15 ms·
Laid off (2008)
- jasonkester 10y ago"Internet Points" are a strange thing. This is the 4th article that people have submitted from my blog in the last hour, evidently hoping to score some points off the success of the other thing I have on the front page and thus be able to... well... there must be some benefit I'm not aware of. But sure. It's fun to watch, and I'm happy for the traffic. Here's a link to the original discussion for this article, which actually turns out to be one of the first things that put Hacker News on to my radar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=184930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=184930 It's also one of my personal favorites, so it's nice to see it get some renewed love.
- grzm 10y agoThat might be part of it. Could also be that they're finding your content useful and want to share :)
- divbit 10y ago>This is the 4th article that people have submitted from my blog in the last hour I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are some people who run ml or simpler algorithms to suggest posts- I at one time experimented with this kind of stuff on Reddit (ShittyCommentBot sadly got banned for some reason, and now appears to be deleted (thankfully)) edit: Also- cool blog
- pzh 10y agoIs it possible that the auto-submit link that says "Discuss on hacker news" right after the article could be contributing to these submissions?
- titanomachy 10y agoHN points are particularly useless as far as internet points go. You're the one who benefits, assuming you value the exposure.
- iou 10y agoLol, where is the faucet for these "Internet points"? I need some!
- chinese_dan 10y agoIt sounds great in theory, but if you aren't careful, you will come back with less motivation and skills than you had before you left. I lived in Asia for a few years as a digital nomad of sorts. My only means of income was freelance software development. It only worked for me because I have excellent discipline, but most expats I met had a lifestyle of: drinking, partying, smoking weed, and not doing everything possible to not have a regular job. The long-term expats (more that 5 years) were a pretty miserable bunch a well. While this is fun, it's a rude awakening when you have to come back to the real world and actually make a living and you have been left in the dust. I know a few people that had to move back in with their parents because they couldn't find work after their travel experience. ..and involving your kids? A bad idea. Many governments do not offer you the same protections and rights that you have in the USA. It's hard enough with couples, nearly impossible with kids.
- jasonkester 10y agoThe long-term expats (more that 5 years) were a pretty miserable bunch a well. Yeah, what's the deal with this, anyway? It's something I've noticed as well. The worst case seems to be US Expat Surfers living in Central America, preferably owning property there. None of those guys seem to have been surfing at all in the last month, but they're certainly quick to make sure you know you're not welcome intruding on their waves or taking up a table in their personal favorite bar. I was actually considering setting up shop down in Nicaragua at one point, but that factor quickly put me off. Check out the Expat Climbers you find in SE Asia for the counterpoint. Mostly nice folk leading pleasant lives in a pleasant part of the world and getting out on the rock all the time. Figure out what's causing the difference between those two groups and you'll have the secret to happiness.
- billy8988 10y agoAnother destination: India. If you are a female, then south India. You can stay at descent hotels in Bangalore or Chennai for $25/day. Another $20 per day for food. Watch how multinational IT companies treat their employees. Feel good about yourself and come back rejuvenated.
- solvedit 10y agoI don't spend $20/day on food in Boston or Paris. Does it really cost that in India? Are my nationalist blinders on? Somehow I imagined that it would be much cheaper there.
- parennoob 10y agoYou can easily spend a tenth of that and get good food in India if you eat at places where the average local person does. However, speaking as an Indian, most foreigners probably don't want to play that crapshoot, because there is always a chance you'll get sick due to lack of hygiene in food prep. The hotels that cater to Westerners typically charge a lot more, and rates are more comparable to hotels in a cheap European city. Theoretically, with them you get a guarantee of food that is prepared with better safety standards. Whether this is practically true I have no idea. Ironically, the cheapest way to live and eat in India would be to rent an apartment and get a trustworthy cook to come in and cook fresh food for you every day. Your daily bill will be way less than $20. However, setting this up requires a fair amount of legwork and contacts, which (understandably) someone who is looking for a vacation will not find attractive.
- tedmiston 10y ago> Ironically, the cheapest way to live and eat in India would be to rent an apartment and get a trustworthy cook to come in and cook fresh food for you every day. I met a seed-stage startup person who has this setup (somewhere in India) while traveling through a hostel in SF recently. Two meals cooked per day and cleaning. It sounded like a great setup and much more affordable than what that would cost in the US.
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- fidla 10y agoBTDT. He's right. Do it now. But if you're over 50 with kids you should probably look for that new job instead.
- dandare 10y agoYou mean over 30 with kids? Or should we dust the authentic developer cliche?
- yitchelle 10y agoAlternate plan is to take the kids and family with you and have a real adventure!
- sulam 10y agoKids have school to go to most of the time. Hope you got laid off in the summer or when they're less than 4! Scratch that, traveling with kids under 4 is not a vacation, it's a trip.
- mixmastamyk 10y agoI read a post about a French family that sailed to the South Pacific, home schooled all the way. It's a great education.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Zelphyr 10y ago> You're going to get blasted by 100 degree heat, power-wafted by smells of the most amazing street food one minute and an open sewer the next, assaulted with music from a thousand bars, and crammed into a tiny room overlooking it all with a fan that doesn't work. To each his/her own I guess but that doesn't sound appealing at all.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- kasey_junk 10y agoYou can replace that sentence with similar ones about hiking the AP trail, riding your bike from Portland to San Diego or building the biggest slip n slide in your neighborhood and the authors argument holds though.
- Zelphyr 10y agoI agree but the author seems to be very specific about traveling to Southeast Asia. Or Africa first, if its May/June. I actually like your ideas better!
- emodendroket 10y agoWell obviously whatever he did is the only sensible thing and if you don't do exactly the same you are a sucker.
- technofiend 10y agoMost of the time I'm with the comedienne that said "Roughing it is when room service answers on the second ring". What you described sounds like hell. I would visit for the street food and then Uber it back to the .
- donretag 10y agoTraveling is not for everyone, so it depends on your financial situation, but I do approve of the Africa recommendation. Absolutely loved southern Africa (South Africa up to Malawi).
- noname123 10y agoTangential, but I'm curious if people have any staycation ideas? For peeps who aren't laid off but just want to chillax at home. Isn't traveling to some exotic location after all about switching your scenery, breaking out of your routine to give yourself permission for the unconscious mind free to wander, reflect and renew? For instance, instead of going to Bangkok, for cuisine, the beach, nightlife and Buddhist temples, why not order something that you normally don't get at a Thai takeout menu and eat it at a place you normally wouldn't eat at, book a day-spa appointment at a local 5-star hotel instead of your local gym, go to a concert at a music venue you have been before (or other nightlife establishment you'd otherwise go to in SE Asia) and go to a local meditation/wellness center for sitting meditation or some other random place that induces meditation, reflection and all that "wanderlust" feeling evoked in traveling brochures. Try to schedule all of your appointments in a span of 3-4 days, give yourself permission to spend liberally as you'd at a normal vacation and resist the urges to do any of your usual routine you'd normally and take the following Monday or Friday off. Anyways would love to hear other people's staycation ideas or Sunday routines, similar to this: http://topics.nytimes.com/top/features/timestopics/series/sunday_routine/index.html http://topics.nytimes.com/top/features/timestopics/series/su... http://gawker.com/a-statistical-analysis-of-the-new-york-times-sunday-ro-1732094100 http://gawker.com/a-statistical-analysis-of-the-new-york-tim... More specially, not necessarily as a Sunday routine to prepare and get in gear for the upcoming week; but what do you guys do after a major stress event, burn-out, in midst of existential crisis, post-breakup, the hangover cure morning after going on an alcoholic, drug-induced or emotionally-induced bender; is it as simple as getting a latte espresso fix at your Starbucks or does it have to be flying out to Bangkok for a 6-month recovery getaway?
- pcsanwald 10y agoLearn a fun instrument. buy a drumset, take some lessons from a good local teacher, have a blast. Once you get some basic skills, playing drums or electric bass with your favorite record is a huge amount of fun. Or, learn to box or other fun sport. I've sparred with the author of the gawker article for many years every sunday.
- jasondebo 10y ago> For instance, instead of going to Bangkok, for cuisine, the beach, nightlife and Buddhist temples, why not order something that you normally don't get at a Thai takeout menu and eat it at a place you normally wouldn't eat at This reminds me of Huysmans Against Nature - a great book! https://www.amazon.com/Against-Nature-Joris-Karl-Huysmans/dp/1604596716 https://www.amazon.com/Against-Nature-Joris-Karl-Huysmans/dp...
- ryandrake 10y agoEDITing to soften the edge: > You have a pile of saving and a severance package. Well, there's your first bad assumption. Oh, wait, later you address this: > You can't possibly be serious. Are you saying that you've been working in IT for all these years and haven't put away a lousy ten grand??? Shame on you. Get a book on life skills and open a bank account fer cryin' out loud. OK, thanks for the lecture. I'm still not the audience for your advice. How to alienate an audience! Reminiscent of [1] and [2] 1: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/why-i-quit-my-job-to-travel-the-world http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/why-i-quit-my-jo... 2: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/i-took-a-big-pay-cut-to-follow-my-dream-says-patronising-wanker-20160803111779 http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/i-took-a-big-pay...
- cushychicken 10y agoI'd strongly advise you to reevaluate some things about your lifestyle if you haven't managed to save any of your IT salary.
- crush_xc 10y agostudent loans :( if I don't put as much towards it as I can after 401k I end up losing money.
- shoo 10y agopossible alternative explanations: 1. laid off after three months into your first job after an expensive education, still have negative net worth with a lot of student debt to pay off 2. unexpected events (e.g. serious medical ongoing problems requiring expensive treatment) completely wiped out savings 3. working somewhere for years that doesn't pay enough money beyond what's required to subsist. I've probably missed a bunch of other things. I'm lucky enough to: be in a country where student debt repayments are tied to income and managed by the government and there's no interest beyond an index for inflation; have never been laid off; live in a country with a functional public health system where health insurance is affordable; have no dependants; have never needed to pay for ongoing serious medical treatment for myself or another person; have always been paid enough (even in non-IT jobs) such that it is possible to save a bit of money.
- pmiller2 10y agoI'd like to submit a small correction: > But nobody will hire me after six months away... > Not true. Nobody will hire you if you're bad at what you do and have terrible interviewing skills. Instead of "...and have terrible interviewing skills," it should really be "...or have terrible interviewing skills." Being good at what you do and having good interview skills are very different things. I can't do much of anything with someone literally looking over my shoulder, or while being put on the spot in front of a whiteboard, but I'm 3.5 years into my career as a developer and doing just fine on the job.
- TeMPOraL 10y agoAlso great interviewing skills is a good way to paper over being bad at what you do.
- mathattack 10y agoAfter 6 months of unemployment, companies do start giving you glances. It's rare to get much more than that. Taking 6 months off can also put a big dent in your net worth if you have fixed expenses.
- whenwillitstop 10y agoWhat do you mean by glances? You mean they are suspicious of your work quality? They dont want to hire you? Or they just give you a quick glance (because of the gap) and hire you anyways?
- moises_silva 10y agoMay be is just me, but I can't possibly enjoy a vacation knowing I need to get back to look for a job. I much rather negotiate with my employer taking 3 to 6 months off without pay to go travel, or 3 to 6 months part time. Not an option for everyone, but if you're good and you're in a company that values you that's a very realistic option. I have a small kid and soon a mortgage, so what I will probably end up doing is negotiate part time working remotely for ~4 months so I can travel with my family.
- flukus 10y agoWhen I'm on holidays I don't want to think about money. If you don't have a job to go back to then how long your cash reserves will last is something you think about every time you pull your wallet out. Especially if you've got a mortgage, I imagine having kids would make it even worse.
- moises_silva 10y agoI am not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my comment. It does seem like we're saying kind of the same thing. May be you meant to post a parent comment? :)
- flukus 10y agoDefinitely agreeing :)
- rwallace 10y agoSo let's say you get laid off and you've got a year's worth of savings in the bank. Spending the next six months burning half of that with nothing but memories to show for it is really terrible advice! That stash of money is a precious asset. It's the thing that will obviate the need for any special mental tricks to take job interviews without fear and negotiate salary and working conditions from a strong bargaining position. I'm not saying you shouldn't spend six months in Thailand if that's what you want to do. But, unless you are already independently wealthy, only do it after you have arranged for some kind of income while you are there.
- sokoloff 10y agoWhat's the point of having a year's worth of savings if it's all sacrosanct? It's there to be spent on rainy days. I agree that sitting in a coffee shop drinking and smoking the days away isn't a good idea, but by all means take some time to decompress and get your head right after a blow to the ego and psyche that getting laid off might represent. 3 months in, you've still got more runway than most job seekers and can still interview and negotiate from a neutral position. You don't have to go walking in tail between your legs and begging for a job to put food on the table.
- rwallace 10y agoHuh, looks like that was very much not what people want to hear. Fine, it's your money and your life, do as you wish.
- cossatot 10y agoPut it in the bank and do it for 3x as long in your 60s
- totalZero 10y agoIf you do it in your thirties then the moments of self reflection and wealth of unfamiliar experiences will color the way you think for the rest of your life and career.
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- eljimmy 10y agoMy contract job ended abruptly recently and I'm now in this very situation. I put $10k away for an emergency fund to carry me through until my next gig. No children (someday!), no mortage/debt, no obligations. It's great! While I personally decided not to travel as I've done a lot of that in the past couple years, I have tried to just relax and enjoy the time off. I've been spending time learning new languages and frameworks, working out religiously, eating healthy, and just going with the flow of life. It's been great for my overall happiness. There's a quote that comes to mind after reading this article: "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
- mysterydip 10y agoI was laid off abruptly two months ago. It was a foreign situation to me; I had always lined up a bigger and better position. I was a bit like a fish out of water: filing for unemployment, sprucing up the resume, going to all the job boards. With a mortgage and a 14 month old, it was constantly on my mind. They gave me two months' severance, so that plus our emergency fund took a little of the heat off. I landed a job that, while not an immediate step up, has room for growth. What was nice was the extra time I had after say a half day of hitting the job boards and applying, to take my daughter to the park or help out with errands. In the evenings, I was able to focus on getting my latest game released on the app stores, which launched right before I started the new job. While I wouldn't want to repeat that scenario for a while, I'm grateful for it. It really opened up the possibilities of where I wanted to move next (career-wise and location-wise).
- j4pe 10y agoThis is terrible advice. I've lived the digital nomad life the author describes and worked in the areas he names [1], and his recommendation of Bangkok's Khao San Rd as a nice place to relax is alarming enough to cast doubt on everything else he says. Or perhaps he's just really into prostitutes. Regardless, there's a kernel of good advice here: take the opportunity to do something crazy, something outside the norm when laid off. Write, build, draw, compete, whatever it is you love that your job prevented you from doing all the time. It'll be far more rewarding during and after your unemployment than drinking cheap beers in foreign cafes for six months. 1: http://j4p3.com/the-digital-nomad http://j4p3.com/the-digital-nomad
- TheOneTrueKyle 10y agoYeah that stood out to me as well. Khao San road isn't the place you go to relax. However, I recommend going there during songkran at least once in your life.
- tim333 10y agoHe doesn't say go to Khao San to relax. He says go, grab a beer, chat to other travellers and make travel plans. Khao San is good for that. It's like the budget travel hub for SE Asia.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- taneq 10y ago> However, I recommend going there during songkran at least once in your life. Hah. Did this by accident, had no idea what was going on, it was mental. Pro tip: Don't carry any non-waterproof electronics with you. :P
- pragmatic 10y agoThe article is from 2008. Mayhaps the prostitute situation has changed?
- thesmallestcat 10y ago"Three Lame Excuses," or, a brief glance at the real world. I think I threw up a little reading the post (out of envy of course).
- jimmydddd 10y agoTaking six months or a year off and then jumping back into the work force was a lot different in (early) 2008 than it is now. Edit: Tim Ferriss said (in 2007) that employers will be impressed and amazed if you tell them that you took a year off to travel. In 2016, I don't think you would get a chance to tell them about it.
- brookside 10y agoYou think the time off would be more frowned upon today?
- jacalata 10y agoI did it in 2015, didn't have any trouble coming back and getting a job last October. Definitely a lot of people sounded amazed and impressed during interviews.
- jimmydddd 10y agoThat's great to hear. I've heard that many companies will just toss your resume if you've been out of work for a year or more.
- jacalata 10y agoWell, I was only out of work eight months so I can't say for sure that people don't cut off at 'a year'. But based on the reactions I got, I'd be quite surprised if that was a standard practice. I can imagine it being more likely if being out of work was 'I lost my job and couldn't find another one' instead of 'I quit my job to do x instead for a while'.
- emodendroket 10y agoI didn't really care for the tone of this piece and I think I'd have a lot harder time enjoying a vacation if I were worrying about the fact that I'd just been laid off.
- keyboardhitter 10y agoI got laid off recently. I took two weeks vacation; one week to see some friends in a place I love, and one week just to myself, to get all the errands done that I never had time for when working at the demanding startup job. My mind wandered far in vacation land, and it felt great. Yet, I felt my conscience nagging me. Because of that little mosquito-like feeling, I suspect that if I vacationed any longer, I wouldn't be doing my best in interviews now. To each their own, I suppose. The writer's long term suggestion really surprised me. Maybe I'm missing out on a feeling of true detachment and serenity? Hmmm.
- overgard 10y agoUgh, if you want to travel, then travel, but glorifying being a rich tourist in a poor country like it's some great calling that will cleanse your soul is obnoxious to me. I've traveled. I hate traveling. If I get laid off I'm going to read some books and practice painting.
- Animats 10y agoThere's the opposite extreme - go to Shentzen. Visit the shops that sell electronics parts. Take some factory tours. Meet people who are doing advanced electronics work in the back of a small shop. Buy a phone whose kernel was compiled three days ago. Get a sense of how stuff is made. “One week of work in Shenzhen is equal to one month at the Silicon Valley”.
- dasmoth 10y agoHow accessible is Shenzhen without existing connections there? Are, e.g., factory tours reasonably easy to organise?
- wyclif 10y agoI took this advice back in 2007 (I arrived at the conclusions he makes here on my own, one year earlier when the financial crisis was starting to emerge), but I didn't go to southeast Asia then, I went to Israel. And I met my future wife there for the first time. The year after that I got another job back in the States. So I think this was good advice for me.
- MrPatan 10y agoInterviewing well is part of your job. Let me say that again: Interviewing well is part of your job. You are not a good developer if you don't interview well, because by not interviewing well you just deprived that company of your skills. Now that code is worse. And it's your fault. Had you done your job (interviewing) properly, that code would be better. It's part of your job to show people how good you are. It's sales, yes. You know your product (you) very well and know how it would help the customer. So make sure you get that message across. Go read some books about sales. Get good at interviewing.
- Sumaso 10y agoI disagree. There are people that I know that might not interview well, but have a huge list of people that are willing to vouch for them, because they do great work.
- ojosilva 10y ago> By 9 months [traveling], I'm pretty much ready to commit to a real job in a real office just so that I can start using my brain again. I use my brain intensively while traveling. Lot's of brain functions are running at full throttle: cognition, language, problem solving, spacial, to name a few. I don't understand how can the OP feel that he's not using his brain while roaming the planet, specially developing countries where your day-to-day "templates" tend to apply the least.