13 ms·

$2,999 and the best GPU option is a last-gen mobile card? The default 965M is a crappy budget card (half the performance of the 980M), and if you want the 980M

$2,999 and the best GPU option is a last-gen mobile card? The default 965M is a crappy budget card (half the performance of the 980M), and if you want the 980M you have to pick the $4,199 configuration. And hybrid drives!? This thing starts at $2,199 and you can't even get a full SSD? I know 2D designers probably won't mind the GPU, but they could definitely benefit from a true SSD. Hell, the recently announced Razer Blade Pro has top of the line everything (including a desktop GTX 1080 GPU, 1TB SSD, and 4K screen suitable for photo/video editing) and it still costs less than the 980M Surface Studio: https://www.wired.com/2016/10/razer-blade-pro-laptop/ https://www.wired.com/2016/10/razer-blade-pro-laptop/ I must be missing the value proposition here because that price seems absurd, especially for a computer presumably geared towards professionals.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
thisisdallas 10y ago
> I must be missing the value proposition here The screen.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- IBM 10y ago
  Lower resolution than a 5K iMac
  - thisisdallas 10y ago
    That's true? That doesn't mean it's not still a good screen though.
  - mmanfrin 10y ago
    Is the 5K iMac a touchscreen?
    - rickyc091 10y ago
      Not sure if this was a troll or a question. If it was a question, the 5k is not a touchscreen. The Microsoft Surface Studio is though.
      - mmanfrin 10y ago
        It was neither, it was a rhetorical question since the comment I responded to was discounting the value of the Studio's screen because it didn't have as much resolution as the 5k iMac.
- gthtjtkt 10y ago
  Then sell the screen itself. Why chain it to mediocre, non-upgradeable hardware?
  - KirinDave 10y ago
    Perhaps because this machine is basically a very big platform for professional input methods. If you have no need of a stylus and a large working space for media with flexible positioning factor... Then you're not the target market. What's more, when we're talking about the professional space it's like... it's quite normal to NOT have hyper-upgradable boxes with cutting edge hardware that isn't well supported by the current crop of editing tools. Cutting edge hardware is the product of Dentists and Software Engineers who fancy themselves a member of that space even though they're really not. Not unlike how professional photographers almost never ride the latest model release. It seems like a lot of people here are thinking of this as a recreational gaming box for rich people. Surface machines in general perform poorly there.
  - serg_chernata 10y ago
    Works for Apple. I'm only trolling a little bit. :)
  - gregmac 10y ago
    I guess because when you inevitably go to upgrade the hardware in a couple years, you'll have to buy a new screen, too. Works for Apple. Seems to be working so far for the "Smart TV" market. I don't get it myself, but then I have not owned a completely "new" desktop in over 15 years, even though my desktop PC is full of modern components (and I'm fairly sure at this point, not a single piece that was in the original is left, including the case). I'm not the type of person who thinks "Hm, I need more disk space. Guess I better throw out my PC, monitor and keyboard and buy a completely new system." but I think this is aimed at the segment of the market that thinks that way, or at least is willing to in order to get the new input/interaction features.
    - rickyc091 10y ago
      This is actually targeting illustrators and people who typically work with large wacoms (cintiq). The true display 1:1 ratio is amazing for checking designs for letterheads, business cards, etc. The process typically involves printing it out and doing side by side comparisons. They probably went with the hybrid storage since PSD / illustration files take up an enormous amount of space. Unfortunately there's no such thing as git for design. The SSD would be appreciated, but once Adobe Photoshop or Illustrator is opened, SSD makes little difference. From a feature aspect the surface dial seems pretty amazing. Ill be interested in trying it out at the store. The ability to go from desktop to working directly on it is also incredible. Cintiqs take up a lot of space...
j2bax 10y ago
It's probably more than adequate for most professionals. I don't think they are pegging it as a gaming machine, or a render machine/farm. The graphics capabilities, similar to the mobile graphics chips in iMac's and MacBook Pro's will probably serve the vast majority of graphics professionals just fine.
tw04 10y ago
The fact you're focusing on the hardware specs while completely dismissing the form factor tells me you're not the target market.
- rubber_duck 10y ago
  Sorry but unless this is a glorified exec office decoration, professionals care about the specs very much, especially at that resolution and price tag
  - porkloin 10y ago
    I work in an office of graphic designers, and they all have overpowered hardware that they bought thinking they needed the latest and greatest to run Photoshop and Illustrator. They don't need a breakneck GPU - they need a device like this that gives them new, intuitive input options. That said, for any kind of 3D development this hardware isn't up to snuff. Anyway, the device seems more targeted at 2D graphic designers.
    - mixedCase 10y ago
      They do need high end hardware. They just have much better use for 128GB of RAM than for a GTX 1080. It's misplaced priorities due to lack of knowledge, not that they don't benefit from high-end hardware.
    - monk_e_boy 10y ago
      Agree 100% there are thousands of offices out there with photoshop monkeys making web pages, signs, adverts, car wraps, promotional material, etc etc all of who would love to have one of these. All those ageing iMacs need to replaced soon.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - rubber_duck 10y ago
        With 3-4k$ devices ? You can get two iMacs for that.
bkolobara 10y ago
This! Why design this amazing display and put such an awful GPU inside? The GTX1000 series performs way better (especially GPGPU professional apps), is more power efficient and has only a minor price difference. At this price it is a deal breaker for me. And I'm like exactly their target audience for this.
- wmf 10y ago
  I suspect this computer took a while to develop and the 1080 wasn't available at that time.
- criddell 10y ago
  > I'm like exactly their target audience for this. If you are concerned with graphics performance, you are not their target market.
- blahblah12 10y ago
  Do you guys actually know designers and illustrators? Seriously.
- iamphilrae 10y ago
  That's next year's upgrade. This year it's the feature screen, next year it's the performance boost. Keep that marketing department ticking over.
zerstroyer 10y ago
Would be cool if you could connect a real machine to the display and touchscreen, would that be possible with the DisplayPort?
- siidooloo 10y ago
  You can already get a Wacom and attach it to a random computer.
  - smrtinsert 10y ago
    Which is like saying my blackberry had a physical keyboard why do I need an iphone 3g.
kayoone 10y ago
typical HN naysayer, if Apple did this everyone would be raving about it. Maybe you missed that the screen also includes a Wacom digitizer ? Compare the price to a 27" Wacom Cintiq and it might make more sense to you. Other than that it's gorgeous, GPU performance is adequate for the usecase, better than the 5K iMac anyway.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  Is it a Wacom or nTrig? I haven't really spent much time with nTrig based Surface models, but the Wacom in my Surface Pro 1 really sucks at the edges.
- jff 10y ago
  No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
- lifeformed 10y ago
  I'd rather have it just be a nicer Cintiq that I plug into a proper desktop.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- sidgup 10y ago
  Yup. My thoughts exactly. Typical Apple fanboy camp. This truly reminds me of how Android camp always pointed to the specs and completely overlooked the design, form and function of iPhones. Irony that the Apple camp is now doing that to the competition :)
atourgates 10y ago
The value proposition is the responsive touch-screen. The closest responsive touch screen you can buy today is a 27" Wacom Cintiq, which is $2,299 without a computer, and both lower-resolution (2560x1440 vs 4500x3000) and smaller (27" vs 28") than the Surface Studio. So if you assume that about $2,300 of the device's costs go to the display and touch screen, you're paying ~$700 for the actual machine driving that display, which isn't a great value, but isn't bad at all. A terrible value for people who aren't interested in the display, but not bad for people who are.
- lifeformed 10y ago
  I wish the Surface Pro was just the screen hardware that you can plug into a proper desktop.
  - DAllison 10y ago
    Have you tried/considered the screen extension feature in the Windows 10 Anniversary Update?
    - naavis 10y ago
      Huh, I never even knew about this. I guess you mean this under the title "How to Mirror Your Windows 10 Screen to Another Windows 10 Device": http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/turn-windows-10-pc-into-wirelss-display http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/turn-windows-10-pc-into-wi... I wasn't able to get it working yet, though.
      - DAllison 10y ago
        I haven't used it myself (no second Windows 10 PC), but that sounds correct. I believe it's designed to let you use your Surface as an external monitor with pen/touch support for another Windows 10 PC.
- usaphp 10y ago
  > "you're paying ~$700 for the actual machine driving that display" ~$700 gets you a pretty basic computer with 965m, you can build a desktop with gtx 1070 for 700$ to power a wacom display. And you will be able to upgrade it in the future, with Studio you are stuck with a 965m for $3000. And if you are getting a 980m for $4200 that leaves you with a $1900 to build a computer for Wacom, which can be way more powerful than 980m... I think Microsoft should have sell that monitor by itself, but I guess this way they could not shovel win10 updates down your throat so it is not a good option for them...
smrtinsert 10y ago
Have you used a hybrid? They work pretty well. Unless you're just churning through file after file you'll be fine. As for the rest of it, no designer cares about previous gen stuff - if they didn't they wouldn't have gone to macs in the first place.
- kartickv 10y ago
  Hybrid drives don't always work well. The one in my iMac did, until I reinstalled macOS and then restored from a Time Machine backup, and now I get hard disc speeds, with a second or two delay to (say) open a small file, rather than instantly as with an SSD, as was the case before. It's been a week or two, and I don't know why Fusion Drive didn't optimise the data placement to move frequently used files to the SSD.
alkonaut 10y ago
The 10X0M cards are perhaps too recent, or the extra 20-30W (?) blew the envelope. I'd definitely get the least powerful graphics card for a machine like this, just to minimize the noise. I can put a real graphics card in my gaming rig, this one is for illustrator. Re: price - I'm thinking the digitizer and screen is the whole reason for the price. It would be good if the box could be updated while keeping the screen.
NetStrikeForce 10y ago
> I must be missing the value proposition here(...) Courage.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
aq3cn 10y ago
Wacom Cintiq 27QHD 27 In. Creative Pen & Touch Display by Wacom $2,799.95 https://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Cintiq-27QHD-Creative-Display/dp/B00R7QJAHY/ https://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Cintiq-27QHD-Creative-Display/d...
3327 10y ago
Microsoft likes to get shit out the door and gen3 is typically the good one. so wait 2 generations.
sidgup 10y ago
Wow so much hate. The tilting screen, a phenomenal display that looks sexy, specs to match the intended graphic workload and all you could see were "specs".

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

thisisdallas 10y ago

> I must be missing the value proposition here The screen.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
IBM 10y ago
Lower resolution than a 5K iMac
- thisisdallas 10y ago
  That's true? That doesn't mean it's not still a good screen though.
- mmanfrin 10y ago
  Is the 5K iMac a touchscreen?
  - rickyc091 10y ago
    Not sure if this was a troll or a question. If it was a question, the 5k is not a touchscreen. The Microsoft Surface Studio is though.
    - mmanfrin 10y ago
      It was neither, it was a rhetorical question since the comment I responded to was discounting the value of the Studio's screen because it didn't have as much resolution as the 5k iMac.
gthtjtkt 10y ago
Then sell the screen itself. Why chain it to mediocre, non-upgradeable hardware?
- KirinDave 10y ago
  Perhaps because this machine is basically a very big platform for professional input methods. If you have no need of a stylus and a large working space for media with flexible positioning factor... Then you're not the target market. What's more, when we're talking about the professional space it's like... it's quite normal to NOT have hyper-upgradable boxes with cutting edge hardware that isn't well supported by the current crop of editing tools. Cutting edge hardware is the product of Dentists and Software Engineers who fancy themselves a member of that space even though they're really not. Not unlike how professional photographers almost never ride the latest model release. It seems like a lot of people here are thinking of this as a recreational gaming box for rich people. Surface machines in general perform poorly there.
- serg_chernata 10y ago
  Works for Apple. I'm only trolling a little bit. :)
- gregmac 10y ago
  I guess because when you inevitably go to upgrade the hardware in a couple years, you'll have to buy a new screen, too. Works for Apple. Seems to be working so far for the "Smart TV" market. I don't get it myself, but then I have not owned a completely "new" desktop in over 15 years, even though my desktop PC is full of modern components (and I'm fairly sure at this point, not a single piece that was in the original is left, including the case). I'm not the type of person who thinks "Hm, I need more disk space. Guess I better throw out my PC, monitor and keyboard and buy a completely new system." but I think this is aimed at the segment of the market that thinks that way, or at least is willing to in order to get the new input/interaction features.
  - rickyc091 10y ago
    This is actually targeting illustrators and people who typically work with large wacoms (cintiq). The true display 1:1 ratio is amazing for checking designs for letterheads, business cards, etc. The process typically involves printing it out and doing side by side comparisons. They probably went with the hybrid storage since PSD / illustration files take up an enormous amount of space. Unfortunately there's no such thing as git for design. The SSD would be appreciated, but once Adobe Photoshop or Illustrator is opened, SSD makes little difference. From a feature aspect the surface dial seems pretty amazing. Ill be interested in trying it out at the store. The ability to go from desktop to working directly on it is also incredible. Cintiqs take up a lot of space...

j2bax 10y ago

It's probably more than adequate for most professionals. I don't think they are pegging it as a gaming machine, or a render machine/farm. The graphics capabilities, similar to the mobile graphics chips in iMac's and MacBook Pro's will probably serve the vast majority of graphics professionals just fine.

tw04 10y ago

The fact you're focusing on the hardware specs while completely dismissing the form factor tells me you're not the target market.

rubber_duck 10y ago
Sorry but unless this is a glorified exec office decoration, professionals care about the specs very much, especially at that resolution and price tag
- porkloin 10y ago
  I work in an office of graphic designers, and they all have overpowered hardware that they bought thinking they needed the latest and greatest to run Photoshop and Illustrator. They don't need a breakneck GPU - they need a device like this that gives them new, intuitive input options. That said, for any kind of 3D development this hardware isn't up to snuff. Anyway, the device seems more targeted at 2D graphic designers.
  - mixedCase 10y ago
    They do need high end hardware. They just have much better use for 128GB of RAM than for a GTX 1080. It's misplaced priorities due to lack of knowledge, not that they don't benefit from high-end hardware.
  - monk_e_boy 10y ago
    Agree 100% there are thousands of offices out there with photoshop monkeys making web pages, signs, adverts, car wraps, promotional material, etc etc all of who would love to have one of these. All those ageing iMacs need to replaced soon.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - rubber_duck 10y ago
      With 3-4k$ devices ? You can get two iMacs for that.

bkolobara 10y ago

This! Why design this amazing display and put such an awful GPU inside? The GTX1000 series performs way better (especially GPGPU professional apps), is more power efficient and has only a minor price difference. At this price it is a deal breaker for me. And I'm like exactly their target audience for this.

wmf 10y ago
I suspect this computer took a while to develop and the 1080 wasn't available at that time.
criddell 10y ago
> I'm like exactly their target audience for this. If you are concerned with graphics performance, you are not their target market.
blahblah12 10y ago
Do you guys actually know designers and illustrators? Seriously.
iamphilrae 10y ago
That's next year's upgrade. This year it's the feature screen, next year it's the performance boost. Keep that marketing department ticking over.

zerstroyer 10y ago

Would be cool if you could connect a real machine to the display and touchscreen, would that be possible with the DisplayPort?

siidooloo 10y ago
You can already get a Wacom and attach it to a random computer.
- smrtinsert 10y ago
  Which is like saying my blackberry had a physical keyboard why do I need an iphone 3g.

kayoone 10y ago

typical HN naysayer, if Apple did this everyone would be raving about it. Maybe you missed that the screen also includes a Wacom digitizer ? Compare the price to a 27" Wacom Cintiq and it might make more sense to you. Other than that it's gorgeous, GPU performance is adequate for the usecase, better than the 5K iMac anyway.

slantyyz 10y ago
Is it a Wacom or nTrig? I haven't really spent much time with nTrig based Surface models, but the Wacom in my Surface Pro 1 really sucks at the edges.
jff 10y ago
No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
lifeformed 10y ago
I'd rather have it just be a nicer Cintiq that I plug into a proper desktop.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sidgup 10y ago
Yup. My thoughts exactly. Typical Apple fanboy camp. This truly reminds me of how Android camp always pointed to the specs and completely overlooked the design, form and function of iPhones. Irony that the Apple camp is now doing that to the competition :)

atourgates 10y ago

The value proposition is the responsive touch-screen. The closest responsive touch screen you can buy today is a 27" Wacom Cintiq, which is $2,299 without a computer, and both lower-resolution (2560x1440 vs 4500x3000) and smaller (27" vs 28") than the Surface Studio. So if you assume that about $2,300 of the device's costs go to the display and touch screen, you're paying ~$700 for the actual machine driving that display, which isn't a great value, but isn't bad at all. A terrible value for people who aren't interested in the display, but not bad for people who are.

lifeformed 10y ago
I wish the Surface Pro was just the screen hardware that you can plug into a proper desktop.
- DAllison 10y ago
  Have you tried/considered the screen extension feature in the Windows 10 Anniversary Update?
  - naavis 10y ago
    Huh, I never even knew about this. I guess you mean this under the title "How to Mirror Your Windows 10 Screen to Another Windows 10 Device": http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/turn-windows-10-pc-into-wirelss-display http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/turn-windows-10-pc-into-wi... I wasn't able to get it working yet, though.
    - DAllison 10y ago
      I haven't used it myself (no second Windows 10 PC), but that sounds correct. I believe it's designed to let you use your Surface as an external monitor with pen/touch support for another Windows 10 PC.
usaphp 10y ago
> "you're paying ~$700 for the actual machine driving that display" ~$700 gets you a pretty basic computer with 965m, you can build a desktop with gtx 1070 for 700$ to power a wacom display. And you will be able to upgrade it in the future, with Studio you are stuck with a 965m for $3000. And if you are getting a 980m for $4200 that leaves you with a $1900 to build a computer for Wacom, which can be way more powerful than 980m... I think Microsoft should have sell that monitor by itself, but I guess this way they could not shovel win10 updates down your throat so it is not a good option for them...

smrtinsert 10y ago

Have you used a hybrid? They work pretty well. Unless you're just churning through file after file you'll be fine. As for the rest of it, no designer cares about previous gen stuff - if they didn't they wouldn't have gone to macs in the first place.

kartickv 10y ago
Hybrid drives don't always work well. The one in my iMac did, until I reinstalled macOS and then restored from a Time Machine backup, and now I get hard disc speeds, with a second or two delay to (say) open a small file, rather than instantly as with an SSD, as was the case before. It's been a week or two, and I don't know why Fusion Drive didn't optimise the data placement to move frequently used files to the SSD.

alkonaut 10y ago

The 10X0M cards are perhaps too recent, or the extra 20-30W (?) blew the envelope. I'd definitely get the least powerful graphics card for a machine like this, just to minimize the noise. I can put a real graphics card in my gaming rig, this one is for illustrator. Re: price - I'm thinking the digitizer and screen is the whole reason for the price. It would be good if the box could be updated while keeping the screen.

NetStrikeForce 10y ago

> I must be missing the value proposition here(...) Courage.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

aq3cn 10y ago

Wacom Cintiq 27QHD 27 In. Creative Pen & Touch Display by Wacom $2,799.95 https://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Cintiq-27QHD-Creative-Display/dp/B00R7QJAHY/ https://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Cintiq-27QHD-Creative-Display/d...

3327 10y ago

Microsoft likes to get shit out the door and gen3 is typically the good one. so wait 2 generations.

sidgup 10y ago

Wow so much hate. The tilting screen, a phenomenal display that looks sexy, specs to match the intended graphic workload and all you could see were "specs".