11 ms·
The real story here is the forced updates. How do people who are planning demos and presentations handle this? It's my worst nightmare.
by scandox 10y ago
The real story here is the forced updates. How do people who are planning demos and presentations handle this? It's my worst nightmare.
- wubbfindel 10y agoIf your using Windows 10 Professional or above, you can change the Local Group Policy to prompt you for both downloading and installing updates. For lower versions (like "Home"), there is a way to tell it that your connection is "Metered" and then updated won't be downloaded automatically; but that's not an official method to prevent updates.
- pritambaral 10y agoFor public information: Wired connections cannot be set as "metered". Only wireless ones.
- wubbfindel 10y agoI didn't realise that, thanks.
- verbify 10y agoAlso for public information: There are hacks that allow wired connections to be set as metered: http://www.windowscentral.com/how-set-ethernet-connection-metered-windows-10 http://www.windowscentral.com/how-set-ethernet-connection-me...
- croon 10y agoGroup policy editor. You can configure it to not update while anyone is logged in, only manual, at a set time, etc. It's just not in any of the "usual" settings menues. Likely rationalized by average users not disabling security updates by accident or something.
- geostyx 10y agoI love that group policy! It will still force a restart about every 9 days with that enabled, but it's much better than daily restarts.
- scandox 10y agoThis seems a tad depressing...ever heard the Malcolm X quote: "If you stick a knife nine inches into my back and pull it out three inches, that is not progress"? And yes I am completely aware that Windows 10 updates are in no way comparable to the civil rights movement and I am in no way making any such comparison. I am just quoting a witty man.
- Grishnakh 10y agoI find it ridiculous that you feel the need to issue a disclaimer about a comparison between Malcolm X and Windows 10. It's a perfectly valid comparison, though obviously using hyperbole, and it's pathetic that you can't use a hyperbolic comparison like this without some stupid hipster bitching about it these days.
- CWuestefeld 10y agoTwice I've been bit by the unexpected updates during shutdown during a power failure. At home my UPS is only good for 5 minutes, so I want to shut down as soon as the power goes down. I do that, and Windows starts on "Installing 17 updates", with absolutely no way for me to intervene. And powering down in the middle of OS updates has to be about the worst possible time for it.
- ygra 10y agoIt will simply roll back the half-finished updates and retry the next shutdown. Those things are done transactional. Powering down won't hurt it.
- Tharre 10y agoYou mean pulling the plug instead of shutting down normally? I suppose that'd work but usually you only realize that Windows wants to update _after_ you hit the shutdown button. And powering the machine down in this state will likely result in an unbootable machine. And good luck fixing that, especially if your hard-drive is encrypted.
- ygra 10y agoWindows updates fall into various categories in how they are deployed (this also causes variations in whether you need a restart or not). The overwhelming vast majority of updates nowadays are deployed in a rather safe mode where nothing on the system is changed during install until at the very end effectively a switch is made to the newly-deployed components. Those updates tend to not care very much, or at all, about sudden power loss. The next start notices there's an unfinished update and either finishes it, or rolls back and you can try again.
- Tharre 10y agoTrue, but that doesn't really help you, does it. There is no indication on the screen which kind of update is currently being deployed. So shutting down your machine is still a gamble, something you definitely don't want on a production machine. To use a car analogy: modern car's safety measures would probably protect me in case of an accident, but there is no way of being sure. So I'd rather avoid crashing into things at great cost.
- skrebbel 10y agoHibernate. I don't reboot more than once a month or so. It doesn't do on-bootup updates when you resume from hibernation.
- pasta 10y agoIn Task Scheduler, expand the Task Scheduler tree to go to Task Scheduler Library -> Microsoft -> Windows -> UpdateOrchestrator -> Disable Reboot task In the folder %Windows%\System32\Tasks\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator remove write permissions for all users from the reboot file. https://techjourney.net/permanently-disable-prevent-automatic-restart-of-windows-update-in-windows-10/ https://techjourney.net/permanently-disable-prevent-automati...
- jasonkostempski 10y agoDon't forget to do it again after any updates because MS will likely "fix" the obvious mistake you just made.
- pasta 10y agoCheck point 6 of the linked article.
- keyle 10y agoI'm glad I'm not the only one that was mad about that. My PC just shut off and started doing updates, in the middle of the day. My friend said "how much did you pay for Windows 10." I said "nothing, it's free update." then he said "There you go."
- luckroy 10y agoMost no-cost Linux-class OS/WM's don't shut themselves down for updates.
- kefka 10y agoI'm sure I could write a cronjob that would be naggy and demand to do what Windows does. And I could even use SELinux so even as root, couldn't kill it. That's what "System" is, right? /grrrr
- DanBC 10y agoXBox One is expensive, and has a ridiculous amount of updating.
- vetinari 10y ago> My friend said "how much did you pay for Windows 10." I said "nothing, it's free update." then he said "There you go." You paid for the original system that you updated from. If you are outside the 30-day window (which you are, because the free offer is over for more than 30 days), you cannot go back to the old system. So you didn't get the system for free, you exchanged it for the old one. Just the act of the exchange was free, which does not make the system free. Newly bought Windows 10 licenses are not free either.
- ivan_gammel 10y agoIn Win 10 Anniversary Update you can specify active hours, when you use the device and it shall not be rebooted. Also, there's a setting for custom restart time. http://betanews.com/2016/06/09/control-when-windows-10-installs-updates/ http://betanews.com/2016/06/09/control-when-windows-10-insta...
- falcolas 10y agoI found out the hard way that you may only specify up to 12 hours as active, in one period. So, if like me, you use the computer in the morning and again in the evening, you are SOL.
- ivan_gammel 10y agoYou can reschedule the reboot if it hits during your working hours beyond that period (second part of the article under the link shows the UI).
- gwbas1c 10y agoThe updates drove me away from Windows 10 years ago. I still have a windows machine for occasional games. What drives me nuts is "Install Updates and Shut Down" leads to a 15 minute boot time. WTF? I thought all that was supposed to finish before the computer turned off???
- coldpie 10y agoWhat games keep you on Windows? It is my job to solve that problem, we'd love to help you out.
- jaegerpicker 10y agoStar Wars: The Old Republic Witcher 3 Watch_dogs Overwatch Mirror's Edge (both games) Paragon There is a general selection of games I play but can only play on windows. In general I settle for the Mac graphics stack proforming on par with Windows.
- unethical_ban 10y agoOverwatch - Windows/Mac only.
- coldpie 10y agoWe're working on Overwatch, but DirectX 11 just isn't quite there yet :(
- kkarakk 10y agoreason why gaming on linux is never gonna take off - there is always some reason that the new hot game isn't gonna work. it's been a couple of months for overwatch, the initial hype is already gone - confirms my suspicion that if you have a linux gaming pc you essentially have a paperweight for playing older games that no one cares about
- coldpie 10y ago
- mattchew 10y agoThis is indeed the worst. By itself it is enough to make me want to switch. It's not the only thing, though. Win 10 is a decent OS in most ways, but there are too many places where it does things that I don't want and I can't (easily?) change. I use Windows because I do C# development for a living. For now, it's not practical for me to switch, but maybe it will be in a few years. I'm hoping so. Really stupid to drive developers off of your OS, Microsoft.
- Grishnakh 10y agoSince when do developers have much say in which OS they use? These things are decided by corporate policy and management in most places. The best you can hope for here is that you can do the bulk of your C# development on a "rogue" Linux machine or VM, and then do some final testing and bug-fixing on Windows, since it's going to be deployed on Windows with customers (internal or external) who use Windows.
- eikenberry 10y agoDevelopers get a say in which OS the same way they get a say about lots of things, by finding a job that fits their desires. For example I decided a while back that my computer had become to integrated in my life for me to consider using a company provided computer, so I don't, and I haven't had any problem finding good jobs.
- abiox 10y ago> Since when do developers have much say in which OS they use i predominantly work in java; and while windows is the "official" development environment (more by default than by decree) there weren't any objections or policies against using linux, as nothing in the workflow is tied to a single platform. (hooray!)
- GrumpyYoungMan 10y ago>The real story here is the forced updates. How do people who are planning demos and presentations handle this? It's my worst nightmare. Manually run the update check every 2-3 days and run it again two hours before the presentation. Any updates that come out in that two hour window will allow you at least one delay. Come on, folks, this isn't exactly rocket science here. Keep your OS up to date and, surprisingly enough, you won't have any problems caused by it being not up to date. EDIT: May I also remind everyone that your corporate IT security policy almost certainly requires you to keep the OS on your work PCs up to date?
- cesarb 10y ago> and run it again two hours before the presentation. Wouldn't two hours be too short to fix any problems caused by the update?
- roblabla 10y agoOS updates (or any update that potentially takes more than 2 minutes) shouldn't ever be forced. It's just terrible. Sure, there should be some prominant prompts saying "Plz update me" from time to time (so the average joe's computer isn't terribly out of date). But don't force me to update in the middle of prez. Because clearly, I'm best placed to know what's the best time for my computer to become an expensive paperweight.
- acdha 10y agoThe problem is that if you don't make them automatic, people won't install them. Microsoft spent most of the Windows XP era with people being bitten by problems which had been patched in many cases years before. The approach they've taken of making things mandatory is clearly not universally popular but most of the arguments about it tend to ignore the fact that it was designed to solve a very real problem which affected millions of people.
- roblabla 10y agoAnd yet macos doesn't have forced updates. They just prompt the user (with a very in-your-face message) and people DO update. Same with linux. Same with android. Same with IOS. If you prompt the user to update, they generally will.
- Dinius 10y agoSimply stop and disable the windows update service, and turn it on when you have time to actually install updates. Been doing it this way for more than a year now without problems. Of course you'll have to remember to turn it on to check for updates, but that's no different from using manual updates in past versions of Windows. The only downside is that certain things, i.e. Add/remove features might not work 100% while the service is disabled.
- swsieber 10y agoSet back the system clock. I watch movies on my laptop while I exercise. One day I was about to start exercising and Windows was like "Would you like to update now or in 10 minutes?" And I was like "I'm going to watch my movie," and set back my system clock, and surprisingly, it worked. (I find this experience funny because moving back the clock was a knee-jerk reaction and it actually worked)
- qb45 10y agoMSFT here. Thank you your report. I have escalated your issue to the Windows Update team. Microsoft is committed to your security and the loophole will promptly be closed by another forced update. Resistance is futile.
- eitland 10y agoKnow you are joking but still want to mention: A while ago I reported that the pw field in W10 gave away a lot of entropy easily (basically ctrl+arrow keys stopped between every character class so if your password was: newr..!VYIV you could in five seconds conclude that the password contains of 4 chars of something, then 3 chars of something else, then 4 characters of something other than the second group.) Whoever handled it concluded that it was absolutely "interesting" but not a security issue so no bounty for me :-/
- tmzt 10y agoHmm, combine that with a USB stick-like device and you could probably implement a brute-forcer that doesn't actually attempt most passwords, since key based editing of the original password would probably work. This of course assumes the entered password is still on the screen.
- eitland 10y agoDidn't think so far as a USB stick. That said, once you can leave a usb stick attached to targets computer I'd say all bets are off since at that point we can be reasonable secure that the target won't notice a USB or PS2 keyboard sniffer either, giving you plaintext passwords.
- bkmartin 10y agoThis can be turned off... You can use the group policy editor to set it up like windows 7. I just did this on my dev machine this weekend after being bit by it. Now I get notified of the updates available and can choose to install them at my whim. No more coming back to a rebooted machine and all my development windows, webservers, etc are no longer running. I have windows 10 pro, so I cannot speak to how this works in Home, but I would be surprised if a developer was using the Home version anyway.
- tsomctl 10y agoI just disable the Windows Update service. Every couple of months, when I feel the need to clean up all my open pdfs and Chrome tabs, I'll enable it and restart.
- flipchart 10y agoDoesn't work in Home edition (edit: the group policy editor is not available). Cheaper laptops (which are still fine for lighter web dev) come with Home edition so there are a few people (me at least) who do have to live with the forced updates
- AlexeyBrin 10y ago> Cheaper laptops (which are still fine for lighter web dev) come with Home edition so there are a few people (me at least) who do have to live with the forced updates Recently I bought a pretty expensive ASUS laptop, 2K and it comes with Home edition. At this point I can buy an upgrade license from MS for about $100 or buy a full retail Windows 10 license for > $200.
- sk5t 10y agoLaunch "Windows Update Settings" and review "Active Hours." The dialog claims, "When a restart is necessary to finish installing an update, we won't automatically restart your device during active hours." Note that the use of "we" (instead of "Windows") is a tad unusual, and maybe a little ominous, for Microsoft.
- teh_klev 10y agoAs mentioned in another comment, I have all these things configured and yet twice in that past seven days Windows 10 Pro has given me the 20 minute warning, right in the middle of my working hours. To add insult to injury for some reason the "Use a custom restart time" is now disabled. I'd love to have the annoying old windows update nag box with the postpone button back.
- cptskippy 10y agoYou're implying that the reboots occur at random without notification. They do not. Windows notifies you that updates were installed that require a reboot and that it will occur at off hours. If you ignore that notification then when the reboot is schedule to occur you receive another notification with the option to postpone the reboot for another amount of time. I've had these forced reboots happen a couple times and it's disruptive but that's about it. The most disruptive was when I was working on a project and stopped for dinner then never came back and left my desktop on overnight. The next day I discovered that my computer had rebooted and was at the login prompt. I can see how this would really suck for applications that do not respect the shutdown notification that Windows broadcasts but even the Arduino IDE dutifully saved my work. I suspect that over time app developers will pay more attention to OS level event notifications and we'll get to a point similar to Mobile or even MacOS where apps can be halted and resumed at will. Personally that sounds like heaven.
- teh_klev 10y ago> You're implying that the reboots occur at random without notification. They do not. Well actually......twice in the past seven days I had updates installed during my "work hours" and it still went ahead and did the 20 minute reboot warning thing during the same specified work hours in the same day.
- cptskippy 10y agoThat's curious. I just checked and all of my machines have the reboot during off hours option turned on. I don't recall turning it on explicitly but it's entirely possible that I did, I'm usually not that thorough though.
- khedoros1 10y ago> Personally that sounds like heaven. It sounds like heaven to have the capability. It sounds like hell to be forced to use it just because the computer's doing something you didn't ask it to.
- 10y ago
- Grazester 10y agoI was out in the field consoling into a cisco switch and I had my laptop restart(I had been cancelling it a while now and it got to the point where it just restarted) It took the better part of 10 minutes to apply updates. Thankfully it was nothing pressing I was going on the switch. I have disabled auto updates with a registry hack. Microsoft isn't serious about Windows and is now treating it like an OS used for petty un-important work
- Grazester 10y agoI was out in the field consoling into a cisco switch and I had a force update restart done(I had been cancelling it a while now it go to the point where it just restarted) It took me the better part of 10 minutes to apply updates. Thankfully it was nothing pressing I was going on the switch. I had to disable auto updates with a registry hack. Microsoft isn't serious about Windows and it treating it like an OS now used for petty non important things.
- gaurav-gupta 10y agoWindows 10 is designed to keep your computer safe. It'll let you know when you can use it! No time limits. Safety first.