8 ms·

Introducing Google Cloud Shell’s new code editor

173 points by rafaelm 10y ago

nawtacawp 10y ago
Orion. https://www.orionhub.org https://www.orionhub.org
- citruspi 10y ago
  I get > {"Severity":"Error","Message":"Hosted site www.orionhub.org is stopped","HttpCode":404,"BundleId":"org.eclipse.orion.server.core","Code":0} when I go to that page. This[0] one seems to work for me. [0]: https://orionhub.org/mixloginstatic/landing.html https://orionhub.org/mixloginstatic/landing.html
Hydraulix989 10y ago
There's a million UX annoyances with Google Cloud that still need fixed, and the very first thing they do is build an editor...
- timdorr 10y ago
  They say in the article it's just an implementation of Eclipse Orion: https://github.com/eclipse/orion.client https://github.com/eclipse/orion.client
- BrandonY 10y ago
  Do you have a particular example of what you find most annoying?
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    I already did in response to @singham's rather standoff-ish reply (inconsistent typing rules in the data store across APIs, oftentimes with no way to override). That is very much a "Big Company" problem though. At Google, you have one team doing the web UI, one team doing the data store backend, one team doing the Python API, one team doing the GoLang API. These teams may (and probably will) disagree about the best way to handle types, and they won't collaborate (due to politics and differences of opinions) about making sure they are consistent. Given that cross-team communication is often poor, there won't even be any "forcing function" to make sure that they are consistent, and so, by Murphy's Law, they won't be.
- firasd 10y ago
  I've only been using it for the last few months but the UI has struck me as more pleasant than Azure or AWS.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - drusepth 10y ago
    To be fair, I'm not sure how UI could be worse than AWS's... :P
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    The UI is but a small fraction of the UX.
- singham 10y ago
  If there are million, can you please list at least ten?
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    Given that this was many months ago since I switched to Digital Ocean, here are some of my grievances (my memory is fuzzy so I'll give you a little more than 10): - Switching accounts on anything Google is still a nightmare - The console doesn't preserve scroll position as new items come in - Asks every time to try the new beta console instead of remembering (which brings the page load count up to three separate pages, just to navigate to the console home page) - Very often gets stuck on the three dots loading screen forever - Upgrading to Google for Work Support took several hours of time after I paid to give me access to the support web page -- after I paid, it still said I needed to upgrade to access that page for several hours delay (meanwhile users could not access my site due to 502 errors, it was down, and I had to beg the _billing support_ to help redirect my support request to the regular support team, even though I already paid -- later on, Google admitted fault to both the delay and the downtime) - 5xx error codes do not show up in the Developer Console logs (which meant I could only tell that my users were getting these 502s from before was actually issuing test requests myself, there was no way for me to know even remotely how many of my individual users were impacted/affected) - Increasing daily budget/quotas is all over the place (billing page is buried), no warnings, they just pull the plug - Blocked in China - StackDriver monitoring requires (yet another) Google account auth - Logs are thrown out right away (not preserved over a long enough period) - No easy way to search and filter the logs/console - Too many dashboards - The menu items "Datastore" and "Storage" are poorly named and easily confused for two very separate concepts -- and then there is a "SQL" menu item that is separate from the "SQL" within the "Data store" - No input validation when editing individual "datastore" items - StackDriver completely replaced the old monitoring functionality (shudders) - URL fetching in Python using requests still doesn't work - If your credit card expires, there's a warning triangle icon in the dashboard UI, but going to the billing page does not show any errors And the biggest headache of all: - Per-row duck typing on data store when entering data into web UI (enter a 0 in one row and a 0.4 in the other, and then one is automatically inferred to have type int, the other type float, without the user having ANY say in the matter); but then per-column strict typing in the Python API -- if you try to grab the 0 as a float value, it crashes and throws an exception so ONE row in a column you intended to be floats can crash because it misses a decimal place (the rest are okay though, so in practice, you'll have one "special user" who always crashes, but then everyone else using your app is okay) Here's the kicker though: Entering a 0.0 in the web UI gets rounded and "coerced" to an int so you CAN'T even provide a float value in the web UI that was a whole number (no way to say, I really want this 4.0 to be a float -- they literally don't let you do this at all; instead, they round it and call it an int); and then, of course, Python API would crash because it's not a float, and you couldn't manually override/specify it (but you had to provide types to each column in Python land, forcing every row in a column to have the same type, even though the web UI doesn't care about types, let alone consistently enforcing the same rule that each row in a column must have the same type, ahhhh!!! and Python isn't even strongly typed so these are all artificial constraints in their very own ORM library!) Not sure if I'm at 10 yet, it's been six months or so since I used it, so my memory is fuzzy. Then, I could've easily listed 20 more. On the other hand, the web UI does load a lot faster now than it did six months ago, so good job with that! Before it would often take 30+ seconds to load on my San Mateo office's gigabit fiber.
- gkop 10y ago
  Have you tried Kubernetes as your primary interface to GCP? Google has put a lot of resources into Kubernetes.
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    No, I haven't, but that's a great idea, thanks!
cantbecool 10y ago
Isn't this like Heroku Garden? http://i.imgur.com/EOH6zY2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/EOH6zY2.jpg
cm3 10y ago
Not criticizing the project, genuinely curious: It's great that browsers can achieve more functionality previously exclusive to native applications, but anytime a code editor written in JavaScript to be run in a browser is announced, I wonder one thing: why don't we try to come up with a client/server protocol that would allow you to use your local editor, which is already fully customized to your needs? Is the idea that the files being edited are remote and therefore the only thing that would make sense is improving extensions like "It' All Text!" or wasavi? It ought to be enough if one can trigger opening a buffer in a local editor, which accesses a local webserver provided by your browser, backed by the textarea, and having a means of updating the textarea on save via a POST issued from, say, Emacs to Firefox's textarea-httpd.
- vbezhenar 10y ago
  I guess that most people want to launch a browser and start to work. Installing, launching another application is a burden and if you want to use it, why do you need a browser at all? Just do your work locally.
  - tkinom 10y ago
    It is much harder to monitor / monetize you when you just do work locally. You need to be part of the Matrix.
- TheAceOfHearts 10y ago
  I can't see myself using this regularly, but I can see the value for many people. I can definitely see some value in being able to try stuff out from the browser. Honestly, having to setup and configure your environment and tools is tedious. When you're unfamiliar with the ecosystem, it can take you pretty long to get everything up and running. I think this is more approachable for the average person.
  - falcolas 10y ago
    It's probably just me, but: "having to setup and configure your environment and tools is tedious" has never really been a problem for me. Between dotfiles, bookmark backups, and a few choice CLI commands, I can get a *nix/OSX development environment up in under an hour (including downloading and compiling non-standard tools).
jclulow 10y ago
> We’ve heard from a lot of Google Cloud Platform (GCP) users that they like to edit code and configuration files without leaving their browser. Who are these people? The _last_ thing I want is to depend on a browser for additional critical things that I do all the time.
- nl 10y ago
  Me.
- firasd 10y ago
  I kinda like that if I spin up a new Google Compute Engine I jump into a shell just by clicking a button in the browser v.s. struggling to configure SSH public keys and wondering why I got an error on login etc.
- moondev 10y ago
  It's pretty convienent to be able to access all of your tools and environment from any modern browser with internet in the world.
  - swiley 10y ago
    It's significantly more convenient to be able to access them from ssh anywhere in the world.
    - Klathmon 10y ago
      And yet on many platforms an additional program is required for SSH, the UX is terrible on mobile devices, and you'd better hope you have your keys with you. A browser is on literally everything by default, works on all platforms, and is more convenient for many.
      - falcolas 10y ago
        I'm having trouble imagining doing serious development work on a mobile device. Even basic bugfixes would be better done with a computer tethered to a phone if the lack of wifi is an issue.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kordless 10y ago
Error: Could not connect to Cloud Shell on port 8085. Ensure your server is listening on port 8085 and try again.
wiradikusuma 10y ago
"Code" but doesn't mention programming languages they support. I assume it's Java, PHP, Python and Go, since they are all officially supported (in Google App Engine). In case Google Cloud engineer is here: What about debugger support for other JVM languages?
- thesandlord 10y ago
  https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/features#tools https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/features#tools Cloud Shell is just a Debian VM with full root access. You can install anything you want (but note only the HOME directory is persistent)
VOYD 10y ago
Wasn't this the plot line the movie "Antitrust" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_(film) ? ;)

173 points by rafaelm 10y ago

nawtacawp 10y ago

Orion. https://www.orionhub.org https://www.orionhub.org

citruspi 10y ago
I get > {"Severity":"Error","Message":"Hosted site www.orionhub.org is stopped","HttpCode":404,"BundleId":"org.eclipse.orion.server.core","Code":0} when I go to that page. This[0] one seems to work for me. [0]: https://orionhub.org/mixloginstatic/landing.html https://orionhub.org/mixloginstatic/landing.html

Hydraulix989 10y ago

There's a million UX annoyances with Google Cloud that still need fixed, and the very first thing they do is build an editor...

timdorr 10y ago
They say in the article it's just an implementation of Eclipse Orion: https://github.com/eclipse/orion.client https://github.com/eclipse/orion.client
BrandonY 10y ago
Do you have a particular example of what you find most annoying?
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  I already did in response to @singham's rather standoff-ish reply (inconsistent typing rules in the data store across APIs, oftentimes with no way to override). That is very much a "Big Company" problem though. At Google, you have one team doing the web UI, one team doing the data store backend, one team doing the Python API, one team doing the GoLang API. These teams may (and probably will) disagree about the best way to handle types, and they won't collaborate (due to politics and differences of opinions) about making sure they are consistent. Given that cross-team communication is often poor, there won't even be any "forcing function" to make sure that they are consistent, and so, by Murphy's Law, they won't be.
firasd 10y ago
I've only been using it for the last few months but the UI has struck me as more pleasant than Azure or AWS.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- drusepth 10y ago
  To be fair, I'm not sure how UI could be worse than AWS's... :P
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  The UI is but a small fraction of the UX.
singham 10y ago
If there are million, can you please list at least ten?
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  Given that this was many months ago since I switched to Digital Ocean, here are some of my grievances (my memory is fuzzy so I'll give you a little more than 10): - Switching accounts on anything Google is still a nightmare - The console doesn't preserve scroll position as new items come in - Asks every time to try the new beta console instead of remembering (which brings the page load count up to three separate pages, just to navigate to the console home page) - Very often gets stuck on the three dots loading screen forever - Upgrading to Google for Work Support took several hours of time after I paid to give me access to the support web page -- after I paid, it still said I needed to upgrade to access that page for several hours delay (meanwhile users could not access my site due to 502 errors, it was down, and I had to beg the _billing support_ to help redirect my support request to the regular support team, even though I already paid -- later on, Google admitted fault to both the delay and the downtime) - 5xx error codes do not show up in the Developer Console logs (which meant I could only tell that my users were getting these 502s from before was actually issuing test requests myself, there was no way for me to know even remotely how many of my individual users were impacted/affected) - Increasing daily budget/quotas is all over the place (billing page is buried), no warnings, they just pull the plug - Blocked in China - StackDriver monitoring requires (yet another) Google account auth - Logs are thrown out right away (not preserved over a long enough period) - No easy way to search and filter the logs/console - Too many dashboards - The menu items "Datastore" and "Storage" are poorly named and easily confused for two very separate concepts -- and then there is a "SQL" menu item that is separate from the "SQL" within the "Data store" - No input validation when editing individual "datastore" items - StackDriver completely replaced the old monitoring functionality (shudders) - URL fetching in Python using requests still doesn't work - If your credit card expires, there's a warning triangle icon in the dashboard UI, but going to the billing page does not show any errors And the biggest headache of all: - Per-row duck typing on data store when entering data into web UI (enter a 0 in one row and a 0.4 in the other, and then one is automatically inferred to have type int, the other type float, without the user having ANY say in the matter); but then per-column strict typing in the Python API -- if you try to grab the 0 as a float value, it crashes and throws an exception so ONE row in a column you intended to be floats can crash because it misses a decimal place (the rest are okay though, so in practice, you'll have one "special user" who always crashes, but then everyone else using your app is okay) Here's the kicker though: Entering a 0.0 in the web UI gets rounded and "coerced" to an int so you CAN'T even provide a float value in the web UI that was a whole number (no way to say, I really want this 4.0 to be a float -- they literally don't let you do this at all; instead, they round it and call it an int); and then, of course, Python API would crash because it's not a float, and you couldn't manually override/specify it (but you had to provide types to each column in Python land, forcing every row in a column to have the same type, even though the web UI doesn't care about types, let alone consistently enforcing the same rule that each row in a column must have the same type, ahhhh!!! and Python isn't even strongly typed so these are all artificial constraints in their very own ORM library!) Not sure if I'm at 10 yet, it's been six months or so since I used it, so my memory is fuzzy. Then, I could've easily listed 20 more. On the other hand, the web UI does load a lot faster now than it did six months ago, so good job with that! Before it would often take 30+ seconds to load on my San Mateo office's gigabit fiber.
gkop 10y ago
Have you tried Kubernetes as your primary interface to GCP? Google has put a lot of resources into Kubernetes.
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  No, I haven't, but that's a great idea, thanks!

cantbecool 10y ago

Isn't this like Heroku Garden? http://i.imgur.com/EOH6zY2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/EOH6zY2.jpg

cm3 10y ago

Not criticizing the project, genuinely curious: It's great that browsers can achieve more functionality previously exclusive to native applications, but anytime a code editor written in JavaScript to be run in a browser is announced, I wonder one thing: why don't we try to come up with a client/server protocol that would allow you to use your local editor, which is already fully customized to your needs? Is the idea that the files being edited are remote and therefore the only thing that would make sense is improving extensions like "It' All Text!" or wasavi? It ought to be enough if one can trigger opening a buffer in a local editor, which accesses a local webserver provided by your browser, backed by the textarea, and having a means of updating the textarea on save via a POST issued from, say, Emacs to Firefox's textarea-httpd.

vbezhenar 10y ago
I guess that most people want to launch a browser and start to work. Installing, launching another application is a burden and if you want to use it, why do you need a browser at all? Just do your work locally.
- tkinom 10y ago
  It is much harder to monitor / monetize you when you just do work locally. You need to be part of the Matrix.
TheAceOfHearts 10y ago
I can't see myself using this regularly, but I can see the value for many people. I can definitely see some value in being able to try stuff out from the browser. Honestly, having to setup and configure your environment and tools is tedious. When you're unfamiliar with the ecosystem, it can take you pretty long to get everything up and running. I think this is more approachable for the average person.
- falcolas 10y ago
  It's probably just me, but: "having to setup and configure your environment and tools is tedious" has never really been a problem for me. Between dotfiles, bookmark backups, and a few choice CLI commands, I can get a *nix/OSX development environment up in under an hour (including downloading and compiling non-standard tools).

jclulow 10y ago

> We’ve heard from a lot of Google Cloud Platform (GCP) users that they like to edit code and configuration files without leaving their browser. Who are these people? The _last_ thing I want is to depend on a browser for additional critical things that I do all the time.

nl 10y ago
Me.
firasd 10y ago
I kinda like that if I spin up a new Google Compute Engine I jump into a shell just by clicking a button in the browser v.s. struggling to configure SSH public keys and wondering why I got an error on login etc.
moondev 10y ago
It's pretty convienent to be able to access all of your tools and environment from any modern browser with internet in the world.
- swiley 10y ago
  It's significantly more convenient to be able to access them from ssh anywhere in the world.
  - Klathmon 10y ago
    And yet on many platforms an additional program is required for SSH, the UX is terrible on mobile devices, and you'd better hope you have your keys with you. A browser is on literally everything by default, works on all platforms, and is more convenient for many.
    - falcolas 10y ago
      I'm having trouble imagining doing serious development work on a mobile device. Even basic bugfixes would be better done with a computer tethered to a phone if the lack of wifi is an issue.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

kordless 10y ago

Error: Could not connect to Cloud Shell on port 8085. Ensure your server is listening on port 8085 and try again.

wiradikusuma 10y ago

"Code" but doesn't mention programming languages they support. I assume it's Java, PHP, Python and Go, since they are all officially supported (in Google App Engine). In case Google Cloud engineer is here: What about debugger support for other JVM languages?

thesandlord 10y ago
https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/features#tools https://cloud.google.com/shell/docs/features#tools Cloud Shell is just a Debian VM with full root access. You can install anything you want (but note only the HOME directory is persistent)

VOYD 10y ago

Wasn't this the plot line the movie "Antitrust" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_(film) ? ;)