26 ms·

No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

467 points by acjohnson55 10y ago

sremani 10y ago
Roof top solar is critical for electrification of transportation since more demands would be placed on grid. SolarPV and EV go hand in hand. This product addresses many of the objections about aesthetics of Solar. TSLA has solid vision, hopefully they execute it and execute it well.
- lutorm 10y ago
  Home PV and EV doesn't go hand in hand for everyone that uses their EV to commute to work, though. I guess that represents a significant fraction of the vehicle park.
  - bbcbasic 10y ago
    What if you have a battery in the house?
  - fdgdasfadsf 10y ago
    It does if you think at grid level rather than building level.
  - elihu 10y ago
    It might be better to say that home PV and EV and battery storage go hand-in-hand (since that allows you to dump your surplus battery into your car at night), which appears to be Tesla's strategy. It would help if the battery storage were big enough to fully recharge an EV, but that's not strictly necessary unless you do a lot of driving. Solar panels on cars are another option. I used to think that was a bad idea, considering that an electric vehicle uses vastly more power than solar panels could ever hope to generate. Then I thought about my own driving patterns; On a typical work day, I drive about three miles to work, park in the sun for 8 hours, and then drive three miles home. With an electric vehicle and a solar panel on the roof, I might not even have to plug it in except on long trips. Even if that wasn't true, if a solar panel could save me, say, 10 full charges per year, it's probably worth a little extra weight and cost.
    - derekp7 10y ago
      I ran calculations recently on solar panels on electric cars. Taking Tesla's numbers, I figure it about .3 kwh per mile. A car is 5 feet wide, there are about 5 feet on the hood, 3 feet on the roof, and 2 feet on the trunk. So 50 sq feet, at 10 watts per sq foot, is 500 watts total. So 4 kwh per 8 hours, gives you 13 miles range. Or more likely, about 10 miles, once you count charging efficiencies.
  - plaguuuuuu 10y ago
    Not a huge amount of people commute >150mi
olivermarks 10y ago
'No one saw Tesla's solar roof coming...' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_shingle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_shingle Solar shingles, also called photovoltaic shingles, are solar panels or solar modules designed to look like and function as conventional roofing materials, such as asphalt shingle or slate, while also producing electricity. Solar shingles are a type of solar energy solution known as building-integrated photovoltaics (BIPV). There are several varieties of solar shingles, including shingle-sized solid panels that take the place of a number of conventional shingles in a strip, semi-rigid designs containing several silicon solar cells that are sized more like conventional shingles, and newer systems using various thin-film solar cell technologies that match conventional shingles both in size and flexibility. There are also products using a more traditional number of silicon solar cells per panel reaching as much as 100 watts DC rating per shingle.[1] Solar shingles are manufactured by several companies[2] but the two main manufacturers of solar roof shingles are Dow and CertainTeed.[3] Other active companies in the US include SunTegra Solar Roof Systems,[4] and Atlantis Energy Systems (asphalt and slate systems),[5] Unisolar went bankrupt a few years ago....
- sremani 10y ago
  I am not debating this, but this feels eerily like some feature PC/Windows has but when it is introduced by Apple say, tablets becomes the rage. No it does not have to be original, originality is over-rated. Tesla has packaged it well, and to say the least in a non-intrusive and colorful way, just like what Apple (used to do?) does with its products. I looked at DOW solar shingles, there were talk about how unmitigated disaster they were on forums, may be it is just hear-say. Tesla has the power to persuade than DOW, at least for now. Without taking Credit from DOW and others, may be this is the time of Solar Shingles.
  - colechristensen 10y ago
    Elon takes things that appeal to hippies, geeks, and the green-industrial complex and makes them appeal to the upper middle class. Part of the reason he can do that is that he's charismatic (in his own way), resourceful, and driven. Part of the reason he can do that is that "it's time" with the price of oil and the progress of technology and regulation. The same sort of thing is true for SpaceX, Tesla cars, and now Tesla solar.
Animats 10y ago
Huh? Solar shingles have been around since 2005. Dow and CertainTeed Products are the big makers. Here's a nice example of a house with a solar shingle roof.[1] There's been an aesthetic problem with mixing solar and non-solar shingles, because the colors didn't quite match. But that was mostly because solar shingles were a retrofit, not original equipment, and not an entire roof replacement. [1] http://texastinyhomes.com/integrated-solar/ http://texastinyhomes.com/integrated-solar/
- dagw 10y ago
  OT. But I find it amusing that a "tiny home" in Texas is the same size as a normal home in most other places.
  - jmiserez 10y ago
    And the same size as a large or multifamily house in Europe.
- whiskers 10y ago
  I think you're missing the point. There is no claim that "solar shingles" are a new concept, just that no one was expecting it to be what Tesla was about to announce. In fact the article even states "Like previous attempts at solar shingles..."
jaggederest 10y ago
I think it's interesting looking at it from the other end - as a homeowner, I can tell you that roofing is an expensive proposition. If this can be competitive with traditional roofing and have a longer life expectancy, I'd buy in a heartbeat. It has the potential to displace thousands of tons of asphalt shingles per year with the equivalent of recyclable glass, which is pretty fantastic. The embodied energy of production for the tar hydrocarbons in current roofing materials are pretty nasty, and they don't just disappear when they wear out.
- pfarnsworth 10y ago
  I need to replace my roof and I've been quoted almost $20k. If these are within $5k of that price, then I will jump on it.
  - sbov 10y ago
    From my experience, the price of installing solar on 1/4th of your roof is more expensive than installing a full, brand new roof. Beyond that, not all parts of the roof are created equal for solar - some will generated much less energy than others. E.g. a neighbor's tree blocks a fair portion of our roof from the sun. You can already get a $0 electricity bill without having full roof solar. I can't see it being anything but a waste of money for the practical consumer.
    - sliverstorm 10y ago
      It's already obvious this isn't targeted at your garden variety practical consumer. As the article points out, the demo'd roofing styles are all luxury roofing.
    - ant6n 10y ago
      Maybe they'll have solar and non-solar shingles that look the same, so you can have the solar shingles facing South, but the whole roof looks the same.
  - notatoad 10y ago
    In the launch presentation they were saying that their pricing is competitive with standard roofing, plus the cost of electricity over the lifetime of the roof. And they're also talking about the increased durability, so that's a lot of electricity bills. the initial installation is definitely not going to be under $25k
lifeisstillgood 10y ago
That's brilliant. It fixes that huge objection we all have to solar on our houses - and it is not the product itself but that it is a innovative solution to a problem "everyone" has looked at and said "nah I don't want that rubbish on my roof" and nearly turned it on its head It's just one more example of why discounting Elon might be a bad idea. If only I had bought tesla a few years ago ...
- lutorm 10y ago
  nah I don't want that rubbish on my roof I literally haven't seen my panels since the last time I went up on the roof. Granted, this depends a lot on how steep your roof is, but the appearance of the panels did really not go into our decision to install them.
  - icefox 10y ago
    Had a door to door solar salesman not notice my panels, that is how little people actually look at your roof.
    - lutorm 10y ago
      That's pretty hilarious.
  - mrtron 10y ago
    But perception is reality. Both homes and cars are largely purchased on appearance.
    - lutorm 10y ago
      I don't know... maybe I'm weird, but if I looked at a house and saw it had PV, I would immediately be more interested.
- mhurron 10y ago
  > "nah I don't want that rubbish on my roof" Why not? What on earth are you doing up there that this is such a problem. My roof is an open, unused space over the house. I will be looking into putting solar panels up there in a few years.
austincheney 10y ago
Hope it is insured against golf ball sized hail. If so people in Texas will buy this in droves just for the durability. In not it will never sell in Texas.
- saganus 10y ago
  Isn't it more cost effective to put some sort of transparent shield on top, for those places with above-average risk of hail damage? or is it that such a cover gets dirty and not-so-transparent faster than the original top layer? I'm guessing this must be something already being considered, so what am I missing?
  - sliverstorm 10y ago
    Metal roofs are pretty hardy, but sound like a paint can full of ball-bearings even in light hail or heavy rain. Asphalt roofs are inexpensive. Given that hail-damaged asphalt roofs keep getting replaced with asphalt roofs, I have to think it's some kind of market/regulation/short-term-profit thing.
- ne0n 10y ago
  Did you see the announcement video? They dropped a kettlebell on it and all it got was a small crack.
  - makomk 10y ago
    Now think about what will happen after water makes its way into that crack and goes through a few hundred freeze-thaw cycles.
    - TheGRS 10y ago
      So this technology is useless because years of wear and tear will make you need to replace the roof eventually? Isn't that pretty normal for any house?
      - 10y ago
whiskers 10y ago
This appears to be a great implementation of an idea that's been kicking around a while. I love the detail of engineering that's gone into this and I really hope the numbers stack up to make it viable. It's the first Tesla product where I've thought to myself "wow, I really want that" and I hope that I'll have a roof like this at some point. However I remain skeptical that the efficiency when taking into account to the manufacturing inputs and compared to a standard roof solar install will make sense. I do think it's incredibly important to make technologies superficially acceptable to gain mass adoption. That's where I believe this stands above the alternatives, let's hope it pans out. Disclaimer: I'm super excited about SpaceX (well, space in general), I'm not all that bothered about the Tesla car range, though I hope they release something I like at some point.
- compute_me 10y ago
  Let's hope that this was a genuine iPhone 1 moment! :)
philipkglass 10y ago
I had serious misgivings when Tesla/SolarCity announced a switch of focus to building-integrated PV. Historically, BIPV is where a PV technology goes to die after it's failed to compete against incumbent module designs. But these have far better aesthetics than previous BIPV efforts. They look better individually and they aren't clumped in one odd shiny patch on the roof like past BIPV. Search for images of solar shingles and you'll see what I mean about previous attempts. On Friday's thread someone here mentioned the 30% tax credit for solar installations. That made the financial proposition click for me. If the whole roof qualifies as a solar system, that's probably how they can make it financially attractive. Unlike past module-atop-roof or even patch-of-roof-BIPV offerings, you'd be able to get a tax credit for the whole shebang. Add the usual solar motivation of reducing retail electricity purchases, plus getting a roof that's more durable and attractive than the typical asphalt or wood shingles of American roofs, and it looks like Tesla/SC may have a better offering than competitors for new home builds in areas with lots of sun and expensive electricity. It wouldn't take a whole lot of builds per year to soak up all the capacity of their Buffalo factory. Just a few days ago I was saying that I couldn't see how any of the solar installation or manufacturing companies were going to build decent, defensible profit margins because panels and installation services are so commoditized. This could be the advantage that was missing: assuming decent patent coverage, SC will be able to have a monopoly on these modules and their installation for a long time to come.
- Jugurtha 10y ago
  >Search for images of solar shingles and you'll see what I mean about previous attempts. The first 9 images Google returned in the top 2 rows for "solar shingles" have 2 pictures from Tesla/SC's presentation. (~22%). The 3 top rows (13 images) contain 3 images from the presentation (~23%). It looks like you're right about the change to come.
  - Maken 10y ago
    I just made the same search, and indeed several of the top images are from the Tesla presentation. However, what have surprised me more is discovering that"solar shingles" have been a thing for so much time, and there are already some quite decent looking models, even curved ones. Of course, I have never heard about it. Tesla marketing is really far ahead of everyone else.
smoyer 10y ago
If the solar shingles last far longer than my current shingles (which actually need to be replaced soon), what about the degradation of the solar cells themselves? Traditional PV panels degrade and have to be replaced sooner than many roofing materials.
- jjawssd 10y ago
  iirc 20 years is a typical rated lifespan of PV installations
- denom 10y ago
  In the linked video Elon mentions a "lifetime" of use. If that's true, then sign me up.
- philipkglass 10y ago
  There are a lot of different degradation mechanisms that affect silicon based PV modules. http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pdfs/pvrw2010_wohlgemuth_silicon.pdf http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pdfs/pvrw2010_wohlgemuth_s... Most typical failures are thermomechanical fatigue and chemical breakdown of encapsulant and backsheet materials. Musk said that these are made of quartz (vitreous silica?) which has a very low coefficient of thermal expansion and should reduce thermomechanical fatigue on connections. By all appearances these are glass on both sides, no backsheet polymer layer, hence no backsheet breakdown possible. These small modules are going to be more robust against mechanical damage than modules with larger surface areas. Both Silevo and Panasonic* base their cell technology on n-type monocrystalline silicon, which exhibits negligible light induced degradation over time (an optoelectronic effect which can gradually reduce efficiency of more common p-type cells). The glass-all-around design also eliminates the chances of potential induced degradation. The median degradation rate for crystalline silicon PV modules as a group is only 0.5% per year (meaning 86% of original rated output after 30 years) and these modules look like they can achieve significantly lower degradation rates than that. Poor execution can ruin any concept, of course, but these really look like they could work for several decades. *SolarCity acquired PV startup Silevo and originally intended to ramp the technology up to gigawatt manufacturing scale in a new factory in Buffalo, NY. More recently they've stated that Panasonic will run the Buffalo factory and the cell tech will be some kind of blend between Panasonic and Silevo; both companies' cell technology are based on heterojunction cell designs on n-type monocrystalline silicon substrates.
GregBuchholz 10y ago
I'm curious if anyone has stats on what percentage of houses have an unobstructed southern roof (for those in the Northern hemisphere)? My house has seasonally adjusted nanotechnology self-replicating shade "panels" that block considerable sunlight in the spring and summer months (MTBF: 100+ years). The big downside is cleaning up the unused panels in the autumn.
- STRiDEX 10y ago
  https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0 https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0
  - GregBuchholz 10y ago
    Very cool! It seems like it worked for my place: "0 sq feet available for solar panels Based on 3D modeling of your roof and nearby trees"
    - FireBeyond 10y ago
      I tried an address in Cave Creek AZ. 2000 hours of usable sunlight a year. 4664 sq ft available for panels. Total 20 year savings: $1,000. Seems... underwhelming. Oh, this is for a lease. $2,000 if you have to borrow to install the panels. Still... $100/yr? The only worthwhile benefit is you can afford to pay $21,000 out of pocket.
      - Udik 10y ago
        Does it also give you how much you would have made if you had invested the equivalent of the roof panels cost on the stock market?
      - rconti 10y ago
        Those numbers sound way off. My house in Redwood City, CA: 1873 hours of usable sunlight 1561 sqft available for panels (ain't no Cave Creek mansion!) $9000 savings. I left my electric bill at the default $100 estimate, which is close enough. They only defaulted to 3.5kw system for me, I assume based on my electric costs. 247 sqft. Maybe your costs were too low. There's no way an electric bill on a cave creek mansion is $100/mo. Their rates are lower, but the A/C will kill you. Once I moved the slider to $500/mo it estimates $89,000 savings, for example.
lets-tryagain 10y ago
I am in the market for a new roof...but I have a steep-pitch roof with a bunch of weird little valleys. Roofers charge people with roofs like mine extra due to the pitch. Will I be able to actually find a roofer to do this? Will it be remotely cost effective? I have been quoted $30k or so for my roof. My utility bills are low(ish)...I am far more worried about a roof doing what a roof should do - keep water out. Do these shingles actually stand up to bad weather? Will roof repair people walk on them? Will they work on a high-pitch roof? My feeling is that a slick surface like glass won't work on a steep pitch since roofers now need to use spiked shoes on my roof when they walk on it
jlebrech 10y ago
it's more like the manufacturing process is what makes this product unique, not the product itself.
wojcech 10y ago
I'm sure i'm not the only one who feels like this is possibly the iphone moment of Solarcity/Tesla: an old-ish idea, made sexy and tasty to consumers, together with technology reaching a tipping point(and also Musk again finding a way to maximally exploit government subsidies for clean tech.) The tesla car itself could count as well, but felt less "design driven" imo. If this fails, everyone will call it obviously due to bad tech. If it succeeds, I'd say it was because the tech was barely sufficient to keep up with the excellent luster. On a side note, I wonder whether or not the heavy government subsidies will be forgotten in the lore of clean tech, just like silicon valley seems to have forgotten the complete and utter reliance on government funding in it's infancy(or possibly even today)
- aerovistae 10y ago
  Another side note: it always annoys me when people insinuate that Musk using government funds is a bad thing. The government is literally just US....it's our money and a collection of individuals from among us who we've appointed to handle the general administration of us and the space we take up. Why should American entrepreneurs, particularly ones doing such an outstanding job of moving technology in a positive direction, not get our financial support (a.k.a. the government's support)? Who exactly is losing out when we support our own business initiatives with our own money?
  - baby_wipe 10y ago
    -
    - robbrown451 10y ago
      Yes, one is game theoretically stable, and one isn't. (the one that isn't is individuals voluntarily giving money to things where the benefit is shared by all)
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    Indeed. Tesla is a stellar example of using government money responsibly and for exactly the purpose it was intended to.
davidklemke 10y ago
It will be interesting to see how it competes against more traditional solar systems. Right now I can get a 10KW system, with an inverter and installation, all for AUD$9000. If Tesla could be competitive at that price point, both in terms of raw cost and the capacity of the system installed, then I'd be all over it. Otherwise I might just go the regular route as not many people look at my roof. Heck I barely do!
JoelBennett 10y ago
I'm curious - I still haven't seen any details on how these are installed. How are things wired - does the wiring run under the shingles themselves? Also, how does it work with odd sized/shaped roofs - e.g.: something that isn't exactly a multiple of 1/2 a shingle?
- mrtron 10y ago
  I expect for the odd sized they would have border shingles that match and are easily cut. Wiring seems like one of the hardest things to get right with these, especially given the environmental conditions!
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  There are probably electrified tracks which are screwed down onto the rafters, similar to the way wooden risers* are put down for clay tiles to attach to. The tiles attach using metal clips or nails. SolarCity acquired Zep Solar a while back, who designed quick installation solar mounting systems. I assume they're using that team to design something fully integrated and fast to install. You'll probably just snap the tiles onto the rails after they are screwed (bolted?) down. The tracks would just plug into each other like Christmas lights. They said they're producing plain tiles without panels inside for edge pieces and north/east/west roof faces. * http://www.topnotchgenconstruction.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/clay-tile-2.jpg http://www.topnotchgenconstruction.com/wp-content/uploads/20...
robterrell 10y ago
Side topic, but I wonder if there's a pivot point coming where household appliances could be offered in DC versions. It would be great to avoid the inverter efficiency loss / point of failure. Could there be a standard DC interior wiring system with line voltage for the fridge / dishwasher / laundry machines and let's say LED lights, phone chargers, etc? The need for AC power is just an artifact of long transmission distances, right?
- rb808 10y ago
  Wow yeah would be great to have an global standard wall socket as well. Eg take you TV/PC/lamp from US to Europe and plug straight in...
- Filligree 10y ago
  High-voltage DC is actually more efficient for long-distance transport, and makes it easier to interconnect grids. Efficiency is not why we use AC. Installation cost and history is, because you need converters everywhere you connect it to an AC grid. Up until recently a lot of standard pieces of equipment weren't practical for HVDC lines. Electrical breakers, for instance: They existed, but tended to have short lifespans. That's because DC lines never go to zero power, whereas AC lines do so a hundred times per second. Modern technology has changed that. The equipment is still more expensive, but that would be made up for by the reduced transmission losses... if we were starting from scratch. We're not.
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- lovemenot 10y ago
  A few years ago the Economist argued that USB is already becoming just such a domestic DC standard. http://www.economist.com/news/international/21588104-humble-usb-cable-part-electrical-revolution-it-will-make-power-supplies http://www.economist.com/news/international/21588104-humble-...
jomamaxx 10y ago
Note to HN posters: do not dare criticize Pope Musk or any of his Holy Products, lest you risk a million down votes. FYI - I'm not a building expert, but I come from a large family of builders and grew up in a hardware store / lumber yard. I also looked into getting solar roofing (fleetingly) for a family friend. At least three years ago - the costs were nowhere near manageable for Ontario homes. So we'll see how this works out.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Obligatory reminder to HN posters: do not comment on your own downvotes lest you attract more downvotes.
- Mz 10y ago
  You look to have been downvoted probably one time. I suggest you delete this comment while you still can. The other comment has only been up for 15 minutes. There is still plenty of time for someone else to decide to upvote it for some reason.
  - jomamaxx 10y ago
    Sorry, I should have added that Musk bit as an addendum to my first comment - and it's a reflection from previous experience, not from any activity on the comment I made on this thread. I could care less about my 'HN karma' -> it's meaningless to me. I made the comment purely in jest.
    - Mz 10y ago
      "Purely in jest" is probably not the right phrasing if it is based on long experience, thus a sincere prediction of the likely outcome. I get what you are going for, but, my experiences suggest that if you want to take a position that opposes that of the majority view of the group in question, this sort of commentary is extremely counterproductive. Not that you need to care. I am just someone who likes talking with people and you made the mistake of talking to me, so I am now talking to you. (shrugs)
- 10y ago
OliverJones 10y ago
"No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming" Let's rephrase that headline. "No one to whom a lazy journalist named Tom Randall spoke saw Tesla's Solar Roof Coming."
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  Everyone knew it was going to be a solar roof. Musk said so. What no one predicted was that what they actually introduced, which is roof tiles indistinguishable from slate or terracotta. The headline is about the specific Tesla Solar Roof, not the general idea of a Tesla solar roof.
hnnicker 10y ago
When adding traditional PV panels to my house a few years ago, I talked to the designer about PV shingles. He said the problem is that PVs are black and get hot in the sun. Traditional panels are raised a few inches above the roof with a gap that allows air flow (stack effect) to cool the panel. Also, the panel shades the roof, keeping the attic cooler (less A/C). With shingles, when they get hot, the attic gets hot (more A/C).
gotthemwmds 10y ago
hahahahahahah what? nobody saw it coming when elon musk owns solar f'ing factory? dumbest headline.
- sctb 10y ago
  Please don't comment like this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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patrickg_zill 10y ago
Asphalt shingles need to be replaced, depending on climate and other factors that cause them to degrade, every 10(?) to 20 years. Thus at least 5% of the total roofing market in existing residential houses, is a potential customer each year.
- majewsky 10y ago
  Assuming that everyone uses asphalt shingles, which is definitely not the case. For example, the German Wikipedia article for asphalt shingles describes them as "a typical GDR roofing". Germans tend to prefer clay/ceramic tiles on their homes, which can easily last 50 years and more.
  - patrickg_zill 10y ago
    The asphalt shingles are very popular in the USA, which is what I assumed their first market would be, since contractors apparently have to be trained in their installation.
    - majewsky 10y ago
      That seems likely. I just wanted to point out that the market looks quite different in other countries.
walrus01 10y ago
Nobody expects the spanish tiled roof inquisition!
myrandomcomment 10y ago
My wife and I purchased a house in 2015 and remodel it. The roof is 25 years old and needs to be replaced. We have patched it up and have been holding off because I knew this was coming. Everything in the house is LED and Engerystar, etc. The 2 big power items are the hot tub and the heated floor in the bathroom. My power bill in my area has 3 levels and the 1st level is not enough for any reasonable usage. With the fully efficient house, removing the hot tub and heat floor I am still pushed to the 3 level of pricing which make my bill $300 per month. This as my new roof + the power wall is a no brainer for me. Where do I sign up ;)
prewett 10y ago
Pet peeve: meaningless projections into the far future. The "battery prices keep tumbling" chart is a complete fiction. They took two data points and extrapolated a smooth e^-x function, which portrays a untruthful appearance of accuracy. Two points fit whatever curve you want to fit. Including this graph is worse than having nothing. Question: how would I complain to Bloomberg about this?
- Graphon1 10y ago
  editor@bloomberg.com
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  The range on the graph isn't necessarily the entirety of the data used for the model.
atmosx 10y ago
I wonder if this is a good time to buy solar city stock.
cybernytrix 10y ago
This is an awesome product and a big disruptor. Has anyone done the math on the revenues and profitability for Tesla? On the one hand it will sell for more than the typical 10-20K roof job. But then it is supposed to last 50years. What are the chances that Tesla will even be around in 50years?
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  The way SolarCity works, you don't own the panels SolarCity does. So ostensibly you would finance the roof and then pay a locked in price per kWh which would be recurring revenue for Tesla even after the roof is paid off.
Udik 10y ago
I'm curious. From a global warming + CO2 perspective (and total costs, maybe), are we better off: - by making mirror roofs that bounce as much light as possible back towards the sky (therefore not trapping heat, and reducing the need for A/C in the summer); - or by using heat-trapping solar roofs that produce electricity but act as heat-sinks and require more A/C usage in the summer? And what about shingles that go from mirror to black from summer to winter, to decrease the need of winter heating as well as summer A/C? What if we take in account the amount of CO2 needed to manufacture the solar roof?
awqrre 10y ago
To me, the solar roof is the most interesting project coming out of Tesla so far... and of course it combines nicely with their other products. But when will it be available and for how much? I need to replace my roof soon.
brownbat 10y ago
Elon develops solar and rocket tech with a company named after an inventor known for wireless power transmission. Alright, fine, how long until Tesla launches satellite power systems?
gwbas1c 10y ago
You've got to be kidding!!! Just look at those ugly solar panels on roofs, and it becomes obvious that someone is going to make solar shingles. I've been joking with my family that someone will come out with solar shingles in the next few years. Obvious!
lxmorj 10y ago
I wonder - if you run current through these when they're covered with snow, will they heat up and melt it away?
- dimfeld 10y ago
  Musk recently posted to Twitter about using dedicated heating elements in the tiles for this purpose: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/792218248917811204 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/792218248917811204
- timv 10y ago
  From the article: It can also be fitted with heating elements to melt snow in colder climates (not quite "run current through", but ...)
intrasight 10y ago
What I find most clever about these roof panels is that is will likely silence a lot of HOA critics. While more and more states are considering "solar rights" laws, it is still better for all involved not to have to fight that battle.
- jonstewart 10y ago
  I live in a historic preservation district, with a south-sloping roof. I'm not permitted to put up solar panels because they'd be visible from the street, but these have a chance of getting past the historic preservation authorities. That would be fantastic.
maximilianburke 10y ago
I would really like something like this, however the roof of my house has a really shallow pitch which makes it unsuitable for tiled roofs, be it glass (solar), ceramic, or asphalt. I guess panels are still an option, though it would be nice to never worry about the roof again :)
- jaggederest 10y ago
  A well made flat roof (for your low pitch) should last close to 50 years. They're commonly more expensive but much more durable than pitched roofing. I'd probably consult with the solar folks before getting your roof redone though. You'll probably save money if you make sure the roofers and the solar installers are coordinating correctly before either goes to work.
patkai 10y ago
I think I understand what Musk is doing, but I need to ask: what is everybody else doing? Soon all innovation will be Tesla/
ZeroGravitas 10y ago
Is there a solution where you just use existing panels as giant tiles instead of putting them on top of an existing roof? I can imagine say a carport, which is tilted so that you don't really see what it's made from (though I've seen relatively cool looking solar panels anyway). Might work on modern new builds too. Seems like there would be a market for that a well as these "fake" tiles that seem sized based on the traditional materials.
ZeroGravitas 10y ago
There's some new houses being built near me that were designed from the start to have solar panels built into the roof. The panels are inset so they roughly along with the tiles around them and the panels themselves appear black so blend in color-wise too. You can see the panels but they're not actively ugly, which seems a good compromise. This seems like more a Tesla level solution, where you're paying a premium but it's better than a normal roof. The ones near me are the GM Bolt solution, where it's about as aesthetically pleasing as any other generic home and are priced accordingly. It's probably good to have solutions at multiple price points though.
speby 10y ago
This is really nice to see an innovation on something "old but new again" like a roof. Roofs are not exactly the industry/product space we see a lot of innovation in lately. The typical asphalt/cedar/steel/terracotta roofs we know of today have mostly been serving the needs of homeowners reasonably well for a very long time. Tying to beat those materials out on functionality, cost, reliability, and longevity is a tall order, to be sure. Mixing in the ability to grab the sun's energy and use it to power your home and mechanicals and devices is a compelling option. But because electricity is electricity is electricity (To most people) the economics of this are going to be absolutely key. Whereas the iPhone really did bring significant usability innovations to people's lives, as in the ability to do new and useful things that were previously harder or more annoying in the past, this type of roof doesn't necessarily provide more functionality. Though the heated roof certainly could be useful in cold climates. But again, I think that the economics are going to be very critical to seeing wider adoption for this.

467 points by acjohnson55 10y ago

Roof top solar is critical for electrification of transportation since more demands would be placed on grid. SolarPV and EV go hand in hand. This product addresses many of the objections about aesthetics of Solar. TSLA has solid vision, hopefully they execute it and execute it well.

lutorm 10y ago
Home PV and EV doesn't go hand in hand for everyone that uses their EV to commute to work, though. I guess that represents a significant fraction of the vehicle park.
- bbcbasic 10y ago
  What if you have a battery in the house?
- fdgdasfadsf 10y ago
  It does if you think at grid level rather than building level.
- elihu 10y ago
  It might be better to say that home PV and EV and battery storage go hand-in-hand (since that allows you to dump your surplus battery into your car at night), which appears to be Tesla's strategy. It would help if the battery storage were big enough to fully recharge an EV, but that's not strictly necessary unless you do a lot of driving. Solar panels on cars are another option. I used to think that was a bad idea, considering that an electric vehicle uses vastly more power than solar panels could ever hope to generate. Then I thought about my own driving patterns; On a typical work day, I drive about three miles to work, park in the sun for 8 hours, and then drive three miles home. With an electric vehicle and a solar panel on the roof, I might not even have to plug it in except on long trips. Even if that wasn't true, if a solar panel could save me, say, 10 full charges per year, it's probably worth a little extra weight and cost.
  - derekp7 10y ago
    I ran calculations recently on solar panels on electric cars. Taking Tesla's numbers, I figure it about .3 kwh per mile. A car is 5 feet wide, there are about 5 feet on the hood, 3 feet on the roof, and 2 feet on the trunk. So 50 sq feet, at 10 watts per sq foot, is 500 watts total. So 4 kwh per 8 hours, gives you 13 miles range. Or more likely, about 10 miles, once you count charging efficiencies.
- plaguuuuuu 10y ago
  Not a huge amount of people commute >150mi

olivermarks 10y ago

'No one saw Tesla's solar roof coming...' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_shingle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_shingle Solar shingles, also called photovoltaic shingles, are solar panels or solar modules designed to look like and function as conventional roofing materials, such as asphalt shingle or slate, while also producing electricity. Solar shingles are a type of solar energy solution known as building-integrated photovoltaics (BIPV). There are several varieties of solar shingles, including shingle-sized solid panels that take the place of a number of conventional shingles in a strip, semi-rigid designs containing several silicon solar cells that are sized more like conventional shingles, and newer systems using various thin-film solar cell technologies that match conventional shingles both in size and flexibility. There are also products using a more traditional number of silicon solar cells per panel reaching as much as 100 watts DC rating per shingle.[1] Solar shingles are manufactured by several companies[2] but the two main manufacturers of solar roof shingles are Dow and CertainTeed.[3] Other active companies in the US include SunTegra Solar Roof Systems,[4] and Atlantis Energy Systems (asphalt and slate systems),[5] Unisolar went bankrupt a few years ago....

sremani 10y ago
I am not debating this, but this feels eerily like some feature PC/Windows has but when it is introduced by Apple say, tablets becomes the rage. No it does not have to be original, originality is over-rated. Tesla has packaged it well, and to say the least in a non-intrusive and colorful way, just like what Apple (used to do?) does with its products. I looked at DOW solar shingles, there were talk about how unmitigated disaster they were on forums, may be it is just hear-say. Tesla has the power to persuade than DOW, at least for now. Without taking Credit from DOW and others, may be this is the time of Solar Shingles.
- colechristensen 10y ago
  Elon takes things that appeal to hippies, geeks, and the green-industrial complex and makes them appeal to the upper middle class. Part of the reason he can do that is that he's charismatic (in his own way), resourceful, and driven. Part of the reason he can do that is that "it's time" with the price of oil and the progress of technology and regulation. The same sort of thing is true for SpaceX, Tesla cars, and now Tesla solar.

Animats 10y ago

Huh? Solar shingles have been around since 2005. Dow and CertainTeed Products are the big makers. Here's a nice example of a house with a solar shingle roof.[1] There's been an aesthetic problem with mixing solar and non-solar shingles, because the colors didn't quite match. But that was mostly because solar shingles were a retrofit, not original equipment, and not an entire roof replacement. [1] http://texastinyhomes.com/integrated-solar/ http://texastinyhomes.com/integrated-solar/

dagw 10y ago
OT. But I find it amusing that a "tiny home" in Texas is the same size as a normal home in most other places.
- jmiserez 10y ago
  And the same size as a large or multifamily house in Europe.
whiskers 10y ago
I think you're missing the point. There is no claim that "solar shingles" are a new concept, just that no one was expecting it to be what Tesla was about to announce. In fact the article even states "Like previous attempts at solar shingles..."

jaggederest 10y ago

I think it's interesting looking at it from the other end - as a homeowner, I can tell you that roofing is an expensive proposition. If this can be competitive with traditional roofing and have a longer life expectancy, I'd buy in a heartbeat. It has the potential to displace thousands of tons of asphalt shingles per year with the equivalent of recyclable glass, which is pretty fantastic. The embodied energy of production for the tar hydrocarbons in current roofing materials are pretty nasty, and they don't just disappear when they wear out.

pfarnsworth 10y ago
I need to replace my roof and I've been quoted almost $20k. If these are within $5k of that price, then I will jump on it.
- sbov 10y ago
  From my experience, the price of installing solar on 1/4th of your roof is more expensive than installing a full, brand new roof. Beyond that, not all parts of the roof are created equal for solar - some will generated much less energy than others. E.g. a neighbor's tree blocks a fair portion of our roof from the sun. You can already get a $0 electricity bill without having full roof solar. I can't see it being anything but a waste of money for the practical consumer.
  - sliverstorm 10y ago
    It's already obvious this isn't targeted at your garden variety practical consumer. As the article points out, the demo'd roofing styles are all luxury roofing.
  - ant6n 10y ago
    Maybe they'll have solar and non-solar shingles that look the same, so you can have the solar shingles facing South, but the whole roof looks the same.
- notatoad 10y ago
  In the launch presentation they were saying that their pricing is competitive with standard roofing, plus the cost of electricity over the lifetime of the roof. And they're also talking about the increased durability, so that's a lot of electricity bills. the initial installation is definitely not going to be under $25k

lifeisstillgood 10y ago

That's brilliant. It fixes that huge objection we all have to solar on our houses - and it is not the product itself but that it is a innovative solution to a problem "everyone" has looked at and said "nah I don't want that rubbish on my roof" and nearly turned it on its head It's just one more example of why discounting Elon might be a bad idea. If only I had bought tesla a few years ago ...

lutorm 10y ago
nah I don't want that rubbish on my roof I literally haven't seen my panels since the last time I went up on the roof. Granted, this depends a lot on how steep your roof is, but the appearance of the panels did really not go into our decision to install them.
- icefox 10y ago
  Had a door to door solar salesman not notice my panels, that is how little people actually look at your roof.
  - lutorm 10y ago
    That's pretty hilarious.
- mrtron 10y ago
  But perception is reality. Both homes and cars are largely purchased on appearance.
  - lutorm 10y ago
    I don't know... maybe I'm weird, but if I looked at a house and saw it had PV, I would immediately be more interested.
mhurron 10y ago
> "nah I don't want that rubbish on my roof" Why not? What on earth are you doing up there that this is such a problem. My roof is an open, unused space over the house. I will be looking into putting solar panels up there in a few years.

austincheney 10y ago

Hope it is insured against golf ball sized hail. If so people in Texas will buy this in droves just for the durability. In not it will never sell in Texas.

saganus 10y ago
Isn't it more cost effective to put some sort of transparent shield on top, for those places with above-average risk of hail damage? or is it that such a cover gets dirty and not-so-transparent faster than the original top layer? I'm guessing this must be something already being considered, so what am I missing?
- sliverstorm 10y ago
  Metal roofs are pretty hardy, but sound like a paint can full of ball-bearings even in light hail or heavy rain. Asphalt roofs are inexpensive. Given that hail-damaged asphalt roofs keep getting replaced with asphalt roofs, I have to think it's some kind of market/regulation/short-term-profit thing.
ne0n 10y ago
Did you see the announcement video? They dropped a kettlebell on it and all it got was a small crack.
- makomk 10y ago
  Now think about what will happen after water makes its way into that crack and goes through a few hundred freeze-thaw cycles.
  - TheGRS 10y ago
    So this technology is useless because years of wear and tear will make you need to replace the roof eventually? Isn't that pretty normal for any house?
    - 10y ago

whiskers 10y ago

This appears to be a great implementation of an idea that's been kicking around a while. I love the detail of engineering that's gone into this and I really hope the numbers stack up to make it viable. It's the first Tesla product where I've thought to myself "wow, I really want that" and I hope that I'll have a roof like this at some point. However I remain skeptical that the efficiency when taking into account to the manufacturing inputs and compared to a standard roof solar install will make sense. I do think it's incredibly important to make technologies superficially acceptable to gain mass adoption. That's where I believe this stands above the alternatives, let's hope it pans out. Disclaimer: I'm super excited about SpaceX (well, space in general), I'm not all that bothered about the Tesla car range, though I hope they release something I like at some point.

compute_me 10y ago
Let's hope that this was a genuine iPhone 1 moment! :)

philipkglass 10y ago

I had serious misgivings when Tesla/SolarCity announced a switch of focus to building-integrated PV. Historically, BIPV is where a PV technology goes to die after it's failed to compete against incumbent module designs. But these have far better aesthetics than previous BIPV efforts. They look better individually and they aren't clumped in one odd shiny patch on the roof like past BIPV. Search for images of solar shingles and you'll see what I mean about previous attempts. On Friday's thread someone here mentioned the 30% tax credit for solar installations. That made the financial proposition click for me. If the whole roof qualifies as a solar system, that's probably how they can make it financially attractive. Unlike past module-atop-roof or even patch-of-roof-BIPV offerings, you'd be able to get a tax credit for the whole shebang. Add the usual solar motivation of reducing retail electricity purchases, plus getting a roof that's more durable and attractive than the typical asphalt or wood shingles of American roofs, and it looks like Tesla/SC may have a better offering than competitors for new home builds in areas with lots of sun and expensive electricity. It wouldn't take a whole lot of builds per year to soak up all the capacity of their Buffalo factory. Just a few days ago I was saying that I couldn't see how any of the solar installation or manufacturing companies were going to build decent, defensible profit margins because panels and installation services are so commoditized. This could be the advantage that was missing: assuming decent patent coverage, SC will be able to have a monopoly on these modules and their installation for a long time to come.

Jugurtha 10y ago
>Search for images of solar shingles and you'll see what I mean about previous attempts. The first 9 images Google returned in the top 2 rows for "solar shingles" have 2 pictures from Tesla/SC's presentation. (~22%). The 3 top rows (13 images) contain 3 images from the presentation (~23%). It looks like you're right about the change to come.
- Maken 10y ago
  I just made the same search, and indeed several of the top images are from the Tesla presentation. However, what have surprised me more is discovering that"solar shingles" have been a thing for so much time, and there are already some quite decent looking models, even curved ones. Of course, I have never heard about it. Tesla marketing is really far ahead of everyone else.

smoyer 10y ago

If the solar shingles last far longer than my current shingles (which actually need to be replaced soon), what about the degradation of the solar cells themselves? Traditional PV panels degrade and have to be replaced sooner than many roofing materials.

jjawssd 10y ago
iirc 20 years is a typical rated lifespan of PV installations
denom 10y ago
In the linked video Elon mentions a "lifetime" of use. If that's true, then sign me up.
philipkglass 10y ago
There are a lot of different degradation mechanisms that affect silicon based PV modules. http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pdfs/pvrw2010_wohlgemuth_silicon.pdf http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pdfs/pvrw2010_wohlgemuth_s... Most typical failures are thermomechanical fatigue and chemical breakdown of encapsulant and backsheet materials. Musk said that these are made of quartz (vitreous silica?) which has a very low coefficient of thermal expansion and should reduce thermomechanical fatigue on connections. By all appearances these are glass on both sides, no backsheet polymer layer, hence no backsheet breakdown possible. These small modules are going to be more robust against mechanical damage than modules with larger surface areas. Both Silevo and Panasonic* base their cell technology on n-type monocrystalline silicon, which exhibits negligible light induced degradation over time (an optoelectronic effect which can gradually reduce efficiency of more common p-type cells). The glass-all-around design also eliminates the chances of potential induced degradation. The median degradation rate for crystalline silicon PV modules as a group is only 0.5% per year (meaning 86% of original rated output after 30 years) and these modules look like they can achieve significantly lower degradation rates than that. Poor execution can ruin any concept, of course, but these really look like they could work for several decades. *SolarCity acquired PV startup Silevo and originally intended to ramp the technology up to gigawatt manufacturing scale in a new factory in Buffalo, NY. More recently they've stated that Panasonic will run the Buffalo factory and the cell tech will be some kind of blend between Panasonic and Silevo; both companies' cell technology are based on heterojunction cell designs on n-type monocrystalline silicon substrates.

GregBuchholz 10y ago

I'm curious if anyone has stats on what percentage of houses have an unobstructed southern roof (for those in the Northern hemisphere)? My house has seasonally adjusted nanotechnology self-replicating shade "panels" that block considerable sunlight in the spring and summer months (MTBF: 100+ years). The big downside is cleaning up the unused panels in the autumn.

STRiDEX 10y ago
https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0 https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0
- GregBuchholz 10y ago
  Very cool! It seems like it worked for my place: "0 sq feet available for solar panels Based on 3D modeling of your roof and nearby trees"
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    I tried an address in Cave Creek AZ. 2000 hours of usable sunlight a year. 4664 sq ft available for panels. Total 20 year savings: $1,000. Seems... underwhelming. Oh, this is for a lease. $2,000 if you have to borrow to install the panels. Still... $100/yr? The only worthwhile benefit is you can afford to pay $21,000 out of pocket.
    - Udik 10y ago
      Does it also give you how much you would have made if you had invested the equivalent of the roof panels cost on the stock market?
    - rconti 10y ago
      Those numbers sound way off. My house in Redwood City, CA: 1873 hours of usable sunlight 1561 sqft available for panels (ain't no Cave Creek mansion!) $9000 savings. I left my electric bill at the default $100 estimate, which is close enough. They only defaulted to 3.5kw system for me, I assume based on my electric costs. 247 sqft. Maybe your costs were too low. There's no way an electric bill on a cave creek mansion is $100/mo. Their rates are lower, but the A/C will kill you. Once I moved the slider to $500/mo it estimates $89,000 savings, for example.

lets-tryagain 10y ago

I am in the market for a new roof...but I have a steep-pitch roof with a bunch of weird little valleys. Roofers charge people with roofs like mine extra due to the pitch. Will I be able to actually find a roofer to do this? Will it be remotely cost effective? I have been quoted $30k or so for my roof. My utility bills are low(ish)...I am far more worried about a roof doing what a roof should do - keep water out. Do these shingles actually stand up to bad weather? Will roof repair people walk on them? Will they work on a high-pitch roof? My feeling is that a slick surface like glass won't work on a steep pitch since roofers now need to use spiked shoes on my roof when they walk on it

jlebrech 10y ago

it's more like the manufacturing process is what makes this product unique, not the product itself.

wojcech 10y ago

I'm sure i'm not the only one who feels like this is possibly the iphone moment of Solarcity/Tesla: an old-ish idea, made sexy and tasty to consumers, together with technology reaching a tipping point(and also Musk again finding a way to maximally exploit government subsidies for clean tech.) The tesla car itself could count as well, but felt less "design driven" imo. If this fails, everyone will call it obviously due to bad tech. If it succeeds, I'd say it was because the tech was barely sufficient to keep up with the excellent luster. On a side note, I wonder whether or not the heavy government subsidies will be forgotten in the lore of clean tech, just like silicon valley seems to have forgotten the complete and utter reliance on government funding in it's infancy(or possibly even today)

aerovistae 10y ago
Another side note: it always annoys me when people insinuate that Musk using government funds is a bad thing. The government is literally just US....it's our money and a collection of individuals from among us who we've appointed to handle the general administration of us and the space we take up. Why should American entrepreneurs, particularly ones doing such an outstanding job of moving technology in a positive direction, not get our financial support (a.k.a. the government's support)? Who exactly is losing out when we support our own business initiatives with our own money?
- baby_wipe 10y ago
  -
  - robbrown451 10y ago
    Yes, one is game theoretically stable, and one isn't. (the one that isn't is individuals voluntarily giving money to things where the benefit is shared by all)
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Indeed. Tesla is a stellar example of using government money responsibly and for exactly the purpose it was intended to.

davidklemke 10y ago

It will be interesting to see how it competes against more traditional solar systems. Right now I can get a 10KW system, with an inverter and installation, all for AUD$9000. If Tesla could be competitive at that price point, both in terms of raw cost and the capacity of the system installed, then I'd be all over it. Otherwise I might just go the regular route as not many people look at my roof. Heck I barely do!

JoelBennett 10y ago

I'm curious - I still haven't seen any details on how these are installed. How are things wired - does the wiring run under the shingles themselves? Also, how does it work with odd sized/shaped roofs - e.g.: something that isn't exactly a multiple of 1/2 a shingle?

mrtron 10y ago
I expect for the odd sized they would have border shingles that match and are easily cut. Wiring seems like one of the hardest things to get right with these, especially given the environmental conditions!
erikpukinskis 10y ago
There are probably electrified tracks which are screwed down onto the rafters, similar to the way wooden risers* are put down for clay tiles to attach to. The tiles attach using metal clips or nails. SolarCity acquired Zep Solar a while back, who designed quick installation solar mounting systems. I assume they're using that team to design something fully integrated and fast to install. You'll probably just snap the tiles onto the rails after they are screwed (bolted?) down. The tracks would just plug into each other like Christmas lights. They said they're producing plain tiles without panels inside for edge pieces and north/east/west roof faces. * http://www.topnotchgenconstruction.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/clay-tile-2.jpg http://www.topnotchgenconstruction.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

robterrell 10y ago

Side topic, but I wonder if there's a pivot point coming where household appliances could be offered in DC versions. It would be great to avoid the inverter efficiency loss / point of failure. Could there be a standard DC interior wiring system with line voltage for the fridge / dishwasher / laundry machines and let's say LED lights, phone chargers, etc? The need for AC power is just an artifact of long transmission distances, right?

rb808 10y ago
Wow yeah would be great to have an global standard wall socket as well. Eg take you TV/PC/lamp from US to Europe and plug straight in...
Filligree 10y ago
High-voltage DC is actually more efficient for long-distance transport, and makes it easier to interconnect grids. Efficiency is not why we use AC. Installation cost and history is, because you need converters everywhere you connect it to an AC grid. Up until recently a lot of standard pieces of equipment weren't practical for HVDC lines. Electrical breakers, for instance: They existed, but tended to have short lifespans. That's because DC lines never go to zero power, whereas AC lines do so a hundred times per second. Modern technology has changed that. The equipment is still more expensive, but that would be made up for by the reduced transmission losses... if we were starting from scratch. We're not.
- deleted 10y ago
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lovemenot 10y ago
A few years ago the Economist argued that USB is already becoming just such a domestic DC standard. http://www.economist.com/news/international/21588104-humble-usb-cable-part-electrical-revolution-it-will-make-power-supplies http://www.economist.com/news/international/21588104-humble-...

jomamaxx 10y ago

Note to HN posters: do not dare criticize Pope Musk or any of his Holy Products, lest you risk a million down votes. FYI - I'm not a building expert, but I come from a large family of builders and grew up in a hardware store / lumber yard. I also looked into getting solar roofing (fleetingly) for a family friend. At least three years ago - the costs were nowhere near manageable for Ontario homes. So we'll see how this works out.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
Obligatory reminder to HN posters: do not comment on your own downvotes lest you attract more downvotes.
Mz 10y ago
You look to have been downvoted probably one time. I suggest you delete this comment while you still can. The other comment has only been up for 15 minutes. There is still plenty of time for someone else to decide to upvote it for some reason.
- jomamaxx 10y ago
  Sorry, I should have added that Musk bit as an addendum to my first comment - and it's a reflection from previous experience, not from any activity on the comment I made on this thread. I could care less about my 'HN karma' -> it's meaningless to me. I made the comment purely in jest.
  - Mz 10y ago
    "Purely in jest" is probably not the right phrasing if it is based on long experience, thus a sincere prediction of the likely outcome. I get what you are going for, but, my experiences suggest that if you want to take a position that opposes that of the majority view of the group in question, this sort of commentary is extremely counterproductive. Not that you need to care. I am just someone who likes talking with people and you made the mistake of talking to me, so I am now talking to you. (shrugs)
10y ago

OliverJones 10y ago

"No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming" Let's rephrase that headline. "No one to whom a lazy journalist named Tom Randall spoke saw Tesla's Solar Roof Coming."

erikpukinskis 10y ago
Everyone knew it was going to be a solar roof. Musk said so. What no one predicted was that what they actually introduced, which is roof tiles indistinguishable from slate or terracotta. The headline is about the specific Tesla Solar Roof, not the general idea of a Tesla solar roof.

hnnicker 10y ago

When adding traditional PV panels to my house a few years ago, I talked to the designer about PV shingles. He said the problem is that PVs are black and get hot in the sun. Traditional panels are raised a few inches above the roof with a gap that allows air flow (stack effect) to cool the panel. Also, the panel shades the roof, keeping the attic cooler (less A/C). With shingles, when they get hot, the attic gets hot (more A/C).

gotthemwmds 10y ago

hahahahahahah what? nobody saw it coming when elon musk owns solar f'ing factory? dumbest headline.

sctb 10y ago
Please don't comment like this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

deleted 10y ago

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patrickg_zill 10y ago

Asphalt shingles need to be replaced, depending on climate and other factors that cause them to degrade, every 10(?) to 20 years. Thus at least 5% of the total roofing market in existing residential houses, is a potential customer each year.

majewsky 10y ago
Assuming that everyone uses asphalt shingles, which is definitely not the case. For example, the German Wikipedia article for asphalt shingles describes them as "a typical GDR roofing". Germans tend to prefer clay/ceramic tiles on their homes, which can easily last 50 years and more.
- patrickg_zill 10y ago
  The asphalt shingles are very popular in the USA, which is what I assumed their first market would be, since contractors apparently have to be trained in their installation.
  - majewsky 10y ago
    That seems likely. I just wanted to point out that the market looks quite different in other countries.

walrus01 10y ago

Nobody expects the spanish tiled roof inquisition!

myrandomcomment 10y ago

My wife and I purchased a house in 2015 and remodel it. The roof is 25 years old and needs to be replaced. We have patched it up and have been holding off because I knew this was coming. Everything in the house is LED and Engerystar, etc. The 2 big power items are the hot tub and the heated floor in the bathroom. My power bill in my area has 3 levels and the 1st level is not enough for any reasonable usage. With the fully efficient house, removing the hot tub and heat floor I am still pushed to the 3 level of pricing which make my bill $300 per month. This as my new roof + the power wall is a no brainer for me. Where do I sign up ;)

prewett 10y ago

Pet peeve: meaningless projections into the far future. The "battery prices keep tumbling" chart is a complete fiction. They took two data points and extrapolated a smooth e^-x function, which portrays a untruthful appearance of accuracy. Two points fit whatever curve you want to fit. Including this graph is worse than having nothing. Question: how would I complain to Bloomberg about this?

Graphon1 10y ago
editor@bloomberg.com
erikpukinskis 10y ago
The range on the graph isn't necessarily the entirety of the data used for the model.

atmosx 10y ago

I wonder if this is a good time to buy solar city stock.

cybernytrix 10y ago

This is an awesome product and a big disruptor. Has anyone done the math on the revenues and profitability for Tesla? On the one hand it will sell for more than the typical 10-20K roof job. But then it is supposed to last 50years. What are the chances that Tesla will even be around in 50years?

erikpukinskis 10y ago
The way SolarCity works, you don't own the panels SolarCity does. So ostensibly you would finance the roof and then pay a locked in price per kWh which would be recurring revenue for Tesla even after the roof is paid off.

Udik 10y ago

I'm curious. From a global warming + CO2 perspective (and total costs, maybe), are we better off: - by making mirror roofs that bounce as much light as possible back towards the sky (therefore not trapping heat, and reducing the need for A/C in the summer); - or by using heat-trapping solar roofs that produce electricity but act as heat-sinks and require more A/C usage in the summer? And what about shingles that go from mirror to black from summer to winter, to decrease the need of winter heating as well as summer A/C? What if we take in account the amount of CO2 needed to manufacture the solar roof?

awqrre 10y ago

To me, the solar roof is the most interesting project coming out of Tesla so far... and of course it combines nicely with their other products. But when will it be available and for how much? I need to replace my roof soon.

brownbat 10y ago

Elon develops solar and rocket tech with a company named after an inventor known for wireless power transmission. Alright, fine, how long until Tesla launches satellite power systems?

gwbas1c 10y ago

You've got to be kidding!!! Just look at those ugly solar panels on roofs, and it becomes obvious that someone is going to make solar shingles. I've been joking with my family that someone will come out with solar shingles in the next few years. Obvious!

lxmorj 10y ago

I wonder - if you run current through these when they're covered with snow, will they heat up and melt it away?

dimfeld 10y ago
Musk recently posted to Twitter about using dedicated heating elements in the tiles for this purpose: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/792218248917811204 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/792218248917811204
timv 10y ago
From the article: It can also be fitted with heating elements to melt snow in colder climates (not quite "run current through", but ...)

intrasight 10y ago

What I find most clever about these roof panels is that is will likely silence a lot of HOA critics. While more and more states are considering "solar rights" laws, it is still better for all involved not to have to fight that battle.

jonstewart 10y ago
I live in a historic preservation district, with a south-sloping roof. I'm not permitted to put up solar panels because they'd be visible from the street, but these have a chance of getting past the historic preservation authorities. That would be fantastic.

maximilianburke 10y ago

I would really like something like this, however the roof of my house has a really shallow pitch which makes it unsuitable for tiled roofs, be it glass (solar), ceramic, or asphalt. I guess panels are still an option, though it would be nice to never worry about the roof again :)

jaggederest 10y ago
A well made flat roof (for your low pitch) should last close to 50 years. They're commonly more expensive but much more durable than pitched roofing. I'd probably consult with the solar folks before getting your roof redone though. You'll probably save money if you make sure the roofers and the solar installers are coordinating correctly before either goes to work.

patkai 10y ago

I think I understand what Musk is doing, but I need to ask: what is everybody else doing? Soon all innovation will be Tesla/

ZeroGravitas 10y ago

Is there a solution where you just use existing panels as giant tiles instead of putting them on top of an existing roof? I can imagine say a carport, which is tilted so that you don't really see what it's made from (though I've seen relatively cool looking solar panels anyway). Might work on modern new builds too. Seems like there would be a market for that a well as these "fake" tiles that seem sized based on the traditional materials.

ZeroGravitas 10y ago

There's some new houses being built near me that were designed from the start to have solar panels built into the roof. The panels are inset so they roughly along with the tiles around them and the panels themselves appear black so blend in color-wise too. You can see the panels but they're not actively ugly, which seems a good compromise. This seems like more a Tesla level solution, where you're paying a premium but it's better than a normal roof. The ones near me are the GM Bolt solution, where it's about as aesthetically pleasing as any other generic home and are priced accordingly. It's probably good to have solutions at multiple price points though.

speby 10y ago

This is really nice to see an innovation on something "old but new again" like a roof. Roofs are not exactly the industry/product space we see a lot of innovation in lately. The typical asphalt/cedar/steel/terracotta roofs we know of today have mostly been serving the needs of homeowners reasonably well for a very long time. Tying to beat those materials out on functionality, cost, reliability, and longevity is a tall order, to be sure. Mixing in the ability to grab the sun's energy and use it to power your home and mechanicals and devices is a compelling option. But because electricity is electricity is electricity (To most people) the economics of this are going to be absolutely key. Whereas the iPhone really did bring significant usability innovations to people's lives, as in the ability to do new and useful things that were previously harder or more annoying in the past, this type of roof doesn't necessarily provide more functionality. Though the heated roof certainly could be useful in cold climates. But again, I think that the economics are going to be very critical to seeing wider adoption for this.