11 ms·

Asus to surpass Apple in notebook sales: TrendForce

66 points by yuhong 10y ago

nihonde 10y ago
When are these publications going to figure out that volume shipped vs Apple is a pointless milestone? I'm interested in margins and revenues, but not units shipped.
- bryanlarsen 10y ago
  As an Apple shareholder I care about revenues, but as a user and software dev, the metric that really matters is ecosystem size.
  - acdha 10y ago
    You usually need more detail than that because the ecosystem isn't uniform: if you sell games it doesn't matter that 200M people have a mid-range Windows PC at work; if you sell professional software the $400 laptop owner segment is probably irrelevant; someone who works on public websites or education has to support almost everything to avoid lawsuits, etc.
- dingaling 10y ago
  > I'm interested in margins and revenues, but not units shipped. In that case Panasonic's Toughbooks would be the clear winner in the general-market space. Their low-end 'business rugged' laptops start at £1800 for an i5 spec... though with a three-year warranty. Once you move into specialist fields such as mediical and defence there are vendors whose laptops have margins that would make Apple cry, but who 'earn' those through jumping through many many regulatory hoops. Dell played-around in that space in the late 2000s, their mil-cert laptops started around $5000 with standard Latitude innards.
  - protomyth 10y ago
    > but who 'earn' those through jumping through many many regulatory hoops They also earn it by knowing that those niches are willing to pay and normal computers can be problematic to an outright danger[1]. If you happen to have an employee that is a bit "rough" with their notebook and is a Windows user, a Panasonic Toughbook is a great buy. They are built like tanks and Panasonic knows their users. Also, if you have a dust or grain dust[2] environment, you most definitely should buy medical computers. We have a carpentry area that needs computers and the sealed medical computers are perfect. I use http://www.cybernetman.com http://www.cybernetman.com because I like the reps. 1) having a sealed computer that you can wipe down with Lysol is an amazing benefit for a hospital setting. 2) do not f around with normal computers in a grain dust environment unless you like fires and explosions. You want to take precautions to get proper clean airflow or use sealed computers.
- SamUK96 10y ago
  True. Apple makes a disgustingly large margin on each, so I suppose less volume doesn't neccessarily mean less revenue. Having said that, decreasing volume, something which is now never-ending for Apple in the last few quarters, consecutively, is a marker for doom, or at least the end of life of the product line. When you're selling less and less, you can't keep revenues up by just increasing the margin on each unit forever. It's unsustainable and unstable.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  These publication rely on getting people to actually read their content. Of course they'll always write articles like this.
  - tunap 10y ago
    Exactly my thought seeing( not reading) the ubiquitous "MS is the new Apple" articles of late. edit: early morning post needed clarity.
- pawadu 10y ago
  Because ASUS used to be pretty big before the post-PC dip. This only shows that they are regaining lost ground (or Apple is having problems, take your pick). Also as an ordinary person why would you be interested "margins and revenues"?
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s_kilk 10y ago
Are there any Asus laptops which work painlessly with Linux?
- lossolo 10y ago
  Asus zenbook works without any problems with Ubuntu 16.04 for me.
- akvar 10y ago
  I run Ubuntu 16.04.1 (no Windows partition) on an Asus X555 (8GB RAM, 120GB SSD). Works extremely smooth. I've also used the same setup on a Transformer series notebook and have had no issues at all. It's honestly been my best notebook experience - having used Acer & Lenovo before (not that those notebooks were bad)
  - s_kilk 10y ago
    Thanks! :) How easy was the installation? Any crazy stunts to get it all working?
    - akvar 10y ago
      Nope. Simply installed from a USB drive. Of course, there's a little effort if you want a Windows partition, but that has been documented / blogged about ad nauseam, so shouldn't be too difficult.
- jeswin 10y ago
  I have the UX360CA and UX501VW. The fanless Core-Y UX360CA never had any issues, works out of the box. UX501VW has fan control issues with 16.04, which you can solve by installing a newer kernel (4.8 series) or by upgrading to 16.10. You must do this, otherwise the fan will run at loud, insane speeds and might eventually wear out. NVidia graphics will work without issues, but switchable graphics doesn't work via NVidia's control panel. I don't need the discrete GPU, so I'm exclusively using Intel drivers. Driver does crash (screen flickers) at times with my external 4k monitor. Apart from that, Powertop takes care of Power management issues. Overall, expect to spend 3-4 hours getting UX501VW set up.
wineisfine 10y ago
If you read all the comments here, nobody seams really 100% happy with their laptop. And apple really blew it.
agentgt 10y ago
Last year I finally switched to mac for work (I had family mac air). Before that I always used thinkpads. I still think the 15" T60 was one of the best computers I have owned. I would have stayed with it if I could upgrade 16gb (ahh Java development). The new thinkpads are bad. I'm sort of annoyed that I finally got used to mac and it is now down a path of crap (love the form factor... hate the Mac UI and no upgrade).
- positivecomment 10y ago
  > it is now down a path of crap People always said Apple evokes feelings. Now it seems obvious that it goes both ways. I acknowledge that it is impossible to be objective on this issue (different use cases, different people, different habits and so on) but saying that they are on a "path of crap" is too strong for most of the time, I bet. I haven't ever used any Apple product, so it's just a somewhat external observation.
  - agentgt 10y ago
    Yes the comment was probably too harsh (I'm on the phone so it is harder to be tactful). Crap is also not very descriptive.
- TheCowboy 10y ago
  I went from a T60P to a W520 (used) a year and a half ago, because the lack of ram was a strain. W520 is the last Thinkpad with the "retro" keyboard, and officially supports 16gb of memory but unofficially supports 32gb. Though it's quite heavy and not the most energy efficient, I have been quite happy with it for my needs.
- shuntress 10y ago
  I have a new T450 for work and at home a new X1 Carbon (which they call a thinkpad). Both are excellent. Maybe not as good as older thinkpads, but I think it's quite a stretch to call all new thinkpads bad.
- madenine 10y ago
  I wouldn't discount the ThinkPads so quickly. I use a T460s for work - its a great machine. I prefer it to my 2013 MBP.
hellofunk 10y ago
I think part of the recent sentiment towards Apple is due to the expectations game. If it had been a different company, like Asus, to introduce a very thin, very lightweight computer with excellent graphics and a touch strip, I think a lot of people would be thinking, "wow! Asus is really innovating! what a useful little machine!". But because it is Apple, the expectations go far beyond that of any other company, so the probability of disappointment is very high.
- Eridrus 10y ago
  It's not just the expectations, Apple's price tags demand innovation. If they're not doing anything special you can get much cheaper hardware.
  - hellofunk 10y ago
    I'm curious if, beyond innovative features, the actual build quality and battery life of a machine should command higher prices. I had a couple Windows laptops (one by Dell) with quite poor battery life. My MacBook Pro from 2011 goes all day with serious activity without a charge, sometimes 2 days. I don't discredit the disappointment in the recent Apple laptop announcements, but I do think that paying a premium price for a genuinely solid machine is reasonable, even if that machine doesn't have a rapid change in features. I've never had any other laptop last over 5 years without any major problems. And it is also hard for me to deny that after lugging around a heavier laptop for awhile, having a light Macbook Pro definitely is easier when on the go.
    - jerf 10y ago
      "... should command higher prices. I had a couple Windows laptops (one by Dell) with quite poor battery life." You don't say, but, were they higher-end Dell laptops or not? I've got an 6-year-old Dell Studio 17 still going strong, which cost about $1,000 when I bought it. I recently replaced it solely because I've learned that waiting until a machine is completely dead to replace it produces stress, when you end up having to go to Best Buy or equivalent and just buy whatever they may happen to have lying around, which is not what I'm looking for. The battery lasts about 10 minutes tops right now but I never bought it for its battery life anyhow. It's in pretty good shape for 6 years old. The screen's doing something weird with diagonal streaks developing in the top and bottom, but it's still perfectly usable at the moment. On the other hand, the bottom-of-the-line Dell stuff is crap I'd hardly expect to last two years. It depends on what you buy.
SamUK96 10y ago
To be honest, the zenbook line has been a big hit. Good value and very sexy. Wish I had enough money for the UX390UA. It's basically faster, thinner, lighter, sexier Dell XPS...
- pawadu 10y ago
  second that, UX390UA (aka zenbook 3) not only looks sexy it also packs incredible power (core KL i7) in a tiny body. Be sure to watch Lisa's comparison with the 12" macbook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhoAACXWNHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhoAACXWNHU
- BoorishBears 10y ago
  I have its predecessor, the 303UB and on paper it's great, but it's not as nice as I expected. The 4K screen has a "faux 4K" pentile-like layout so smaller text and any type of thin line look horrid on Windows and stock Ubuntu (I Hackintoshed it for better multi monitor support and OSX anti-aliasing looks much better, making me wonder if Retinas have the same type of "faux 4K") The screen also has the same horrible yellow tint defect as several other 13" 4K models I looked at. The touch screen has a layer above the screen that becomes really noticeable in certain light (Bot that the touch screen is really of any use on a non-transforming laptop). The list goes on.
  - SamUK96 10y ago
    Isn't that the line with the Core M chips? They were a travesty for Windows 10. ~1000p on Passmark lol. Compare to an i7 6500U CPU, which has ~4500. TBH, 4K laptop screens are a total scam.
    - BoorishBears 10y ago
      It's a i7 6xxxU (I don't remember the exact model off hand but I'd guess it's the 6500) with a GTX 940M... Hi-Dpi support was so shoddy with multiple monitors on Windows and Linux that I sacrificed access to the 940M to Hackintosh it
- 10y ago
aq3cn 10y ago
Quality wise who is better and reliable as a Windows or Linux machine manufacturer. Help me create a sequence: 1. Razer 2. Asus 3. Microsoft 4. Dell 5. Lenovo 6. HP 7. Acer 8. Sony (?) 9. Samsung Apple (?) Clevo (?) Toshiba (?) system76 (?) alienware (?)
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  Lenovo ideapad (cheap ones, superfish, avoid) and Lenovo Thinkpad (no superfish, mostly good) should be thought separate manufacturers. They're not comparable. For quality and reliability. This is astonishingly subjective and quite probably wrong :p 1. Thinkpad. Not as good as they were, but appear to be trying to improve again. Usually a fairly safe bet for BSD & Linux drivers. Support (UK) have been excellent. 2. Dell 2. HP (Like with Lenovo separate the cheap consumer crap, and the well made professional ranges) 3. The rest 4. Apple. Well made, hopeless for upgrade, now very overpriced. New keyboard seems to be disliked on reviews so far. 99. Acer - Pet hate brand that always seems to have far more than fair share of issues, and support (UK) terrible. No experience of clevo or system76. Not sure MS have been around long enough with Surface to judge well yet. Personally I would be wary of Razer, though I've not owned a laptop of theirs, which might be superb. None of their mice and keyboards seem to last 5 minutes. Santa will bring the kids no more Razer Nagas.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    I've had three Thinkpads in two years (T440, two T450s). Their build quality is okay by PC standards, not great. The keyboard deck is warped on my work T450s. The screen was shit on my T440. The screen is shit with bad backlight bleed and low maximum brightness on both T450s. EDIT: Oh I forgot about the absolute ton of crapware on the machine out of box.
    - anexprogrammer 10y ago
      A surprise. I always felt screens have been one of their best features, with great consistency and brightness so far. I'm looking to replace at the moment, and t460 t560 are shortlisted along with dell and HP. So now I'm clueless again. :p Don't like the 6 row chiclet keyboard, sound is garbage on recent machines I've had, don't seem as resilient, and not the same attention to detail. Crapware? Access Connections (Adobe Air made it slow junk), warranty/help/update thing. No Norton any more. They started adding other junk?
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pyrophane 10y ago
Well, ok. Reading the data here, Apple and Asus shipped about the same number of notebooks last year at 17m. This year, Asus is expected to hold the line at around 17m, while Apple shipments are predicted dropping to 13m. I would say two things about this: 1) Except for the MacBook, it has been a year without new Apple notebooks until last week's announcement. Most of the Mac product line has been pretty crusty all year, so I imagine a lot of people have been waiting. 2) Asus ships some sub-$300 notebooks. Apple's start at $1000. Given all that, I wouldn't say this comparison is particularly revealing.
- lmm 10y ago
  I think it's a sign of commodification coming to notebooks, as happened years ago with desktops. People are no longer upgrading so frequently and no longer feel the need to go for a top-of-the-line model when they do. If sub-$300 notebooks are outselling $1000+ notebooks I'd say that's a very revealing development.
  - amiga-workbench 10y ago
    Its already happened, there is crud like the HP Stream on sale for a tiny amount of money and most of the market is stagnant with cancerous 1366x768 TN panels and truly mediocre hardware.
    - bgroins 10y ago
      Or as average/low income non-elitists call it: my affordable computer that works just fine for what I do.
      - amiga-workbench 10y ago
        They would be better served by purchasing a 4-5 year old refurbed business grade computer like an Elitebook or a ThinkPad for ~120 pounds off ebay rather than buying a creaky consumer grade blob running on repurposed tablet hardware. The industry's constant race to the bottom is getting really tiresome.
nkoren 10y ago
My girlfriend got a Zenbook a couple of weeks ago. It's a really nice machine -- not quite what I need for development purposes, but very very good. Put me in mind to see what kind of Zenbook might suit my needs. So I headed down to http://www.asus.com/zenbook/ http://www.asus.com/zenbook/ to see what kind of machines they had and how much they cost. That's how I discovered one of Apple's secret weapons, which it seems nobody is talking about: purchasability. My expectation was that Asus's site would allow me to: 1. Browse their catalogue of computers. 2. Compare their pricing and features. 3. Buy one. These are expectations which Apple's online store has given me, and I don't think they're extravagant. But with ASUS I could do exactly none of those. Nowhere on the site could I find a simple list of Zenbook models. Instead, there's so much flowery copywriting about how smart and sexy and popular a Zenbook will make me. Jesus Christ, it goes on forever. Are they using an infinite scroll? Anyhow, eventually I reach the bottom of the page: no list of available computers with specifications. WTF. Okay, let's try "Find Your Zen" -- maybe, um, that'll help me pick a machine per the features I want? No, it's some kind of personality profile, asking me what my aspirations are in life. My aspirations are to buy a fucking 13"-14" notebook with a decent CPU, an hdpi screen, an SSD, 8gb of RAM and a real HDMI port. Fine, let's pick some random options and see what it gives us. Oooh, it says I should by some kind of flip-book! Actually I didn't know that existed and it looks pretty cool. The UX360UA. Yep, I'd go for that I guess, but it would be nice to see it side-by-side with other options. Anyhow, how much does it cost? No idea. Doesn't say anywhere on the site. WTF? Okay, let's go to http://currys.co.uk/ http://currys.co.uk/ to find out. Search for Zenbooks. 78 options. Damnit, no, let's narrow down the screen size. WTF, it says they doesn't have any 13" models? Oh, no, I see -- their search filters are just completely busted. Fine, let's search through the whole list until we find what we want. Hm. They don't have the UX360UA, but they have something that looks identical called the UX360CA. Er.... what's the difference? Is that like a different model number for the UK market? No way to tell. ...Spend 5 minutes Googling, since there's no way to search for anything or compare features on the ASUS site... finally find a comparison which makes it clear that the UX360CA is has a down-rated CPU, definitely unsuitable for my work. Looks like Curry's just doesn't carry the machine I want. Okay, let's try Amazon. Searching for UX360UA pulls up scores of options, most of them having nothing to do with the UX360UA. Finally, however, I can see a price -- a mere half an hour after first looking for it on the Asus site -- but it's out of stock! Alas. Oh, it's also available from other vendors for a bit more, but still a good deal... let's do that! And, hey, this is thing is loaded! It's got a 256gb SSD and a 512gb HD. I admit: I could make use of that. I get as far as putting it onto my wishlist before I notice that it's actually a UX310UA rather than a UX360UA. Just one character difference: can't blame Amazon for thinking that the Levenshtein distance was close enough to make it a match. But WTF, I now have no idea what kind of computer this is or whether it would be suitable for me. Still have no idea how much a UX360UA that I can actually buy would cost, nor have I been able to do a side-by-side comparison of it with any other options. So how the hell am I supposed to purchase this thing??? Had to give up for the day; I'll come back to it when I have more free time. In contrast, Apple's retail experience (both online and physical) is... well, there's a lot of it that's extraordinarily polished, probably to the point of superfluousness, but they've got the very most basic mechanism figured out: 1. Here's what we've got. 2. Choose what you want. 3. Buy it. This allowed me to buy my current Macbook Pro at the Apple store on Regent street in under 12 minutes. I deeply appreciated the straightforwardness of that purchasing experience (in contrast to my girlfriend, who, when picking up her Zenbook from Currys, had to spend 15 minutes in a back room turning down upselling offers etc). Is this really so hard for others to accomplish? And no, Dell isn't any better at this. Nor is HP. I haven't checked with Silverfish^H^H^H^H Lenovo yet but am not particularly interested in their machines. In any case, this is one area where industry needs to get better at aping Apple.

66 points by yuhong 10y ago

When are these publications going to figure out that volume shipped vs Apple is a pointless milestone? I'm interested in margins and revenues, but not units shipped.

bryanlarsen 10y ago
As an Apple shareholder I care about revenues, but as a user and software dev, the metric that really matters is ecosystem size.
- acdha 10y ago
  You usually need more detail than that because the ecosystem isn't uniform: if you sell games it doesn't matter that 200M people have a mid-range Windows PC at work; if you sell professional software the $400 laptop owner segment is probably irrelevant; someone who works on public websites or education has to support almost everything to avoid lawsuits, etc.
dingaling 10y ago
> I'm interested in margins and revenues, but not units shipped. In that case Panasonic's Toughbooks would be the clear winner in the general-market space. Their low-end 'business rugged' laptops start at £1800 for an i5 spec... though with a three-year warranty. Once you move into specialist fields such as mediical and defence there are vendors whose laptops have margins that would make Apple cry, but who 'earn' those through jumping through many many regulatory hoops. Dell played-around in that space in the late 2000s, their mil-cert laptops started around $5000 with standard Latitude innards.
- protomyth 10y ago
  > but who 'earn' those through jumping through many many regulatory hoops They also earn it by knowing that those niches are willing to pay and normal computers can be problematic to an outright danger[1]. If you happen to have an employee that is a bit "rough" with their notebook and is a Windows user, a Panasonic Toughbook is a great buy. They are built like tanks and Panasonic knows their users. Also, if you have a dust or grain dust[2] environment, you most definitely should buy medical computers. We have a carpentry area that needs computers and the sealed medical computers are perfect. I use http://www.cybernetman.com http://www.cybernetman.com because I like the reps. 1) having a sealed computer that you can wipe down with Lysol is an amazing benefit for a hospital setting. 2) do not f around with normal computers in a grain dust environment unless you like fires and explosions. You want to take precautions to get proper clean airflow or use sealed computers.
SamUK96 10y ago
True. Apple makes a disgustingly large margin on each, so I suppose less volume doesn't neccessarily mean less revenue. Having said that, decreasing volume, something which is now never-ending for Apple in the last few quarters, consecutively, is a marker for doom, or at least the end of life of the product line. When you're selling less and less, you can't keep revenues up by just increasing the margin on each unit forever. It's unsustainable and unstable.
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
These publication rely on getting people to actually read their content. Of course they'll always write articles like this.
- tunap 10y ago
  Exactly my thought seeing( not reading) the ubiquitous "MS is the new Apple" articles of late. edit: early morning post needed clarity.
pawadu 10y ago
Because ASUS used to be pretty big before the post-PC dip. This only shows that they are regaining lost ground (or Apple is having problems, take your pick). Also as an ordinary person why would you be interested "margins and revenues"?

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s_kilk 10y ago

Are there any Asus laptops which work painlessly with Linux?

lossolo 10y ago
Asus zenbook works without any problems with Ubuntu 16.04 for me.
akvar 10y ago
I run Ubuntu 16.04.1 (no Windows partition) on an Asus X555 (8GB RAM, 120GB SSD). Works extremely smooth. I've also used the same setup on a Transformer series notebook and have had no issues at all. It's honestly been my best notebook experience - having used Acer & Lenovo before (not that those notebooks were bad)
- s_kilk 10y ago
  Thanks! :) How easy was the installation? Any crazy stunts to get it all working?
  - akvar 10y ago
    Nope. Simply installed from a USB drive. Of course, there's a little effort if you want a Windows partition, but that has been documented / blogged about ad nauseam, so shouldn't be too difficult.
jeswin 10y ago
I have the UX360CA and UX501VW. The fanless Core-Y UX360CA never had any issues, works out of the box. UX501VW has fan control issues with 16.04, which you can solve by installing a newer kernel (4.8 series) or by upgrading to 16.10. You must do this, otherwise the fan will run at loud, insane speeds and might eventually wear out. NVidia graphics will work without issues, but switchable graphics doesn't work via NVidia's control panel. I don't need the discrete GPU, so I'm exclusively using Intel drivers. Driver does crash (screen flickers) at times with my external 4k monitor. Apart from that, Powertop takes care of Power management issues. Overall, expect to spend 3-4 hours getting UX501VW set up.

wineisfine 10y ago

If you read all the comments here, nobody seams really 100% happy with their laptop. And apple really blew it.

agentgt 10y ago

Last year I finally switched to mac for work (I had family mac air). Before that I always used thinkpads. I still think the 15" T60 was one of the best computers I have owned. I would have stayed with it if I could upgrade 16gb (ahh Java development). The new thinkpads are bad. I'm sort of annoyed that I finally got used to mac and it is now down a path of crap (love the form factor... hate the Mac UI and no upgrade).

positivecomment 10y ago
> it is now down a path of crap People always said Apple evokes feelings. Now it seems obvious that it goes both ways. I acknowledge that it is impossible to be objective on this issue (different use cases, different people, different habits and so on) but saying that they are on a "path of crap" is too strong for most of the time, I bet. I haven't ever used any Apple product, so it's just a somewhat external observation.
- agentgt 10y ago
  Yes the comment was probably too harsh (I'm on the phone so it is harder to be tactful). Crap is also not very descriptive.
TheCowboy 10y ago
I went from a T60P to a W520 (used) a year and a half ago, because the lack of ram was a strain. W520 is the last Thinkpad with the "retro" keyboard, and officially supports 16gb of memory but unofficially supports 32gb. Though it's quite heavy and not the most energy efficient, I have been quite happy with it for my needs.
shuntress 10y ago
I have a new T450 for work and at home a new X1 Carbon (which they call a thinkpad). Both are excellent. Maybe not as good as older thinkpads, but I think it's quite a stretch to call all new thinkpads bad.
madenine 10y ago
I wouldn't discount the ThinkPads so quickly. I use a T460s for work - its a great machine. I prefer it to my 2013 MBP.

hellofunk 10y ago

I think part of the recent sentiment towards Apple is due to the expectations game. If it had been a different company, like Asus, to introduce a very thin, very lightweight computer with excellent graphics and a touch strip, I think a lot of people would be thinking, "wow! Asus is really innovating! what a useful little machine!". But because it is Apple, the expectations go far beyond that of any other company, so the probability of disappointment is very high.

Eridrus 10y ago
It's not just the expectations, Apple's price tags demand innovation. If they're not doing anything special you can get much cheaper hardware.
- hellofunk 10y ago
  I'm curious if, beyond innovative features, the actual build quality and battery life of a machine should command higher prices. I had a couple Windows laptops (one by Dell) with quite poor battery life. My MacBook Pro from 2011 goes all day with serious activity without a charge, sometimes 2 days. I don't discredit the disappointment in the recent Apple laptop announcements, but I do think that paying a premium price for a genuinely solid machine is reasonable, even if that machine doesn't have a rapid change in features. I've never had any other laptop last over 5 years without any major problems. And it is also hard for me to deny that after lugging around a heavier laptop for awhile, having a light Macbook Pro definitely is easier when on the go.
  - jerf 10y ago
    "... should command higher prices. I had a couple Windows laptops (one by Dell) with quite poor battery life." You don't say, but, were they higher-end Dell laptops or not? I've got an 6-year-old Dell Studio 17 still going strong, which cost about $1,000 when I bought it. I recently replaced it solely because I've learned that waiting until a machine is completely dead to replace it produces stress, when you end up having to go to Best Buy or equivalent and just buy whatever they may happen to have lying around, which is not what I'm looking for. The battery lasts about 10 minutes tops right now but I never bought it for its battery life anyhow. It's in pretty good shape for 6 years old. The screen's doing something weird with diagonal streaks developing in the top and bottom, but it's still perfectly usable at the moment. On the other hand, the bottom-of-the-line Dell stuff is crap I'd hardly expect to last two years. It depends on what you buy.

SamUK96 10y ago

To be honest, the zenbook line has been a big hit. Good value and very sexy. Wish I had enough money for the UX390UA. It's basically faster, thinner, lighter, sexier Dell XPS...

pawadu 10y ago
second that, UX390UA (aka zenbook 3) not only looks sexy it also packs incredible power (core KL i7) in a tiny body. Be sure to watch Lisa's comparison with the 12" macbook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhoAACXWNHU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhoAACXWNHU
BoorishBears 10y ago
I have its predecessor, the 303UB and on paper it's great, but it's not as nice as I expected. The 4K screen has a "faux 4K" pentile-like layout so smaller text and any type of thin line look horrid on Windows and stock Ubuntu (I Hackintoshed it for better multi monitor support and OSX anti-aliasing looks much better, making me wonder if Retinas have the same type of "faux 4K") The screen also has the same horrible yellow tint defect as several other 13" 4K models I looked at. The touch screen has a layer above the screen that becomes really noticeable in certain light (Bot that the touch screen is really of any use on a non-transforming laptop). The list goes on.
- SamUK96 10y ago
  Isn't that the line with the Core M chips? They were a travesty for Windows 10. ~1000p on Passmark lol. Compare to an i7 6500U CPU, which has ~4500. TBH, 4K laptop screens are a total scam.
  - BoorishBears 10y ago
    It's a i7 6xxxU (I don't remember the exact model off hand but I'd guess it's the 6500) with a GTX 940M... Hi-Dpi support was so shoddy with multiple monitors on Windows and Linux that I sacrificed access to the 940M to Hackintosh it
10y ago

aq3cn 10y ago

Quality wise who is better and reliable as a Windows or Linux machine manufacturer. Help me create a sequence: 1. Razer 2. Asus 3. Microsoft 4. Dell 5. Lenovo 6. HP 7. Acer 8. Sony (?) 9. Samsung Apple (?) Clevo (?) Toshiba (?) system76 (?) alienware (?)

anexprogrammer 10y ago
Lenovo ideapad (cheap ones, superfish, avoid) and Lenovo Thinkpad (no superfish, mostly good) should be thought separate manufacturers. They're not comparable. For quality and reliability. This is astonishingly subjective and quite probably wrong :p 1. Thinkpad. Not as good as they were, but appear to be trying to improve again. Usually a fairly safe bet for BSD & Linux drivers. Support (UK) have been excellent. 2. Dell 2. HP (Like with Lenovo separate the cheap consumer crap, and the well made professional ranges) 3. The rest 4. Apple. Well made, hopeless for upgrade, now very overpriced. New keyboard seems to be disliked on reviews so far. 99. Acer - Pet hate brand that always seems to have far more than fair share of issues, and support (UK) terrible. No experience of clevo or system76. Not sure MS have been around long enough with Surface to judge well yet. Personally I would be wary of Razer, though I've not owned a laptop of theirs, which might be superb. None of their mice and keyboards seem to last 5 minutes. Santa will bring the kids no more Razer Nagas.
- rayiner 10y ago
  I've had three Thinkpads in two years (T440, two T450s). Their build quality is okay by PC standards, not great. The keyboard deck is warped on my work T450s. The screen was shit on my T440. The screen is shit with bad backlight bleed and low maximum brightness on both T450s. EDIT: Oh I forgot about the absolute ton of crapware on the machine out of box.
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago
    A surprise. I always felt screens have been one of their best features, with great consistency and brightness so far. I'm looking to replace at the moment, and t460 t560 are shortlisted along with dell and HP. So now I'm clueless again. :p Don't like the 6 row chiclet keyboard, sound is garbage on recent machines I've had, don't seem as resilient, and not the same attention to detail. Crapware? Access Connections (Adobe Air made it slow junk), warranty/help/update thing. No Norton any more. They started adding other junk?

deleted 10y ago

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pyrophane 10y ago

Well, ok. Reading the data here, Apple and Asus shipped about the same number of notebooks last year at 17m. This year, Asus is expected to hold the line at around 17m, while Apple shipments are predicted dropping to 13m. I would say two things about this: 1) Except for the MacBook, it has been a year without new Apple notebooks until last week's announcement. Most of the Mac product line has been pretty crusty all year, so I imagine a lot of people have been waiting. 2) Asus ships some sub-$300 notebooks. Apple's start at $1000. Given all that, I wouldn't say this comparison is particularly revealing.

lmm 10y ago
I think it's a sign of commodification coming to notebooks, as happened years ago with desktops. People are no longer upgrading so frequently and no longer feel the need to go for a top-of-the-line model when they do. If sub-$300 notebooks are outselling $1000+ notebooks I'd say that's a very revealing development.
- amiga-workbench 10y ago
  Its already happened, there is crud like the HP Stream on sale for a tiny amount of money and most of the market is stagnant with cancerous 1366x768 TN panels and truly mediocre hardware.
  - bgroins 10y ago
    Or as average/low income non-elitists call it: my affordable computer that works just fine for what I do.
    - amiga-workbench 10y ago
      They would be better served by purchasing a 4-5 year old refurbed business grade computer like an Elitebook or a ThinkPad for ~120 pounds off ebay rather than buying a creaky consumer grade blob running on repurposed tablet hardware. The industry's constant race to the bottom is getting really tiresome.

nkoren 10y ago

My girlfriend got a Zenbook a couple of weeks ago. It's a really nice machine -- not quite what I need for development purposes, but very very good. Put me in mind to see what kind of Zenbook might suit my needs. So I headed down to http://www.asus.com/zenbook/ http://www.asus.com/zenbook/ to see what kind of machines they had and how much they cost. That's how I discovered one of Apple's secret weapons, which it seems nobody is talking about: purchasability. My expectation was that Asus's site would allow me to: 1. Browse their catalogue of computers. 2. Compare their pricing and features. 3. Buy one. These are expectations which Apple's online store has given me, and I don't think they're extravagant. But with ASUS I could do exactly none of those. Nowhere on the site could I find a simple list of Zenbook models. Instead, there's so much flowery copywriting about how smart and sexy and popular a Zenbook will make me. Jesus Christ, it goes on forever. Are they using an infinite scroll? Anyhow, eventually I reach the bottom of the page: no list of available computers with specifications. WTF. Okay, let's try "Find Your Zen" -- maybe, um, that'll help me pick a machine per the features I want? No, it's some kind of personality profile, asking me what my aspirations are in life. My aspirations are to buy a fucking 13"-14" notebook with a decent CPU, an hdpi screen, an SSD, 8gb of RAM and a real HDMI port. Fine, let's pick some random options and see what it gives us. Oooh, it says I should by some kind of flip-book! Actually I didn't know that existed and it looks pretty cool. The UX360UA. Yep, I'd go for that I guess, but it would be nice to see it side-by-side with other options. Anyhow, how much does it cost? No idea. Doesn't say anywhere on the site. WTF? Okay, let's go to http://currys.co.uk/ http://currys.co.uk/ to find out. Search for Zenbooks. 78 options. Damnit, no, let's narrow down the screen size. WTF, it says they doesn't have any 13" models? Oh, no, I see -- their search filters are just completely busted. Fine, let's search through the whole list until we find what we want. Hm. They don't have the UX360UA, but they have something that looks identical called the UX360CA. Er.... what's the difference? Is that like a different model number for the UK market? No way to tell. ...Spend 5 minutes Googling, since there's no way to search for anything or compare features on the ASUS site... finally find a comparison which makes it clear that the UX360CA is has a down-rated CPU, definitely unsuitable for my work. Looks like Curry's just doesn't carry the machine I want. Okay, let's try Amazon. Searching for UX360UA pulls up scores of options, most of them having nothing to do with the UX360UA. Finally, however, I can see a price -- a mere half an hour after first looking for it on the Asus site -- but it's out of stock! Alas. Oh, it's also available from other vendors for a bit more, but still a good deal... let's do that! And, hey, this is thing is loaded! It's got a 256gb SSD and a 512gb HD. I admit: I could make use of that. I get as far as putting it onto my wishlist before I notice that it's actually a UX310UA rather than a UX360UA. Just one character difference: can't blame Amazon for thinking that the Levenshtein distance was close enough to make it a match. But WTF, I now have no idea what kind of computer this is or whether it would be suitable for me. Still have no idea how much a UX360UA that I can actually buy would cost, nor have I been able to do a side-by-side comparison of it with any other options. So how the hell am I supposed to purchase this thing??? Had to give up for the day; I'll come back to it when I have more free time. In contrast, Apple's retail experience (both online and physical) is... well, there's a lot of it that's extraordinarily polished, probably to the point of superfluousness, but they've got the very most basic mechanism figured out: 1. Here's what we've got. 2. Choose what you want. 3. Buy it. This allowed me to buy my current Macbook Pro at the Apple store on Regent street in under 12 minutes. I deeply appreciated the straightforwardness of that purchasing experience (in contrast to my girlfriend, who, when picking up her Zenbook from Currys, had to spend 15 minutes in a back room turning down upselling offers etc). Is this really so hard for others to accomplish? And no, Dell isn't any better at this. Nor is HP. I haven't checked with Silverfish^H^H^H^H Lenovo yet but am not particularly interested in their machines. In any case, this is one area where industry needs to get better at aping Apple.