentee ballots (indeed, laws requiring ID at the polls push more people into the absentee system, where there are plenty of real dangers). Or vote buying. Or coercion. Or fake registration forms. Or voting from the wrong address. Or ballot box stuffing by officials in on the scam. In the 243-page document that Mississippi State Sen. Chris McDaniel filed on Monday with evidence of allegedly illegal votes in the Mississippi Republican primary, there were no allegations of the kind of fraud that ID can stop. Instead, requirements to show ID at the polls are designed for pretty much one thing: people showing up at the polls pretending to be somebody else in order to each cast one incremental fake ballot. This is a slow, clunky way to steal an election. Which is why it rarely happens. """ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-com...

carrier_lost 10y ago

It's in the Opinion section. It's not supposed to be an objective presentation; it's there to make a point.

AdamN 10y ago
It shouldn't have the NYTimes logo and it should be op-ed, not opinion in that case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op-ed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op-ed

travmatt 10y ago

Is it factually accurate? Is it giving a full picture of voter suppression, or do you believe that Democrats engage in the practice and this fact is being omitted? IMO complaining about partisanship is just dodging a conversation on the merits, if in fact the objective truth is partisan. Back when Republicans were the Party of Lincoln it would have been both factual and partisan of me to say they were the political party of abolition, and the Democrats were the party of plantation owners.

ones_and_zeros 10y ago
The DNC are no saints[0]. "Others complained about long lines, shuttered polling locations and inexperienced polling-place employees. Entire blocks and buildings of voters in some districts were purged from the voter rolls, de Blasio said." [0] http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/officials-investigating-why-126000-voters-were-purged-from-ny-rolls/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/officials-investigating-...
- lambda 10y ago
  That's not the DNC, that's the New York Board of Elections. The DNC doesn't run the actual voting of the primaries, that's done by the local election commissions, just like for the general elections. This varies by state, it's generally the state parties that decide how primaries are run in their state, not the DNC.
- travmatt 10y ago
  I can't tell if you're alleging something or simply raising some spectre of bad behavior as proof of some type of equivalency. If you are alleging something, your theory runs into some problems: 1. The DNC doesn't run the elections, as another commenter posited. 2. The voters who were purged were disproportionately Spanish, and minority & Spanish voters have disproportionately voted for Clinton and against Sanders [0]. Are you suggesting that the DNC secretly coordinated with an outside body to purge voters to hurt their presumptive nominee? Personally, I tend to assume bureaucratic incompetency quicker than I do a conspiracy. In any case, to avoid a false equivalency, these are the facts: Democrats may be associated with a voter purge (itself a legal and routine occurrence) which took some voters out of rolls who, based on their demographics, broke disproportionately for their nominee. Republicans have mounted a coordinated and sustained assault on the franchisement of minorities in America. This includes the encouragement of voter intimidation, and: """ A review of these documents shows that North Carolina GOP leaders launched a meticulous and coordinated effort to deter black voters, who overwhelmingly vote for Democrats. The law, created and passed entirely by white legislators, evoked the state’s ugly history of blocking African Americans from voting — practices that had taken a civil rights movement and extensive federal intervention to stop. Last month, a three-judge federal appeals panel struck down the North Carolina law, calling it “the most restrictive voting law North Carolina has seen since the era of Jim Crow.” Drawing from the emails and other evidence, the 83-page ruling charged that Republican lawmakers had targeted “African Americans with almost surgical precision.” """[1] [0]http://time.com/4301762/new-york-voting-problems-hillary-clinton/ http://time.com/4301762/new-york-voting-problems-hillary-cli... [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-the-republican-creation-of-the-north-carolina-voting-bill-dubbed-the-monster-law/2016/09/01/79162398-6adf-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-th...

chickenfries 10y ago

It literally calls itself an op-ed in the intro.

emodendroket 10y ago

What do you want? So is carping about "voter fraud" and requiring IDs.